Anyone here into Wine Making?

[KB]

Thanks Winemaker.

 

[Curmudgeon]

The nice thing about wine making is if it tastes bad you can always use it to make the "Other" stuff.

Very true! I had some cider once that wasn't the best. I did the magical incantations on it, and it turned into some really good AOS! (Apple Other Stuff)

 

[HadEnuff]

IMO, and Winemaker may have a different opinion, so I'd like to hear his, the most reliable way is to use your hydrometer. In fact, if you are going to get very serious about this, I'd suggest what's called a "+5-5" hydrometer, which expands the scale, in Brix, which makes it easier to read small changes as you approach and pass the "zero point". Because alcohol is less dense than water, your Hydrometer will read less than zero in Brix, and less than 1.000 on the other scale. To be honest, I can't remember what would be a reliable number on your scale. But definitely less than zero. You might try asking the folks who sold you your juice pail. Vendors are typically very helpful towards the winemaker/customer, especially the novice.
You might also ask them if you should be considering malolactic fermentation. If you don't know what that is, they will explain it. It is not done with kits, but if yours is not a kit, it would probably benefit from it.

 

[Curmudgeon]

This is my first batch so I am not sure. According to my initial SG of 1100 I am expecting a rating of 13% ish. That is why. Assuming I was accurate, that is what I am shooting for.

Yeah, don't worry about alcohol % at this point. It will be what it will be, based on your OG. Get a hydrometer if you don't already have one, and keep the fermentation going until the wine is done. For this wine I would expect something below 1.000 - maybe 0.990. If it doesn't get below 1.000, the fermentation is probably stuck, and you may want to take steps to get it going. (If you bottle it before it has completely fermented out, you run the risk of popping corks, and wine everywhere! DAMHIKT)

 

[HadEnuff]

Yeah, don't worry about alcohol % at this point. It will be what it will be, based on your OG. Get a hydrometer if you don't already have one, and keep the fermentation going until the wine is done. For this wine I would expect something below 1.000 - maybe 0.990. If it doesn't get below 1.000, the fermentation is probably stuck, and you may want to take steps to get it going. (If you bottle it before it has completely fermented out, you run the risk of popping corks, and wine everywhere! DAMHIKT)

as noted in a previous post, I think from Winemaker, the cork popping thing can be solved with K-Sorbate, but it won't solve the sweet taste of an incomplete fermentation.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I do have a Hydrometer.

 

[Winemaker]

I agree with HadEnuf; the hydrometer is your best tool. Learn how to read it. Like I mentioned in the last part of Post #22, you mentioned your OG was 1.100. If that is fermented to total dryness, 0.990, your alcohol will be about 13 %. I advise you not to stop fermentation as a newbie; it creates other issues and equipment that you don't have. Wineries are not permitted to add sugar to sweeten wines; we stop fermentation by the methods in Post#22, and add unfermented juice back in to sweeten. But necessary actions have to be done to prevent a referment in the bottle.

As a beginner, stick with the original thought process. Juice, yeast, control your temperature and let it ferment out. You most likely have montrachet or prisse mousse yeast, they're pretty reliable yeasts and will go to full fermentation. Are you using any yeast nutrient?

 

[HadEnuff]

Just out of curiosity, is the wine of a specific variety, or a blend? I have a brother in law who actually got me into the hobby, and all he has ever done is buy the juice an let whatever yeast live in it or his garage do the thing. No hydrometer, no yeast added, no K-meta, nothing.
His wine has always been enjoyable. It doesn't preserve well, but I've always enjoyed it.

 

[Sunset]

I believe I generally fermented the wine for 30 days minimum, as I like dry wine so wanted to be sure the yeast was fully exhausted.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Exnay on the vinegar. Bad wine can be distilled to make the host of "Other" stuff. If you make wine or beer on a regular basis, the last thing you want is vinegar. Vinegar is the result of bacteria, usually because of fruit flies, rotting fruit, unsanitary equipment, or airborne. If you have vinegar anywhere close, the bacteria can become airborne and is EXTREMELY hard to prevent infection.

