Feeling some Guilt and Regret over College

[fidler4]

From the WSJ:

For all the thought that families put into choosing a college, very often the decision is dominated by a simple line of reasoning: The more prestigious the school you attend, the higher your salary will be after you graduate.

So, they focus their efforts on getting their children into the best possible college they can afford, figuring that even if they’re paying more tuition now, they’re maximizing earnings down the road.

But that formula doesn’t always hold true. And following it blindly can leave graduates burdened with much more debt than necessary when they get out of school.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-elit...salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674


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[travelover]

Agreed... never a total waste but sometimes pretty close... loads of examples of people with degrees in art, drama, literature, etc. who have been unable to find jobs and careers that made their education worthwhile........ .

I totally agree. The unfortunate fact is that our brains are not fully mature at 17 or 18 years old and even if they were, most of us had way too little life experience and context to choose a lifetime career. It has to be hard to disappoint a child by telling them you have a budget and that you may not be able to fund their dreams, but kids have to face reality eventually, so maybe now is a better time to begin the discussion.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think if you are an ROI kind of person, looking at the Job Outlook Handbook and Payscale reports by college and by major, it becomes pretty clear what the good value schools are and what majors have good ROI on time and money. Like other posters, we also know of many instances where the parents paid a lot of money they couldn't easily afford or the kids or parents took out huge loans for unemployable majors, very low income majors, the kids flunked or dropped out, etc.

If a child wants to be a starving artist, $200K can buy a nice house in many parts of the country. And with a mortgage free house in a low cost of living area plus maybe a few rent paying roommates, they wouldn't need much other income to get by and could be an artist for a living.

 

[Sunny]

I know my viewpoint on others paying for most of college is skewed by my own experience. I had four siblings, none of them went to college. Neither of my parents or their parents went to college, I was the first (and only until my kids) in our family. I worked during the summers, lived off savings and used student loans. Unfortunately, my parents took out loans for my college that they spent on themselves. Attempting to pay these loans back hurt them financially. They even passed away still owing money. I assume all this colors my opinion, and I wanted to be forthright as much as possible, but here it goes:

Parents should not bankrupt themselves, work longer and harder, or unduly sacrifice to send their kids to college. If parents can easily afford it, they still shouldn't pay for all college costs.

I know I get strange looks when I express this viewpoint. And I know the people I have helped do financial planning have thought my opinion harsh. I can emphasize with the guilt nagging you to pay more. But don't agonize over it.

Humans generally appreciate stuff more when they themselves work for it or create it. The flip side of this is we don't tend to value the stuff handed to us. I attended a costly, small college instead of a state university. Some of my peers were trust fund kids in the bad sense of the phrase, many others didn't have to pay much for their education. I dare say many didn't get as much out of college, or learn as many of life's lessons, during this time period.

While in the moment they may appear better off to not have to worry about finances, this delays adulthood. Taking on responsibility and ownership of their future during early adulthood is critical. This begins the transformation to becoming responsible, well functioning members of our society.

By all means help in any way you can during college years. Even ease the financial burden somewhat, but even if you could pay for college entirely, don't.

Don't help them now by hindering them in the long run.

 

[socca]

If parents can easily afford it, they still shouldn't pay for all college costs.

Not having to worry about money definitely made my 4-year undergrad engineering experience more enjoyable, and probably helped my academic performance. In grad school, I was a TA, which reduced tuition costs substantially. This was back in the early '80s when tuition was more reasonable. It's shocking to take a peek at the current out-of-state tuition at my old flyover-state undergrad school.

 

[Sunny]

Not having to worry about money definitely made my 4-year undergrad engineering experience more enjoyable, and probably helped my academic performance.

For some it may work out fine to have their college paid for by others, and maybe even help academically. For others, the ownership of their own college education can lead to better academics as well (as they try harder with skin in the game). I suppose no one shoe fits all, and there are always exceptions.

