FI on the down low???

[Cattusbabe]

When you ER what do you tell those who ask why you are not working any longer? DH is already at retirement age (63) but I'm only 50. I really do not want most folks to know that we are FI. Dh and I are fairly private and live a low key life style. We would like to keep it that way.

 

[haha]

When you ER what do you tell those who ask why you are not working any longer? DH is already at retirement age (63) but I'm only 50. I really do not want most folks to know that we are FI.  Dh and  I are fairly private and live a low key life style. We would like to keep it that way.

Tell them your husband is such a stud that he needs you for nooners.

Ha

 

[goodguy1_64]

I (42) and my DW (41) RE'd last September. My wife has been a stay-at-home-mom since our son was born ( 12 years ago) and she never gets asked when she's going back to work. I on the other hand get asked at least a couple of times per week.

I personally tell them that I'm doing some consulting work for various companies that are in the business that I worked in.

goodguy

 

[newyorklady]

I think that it is a really BAD idea to tell anyone that you are financially independent. I learned that the hard way. So LIE and say anything you can think of, work at home, do consulting work free lance as was suggested in previous post, or internet ****, export import, whatever. People get jealous and greedy. Telling people you are financially independent leads to much trouble so good for you for realizing this beforehand. I am much younger than you and unfortunately was naive and told friends and in-laws about my good fortune. I was shocked at how many people think that because you have money that they have a right to some of it. Of course this really just shows what kind of people they are, good for nothing mooches, but it is one headache I could have easily avoided by keeping my big trap shut.

 

[MJ]

I have the same dilemna. If I am pressed by non strangers, I will probably tell people that I live on a small pension (no pension yet and it is very small) and do some occasional IT consulting to supplement it.

 

[Nords]

I think that it is a really BAD idea to tell anyone that you are financially independent.   I learned that the hard way.  So LIE and say anything you can think of, work at home, do consulting work free lance as was suggested in previous post, or internet ****, export import, whatever.  People get jealous and greedy.  Telling people you are financially independent leads to much trouble so good for you for realizing this beforehand.  I am much younger than you and unfortunately was naive and told friends and in-laws about my good fortune.  I was shocked at how many people think that because you have money that they have a right to some of it.  Of course this really just shows what kind of people they are, good for nothing mooches, but it is one headache I could have easily avoided by keeping my big trap shut. 

Sounds like you need a new batch of friends.  I bet you wish you could replace some of the relatives too.

This question pops up every few months:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=429.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=955.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=2168.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=3748.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=4241.0

When I'm asked that question by people who I run into people on the beach at 9:30 AM on a weekday, or mention at tae kwon do what I did all day, or even when I make an appointment with someone to look at their Craigslist stuff-- I just say that I'm retired.  Navy.  Submarines.  I've never felt like a target or felt like I'm going to be hit up with a request for money, but maybe that's because of the way I look after a couple years' martial arts training.  Or surfing.  Or growing a ponytail.

As a general rule I've found it's less complicated to tell the truth.  It's certainly easier (in the long run) than lying.  Usually the simple factual statement that "I'm retired" is enough-- they decide it has nothing to do with them and they move on.  They look at my hair, my smile, my manner of dress, and slot me into "beach bum".  They probably think that I'm lying just to cover up for a drinking problem, that I got fired, or that I can't handle the pressure and I'm out on disability.  I'm no threat to their existence.

If I get the "How can you afford it?!?"  I explain that we're living off a military pension and burning savings until my wife's pension kicks in.  Most people interpret that as "unemployable" or "lazy".  Shipmates want to know how we're doing it so I loan them a copy of Bob's book, of which I now have three copies out "on loan".

"You're too young to be put out to pasture!!" is answered by admitting that you didn't know there was an age limit.  That youth is wasted on the young and retirement is wasted on the old.  That if they were paid $2900/month to stop going to work, would they show up next Monday?  Suddenly the subject gets changed. 

"But waddya DO all day?!?" is met with explanations that we're raising a teenager, surfing, enjoying life, improving our home, working out, and managing our finances.  Reading a lot.  Living.  Traveling a little.  Thinking about what we'd like to do next.  Again they veer off to another topic because they just can't see how this one pertains to their lives.

