In-ground pool chlorination-salt/mineral

[EastWest Gal]

We have an in-ground fiberglass pool and the chlorinator is starting to fail. For the remainder of this season, We're using a floating chlorinator and it is working fine. But reading other pool threads here, we're considering changing to a salt chlorinator, especially given the rise in price of chlorine and the pain of keeping chlorine tablets around.

Salt chlorinators have the problem of continuously raising the pH and also the corrosive nature of salt on pipes, etc. I've been reading about "mineral" systems, but none of the sites cut to the chase. One system uses a blend of salt and stabilizers, and another system uses magnesium chloride, but says nothing about what else is in their blend.

Of course, the pool companies we've contacted are trying to sell their proprietary blend, but they don't seem to know much about the actual chemistry of the products.

Does anyone know where to find actual information about the chemistry involved in these blends/systems? I didn't major in biochemistry for nothing, and can figure out the chemistry, but I need to know what is in the products.

Thanks for helping, if you can.

 

[EnglishRon]

TroubleFreePools will be your friend. A wealth of information and actual real world experience of taking control of pool ownership.

 

[Jerry1]

TroubleFreePools will be your friend. A wealth of information and actual real world experience of taking control of pool ownership.

Totally agree with the recommendation to discuss this on Trouble Free Pools. I’ve been engaged with them since I opened my pool last year (brand new last year) and am very happy with their advice and the results I’m seeing with my pool.

I have a salt water generator and I don’t have an issue with raising PH. I did at first, but now my pool is balanced and it hasn’t been a problem this year. I would get that floating chlorinator out of your pool as quickly as possible. Those tablets have stabilizer in them that will eventually cause your chlorine to become ineffective. Get over to TFP and start a conversation. You’ll be glad you did.

 

[Bamaman]

I installed an inground Imagine fiberglass pool last year, and we have the saltwater chlorinator. I understand just about all the new pools in our area are going in saltwater.

So far, so good. We just mainly watch our ph levels, and the readout on the generator tells when more salt is needed. I think I've put in just 1 new bag of salt since the initial treatment last year. Our water remains crystal clear after treatments with shock early in the Spring/Summer.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Thanks for the website. I have seen it but not done a deep dive yet.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Totally agree with the recommendation to discuss this on Trouble Free Pools. I’ve been engaged with them since I opened my pool last year (brand new last year) and am very happy with their advice and the results I’m seeing with my pool.

I have a salt water generator and I don’t have an issue with raising PH. I did at first, but now my pool is balanced and it hasn’t been a problem this year. I would get that floating chlorinator out of your pool as quickly as possible. Those tablets have stabilizer in them that will eventually cause your chlorine to become ineffective. Get over to TFP and start a conversation. You’ll be glad you did.

Thank you for your advice. Our cyanuric acid level is OK at the moment. But I will take your advice and use more liquid chlorine and cut the tablet use. I will sign up to see the forums. Their website is very user friendly.

 

[mebden]

I put a gunite inground pool 2 years ago and I never had a salt water generated pool. These systems are so easy to maintain just keep your salt level up and let the pump run around 8 hours a day when its hot and the chlorinator tells you if it should be chlorinating longer and just adjust a switch. I have had 3 different chlorine pools and would never go back way to much babysitting having to adjust all the ph, chlorine

 

[Cobra9777]

+1 on TFP. It's an excellent pool forum.

I use a mix of stabilized tabs and liquid. This time of year, I add one 3" tab per week, plus 1/2 gal of 15% liquid, 2-3 times per week. I never let CYA get above 20-30 ppm. If it gets above 30, I back off on the tabs. So I maintain free chlorine in the 2-6 ppm range. Having "some" CYA also helps stabilize pH.

Salt is not an option for us, as we have natural rocks in contact with the water. Salt would destroy them in no time. We also have an older heater and I've read that the salt will quickly destroy the heat exchanger. Newer heaters are designed to withstand salt corrosion.

