Movin' back to the Mainland?

Rich_in_Tampa said:
Hmm.. I don't think that take is very accurate, at least for me and the DW and all our friends. The desire to be around your grandkids, especially in their young years, is very strong and emotional. I can't even conceive of how political correctness would factor in for us.

Now actually living in the same area is a highly variable issue, and I don't know how well that would work out over the long term, and when the gkids get older they probably could care less about the grandparents (or their parents, for that matter). But in those first 10 years, it really can be special.

I always cringe when I hear people say, "if you haven't experienced it you couldn't understand" but maybe this is a situation were that applies a little bit, not with any value judgment implied, just that it's hard to put into words.

What Doc said...

Nothing politically correct/incorrect about the desire to spend time with your young grandchildren. I'm thinking it's most likely genetic. But whatever it is, it's good (up to a point...) ;)
 
REWahoo! said:
Nothing politically correct/incorrect about the desire to spend time with your young grandchildren. I'm thinking it's most likely genetic. But whatever it is, it's good (up to a point...) ;)
See my post above yours.

Audrey
 
audreyh1 said:
I'm NOT questioning the need to be around grandchildren. What makes me wonder is expressing the need to be around them ALL THE TIME.

Yup, roger that. Get away on a nice RV trip and spend your time whining that you're not home with the grandkids who live in the same town? Can't relate, but then again it takes all types, I guess.
 
They should consider Baltimore! Beautiful new houses with elevators being built by the harbor and Route 95 is right out the back door. Airport only 20 minutes away. Not cheap though.
 
The grandparent issue hits home here.Please remember you need to spend some time every year even when your busy living up your retirement if you want a relationship. My fil is has been staying for the xmas vacation for the second year in a row, but dosen't understand why the kids(late teens and college) aren't spending all their time with him. Kids wonder where he was the last 20-16 years. (although always invited never spent more then a night in the area- we were hotel stop on snowbird trip each year. The kids knew they loved them but didn't want them to interfer with their retirement., but now that mil has died he's lonley But If you don't put time in a regular basis don't expect to suddenly be part of someones life. My kids have informed me that we will be around for some of the school plays, soccergames or at least be in touch throughl etters cards email etc so that we are a part of their life so when we get old and crotchity the can tease us rather than just have the polite respect you give to the elderly. Nords your inlaws have put in time and now if they move back to MD you daughter will still have a relationship with them. Specially if she ends up at the navy accadamy .
 
Nords said:
Money is not an issue. Their Annapolis home doubled in value from 1983-2001 so they sold at a huge profit which has been invested in CDs & Treasuries. They've rented for the last five years but I guess they'll buy a smaller home (less maintenance) or move to a less-crowded part of Maryland. I think they'll probably settle close to their son but they're also open to whatever they find.

Here is a thought for you Nords. Since 2001 real estate prices in MD are up 50% or more, even west or south of Annapolis in more rural parts, and over on the eastern shore. There is a huge amount of speculation centered around government jobs and defense contracting. Even if money is not an issue, your in-laws may be in for some "sticker shock" and you may want to warn them about this, if they're not already familiar with it. Then again it sounds like you're getting used to the idea of having Hawaii to yourself so maybe you shouldn't mention it at all...
 
macdaddy said:
Here is a thought for you Nords. Since 2001 real estate prices in MD are up 50% or more, even west or south of Annapolis in more rural parts, and over on the eastern shore. There is a huge amount of speculation centered around government jobs and defense contracting. Even if money is not an issue, your in-laws may be in for some "sticker shock" and you may want to warn them about this, if they're not already familiar with it. Then again it sounds like you're getting used to the idea of having Hawaii to yourself so maybe you shouldn't mention it at all...
Yeah, it's hard to have an objective discussion when your spouse keeps kicking you under the table.

BIL lives in Crofton so everyone's aware of the market. They'd either downsize, bottom-fish (least desirable option), or move to a lower-cost suburb of Annapolis (like South Carolina!).
 
Just because they moved back to their old stomping grounds won't mean that you/wife won't be needed to help them as life progresses. If one of them becomes ill it can be overwhelming for the healthy spouse. Without knowing their age it is difficult to comment, but sometime around their 70s thought should be given to potential care issues.

If they are in their 50s-60s it is a too early to look at continuing care communities. Once they are in their late 60s getting on a wait list (the good ones have wait lists that are easily 5 years long) is not too soon.
 