"How did you do it?" starts a discussion about LBYM, saving 10-15%, and using low-cost index funds.  By the time I get to "Four Pillars" their eyeballs are glazing over, they decide it couldn't possibly have anything to do with them, and I must really be unemployable.

Most of the conversations go like this one.

Never had any problems with family.  My father and my FIL are my ER inspirations.  My BIL says he & spouse are partying too hard to ER just yet, but in five more years... and I think this time he really means it.  Other relatives haven't asked the questions so I don't bother them with the subject. 

I never get any solicitations for cash, loans, or volunteer time.  If I did I'd say that we already have a charity & volunteering plan that takes all our spare cash & time.  I'm always happy to help out a friend or a neighbor but they've never abused it.

Every once in a while, maybe one in a hundred, I get the "Really?  Tell me how I can do that!" response.  In this case they usually listen to the words, nod their heads, and do absolutely nothing about it.  The following year they'll say "Really?  Tell me how I can do that!" and the cycle starts all over again.  I've learned to tolerate these people.

Once every thousand times or so I'll hear "Gee, that sounds great.  How'd you do it?"  And that's how you discover your new friends...

 

[shorttimer]

Nords, I love the conversation you linked to. I can see it happening.

When we paid off our house I told my sister. She said she knew no-one that did not have a mortgage. When I told her we save up for cars etc. so we don't have to pay any interest she told me I was crazy and nobody does that.

We just reached FI but don't tell anyone. I will quietly exit from my job soon and tell people I am going to work on marketing some of my hobby work.

I do fear my siblings, who never have two nickels to rub together will ask for financial assistance if they knew the truth. My SIL often says when we are at family gatherings statements like "you are going to pay for my kids college, aren't you?" not only to us but you my in-laws living on a fixed income. I think she thought they would have died by now and their house would be sold for that purpose.

 

[Outtahere]

I do fear my siblings, who never have two nickels to rub together will ask for financial assistance if they knew the truth. My SIL often says when we are at family gatherings statements like "you are going to pay for my kids college, aren't you?" not only to us but you my in-laws living on a fixed income.

Wow are you sure we're not related? That sounds just like some thing my sister would or has said. It really baffles me that she feels entited to something that I've worked for while she's skated through life. I don't intend on letting anyone know what I have, period!

 

[youbet]

Interesting thread.

My situation is mostly hypothetical since, in my late fifties and just beginning ER, not needing to work is not as unusual as it is for you folks who have been able to pull ER off in your forties.  Still, there are people who do try to probe in an effort to get me to spill my net worth.

My opinion is that the truth works best, although I omit any numbers or details.  For example, if you're retired because you have a working spouse and a personal pension, just say "with a little budgeting, we're able to get by on spouse's salary and my pension."  If you're retired on generous pensions and possibly SS, just say "we're fortunate our pensions allow us to now enjoy retirement."  The toughest one is if you're RE based solely on FI.  Not much you can say but "a lifetime of frugal living plus a careful investment plan has allowed us to throw in the towel early."  Of course, if you're FI because you won a lottery or inherited a bundle from Aunt Sally, you're still going to take some crap motivated by jealously, and so be it. A small price to pay.

In our case, friends and relatives are well aware, by observation, we lived a life of hard work and modest lifestyle.  Most are relieved I'm retiring from the grind before I drop in my tracks after burning the work candle at both ends for decades.  No detectable jealousy, just some ocassional curiosity.

There are good reasons why talking about money is generally taboo socially.  Therefore, unless it is with a friend or relative I know well and have slowly over time come to know shares my view on lifestyle, spending, investments, etc., I just don't talk about it   Ever.

 

[Martha]

There is some sexism out there on ER women versus ER men. My husband retired early and got lots and lots of questions. Still does. Now I am very part time and likely soon to ER. Many people don't have a second thought about a woman not working or only working part time.

 

[Andre1969]

My fantasy is to be retired by the age of 45, at the latest. I really haven't thought about what I'm going to do when the subject comes up in conversation. Part of me wants to tell the truth, just with as few details as possible. But part of me just wants to sidestep the issue. Say I'm working from home, going on travel, or whatever.

I guess I'll decide what to do when I get there!

