Applying for Citizenship by Descent

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I did find a thread on retirement visas, but that's not so much my interest right now. I'm currently interested in dual citizenship, particularly in an EU country, more just to have for travel and possibly eventual relocation. Has anyone else gotten citizenship from a country they weren't born in and hadn't lived in? Did you do it yourself, or pay one of those services? I'd love to hear about it. I'm considering applying for Polish citizenship through my paternal grandfather (especially since it would mean EU citizenship), so any advice about that in particular would be very welcome.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

We did it for Malta, based on my Great Grandparents. Took a little time but got it for myself and DW.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

We did it for Malta, based on my Great Grandparents. Took a little time but got it for myself and DW.

Cool! I know it'll be different for every country, but was the time mostly just a quick application, then waiting, or did the process require a lot of back-and-forth? I have no idea what to expect, but I just emailed the Polish Embassy in DC. Heck, I could get down there on the Metro if I needed to! (I have no idea yet if that would help!)

 

[braumeister]

It appears to be straightforward, but a bit cumbersome due to the document translation needed.
https://www.gov.pl/web/mswia-en/apply-for-polish-citizenship

 

[jim584672]

Most of the time you are already a citizen by operation of law at birth and just have to apply for a passport. Some countries require a citizenship ceremony at their consulate or embassy.

 

[pb4uski]

My SIL is considering doing this. Her grandfather immigrated from Italy.

 

[braumeister]

I thought about doing it at one time, but all my grandparents were born here so it wouldn't be possible for the countries involved. They all have their own rules about citizenship by descent.

 

[Alan]

I did find a thread on retirement visas, but that's not so much my interest right now. I'm currently interested in dual citizenship, particularly in an EU country, more just to have for travel and possibly eventual relocation. Has anyone else gotten citizenship from a country they weren't born in and hadn't lived in? Did you do it yourself, or pay one of those services? I'd love to hear about it. I'm considering applying for Polish citizenship through my paternal grandfather (especially since it would mean EU citizenship), so any advice about that in particular would be very welcome.

I think you should be able to apply yourself in most if not all EU countries where you believe you have the right to citizenship.

My wife and I applied for and became Naturalized US citizens without the use of a lawyer or agency.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

It appears to be straightforward, but a bit cumbersome due to the document translation needed.
https://www.gov.pl/web/mswia-en/apply-for-polish-citizenship

Yes, that's why I'm considering a paid service. I'll need to obtain a copy of my grandfather's birth certificate in Poland, and his emigration records (if he had emigrated 2 years earlier I would qualify for citizenship!), my father's and my birth certificates, and my marriage certificate. And everything has to be notarized (or maybe certified by the consul). The embassy actually directed me to another section of that page, https://www.gov.pl/web/usa-en/confirming-polish-citizenship-or-its-loss.

And the application is in Polish, and has to be filled out in Polish.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

It was worth writing to the embassy, because the Consul did give me this tip:

Please keep on mind that since 1772 Poland was under partition and Polish republic was finally restore November 11, 1918. If your ancestors left Poland before this date they weren’t Polish citizens according to international law, they were recognized as Russian or Prussian or Austrian citizens.

My grandfather was born in 1910, and came to the US in 1920, so I do qualify, but it's interesting to note that it was a close call!

 

[aldo]

I attained Italian citizenship through my mother. I had to provide lots of documentation (some translated and apostilled) as required by the Italian consulate, which for my residence was in Chicago. After submitting my documentation, the consulate told me it typically takes 2 years to be approved; I waited 2.5 years. When I applied in 2015, wait times for appointments were reasonable. Now they're difficult to get and can be years down the road. If you're on FB, search for groups that help people seeking dual citizenship for various nationalities. When I joined the Italian dual-citizenship group, it had about 7000 members; now it's over 60,000.

 

[HarveyS]

I received my Irish citizenship in the early 1990's back when I was single. Both my mother and father were born in Ireland, but I only had my father's birth certificate so I used that. I did it by myself (no service involved). It was a bit of a back-and-forth. Documents had to be certified (not notarized). I don't recall exactly what the difference is. Photos had to be very exact size, shape and lighting. This took several tries. I needed my parent's marriage certificate from the local parish. That took a trip to NYC with dear Dad to get it.

In my experience, the document requests were straightforward, but the interpretation of the rules was difficult. That is, certified vs. notarized, photo issues, copy vs. original of documents.