I would not use anything except chlorine. Salt is a very convenient option for generating chlorine. But it is quite corrosive on certain materials. And you still have to add regular chlorine for shock when needed. They also don't maintain chlorine levels high enough at 1-3 ppm.

 

[Jerry1]

I would not use anything except chlorine. Salt is a very convenient option for generating chlorine. But it is quite corrosive on certain materials. And you still have to add regular chlorine for shock when needed. They also don't maintain chlorine levels high enough at 1-3 ppm.

I have a new pool, second year, with a salt water generator. I have a fiberglass pool and am a follower of TFP. My CYA is 60 and my SWG keeps my chlorine level at around 9 ppm. I could go way higher. I get 9 ppm running my pump 24/7 with the SWG set at about 30%.

 

[Cobra9777]

I have a new pool, second year, with a salt water generator. I have a fiberglass pool and am a follower of TFP. My CYA is 60 and my SWG keeps my chlorine level at around 9 ppm. I could go way higher. I get 9 ppm running my pump 24/7 with the SWG set at about 30%.

If you lowered your CYA to <30, you could safely maintain FC much lower than 9ppm, and you wouldn't need to run your pump 24/7.

What you're doing will work. But you're using tons of power running that pump continuously. And the pump will fail much sooner than the more-normal 8-10 hours per day runtime.

That seems like an expensive solution to me. The pump only needs to run 8-10 hours for proper filtration. You're running it 3X longer just to generate chlorine from salt. You could buy a truckload of liquid for all the money you're spending on power.

 

[Jerry1]

The pump is variable speed. I run it on low most of the time and bump it up a bit for a few hours for better skimming. At no time does the pump draw more than 200 watts. Right now it’s running at 45% and drawing 110 watts.

As for the CYA, I’m comfortable keeping it high. In fact, my SWG recommends a higher CYA, but I’m following the TFP approach and have had no issues with my pool for the two years that I’ve owned it. Even the people who opened it this year said they’ve never seen a cleaner pool. I’ve never had algae and I don’t think I ever will unless I have an equipment failure that I can’t recover from quickly enough.

Also, I’ve never had any complaints about my water from swimmers. No one has red eyes or itchy skin - nothing. In fact, the comments are usually that they like how the salt water feels.

 

[Cobra9777]

Suit yourself. I've never heard of anyone running their pump 24/7, variable speed or not. The pump is there for circulation and filtration, not chlorine generation.

If you're only at 30%, why not crank up the SWG and give the pump a rest?

 

[Dtail]

I add muratic acid once a week and the it keeps the PH levels good in our saltwater pool.
Once in awhile, I need to add salt.
The DIY maintenance is fairly easy.

 

[Aerides]

I am brand new with my salt pool. Love it. While everyone will tell you "but but but the salt is converted to chlorine..." yeah well it doesn't smell or taste like chlorine, it feels silky and doesn't bleach out my hair or anything like a regular pool would. Tastes like salt, doesn't burn your eyes under water, etc.

My first trip to get a water test done (have several local spots) I came away with LOT of stuff (salt, acid, stabilizer, calcium something) but after that it's been really nothing. Once things got balanced, yeah sometimes I need a cup or two of acid. And yeah a little salt every few weeks. Both are very cheap, and now I have my own test kit which was very easy to learn. I still validate with a trip to the pool store every couple of weeks, because we've had lot of rain, but it's stayed well balanced for a good month now.

We run our pump 8 hours a day, half of that at half speed. Then a bit longer on days I want to be out in the evening or running the waterfall/jets during the off hours. The addition of the pump has added at most $50 a month to our electric bill, but hard to tell with the summer temps so it could be other factors.

 

[Jerry1]

Suit yourself. I've never heard of anyone running their pump 24/7, variable speed or not. The pump is there for circulation and filtration, not chlorine generation.

If you're only at 30%, why not crank up the SWG and give the pump a rest?