 

[Lusitan]

There is some sexism out there on ER women versus ER men. My husband retired early and got lots and lots of questions. Still does. Now I am very part time and likely soon to ER. Many people don't have a second thought about a woman not working or only working part time.

Yeah, society has accepted women working full-time, but has also continued to accept non-working female spouses without question; and all shades in between, like the women who goes back to work for a while part-time after raising kids etc.

Sadly, working-hard-until-you-die (or at least until 65) still seems to be ingrained in society as the "manly" thing to do. Sexism or not, I doubt it will change anytime soon.

But I guess I'm not manly enough - fine by me! They can call me a "girly-man" all they want on the way to work ...

I'm still about 10 years out but I should start thinking about my responses to those inevitable "so what do you do" questions ...

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

There is some sexism out there on ER women versus ER men. My husband retired early and got lots and lots of questions. Still does. Now I am very part time and likely soon to ER. Many people don't have a second thought about a woman not working or only working part time.

Ironically, this could be considered sexism against men (though I doubt that was its original intent). Women are free and unquestioned for being FI, while men are expected to be tied to work: which sounds like the more liberated gender in that context?

Odd how these things evolve. Another example of where we'd be well served by just eliminating "-isms."

 

[Martha]

Ironically, this could be considered sexism against men . .

Exactly. My best friend had a very good job and when she and her husband had children he stayed at home with them. I think he took a lot of grief from a lot of people for that decision. It was a perfect decision for the family. He was much more suited to staying at home with the kids than she was.

Now the kids are leaving the nest and he is working a part time job. Try to be a male and return to the workforce after being a stay at home dad.

And although each of their situations are different, I have heard Greg, JG, Cut Throat and CFB get grief for their working wives. Most often humorous, but now always.

 

[REWahoo]

And although each of their situations are different, I have heard Greg, JG, Cut Throat and CFB get grief for their working wives. Most often humorous, but now always.

Come now, Martha. There is nothing the forum admires more than a FIREd, kept man. A studley bunch, that they are... :

 

[Outtahere]

My dh is in that situation, works part time, gets his SSI yet his friends say things like, he married money or he's a kept man. At first it bothered him but then he realized they are just envious. I'm sure not a word would be said if it were the other way around.

 

[Martha]

Come now, Martha. There is nothing the forum admires more than a FIREd, kept man. A studley bunch, that they are... :

Manly men that they are, I am sure that they can take it. But I do think that male ERs are going to get on the average more questions about their status than female ERs.

 

[youbet]

And although each of their situations are different, I have heard Greg, JG, Cut Throat and CFB get grief for their working wives.  Most often humorous, but now always. 

I think the humorous grief they get on this forum for their working wives isn't for simply having a working wife while they are not working.  I think it's more for being labeled ER while DW still works.  For example, if a woman stays home with children in lieu of a career, is she ER?  We'd probably say no.  It's a negative to not give a "housewife" credit for working in that role.  But when  a man stays home in the same situation, we might refer to him as ER.  He probably doesn't want to be classified as a househusband.

We live in a world that likes to categorize people.......... often inaccurately or inappropriately.

Now........what scheme can I implement to get DW to bring in big bux while I ER?   

 

 

[greg]

This is a typical manly man in our neighborhood:

Gweneth Goes Down . . . um . . . town

Preface: Gold is a mysterious, magical, and powerful force in the universe. Only those who own it, breath it, think it are capable of using that magic.