It took a while, but I did eventually get citizenship. It was easier the next time around to get my wife and kid's done.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My friend and both her sons are applying for Italian citizenship based on her mother being born there. They hired an Italian law firm and it’s already over a year. They had to obtain the documents themselves and the firm handles all the paperwork and translations that are needed.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

My friend and both her sons are applying for Italian citizenship based on her mother being born there. They hired an Italian law firm and it’s already over a year. They had to obtain the documents themselves and the firm handles all the paperwork and translations that are needed.

If I have to pay that much (I would assume at least 4 digits, if not very low 5 digits, for a lawyer/law firm to do it), I'll almost definitely wait until I feel like I actually want to move. I will still start trying to gather the paperwork on my grandfather's birth and immigration that I will need, I suppose. I thought if I could get through the process in a year or two on my own, it would make traveling easier, and then if I wanted to move overseas to the EU it would be possible right away.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Cosmic, her son is paying and I have no clue as to the cost. He and his wife work from home so will move once they obtain it as will my friend. Too bad you don’t live in my city because my Dil is from Poland and could do all the translation that you need.

 

[gauss]

My cousin's son was working on this. He was getting tied up (Croatia) in that his great-grandfather, the immigrant did not have readily available birth certificate.

-gauss

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

My cousin's son was working on this. He was getting tied up (Croatia) in that his great-grandfather, the immigrant did not have readily available birth certificate.

-gauss

It looks like I may need my grandfather's birth certificate, which might only be available from Poland, so this might be much more difficult and expensive than I had hoped. The rest shouldn't be difficult, like immigration records for my grandfather and birth/marriage records for myself and my father.

 

[OldShooter]

I have a friend whose father was a citizen of Mauritius. He has moved his family and his tourist business from South Africa to Mauritius. I don't remember all the details, but Mauritius picked up a bunch of his moving costs, helped with logistics, and has promised free college tuition for his kids. I think the key was luring the business to relocate. Google tells me there is a range of options, including an investment option that looks fairly easy -- $375K, get permanent residency and wait 2 years for full citizenship. https://www.gostartbusiness.com/mauritius/how-to-get-mauritius-citizenship/

Mauritius is British Commonwealth, not EU, though. Without benefit of facts, I'll guess that Mauritius citizenship might be advantageous for residency in Britain. Only a short swim to the EU from there.

 

[bigreader]

I did this to become an Italian citizen. I did it myself with some help and followed the guidelines issued by the Italian consulate.

In order to qualify, I had to show that my Italian "blood" passed uninterrupted from my grandparents to me, which can be tricky if your grandparents or parents were naturalized. So my first piece of advice is to 100% confirm that you qualify for citizenship before you get too far.

The paper chase took years. I used a service that I found online to obtain copies of all of their birth certificates and marriage certificates from their respective cities. That was reasonably fast and cheap. Getting all the US documents (birth, marriage, death, grandfather's naturalization) was painful. At least for Italy, these need to be the kind of record for which the state is willing to issue an apostille, which is a hyped up certification. There was a lot of requesting state records, getting them, making sure they were the right kind and resubmitting them to some other state office to get the apostille and then having them translated by a translator certified by the Italian consulate. This could have gone faster if I was more diligent, but no matter what, there is a lot of waiting on clerks offices to open their mail and respond.

The application itself was pretty simple. I did this 10 or so years ago and the wait to get a passport was less than a year. Now it's much, much, much longer for Italy.

I had a lot of fun doing this and I think you can do it for yourself. The paper chase was long and slow but the out of pocket cost was modest. If you have the time and the interest, and aren't in a rush, I'd do it. Depending on your situation, your kids can also benefit by being able to work and live in the EU.

BR

 

[rodi]

All four of my husband's grandparents emigrated from Sicily. In 2009 I was extremely frustrated at work and decided to pursue his citizenship claim as a distraction from the garbage at work. It was totally DIY.

There were many documents to gather, since I wasn't sure which line to follow. So I got all 4 grandparents' birth and marriage certificates from Sicily. This was challenging because one grandmother had shaved 5 years off her age somewhere along the way so I was asking for the wrong years to look for it, and a grandfather was born in the neighboring commune (town) and was younger than family lore suggested. But I got all the sicilian docs just by mailing requests with some euros and return envelopes. (Only the one request took the 10Euro I sent, the others returned it with the documents.)

The long pull was the USCIS / NARA requests for naturalization. And compared to now, it was fast.

I quickly learned that my MIL's birth certificate was a cluster of spelling errors - her last name, her father's first and last name, her mother's first and maiden name. Oh - and somewhere between birth and marriage she had an undocumented name change (Maria to Mary). I had to eliminate that line. (both Maternal grandparents)

It took about 18 months to gather the documents, get them apostilled and translated. Then another 6 months waiting for the appointment. I went with my husband. My kids were minors so they were also part of the submission. It was approved and about 6 weeks later we got a letter stating so. This was late 2010.