I don’t see any reason to give a pump a rest. It can rest in the winter.

FWIW, many on TFP run their pumps 24/7. At that speed, they’ll last just as long or longer than running them at short intervals at 100%.

I like running it 24/7. It skims all day and it is much cleaner because of that. Less stuff floating on top and hardly anything sinks to the bottom. Plus, it is an easier way to get my chlorine level to stay where I want it.

ETA: Also, my heater only works with water flowing. With the pump on 24/7, I can keep the water heated. I don’t let it get below 80 degrees at night and then bring it up to swimming temp in the morning. I’ll shut off the heater if I know we’re not going to use the pool for a few days. And, this time of year, it doesn’t come on much and will over shoot our desired temp just from sun/ambient temp.

 

[Cobra9777]

...it doesn't smell or taste like chlorine, it feels silky and doesn't bleach out my hair or anything like a regular pool would...

Properly maintained "regular pools" most certainly do NOT smell or taste like chlorine, nor should they bleach your hair.

Per the American Chemistry Council:

Pool smell is due, not to chlorine, but to chloramines, chemical compounds that build up in pool water when it is improperly treated. Chloramines result from the combination of two ingredients: (a) chlorine disinfectants and (b) perspiration, oils and urine that enter pools on the bodies of swimmers.

Swimmers with reddened, irritated eyes have been known to complain that "there is too much chlorine in the pool". In fact, however, when pool water is irritating, there is not enough chlorine in swimming pool water!

You may be surprised to learn that there is no odor to a well-managed pool. Chloramines, which produce pool smell, can be eliminated using chlorine. "Shock treatment" or "superchlorination" is the practice of adding extra chlorine to pools to destroy ammonia and the organic compounds that combine with chlorine to make chloramines.

As for bleaching hair (esp. dyed hair), that can happen at high chlorine levels, like right after shocking. My wife and daughter both dye their hair and that's never happened in our pool in 20+ years. I don't let anyone swim right after shocking. And I maintain CYA and chlorine at low levels which won't affect hair or swimsuits, but is still very effective at sanitization, per TFP guidelines.

Point is, there is nothing fundamentally different about a saltwater pool. If you get into a saltwater pool with dyed hair right after shocking with chlorine, then you are just as likely to have your hair affected. And yes, saltwater pools have to be periodically shocked with regular chlorine to remove organic compounds that produce chloramines.

 

[Cobra9777]

I don’t see any reason to give a pump a rest...

I suppose we're approaching territory.

But IMO, you're just wasting energy and reducing the life of the pump. You can achieve the same water quality results with a lower CYA, lower FC level, and running the pump 8 hours per day.

 

[Jerry1]

I suppose we're approaching territory.

But IMO, you're just wasting energy and reducing the life of the pump. You can achieve the same water quality results with a lower CYA, lower FC level, and running the pump 8 hours per day.

Just one of many threads on the topic at TFP.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/thoughts-on-running-pump-24-7.227044/

In my college days I worked for a company that rebuilt electric motors. Many of the attached to pumps and generators. This type of equipment generally lasts longer if you don’t cycle it. Ever notice the surge on your electric when a motor turn on in you air conditioner or refrigerator? The nice thing about a variable speed pump is that you can run them slower and much more cost effective. As I said, my pump at 45% is only pulling 110 watts. Right now its running at 65% and pulling 287 watts (so I have to correct my earlier belief that it never went above 200 watts.). So power consumption is not really an issue. I’m not a wasteful person, but there is a realization that a pool is not a cheap endeavor, and even if I’m burning a bit more electricity than I could otherwise, it’s not noticeable and it’s a balance for the other benefits I get from running it that way.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Totally agree with the recommendation to discuss this on Trouble Free Pools. I’ve been engaged with them since I opened my pool last year (brand new last year) and am very happy with their advice and the results I’m seeing with my pool.

