Cost of living in cities across the world

[braumeister]

Interesting bit in the paper the other day about COL in cities.

I had long been under the impression that the most expensive cities in the US were SF and Boston, and the top one worldwide was London.

But this piece said London has lost its place and is now only #3 in the world, after NYC and Hong Kong.

I wonder if that may be related to the fall of the pound vs the dollar?

 

[photoguy]

One thing I do notice about the US vs Canada for example; is that Supermarkets here in the US look like Farmers market stalls compared to those in Canada. AND the food in Canada for the most part is WAY better quality, especially produce. Milk Eggs and Chicken are way more expensive, other than that costs are comparable.

Don't forget cheese! In toronto, I paid $15 for the same pack of costco cheese which costs me $7.XX in the US. Really painful when the dollars were at par, only moderately painful now.

Overall my impression is that food is somewhat more expensive in toronto, maybe 20-30% once you account for the exchange rate. But this is just my gut feeling and could easily be wrong. The only thing I noticed that was definitely cheaper in canada was lentils and various legumes. But these are inexpensive items.

In terms of quality, I haven't really noticed much of a difference. But the big thing that annoys me in Canada is that sometimes we have a terrible time find basic ingredients for recipes like ricotta cheese or israeli couscous.

 

[Nemo2]

a terrible time find basic ingredients

Recall being in Prague and searching, unsuccessfully, for white vinegar.

 

[sengsational]

I tried that site and wrote it off as it said that San Jose was cheaper to live in than Sacramento.

That's because San Jose's Chamber of Commerce got a group together to "correct the data" in Numbeo.

You might do better with your own research:

For food and clothing, it might be more accurate for US comparisons to go to walmart.com and create a pick-up order with groceries, cloths, etc for each city in question. Also more accurate because it's stuff you'll really be buying.

Then go to a specific house in a specific neighborhood that matches your current house using the GIS/Tax system in the alternative city and get the taxes on that example house (apartments are not where I'm at, and center city is not where I'm at).

Then go to gas buddy and get the price of gas in both places.

Go to the state's DOT to get the tax on cars.

I'm not sure how to get a distant home's average utilities...maybe a real-estate site. But you might have to call the current owner of the tax comparison house, lol!

For the restaurants, fitness clubs, etc, you could use numbeo.

 

[kcowan]

But as a LBYM person I also don't go to Safeway and buy everything there.

Hot tip get your veggies at Indian Cash and Carry stores, very fresh very cheap

In fact, only the specials are worth considering at Safeway (and perhaps store brands). And in our area, the cash and carry alternatives are Persian not Indian, but with the same bargains on vegetables and better variety too.

 

[kcowan]

You might do better with your own research:

For food and clothing, it might be more accurate for US comparisons to go to walmart.com and create a pick-up order with groceries, cloths, etc for each city in question. Also more accurate because it's stuff you'll really be buying...

When we were evaluating a move to Mexico in 2003 right after retiring, we had a buddy who had already relocated. We used Safeway flyers versus Soriana flyers to compare food, actual experience for wine and liquor and everything else.

It showed a 30% overall savings and at that time when exchange was 7.1 pesos/C$. Now that it is 14.5, savings are more like 50% 13 years later. Some extra inflation in imported goods, but then the imports are mostly from the far east.

We bought in 2007 when it made sense to own and live there 6 months. Savings have been real and the lifestyle is great. No longer "on vacation", we have developed deep relationships with other snowbirds, mostly from the US. The only surprise was that electricity from the national utility costs more in PV than Mazatlan.

 

[Alan]

Are you basing it on the Imperial gallon or the US gallon

I did notice you said when driving in Canada, so I would assume the same vehicle... but, looking around the internet gets me this...

The Environmental Protection Agency says E10 lowers mileage approximately 3 percent

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Not a huge loss, but enough to make a difference in cost over a year....


Now, something that I also found that I did not know.... the winter blend cost you money also....

In terms of gas mileage, you get better mileage on summer blends than winter blends because the summer blend gasoline has about 2% greater energy value than winter blend. So the gas you are using now most likely has a lower energy value than the gas you used in the winter.

​

I have never really paid attention to that... but, since we live way down south maybe we do not get the same blend as up north....

The US Gallon, I always translate liters to USG when posting on US forums (milk comes in 2l bottles, which is why I said 0.53 US gallons above).

We drove from Houston to Canada (Vancouver) where we spent 3 months in various locations and it was much bigger difference than 3% in mpg otherwise I wouldn't have noticed - the car (a Golf) shows the mpg in USG which resets every time I fill up. At first I thought it was the type of driving so was sure to pay attention on the way back, after a month in the Canadian Rockies we drove to Glacier NP, where we filled up again and then spent another 2 weeks driving in Glacier and then Yellowstone NP before heading back down to Texas.