Brat said:
Just because they moved back to their old stomping grounds won't mean that you/wife won't be needed to help them as life progresses. If one of them becomes ill it can be overwhelming for the healthy spouse. Without knowing their age it is difficult to comment, but sometime around their 70s thought should be given to potential care issues.
If they are in their 50s-60s it is a too early to look at continuing care communities. Once they are in their late 60s getting on a wait list (the good ones have wait lists that are easily 5 years long) is not too soon.
We've devoted a lot of thought to that, but I'm not sure that too much thought has come from their side of the question. He's nearly 73 and she just turned 69. They have the typical medical & healthcare directives but, because I've never heard any griping about it, I don't think that they carry LTC insurance.

All four of their parents, self-described as hardy Russian peasant stock, lived well into their 90s. They lied about their ages and forged so many birth certificates that the real numbers are probably triple digits. All were mentally sharp even though they may have eventually become functionally deaf, blind, and not too mobile. That phase of their lives didn't last more than a year.

We want to donate our fair share of time, presence, and/or money. No issue there. My BIL and his wife are already coping with some issues around her parents, who also live near them, and she's an only child.

Here in Hawaii, we got together today for a couple hours. In the typical family disfunctional tradition, we sat around talking about everything else but the elephant parked in the middle of the room. Early signs are that FIL jumped the gun and that MIL is not completely on board with his initiative. However he's raised a number of issues that are very important to him, he feels that "the sands of time are running out", and he wouldn't have been allowed to make that first phone call if MIL didn't feel at least a portion of what he's expressed. This may not be happening tomorrow but it will happen and it will be fraught with tension.

Maybe we totally surprised everyone with our "Sure, whatever you guys want to do is fine with us, we support whatever decision you make" response. That sort of parental judo is very effective with teenagers, although I've never used it on parents before. But verifying their feelings would require us to actually have a discussion about it instead of re-enacting a Korean soap opera of interpreting body language, small gestures, and things left unsaid.

I guess I should have realized that a dramatic exit of this nature wouldn't have been made without plenty of drama.
 
I know of the lack of CC places in HI, my Mom explored that when they were snow-birds.

On the 'support you with whatever you decide' you could suggest that they rent an apartment for a year or so. Neighborhoods change, friends move. They remember it like it used to be (don't we all). Renting will cushion the adjustment process and help them decide where they want to settle long term.
 
Nords said:
Maybe we totally surprised everyone with our "Sure, whatever you guys want to do is fine with us, we support whatever decision you make" response. That sort of parental judo is very effective with teenagers, although I've never used it on parents before. But verifying their feelings would require us to actually have a discussion about it instead of re-enacting a Korean soap opera of interpreting body language, small gestures, and things left unsaid.

I guess I should have realized that a dramatic exit of this nature wouldn't have been made without plenty of drama.
Ugh! My condolences.

Audrey
 
Well that was fast.

Short story: they bought a condo, they're closing next month, and they'll be flying out by March.

Long story for you elder-psychology fans: Last month my MIL told my spouse "Your father is overreacting and getting ahead of himself. We're talking about it but we're not moving anytime soon. We're visiting Annapolis in March and then we'll make a decision." So we put away our checklists and sat back. Then last week, when I had my head under the sink fixing their dishwasher, my MIL said something about moving. I pulled my head out of the noise and asked "Did you say moving?" She replied, "Yes, we're moving soon, remember?" She said that they'd hired a realtor to look for a place in March. They swore they wouldn't be pushed around by the realtor until they were ready to visit houses.

Last week, on their own initiative and without talking to their realtor, they got on the Internet (56 Kbps!) and actually searched the MLS. I have no idea what inspired them to do that but it's a huge leap for people who barely do e-mail. They found an over-55 community near Annapolis with 600+ condos in three-story buildings (with elevators) and all the amenities. It has a parking garage, they can walk to shopping and the bus stop, and there are organized trips, tours, & other group activities. The listing is a three-year-old second-floor 1700 sq ft 2BR 2BA condo with a den and a balcony overlooking the shopping center a block away. It even has a walk-in shower with a bench seat. The 94-year-old owner died a year ago and the heir (in Florida) was selling after trying to rent it with Mom's furniture.

My PILs sent their son (a CPA) to see the place on Saturday. It's pristine and doesn't even need dusting, let alone painting. He returned Monday with their realtor (and a POA) to make an offer. By yesterday the $350K listing was knocked down to $325K and they signed a contract. The place will be cleared out & closed by the end of February. (MIL quote: "I don't want an old dead woman's furniture!!" Good to know, Mom.) We got the news last night. They're practically panting with eagerness to get out of here and start the next phase of their lives.