It's funny, if you get a book on winemaking, it will agree with what you said about vinegar.
But I wanted to make vinegar once, and the book I got on THAT said just the opposite: "It's tough to get vinegar! Too much sulfite, or alcohol, or not enough O2, etc. etc. and you'll never be able to make it!"

I've made both wine and vinegar, and the truth is closer to the second view - I've NEVER had a wine turn to vinegar that I didn't want to (though, I've had plenty of other issues). On the other hand, you do kind of have to do everything right if you want to make vinegar.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

First Rack Day tomorrow, and a second SG Check.

 

[aja8888]

In younger days, my two brother-in-laws and I got heavy into wine making in Michigan where we lived. We probably made and bottled enough in 5 years to supply the northern midwest states. We even made some pretty good champagne also (that was fun!). Then I got a different job and moved away. BIL's continued to make wine but stopped years later.

It's a great hobby and provides some neat wine if you are careful. We even made some pretty good brandy!

 

[Winemaker]

It's funny, if you get a book on winemaking, it will agree with what you said about vinegar.
But I wanted to make vinegar once, and the book I got on THAT said just the opposite: "It's tough to get vinegar! Too much sulfite, or alcohol, or not enough O2, etc. etc. and you'll never be able to make it!"

I've made both wine and vinegar, and the truth is closer to the second view - I've NEVER had a wine turn to vinegar that I didn't want to (though, I've had plenty of other issues). On the other hand, you do kind of have to do everything right if you want to make vinegar.

I make too much wine to take a chance.

I have never made vinegar but accidently made a sour beer. Same issue, but beer is more sensitive because of the higher sugar and lower alcohol levels.
I know that fruit flies, yellow jackets are big carriers of the acetobacter bacteria and the bacteria is like sourdough bread yeast.....airborne.

I was told repeatedly to make sure any fallen fruit in my small orchard and vineyard is destroyed to prevent them boogers to making residence near my garage winery. So far so good.

The deer eat my pomace before a fruit fly even thinks about landing on it. It's the only time the overpopulated deer and I mutually get along.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

OK for you wine pros. I am getting a little worried. I racked my stash for the first time yesterday after 7 days of active fermenting/bubbling. Not much residue at the bottom but enough to warrant removal... I think. Put the airlock back on the new carboy and left it overnight. My plan is to leave it for another 30 days. However, the Airlock has not budged since I racked it. It has been over 12 hours. Is this normal? Or should I have left it till it stopped bubbling/fermenting to rack it the first time? Should I add some enzyme to give the yeast a kick?

Starting SG 1100, 7 day SG 1020 (~10.5%)

 

[HadEnuff]

how warm is it where you are doing this?

Too late now, but you shouldn't have racked it until you had measured SG and were dry, unless it was starting to smell like rotten eggs. You could stir it if you were worried about the sediment.

Since you racked it off of the sediment, did you put it into a smaller carboy? You don't want any headspace.
At this point I'd make sure there is no headspace, and make sure it's warm, and test the SG every day for a few days to see if there is any movement, before doing anything else. Enzyme won't kickstart your yeast if it's stuck, so that's a useless, maybe dangerous move at this point.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

how warm is it where you are doing this?

Too late now, but you shouldn't have racked it until you had measured SG and were dry, unless it was starting to smell like rotten eggs. You could stir it if you were worried about the sediment.

Since you racked it off of the sediment, did you put it into a smaller carboy? You don't want any headspace.
At this point I'd make sure there is no headspace, and make sure it's warm, and test the SG every day for a few days to see if there is any movement, before doing anything else. Enzyme won't kickstart your yeast if it's stuck, so that's a useless, maybe dangerous move at this point.

Temp is about 78*F. There is some headspace, but I cannot really do anything about that. It is starting to have bubbles on the surface but nothing out of the airlock.....