Rothbard: Well, it looks like time to go to the bank again this week. I've got another stack of $100 and $500 bills filling my . . . er . . . pockets. (thinking as he walks to the bank: I should buy more CEF, or maybe just GLD, or maybe some of that new SLV, or . . . )
Gweneth: Hi-dee-ho, Mr. Rothbard.
Rothbard: Oh, hi Gwen. (Oh, oh.)
Gweneth: Oooooh. I saw you at the bank yesterday . . . nice pants. Very nice paaants. Mmmmmmmmm-mmmm-mmm!
Rothbard: (Holy crapola!) You look well today Ms. Gwen. And your hair looks lovely.
Gweneth: Thank you, Rothy. It's all natural blonde. I never let anything less than 99.99% pure touch any part of my body.
Rothbard: I've got an appointment to keep. (S&P 500 index fund-S&P 500 index fund-S&P 500 index fund)
Gweneth: I just put a new duvet on my bed, in my bedroom, in mmmmy apartment, innn-innnn my . . . .
RothbardNasdaq-nasdaq-nasdaq-nasdaq)
Gweneth: Would you like to seee? <as she runs her hands quickly down her sides and then slowly, slowly over her hips>
Rothbard: Damn Gweneth! (long term bonds with high duration-longer term bonds with higher duration-really loong bonds with very high duration . . . er . . . numbers)
Gweneth: Is that a stain on your pants.
Rothbard: Yes, it's gravy. I also have a spagetti sauce stain right here. <pointing> (it's working)
Gweneth: Ohh, OK! Well, it was nice talking to you then.
Rothbard: OK, goodbye. (thank god, now I can go to the bank and deposit all my gold money)
Gweneth: Ouuuuuu-ahhhh, Mr. Rothbard...Nice pants!

Episode 4: Gweneth does Dallas the Podunk Chamber of Commerce
Episode 5: Rothbard puts his innuendo in the wroong place!

 

[newyorklady]

Sounds like you need a new batch of friends. I bet you wish you could replace some of the relatives too.

This question pops up every few months:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=429.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=955.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=2168.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=3748.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=4241.0

When I'm asked that question by people who I run into people on the beach at 9:30 AM on a weekday, or mention at tae kwon do what I did all day, or even when I make an appointment with someone to look at their Craigslist stuff-- I just say that I'm retired. Navy. Submarines. I've never felt like a target or felt like I'm going to be hit up with a request for money, but maybe that's because of the way I look after a couple years' martial arts training. Or surfing. Or growing a ponytail.

As a general rule I've found it's less complicated to tell the truth. It's certainly easier (in the long run) than lying. Usually the simple factual statement that "I'm retired" is enough-- they decide it has nothing to do with them and they move on. They look at my hair, my smile, my manner of dress, and slot me into "beach bum". They probably think that I'm lying just to cover up for a drinking problem, that I got fired, or that I can't handle the pressure and I'm out on disability. I'm no threat to their existence.

If I get the "How can you afford it?!?" I explain that we're living off a military pension and burning savings until my wife's pension kicks in. Most people interpret that as "unemployable" or "lazy". Shipmates want to know how we're doing it so I loan them a copy of Bob's book, of which I now have three copies out "on loan".

"You're too young to be put out to pasture!!" is answered by admitting that you didn't know there was an age limit. That youth is wasted on the young and retirement is wasted on the old. That if they were paid $2900/month to stop going to work, would they show up next Monday? Suddenly the subject gets changed.

"But waddya DO all day?!?" is met with explanations that we're raising a teenager, surfing, enjoying life, improving our home, working out, and managing our finances. Reading a lot. Living. Traveling a little. Thinking about what we'd like to do next. Again they veer off to another topic because they just can't see how this one pertains to their lives.

"How did you do it?" starts a discussion about LBYM, saving 10-15%, and using low-cost index funds. By the time I get to "Four Pillars" their eyeballs are glazing over, they decide it couldn't possibly have anything to do with them, and I must really be unemployable.

Most of the conversations go like this one.

Never had any problems with family. My father and my FIL are my ER inspirations. My BIL says he & spouse are partying too hard to ER just yet, but in five more years... and I think this time he really means it. Other relatives haven't asked the questions so I don't bother them with the subject.

I never get any solicitations for cash, loans, or volunteer time. If I did I'd say that we already have a charity & volunteering plan that takes all our spare cash & time. I'm always happy to help out a friend or a neighbor but they've never abused it.

Every once in a while, maybe one in a hundred, I get the "Really? Tell me how I can do that!" response. In this case they usually listen to the words, nod their heads, and do absolutely nothing about it. The following year they'll say "Really? Tell me how I can do that!" and the cycle starts all over again. I've learned to tolerate these people.

Once every thousand times or so I'll hear "Gee, that sounds great. How'd you do it?" And that's how you discover your new friends...