Generally though, delaying the responsibility of financial contribution and time management until an adult-child graduates from college (and is thrown to the workforce wolves) seems like a bad way to go (for many).

 

[Bestwifeever]

I know I have said this before in college threads and others, but all families are different and there really is no right or wrong about whether or how much parents contribute to their children's "extra" expenses before or after high school, whether it's a car, college, wedding, down payment. You get to choose for your own family, not for other people.

However, it is probably helpful for parents to tell their children early on what if any contribution they are planning to make for these extras so the children can adapt their own schoolwork and expectations and winnow down their own prospects. The OP's children will likely flourish regardless of his contribution to their education--children are resilient.

 

[Koolau]

Parents should not bankrupt themselves, work longer and harder, or unduly sacrifice to send their kids to college. If parents can easily afford it, they still shouldn't pay for all college costs.

I agree. We told our kids to work hard for scholarships, then grants, then loans. We promised that AFTER they graduated and IF we were financially able, we would try to help them with their loans. It worked pretty well. The kids got scholarships, grants, and loans. As promised, we have been helping them pay off their loans. Strangely enough, the kids all lived pretty frugally and kept their student loans to a manageable level. All three now have their own homes (with mortgages, of course) and are working on becoming debt free. I'm sure had we agreed to foot the whole bill, it would have cost us a lot more and I'm not at all certain they would have appreciated their education (and our help) as much as our current arrangement. More than ever, though, YMMV.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I went to a smaller less expensive university with a big scholarship- my first choice didn't offer any scholarship at all. My friend got nearly the same offer I did- only she went to big expensive state U and got a degree in interior design. She didn't realize she was going to have to live in a city to really use her degree. She worked in a nearby city for miserable pay and she hated the job. She hated commuting and took a much lower job in our home town. She currently works at a position that doesn't require a degree at all, and doesn't pay much. She'd probably stay at home with her kids but can't because of her student loans.

A previous poster was right in saying that the human brain is not fully developed at 18 and not capable of making one of the largest financial decisions of his/her life without significant guidance.

 

[Shanky]

We had a simular situation and I felt some guilt. 3 Kids, one Ivy, one Cal Tech and one at a "Public Ivy", Our contribution was equivalent to State School Tuition, Room & Board, so all three took on Student loan debt. They did get some merit based scholarships, they were very minimal $$ in the scheme of things. At this point our kids our from their mid-twenties to mid 30's. The oldest is a tenure track professor at a major university, the 2nd is finishing up his Phd and has had plenty of financial support / fellowships from his schools. The youngest is still finding herself. Bottom line, the student loans although significant, were not too big of a price to pay. At this point they do not appear to be a burden to the older kids and the younger has the least debt, since she went to a public University. All my kids feel they earned their educations. Had we paid for all of it, I am not sure the outcome would have been better for them.

 

[Winemaker]

I definitely consider myself a feminist but I agree that the daughter's life goals should be a consideration in the choice of college. Let's look at it another way: if she wants to have the option of being a full-time mother, will an expensive education lock her into loans that make that impossible for her unless she marries someone with megabucks? My DS was adamant about marrying someone who shared his intention of having the wife stay home FT with children. My biggest fear was that he'd find Ms. Right and she'd have $80K in student loans. Instead, DDIL had gotten a 2-year business college degree and worked maintaining inventory a a car dealership till our granddaughter was born. Apparently she had some student loans but they were manageable. Contrast that with a coworker at a previous job whose wife had an MD degree, big student loans, and had decided she wanted to stay home with the kids.

Unless you have an infinite supply of money, comparing the cost of the education vs. potential income is important, both for males and females.

I had a co-worker who put his valedictorian daughter though college, med. school, and in her 2nd year of residency decided that it was too much pressure being a brain surgeon.

Last I heard she was going to mortician school.