I have a salt water generator and I don’t have an issue with raising PH. I did at first, but now my pool is balanced and it hasn’t been a problem this year. I would get that floating chlorinator out of your pool as quickly as possible. Those tablets have stabilizer in them that will eventually cause your chlorine to become ineffective. Get over to TFP and start a conversation. You’ll be glad you did.

+1 on TFP. We have lived in our house since late 2018 and they have been instrumental in helping with our pool. I am very proud to report that I have never had an algae outbreak and it is clear enough that you can read the mint date off a quarter that is at the bottom of the deep end.

Also, no issues with PH increase with my SWCG once I got my total alkalinity "in range" as recommended by the TFP method.

Their website is very user friendly.

Yes, yes it is. I would LOVE for er.org to use the same platform...hint, hint.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Just one of many threads on the topic at TFP.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/thoughts-on-running-pump-24-7.227044/

In my college days I worked for a company that rebuilt electric motors. Many of the attached to pumps and generators. This type of equipment generally lasts longer if you don’t cycle it. Ever notice the surge on your electric when a motor turn on in you air conditioner or refrigerator? The nice thing about a variable speed pump is that you can run them slower and much more cost effective. As I said, my pump at 45% is only pulling 110 watts. Right now its running at 65% and pulling 287 watts (so I have to correct my earlier belief that it never went above 200 watts.). So power consumption is not really an issue. I’m not a wasteful person, but there is a realization that a pool is not a cheap endeavor, and even if I’m burning a bit more electricity than I could otherwise, it’s not noticeable and it’s a balance for the other benefits I get from running it that way.

Not only to mention that EPA standards now mandate VSPs (expensive initially) so unless you source your own pump you might have an issue trying to replace the one speed pump by a licensed contractor.

Yes, a pool is indeed a luxurious endeavor ($$$) but still cheaper than a boat and/or airplane.

 

[mebden]

Properly maintained "regular pools" most certainly do NOT smell or taste like chlorine, nor should they bleach your hair.

Per the American Chemistry Council:



As for bleaching hair (esp. dyed hair), that can happen at high chlorine levels, like right after shocking. My wife and daughter both dye their hair and that's never happened in our pool in 20+ years. I don't let anyone swim right after shocking. And I maintain CYA and chlorine at low levels which won't affect hair or swimsuits, but is still very effective at sanitization, per TFP guidelines.

Point is, there is nothing fundamentally different about a saltwater pool. If you get into a saltwater pool with dyed hair right after shocking with chlorine, then you are just as likely to have your hair affected. And yes, saltwater pools have to be periodically shocked with regular chlorine to remove organic compounds that produce chloramines.

I'm sorry to report Cobra in the 2 years I've owned my pool never had to add any chlorine to my pool and its been crystal clear since the day I had it put in but now salt thats a different story this year and we've had so much rain so its been eating up my salt and my pool stays open year round nothing like swimming in January in a heated pool

 

[Freedom56]

We have had our salt water chlorinator (Jandy Acquapure) since 2005 in our gunite pool. You really have to watch your pool chemistry with salt water pools since the process involves electrolysis to generate chlorine from salt and the byproducts lead to scale formation. High PH accelerates scale formation so you have to keep PH in the 7.4 range. I add about a half gallon of muriatic acid into our 40,000 gallon pool every week to keep our PH in range. PH increases with aeration from water features or spill-overs from spas. The first two years with the system were great but then came the repairs and maintenance. The salt cells have to be changed every 3 to 5 years and they can be expensive. I replaced the control board once in the control unit. If you are not capable of performing your own repairs, these systems can become expensive. If you were expecting lower operating costs versus using chlorine tablets, they are not. They do give you smoother and silkier water that won't burn your eyes. The bags of salt are inexpensive and after your initial start-up you may add one bag per year depending on how much rain you have,

 

[Montecfo]

We used copper ionization in our pool in Scottsdale and found it to be an excellent alternative to chlorine (no smell, no adjustment). Not sure if many folks are using that but worked well for us.