Coincidentally, unknown to my PILs at the time, my SIL's parents also live in that community. So now my BIL and his wife have both sets of parents in the same place for weekends & holiday visiting-- sort of like dueling "Everybody Loves Raymond". My BIL is not happy, but at least Hanukah & Christmas fall on different days and there are no kids there to play tug-of-war over.

So next week we're "interviewing" moving companies, and my wife just realized that her parents will be moving in with us for a month...
 
Wow! Something is energizing them big time.

Hope the DW is OK with them leaving - you may have quite a transition on your hands at your end when they leave. Of course, if they move in with you for a few months before D-day, change "transition" to "celebration."

Hope it works out all around.
 
Their choosing a 55+ community was good for YOU. At least they will have resources frequently needed by that age group near at hand.
 
"Decide and conquer" or some such aphorism. Or as I used to say at work, you've made the decision, now you have to make it right. Their speed is amazing.

I was surprised at the 325k. I thought you said their investments were slowly but surely running low. I must have misinterperted something. Anyway, good for them if that's what they really want to do.
 
Eagle43 said:
"Decide and conquer" or some such aphorism. Or as I used to say at work, you've made the decision, now you have to make it right. Their speed is amazing.
I don't know if it's a "just do it" attitude or if they're worried that prices will spike or if this was just too good a property to pass up. I'm happy that they were able to get it done without dragging realtors all over the county!

Eagle43 said:
I was surprised at the 325k. I thought you said their investments were slowly but surely running low. I must have misinterperted something. Anyway, good for them if that's what they really want to do.
They're 90%+ Treasuries & CDs (with about 10% in "play money" index funds) and they got whipsawed pretty good by the 2000-2004 interest rate dip. It wasn't so much that they were running out of money as they were trying to avoid dipping into principal (even though FIRECalc would decree that they have more than enough). It's hard to roll over a 7% CD at 1.5% and live off the interest. When FIL discovered that the electric bill jumped 10% one month he almost blew a gasket. Then we realized it had gone from $40 to $44...

They sold their last Annapolis property (large single-family home on a half-acre lot) for $249K so after five years of CDs they're buying back a downsized condo for $75K plus an extra $235/month HOA fee. The irony was that they spent the last five years divesting themselves of a Crofton rental townhouse, getting Hawaii driver's licenses, and switching their residency/voter registration to Hawaii. Now they have to reverse it all. And wait'll they go from low Hawaii retiree & property taxes to the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland again!

Spouse is still smiling. My BIL the CPA is going to have to deal with it all. But at least no one is shoveling snow, raking leaves, or mowing the grass anymore. And I think that, unlike us, they've kept their winter clothing.
 
Wow, missed this thread originally. That's some big news!

I wonder if they'll regret it, I got island fever when I lived there, but now I pine away for those days. As Nords knows, DW and I are in total agreement that Hawaii is heaven on Earth, and while we plan on seeing many places once, we plan on vacationing in Hawaii as much as possible. Our retirement dream is to downsize here in San Diego to a condo and with the leftovers buy a small condo in Hawaii, and do a 60/40 split. We have friends who did that for about a decade, then sold the San Diego house and moved to Hawaii permanently.
 
What a relief they bought in an over 55s communities. It's so much easier when they do it by choice rather than make their kids push them to make the move.

Must admit if we were to leave SD the only other place in the US we would consider is Hawaii. We are semi-tempted to buy a place in Hawaii and split our time between Oz and Hawaii. Then the reality of maintaining a second residence kicks in along with the realisation how many more days it would take to get up and go to w*rk to pay for it.
 
Wow that was quick. I am impresed with their motivation and follow through. (And with the MLS internet search!)
 
Rock Fever is hardest for those who are fairly new to Hawaii.
I have lived here 20 years.
i got it for a while,but it does dissipate. But nothing makes me understand what we have in Hawaii than when i call back home to N.Y. and my bros are freezing their butts off, cant leave the house several months of the year, and pay thousands to visit me here for only 2 weeks per year. Plus, it is hard to understand how in Hawaii, you are not judged by what stuff you have, but who you are inside. Seems like in N.y. and other metro areas, " keeping up with the Jones's" is important!! NOT MY STYLE ;)

yes, we pay for it a bit more in the pocket , but I am blessed!!
 
Nords-

Congrats/condolences on this big life change. I know your wife is happy and I have followed some of your many sagas that you have related online including the start of this one (was out of town when the "big" news came, tho). I just wonder if you won't miss them anyway once they are gone? Or is it one of those where you start to miss them, smack yourself in the head and then say, "What am I nuts!?! Remember when they (fill in the episode)." I guess you guys will just have to wait and see. BTW, what does your DD think of all this? Why do the PILs have to move in with you prior to the move? Did I miss something?