 

[jabbahop]

Here is the problem I have with the "I worked myself through college and so should they" argument. Cost of attendance has gone up far more than minimum wage most unskilled kids can get these days.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gregschoof...er-job-pay-for?utm_term=.wb9WQmO0x#.ekME0QPg6

One chart shows when I graduated in late 70's I could earn enough during summer to pay for tuition (not living costs) at three big public universities. Today one could earn less than 30% of that cost.

I have told my kids that I expect them to work to contribute to college expenses but I don't see how working can make up the gap if parents don't contribute substantially or build substantial debt.

 

[exnavynuke]

Here is the problem I have with the "I worked myself through college and so should they" argument. Cost of attendance has gone up far more than minimum wage most unskilled kids can get these days.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gregschoof...er-job-pay-for?utm_term=.wb9WQmO0x#.ekME0QPg6

One chart shows when I graduated in late 70's I could earn enough during summer to pay for tuition (not living costs) at three big public universities. Today one could earn less than 30% of that cost.

I have told my kids that I expect them to work to contribute to college expenses but I don't see how working can make up the gap if parents don't contribute substantially or build substantial debt.

In 1970 you didn't have the abundant scholarships etc available today. A friend's kid started college this year. After state scholarship contribution (HOPE scholarship), her out of pocket cost of tuition is $333 per semester when taking 15 credit hours. At minimum wage, that would take 46 hours of work to pay for, or 92 hours of minimum wage work to cover all tuition for the year. At 20 hours per week in the summer, she'd need to work 5 weeks to cover a year's tuition.

Yes, the cost has gone up, but the equation has largely changed from one of "cost=payment" to "cost = payment + scholarships + grants + loans" and scholarships and grants are a lot easier to come by today.

 

[RE2Boys]

My deal with my boys is that I will pay tuition, books, and traditional dorm room & board costs for four years of college at a state school. They can receive the education without loans.

If they wish to upgrade and live in suite style dorms, and all their spending/entertainment funds are their responsibility.

I will finance their education as long as they make satisfactory progress. I will not fund their "lifestyle" decisions beyond the basics.

 

[Amethyst]

Surprised no one has mentioned the option of living at home and commuting to a nearby college. Granted, there needs to be a college within reasonable commuting distance, but that's not a problem in areas with higher populations.

It is the main reason I graduated with no debt. Also, the food was better (I tested this assumption by eating a couple times from the college chow line). And in case anybody is wondering if living at home cramped my style, no doubt it did to the degree that was good for me ;^> I managed to have a part-time job, a social life on campus and plenty of dates.

Amethyst

 

[Tekward]

I'm aligned with most on college funding and it worked well. Three DD, each was told I have $25K for their BS. If it took more money we would have to work it together. If it took less it was their money after the BS.

Two went to military academies and spent their college money on cars and travel. The third said she didn't want to waste the money when she wasn't sure of her direction so she enlisted at 17. She's taking night classes and will receive half the fund for an AS.

The big take-away is that they spent money differently when it was seen as theirs. BTW, I told them they don't have to go to college and then the money is mine for a sports car.

But on the original topic of guilt, I have stayed semi-employed to build a cushion if they need help.

 

[poorcarver]

There is a bit of a trick that worked for us. Our DD was a solid 2nd decile student with solid test scores and the usual HS type resume of activities and all that. She knew the general areas of interest. So she (and I) reduced the 3000 colleges by quality of program in her interests, then ranked by quality of student. Each school publishes the test scores and GPA of their most recent class intake. She then picked those schools with good reputations whose student body was slightly on average below her standing. And also picked schools that were clearly trying to break out of regional status to a national status so would offer more scholarship to a student from out of region. Worked a treat. Her graduate education was handled by grants based on undergrad experience and quality.

Our DS was in the first decile, nearly perfect test scores and a very much more significant resume. He was applying at Ivy and equivalent, but also was applying to ROTC scholarships as well. He went to a top of the tree program, was cash positive upon graduation, spent four years and is at a well known institution in Cambridge, MA doing grad work, on someone else's nickle.