I should have applied for the spousal citizenship back then. I wasn't ready to gather the criminal background checks in the four states I'd lived in. In 2018 the law changed requiring jure matrimonii applicants to pass a livello b1 per cittadinanza exam. So now, I'm studying Italian like crazy and planning to spend 2.5 months there this fall, culminating in taking the exam in Florence.

I'm also helping several nieces and nephews through the process. One has applied and been approved. One has applied and is awaiting approval. Another has his interview with the DC consulate next week. And, finally, 2 more are starting the process in Philadelphia. The first three used my research/scans of documents to cut some steps in the USCIS requests. (Had the c-file #). They hired a service to get the Italian documents - but knew the exact dates/commune. And gathered the other documents themselves. One of the newer applicants is doing a combo of do it yourself and hiring to get documents. He's getting the Italian docs with a service, but applying for all the domestic documents and stuff himself. He sends me 2-3 texts/emails a day because he's very excited about it. (His sister is riding his coattails.)

For Italians there are some interesting issues. The Philadelphia consulate decided to reject some applicants who's parents naturalized as US citizens while their children were minors. They are the only consulate doing this... Unfortunately, my nephew and niece will be applying there. The nephew is considering moving to Italy for 3-4 months to apply in person... it's faster and no 'minor issue'. But you can't work for those 3-4 months... so he'd have to save up.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Thanks rodi, bigreader, you've got me thinking I'll see what I can gather on my own and then consider applying myself. My MIL is big on ancestry research, so she did some research on my side back 3 or 4 generations, and she was able to get me a decent copy of my grandfather's Declaration of Intention for citizenship here, which includes where he was born, when he emigrated, and which ship he came on, which should help me track down some more info.

 

[savory]

Several years ago I executed my own application for Canada. I was lucky to have all the paperwork they requested and access to an online site of others applying so I could ask some questions. It cost me $400 to apply for my citizenship card. I have yet to apply for a passport. Last I looked it was at least $400 dollars if memory serves. My only other headache at that time was to find someone who could take a photo in the format required by Canada for my citizenship card.

Recently, given changes in Canadian immigration rules, my cousin qualified and applied. For less than $400, he was able to hire a service in Canada to execute all the paperwork and deliver his citizenship card. The photo issue has also been simplified as I think it is computerized so the format is a click away at a local passport photo place

Every country is different and connecting with others is helpful. Perhaps you can start a forum with others in this forum who have same country need /experience. But, if those are difficult to find or start, paying attention to other forums might be helpful for idea/approach generation. For example, I expect Canada is not unique in having businesses set up to guide the process and at a cost one might have to pay without the support.

Good luck navigating and qualifying for citizenship.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My friend and her kids are only eligible under the one parent that did not become a US citizen.

 

[brett]

We were, and I believe still are, entitled to UK citizenship becuase our parents and grandparents were born in the UK. We have the documentation.

In the late 70's we were granted what was then called Certificates of Patriality when traveled in the UK for months and expected to work. It was much faster and less expensive at that time than applying for citizenship. All the rights and priviledges, etc. except the right to vote.

Our son did exactly the same in 2012 base on his grandparents birthplace. He got off the plane, had a job within a week or so, got his National Insurance number,etc. He was entitled to all services. The only restriction was that he could not vote. He would have had to get his citizenship to do that.

We considered getting our UK citizenship at one point in order to get a EU passport. The talk of Brexit cooled our jets on that notion.

Both times it was a very straightforward and efficient process. Probably because we had the birth details and documentation.

 

[jim584672]

We were, and I believe still are, entitled to UK citizenship becuase our parents and grandparents were born in the UK. We have the documentation.

In the early 80's we both were granted what was then called Certificates of Patriality when traveled in the UK for months and expected to work. It was much faster that applying for citizenship.

Our son did exactly the same in 2012 base on his grandparents birthplace. He got off the plane, had a job within a week or so, got his National Insurance number. He entitled to all services. The only restriction was that he could not vote. He would have had to get his citizenship to do that.

We considered getting our UK citizenship at one point in order to get a EU passport. The talk of Brexit cooled our jets on that notion and we did not proceed.

If you have a British father (who is not British by descent) then you are a citizen at birth and just need to apply for the passport.

If you have a British mother (who is not British by descent) and you are born before 1983 then you would need a form UKM application, a citizenship ceremony and then apply for the passport.

Due to Patriarchy laws of the past the mother never could pass down citizenship. They corrected the law in 1983 to fix this.