 

[HadEnuff]

Temp is about 78*F. There is some headspace, but I cannot really do anything about that. It is starting to have bubbles on the surface but nothing out of the airlock.....

Is the temp of the wine 78? If so you could try to warm it up to 85 and see if that helps. Don't obsess over the bubbles. Use your hydrometer to tell you if fermentation is ongoing, or not.

If fermentation is ongoing, albeit slowly, which is typical late in the process,you are still producing some CO2, so your headspace is not too dangerous now. However, as it slows down, the headspace will become more and more occupied with O2, which will lead to oxidation of the wine.

Assuming for now that fermentation is ongoing, what is your plan to store the wine after fermentation is complete, without a headspace. You can't have headspace in the carboy for very long without ruining the wine.

 

[Curmudgeon]

It's common to see a change in fermentation when racking - sometimes it slows down, sometimes it speeds up - and nothing to worry about yet. If it's at 1.020, then it still has a bit to go. Did you add any sulfite when racking? I'd continue to monitor it, and if you don't see ANY bubbling for a week or so, you might consider adding some fresh yeast. I'd recommend a Champagne variety at this point, as these can handle the alcohol and are good at finishing up a stuck ferment.

 

[Winemaker]

Did you use any yeast nutrient during this process?

I use a nutrient during the initial fermentation startup, then an additional amount after 1/3 sugar depletion.

I agree with Curmudgeon, there may be a change in fermentation after racking. If I have a 6 gallon wine to ferment, my primary fermentation is in a food grade bucket, then allow it to finish in a carboy. Way too early to panic.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Did you use any yeast nutrient during this process?

I did use an energizer, leaving be for a couple of days.

 

[Winemaker]

Do not add anymore nutrient at this point, as it will only provide nutrients for bad things.

I still think it'll be fine, paraphrasing... it won't be wine until it's time.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

It is still a little dormant. I am going to check the SG again in 4 or 5 days. I do have a little too much headspace I think, but nothing to fill it with and I do not have a smaller container. Should I make another smaller batch, ferment it to the same level and add it?

Any ideas....

 

[Curmudgeon]

To fill the headspace, just buy a bottle of wine of similar style, use it to top up the carboy, and then enjoy the rest. The small percentage of 'bought' wine won't significantly change the character of your wine. There are others who reduce airspace by adding things such as sanitized marbles, etc. but I've always just used wine.

 

[Winemaker]

I wouldn't fill the head space up if it were less than a pint. A lot of commercial wines have additives that may inhibit your fermentation. They're not harmful to you but to yeast; many dry wines do have some residual sugar; and they have to prevent it from fermenting.

 

[HadEnuff]

I wouldn't fill the head space up if it were less than a pint. A lot of commercial wines have additives that may inhibit your fermentation. They're not harmful to you but to yeast; many dry wines do have some residual sugar; and they have to prevent it from fermenting.

Just to be clear, are you saying you wouldn't top it up now, as we aren't sure fermentation is complete, or you wouldn't bother topping it up at all if it's less than a pint.
Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned if we knew fermentation was ongoing, for a few days while it finished up, but I wouldn't keep a 1 pint headspace for very long if I could avoid it.
Ways to get rid of headspace: if you know fermentation is done you can top up with commercial wine, as Curmudgeon suggested,,
If this was originally a 6 gallon batch, you can buy a 5 gallon carboy. If it was a 5 gallon batch you could buy a 3 gallon and 2 one gallons. I always keep a bunch of various size carboys, jugs, and bottles handy in order to avoid headspace.

Another method I have heard of, but never tried, is to buy a bunch glass marbles, sanitize them, and drop them into the carboy (after you've racked the wine into it so you don't chip the bottom of the glass).
Speaking of carboys, it's a very good idea to ALWAYS keep the carboy in some sort of protective crate, like a milk crate. Placing a full carboy on a bench with even small particles of stone, or masonry, can cause a crack and disaster.