My point, which is perhaps lost, is that you match the student to the program. It is not about what do you want, it is about what is the best deal you can get at least cost to the family.

 

[RetireAge50]

I was more than happy to pay for college as it was a good time swap. They would have to work 5 times more hours than me to earn the same amount.

In other words for our family the combined total amount of our life we have to work is less. Maybe they will pay the college of their kids so in the end everyone pays for college using their higher salaries.

So far the costs have been reasonable as the first child lived at home (by her choice) while attending a state school. The second did some community college and is now attending a private school that fit him better.

 

[user5027]

This thread reminded me of...

 

[Sunset]

...... If parents can easily afford it, they still shouldn't pay for all college costs.
......

Yep, probably would have prevented my cousin from partying at College, as he never appreciated the free ride he had where he failed to graduate

Or at least his parents would have wasted less money.

 

[Cobra9777]

My deal with my boys is that I will pay tuition, books, and traditional dorm room & board costs for four years of college at a state school. They can receive the education without loans.

If they wish to upgrade and live in suite style dorms, and all their spending/entertainment funds are their responsibility.

I will finance their education as long as they make satisfactory progress. I will not fund their "lifestyle" decisions beyond the basics.

Ditto. We researched the average in-state cost of tuition, fees, room & board for 4 years. That was their budget. Any and all expenses beyond that were their responsibility. We didn't dictate what school, what major, etc. But there were some requirements related to GPA and other things.

They both chose good in-state schools that fit within the budget and they both worked full-time during summers to have spending money throughout the year. They picked majors that led to internships and multiple job offers.

We never saved money for their college, but I worked until the youngest was about half-way through. We were in our peak earning years and were able to pay out of regular cash flow. We only had one year of overlap which helped.

 

[Sunset]

Surprised no one has mentioned the option of living at home and commuting to a nearby college. Granted, there needs to be a college within reasonable commuting distance, but that's not a problem in areas with higher populations.

It is the main reason I graduated with no debt. Also, the food was better (I tested this assumption by eating a couple times from the college chow line). And in case anybody is wondering if living at home cramped my style, no doubt it did to the degree that was good for me ;^> I managed to have a part-time job, a social life on campus and plenty of dates.

Amethyst

Ditto.
My parents fed me and kept the roof over my head.
I worked a part-time job and paid my own way though a local College.
Knowing I would pay made me careful of my choices, even checked into the Military option but didn't do it.

 

[RE2Boys]

My younger son and I visited a state school this summer and found that they had built a lot of "suite" style dorm buildings. The room fees were twice that of the traditional style (but older) dorms (the ones with the rest room and showers down the hall, roommate, community lounge, no cooking facilities in room, though many have MW and small fridge). I was shocked at the price difference that was basically a lifestyle issue.

While I retired at 50 when they were one and three years old, I've got half the money saved in a 529 plan, the other half is represented by an inheritance of Series EE Savings Bonds where the interest can be tax-exempt if used for qualifying educational expenses. That's my plan.

 

[Walt34]

And in case anybody is wondering if living at home cramped my style, no doubt it did to the degree that was good for me ;^> I managed to have a part-time job, a social life on campus and plenty of dates.

This reminds me of talking to a woman at work, by then in her mid 30's who said of her arrival at college "I was every parent's worst nightmare. In the first week I started smoking, got drunk, and got laid".

 

[freedomatlast]

For us, no matter what college the kids chose, it was going to cost 30 to 35K/yr each. We looked at state schools, all the way up to the prestigious colleges. The state schools were in the 30K/yr range with almost no scholarships available unless you could claim some type of minority status, and the prestigious schools were 60K+ but with their scholarships, it would bring the cost down to about 35K. Other child went the community college route for the first two years which saved big bucks. We funded this totally out of cash flow while working and I am thankful those days are behind us. The plan for us was to keep working at least until college costs were paid.