Actually Nords, when you said it sounds like I could use a new batch of friends this is not true. It really just weeded out the ones who were really never truly my friends in the first place. This was only a few people and luckily for me my real friends were happy for me and don't expect anything. The big issue is the in-laws (and there are a lot of them), and that is a much stickier situation. Can't just ditch them. While you do not lie it is a bit harder for someone my age to get away with this, though I really am to blame for being so naive and loud mouthed, I was just so excited and happy for myself. I am not a liar by nature, just want to avoid future problems, and if I could have done it all over again I would have a) not answered any questions or given any unneeded info and b) if pressed then lied and made something up. It still makes me mad, and I should just get over it as there is nothing I can do about what has been done. If these in-laws did not live way beyond their means they would not need handouts. I don't live the lavish lifestyle that they do, it just boggles my mind. If they needed help paying for an education, medical costs, etc. that would be one thing, but for luxuries that I don't even have, well they can go to hell. Ah, I really do have a bad attitude sometimes.

 

[brewer12345]

Manly men that they are, I am sure that they can take it.  But I do think that male ERs are going to get on the average more questions about their status than female ERs. 

Funny. Speaking of manly men, I just happened across this:

"Somebody said (or if no one did, I will) that women are realists pretending to be romantics, and men, romantics pretending to be realists. Yes. The male desire is to explore, to fly higher and higher, to invent and dare and go and see. The Apollo landings were not inspired by a desire to know the nature of lunar rocks. A man does not get on a rice-burning crotch-rocket on a desert road in Arizona and scream through the hot vastness, wap-wap-wap through the gears, 95, 105, 120…125 (go baby, get it on, do it for me), because it is particularly practical. It is the sheer glory of the thing, the speed and power, controlled but on the edge.

And now he wakes at five-thirty for the two-hour commute from Fredericksburg to Washington in crawling traffic, then to his cubicle at Agriculture where he tracks soybean yields in North Carolina. For his entire life.

It is not what men are wired to do. We just do not domesticate well. While male behavior is perhaps no more inherently absurd than female, it has little application to the suburbs and bureaucratic salt mines."

http://www.fredoneverything.net/SurvivalSchools.shtml


No offense, Greg, but I think I like Fred's writing better than tales of Rothbard.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

There are good reasons why talking about money is generally taboo socially.

so much for taboo. it never made any sense to me.

sex, money, god.

but for maybe the androgynous, our sex is rather right out there. yet we are made to feel ashamed, to have to hide it. still not real safe for men to hold hands in public, but at least women here are not required veils.

money is just below the surface, in our pockets, but also above the surface, in our transactions. yet we should keep that far from view? it's only ok to flash a fancy car if you bought on credit, but if you actually have cash, run & hide.

god, i would think, would be held closest to the heart, yet is the first thing society throws in your face.

that we should be made to hide our most outward selves yet flaunt our most personal of relationships, how twisted is that?

 

[REWahoo]

No offense, Greg, but I think I like Fred's writing better than tales of Rothbard.

Greg,

Don't let brewer's panning of your literary efforts get you down. I was delighted to see the latest episode of “The Adventures of Gweneth and Rothbard” appear unexpectedly on the forum today. You must know by now I’m one of your biggest fans (actually I’m not all that large…) and I must say I was greatly relieved that Tumescent, the evil step-brother, did not appear in episode three as you had previously indicated. Even though his name might indicate otherwise, somehow I don’t think he’s a stand-up kind of a guy. :

 

[Nords]

I agree that nothing separates the friends from the acquaintances like ER. And if those in-laws keep bringing up the topic then I guess the only other option is the "Miss Manners" approach-- stare silently for a second or two and then change the subject.

For a couple of years-- the really fun ones of 2002-3-- my FIL seemed pretty convinced that "we crazy kids" were going to put his only granddaughter in bankruptcy. Today he's resting easier and he can even calmly discuss $200 swings in the share value of Berkshire Hathaway. But I've learned not to discuss shorting stocks.

While you do not lie it is a bit harder for someone my age to get away with this, though I really am to blame for being so naive and loud mouthed, I was just so excited and happy for myself.

What age are you referring to? I ER'd at age 41 nearly four years ago...

 

[newyorklady]

Nords I am 30 now, and the problem and blessing came about a few years back.