It shall be interesting to see how your BIL & SIL make out with them. I imagine you and your DW are anticipating watching it all with some degree of glee?

Jane (Having fun watching others deal with family .........) :)

P.S. Thanks, Wstu32 for bumping this thread - I had missed the update while out of town. 8)
 
audreyh1 said:
Personally, I don't "get" the need to live close to kids or grandkids. Maybe it's because I don't have either!

These kind of situations are unique and personal to each individual. Living nearby kids and grandkids is absolutely the best situation for some folks and their families, and not such a good idea for others. And, making the situation even more variable, what's best at one point in time can be different at another point in time.

It's best to just accept that different people are who they are, have different life circumstances and that people being different is what makes life interesting! ;)
 
Jane_Doe said:
Congrats/condolences on this big life change. I know your wife is happy and I have followed some of your many sagas that you have related online including the start of this one (was out of town when the "big" news came, tho). I just wonder if you won't miss them anyway once they are gone? Or is it one of those where you start to miss them, smack yourself in the head and then say, "What am I nuts!?! Remember when they (fill in the episode)." I guess you guys will just have to wait and see. BTW, what does your DD think of all this? Why do the PILs have to move in with you prior to the move? Did I miss something?
It shall be interesting to see how your BIL & SIL make out with them. I imagine you and your DW are anticipating watching it all with some degree of glee?
Right now I'm firmly in the "won't miss 'em" camp and just about ready to e-mail Dr. Phil. My apologies for yet another long occupational-therapy post but hopefully my lessons learned will help some of you avoid repeating our mistakes-- or maybe you guys have suggestions.

After our two decades of military experience, spouse and I have some credibility with "emotional distancing" and we know a thing or two about packing & moving. Her parents are going way overboard in all categories and moving day is still over three weeks away, but heaven forbid that they talk about it with us "kids". I don't know what's fueling their behavior but my FIL, in particular, is heading for cardiac jeopardy. We also appear to have been assigned the role of 24/7 crisis response.

For his last decade of retirement this man, now almost 74 years old, has never arisen before 10 AM. Yet in the last two weeks I've had two "come over right now" calls at 8 AM asking for tools or obsessing over the packing list. They're also giving us many of their possessions as "too heavy to be worth moving back to the Mainland" yet demanding that we get them out of their house now now now. So we attempt to respond promptly to each "crisis" within one day-- but we've turned off the phone ringers until March. MIL claims nothing's wrong.

This week it was the "termite alarm". Their solid wood 1964 TV cabinet was unceremoniously dumped on the curb when a small pile of sawdust was discovered inside. We were told to get an exterminator down there ASAP (Hawaii has a big problem with Formosan underground termites) but the infestation is actually powder-post beetles. FIL won't keep poisons like "Raid" in the house so we brought down a can and showed him what to do. He verbally dithered for about 15 minutes (managing to repeatedly question our credibility in the process), eventually decided not to risk the whole packout with a piece of "contaminated furniture", and junked it. Then we discovered more sawdust piles in the cabinets of their five-foot-tall stained-glass display windows-- so he had to get over his poison & contamination fears and finally drenched the wood in that chemical-- and then complained about the smell. They're still obsessing about powder-post beetles infesting their new condo despite my explanation that their furniture will see a couple of weeks of freezing weather before it gets there. However we're just inexperienced kids so now they're consulting furniture & moving experts. And of course my spouse is fuming on the sidelines about "Not leaving any of their stained-glass crap in MY house!" MIL says nothing is wrong, they're doing fine.

After asking us a bunch of questions about Craigslist, they're selling some 50-year-old Danish Modern wedding furniture on it. We know this not because they told us or asked for help but because my spouse, a Craigslist maven, found their ad. It's terrible copy without any real info or photos and way too expensive but they didn't ask for our help and we couldn't offer because weren't supposed to "know" that they'd done it. They finally brought it up while kvetching about what a waste of time Craigslist is, no one offers what their stuff is worth, they're only getting calls from whackos, and so forth. Now they're "running out of time" and a bunch of their furniture will end up on our front lanai, where my spouse will sell it. (On Craigslist.) But when I ask my MIL how we can help she says everything's fine.