 

[explanade]

Don't forget cheese! In toronto, I paid $15 for the same pack of costco cheese which costs me $7.XX in the US. Really painful when the dollars were at par, only moderately painful now.

Overall my impression is that food is somewhat more expensive in toronto, maybe 20-30% once you account for the exchange rate. But this is just my gut feeling and could easily be wrong. The only thing I noticed that was definitely cheaper in canada was lentils and various legumes. But these are inexpensive items.

In terms of quality, I haven't really noticed much of a difference. But the big thing that annoys me in Canada is that sometimes we have a terrible time find basic ingredients for recipes like ricotta cheese or israeli couscous.

Maybe it's more about a big expensive city than the country?

Maybe it's cheaper in smaller Canadian towns?

 

[kcowan]

Smaller towns can be cheaper for sure. But choices are also less. No neighbourhood Indian or Persian grocery stores. Salaries tend to be lower so it might make sense for retired folks. I find the big cities even more attractive because we can avoid traffic jambs yet enjoy the expanded choices.

 

[6miths]

When we were driving in Canada last year I noticed how much better the mpg was per tank of gas. I hadn't realized how badly the mandated ethanol in US gas affects the mpg.

I'm surprised that it makes a noticeable difference. I haven't appreciated it on drives from Toronto to Florida or when I happen to fill up when I am in the US. That said, I wouldn't be paying that close of attention and my tendency to be driving more slowly in the US probably more than compensates for any difference in energy content in the fuel. Canadian gas is 5% ethanol generally with premium fuel often being ethanol free.

 

[Koolau]

The US Gallon, I always translate liters to USG when posting on US forums (milk comes in 2l bottles, which is why I said 0.53 US gallons above).

We drove from Houston to Canada (Vancouver) where we spent 3 months in various locations and it was much bigger difference than 3% in mpg otherwise I wouldn't have noticed - the car (a Golf) shows the mpg in USG which resets every time I fill up. At first I thought it was the type of driving so was sure to pay attention on the way back, after a month in the Canadian Rockies we drove to Glacier NP, where we filled up again and then spent another 2 weeks driving in Glacier and then Yellowstone NP before heading back down to Texas.

Heh, heh, going even further afield from the original topic...

Based on this article: Alternative Fuels Data Center: Ethanol Fuel Basics

The "energy content" of ethanol is 30% lower than most gasoline. If a blend of 10% ethanol is used, that would suggest about 3% lower energy than pure gasoline. However, there may well be other factors which contribute to lower fuel mileage than just the energy content. I could only speculate on what those differences might be, but why not speculate?

1. The actual energy produced in a typical ICE "should" be proportional to the "energy" or "heat content" of the fuel. However, who is to say that the proportionality is the same for both fuels - especially in a mix. It all depends upon how the ICE "reacts" to the mixture. Reaction of the typical ICE to the introduction of ethanol is my pick for the biggest factor in why the "theoretical" 3% difference is not achieved by many folks (me included.)

2. What does 10% ethanol mean? I looked in several articles and could not find the answer. Does anyone here know if 10% is by weight or volume and whether the loss of volume by mixing the two liquids together is factored into the final mixture equation? There could be quite a difference in actual % of the two heat-content fuel mixtures if the method of determining % is not known. I think the answer to these questions are "knowable" but I could not find them so far.

3. Water content of ethanol used in 10% mixture: Typical ethanol contains at least some water (if it doesn't when it is produced, it most likely will by the time it gets to the consumer due to absorption from the air.) Typical production of ethanol starts with a 95% ethanol/5% water azeotrope. Removal of water by absorption or co-solvents with further distillation can reduce water content to as low as one is willing to pay for. My gut tells me, most producers are not too concerned about a 1 or 2 % water content getting to the "mixer's" door step. I could be wrong. I was once.

4. Denaturant of the ethanol. Apparently (according to the article) a denaturant must be used in the alcohol destined for ethanol/gasoline blends. The denaturant is not specified, but could well have a very low heat content value OR might otherwise contribute to the ICE not turning the full heat content into usable heat in the ICE - see 1. above.

I know this is all WAY more than most want to know about the subject (and obviously) I am no expert. But the fact that mixing 10% ethanol into gasoline does not typically lead to the loss of ONLY 3% mileage does not surprise me. YMMV

Returning you now to the regularly scheduled topic

 

[Sunset]

Recall being in Prague and searching, unsuccessfully, for white vinegar.

You can easily get white vinegar for french fries in Canada, as it's common to have salt & vinegar on your french fries. Often there are packets of white vinegar like packets of ketchup at the burger joints.

In the US, my experience has been if you ask for vinegar they bring malt vinegar, and one time at a restaurant they brought a cup (yes a real cup) of vinegar for me

 

[Sunset]

Agreed, but a small price to pay for decent Non-Profit health care (That is Really Affordable, NOT in name only) don't you think?

Yes, it is a good system.