Money is becoming a family-breaking issue. You already know how I feel about their 100% fixed-income portfolio giving them a miserly attitude toward spending, but their latest behavior makes me wonder about their mental health. In the late '90s, when the market was flying high, they gifted their daughter with some cash and advised us that we could spend it on their long-term care when the time came. We were first told to invest it safely but later repeatedly admonished "No, no, it's your money, do whatever you want." Uncertainty over interpreting those subtle family signals has kept that money fenced off in CDs for nearly a decade instead of being treated as "hers". (Of course I've had to do the fiduciary bookkeeping, pay taxes on the interest, and so on.) We haven't dared touch it or incorporate it into any of our financial plans.

Good thing-- because the first piece of business after the "moving to the Mainland" announcement was "... and we want you to give us 'our' money back to buy the condo and pay the moving expenses". (Thank goodness spouse hadn't bought b33ver cheese futures on margin with "her" money, eh?) Spouse broke the CDs, paid the early-redemption fees, and wrote them a check. She says that if it makes them go away and never "give" her any money again then it's worth it.

Last week MIL mentioned in passing that they'd be getting a mortgage on the condo. Spouse and I had one of those long marital asset-allocation discussions and decided to offer to loan her parents the mortgage and save them a point or two on interest rates & closing costs-- however they cared to do it, we'd treat it as a loan and even write it off if necessary. We e-mailed them and the reply was "Thank you, the arrangements have already been made." The closing is still three weeks away so this appears to be more of a Miss Manners polite excuse, which is fine with us. The subject will never be discussed in this family again, and this time we really mean it. After all, everything's fine.

Yet although they've declined our offer to help save thousands in mortgage money, my FIL wants me to pay him the $6.59/bag it cost him to buy three bags of water-conditioner salt that he's leaving behind. (Sure, Dad-- run me a tab and let me know what I owe you.) He's so intense about things these days that you can practically see his hair smolder. He hasn't smiled or joked or relaxed since the announcement-- just barked out orders or complaints and rushed from one self-imposed crisis to the next. My MIL says everything's fine.

I've learned to be very wary of parental gifts and to never never ever again offer to loan money to family. But our consciences are clear.

Before they decided to move back to the Mainland, PIL had agreed to take care of our teen during our own upcoming Mom & Dad Mainland trip. They've done this a couple times before and it's been no problem, but now we're getting the distinct impression that they're sorry they'd agreed to move into our house to take care of their granddaughter. But the stakes are high-- we don't want to let them out of it because this is our last grownups trip before our 9th-grader leaves the nest and we could use a little marital-harmony bliss right now. An extra benefit is that we'll be on travel during the actual packout instead of being dragooned into watching the movers. And although they haven't let us know yet, we think that they're flying out the same day that we're returning. But spouse is making this trip for Navy Reserve business, so I'm mentally ready to eat a non-refundable plane ticket if PILs dig in their heels and insist that they can't fulfill their grandparent obligations.

You would think that with 30-45 days until your possessions arrive at your new home, you'd take a nice long trip. Australia. Japan. Tahiti. A cruise to California. Heck, even a Gettysburg Elderhostel. Go now before you age in place! But no, they're flying to move in with my BIL and his wife for the 4-6 weeks until moving day and fret over the pristine new (but empty) condo that they're paying a mortgage on yet can't live in without furniture. (Maybe they'll drag everyone out shopping for their first new furniture in five decades.) So now all my in-laws are equally unhappy. My spouse is experiencing heavy guilty schadenfreude in between happy dances.

Our kid has known for years that Grandma & Grandpa don't have to follow some household rules that the kid would never get away with ignoring. Lately she's been picking up on other generational inconsistencies (especially the casual racism and the failure to enjoy Hawaii's culture) so their move is probably a good idea. Our kid is also old enough to hop on a plane to visit them anytime, and we'll pay for the trip. But my MIL insists that everything's fine.

I used to feel maudlin that my own mother died before we developed an adult relationship, and that my dad only swaps a couple e-mails a year. Lately, however, I've been feeling like the lucky one.

This whole drama can't be a case of Rock Fever, can it? Maybe someday we'll learn why PIL are really so hot to get out of here and under so much self-imposed stress. But considering the current degree of family communications, it's not likely. Everything's fine. "OK, fine!"
 
Nords said:
Right now I'm firmly in the "won't miss 'em" camp and just about ready to e-mail Dr. Phil.

Oy vey ;).

Can't help but think clinically here, with their behavior so over the edge. You've done your duties, gone beyond the call many times (offered to take back their condo mortgage!), tolerated their seemingly rude and unappreciative behavior.

Boundary time, before it starts to really do some damage? One housecall per week for nonemergency insect abatement, no financial deals other than real rescues, etc.?

Their behavior sounds like they are terrified of something. I've seen it in that age group and it's not always obvious.

You're a great SIL and DW is a great DD. This will be over soon.
 
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