Politically Correct Retirement
- Thread starter Donner
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Mr._johngalt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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I've had many "rough days in court". Doubt I am done yet.
JG
JG
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I think the point is, had you continued down the path you were on, you most likely would have ended up broke within a decade or been back to work.
Maybe not...but very likely.
The story that one can bail out with under a half million in hand and more than 15 years before social security and make it? Boy, that'd be living in a subterranean cellar a few miles below most peoples LBYM level...
But if what you mean is that its a nice idea to get the heck out of a bad work situation and figure things out from there, heck, thats what I did. I didnt think I had the means to make it, although I found out that I did.
My working wife (she just wont quit!) certainly improves my odds from 98% to 100%+...and I honor and respect her contributions whenever I can. I certainly dont claim that my own brainpower and willpower are what will be getting us to the end...it'll be both of our mutual hard work, discipline and contributions that do it.
Mr._johngalt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Hey th! You left out one option. Should be
"broke within a decade, back to work, or DEAD". Anyway, we will
never know now, will we?
JG
"broke within a decade, back to work, or DEAD". Anyway, we will
never know now, will we?
JG
Exactly Th.
Really, i'm not trying to pick on you so much JG as I am concerned about supporting that everyone that comes here be responsible about their ER plans. I highly disagree with your "just do it" approach, as I think it should be planned. As much money as you made at one point JG, surely someone smart enough to do so can see the value of planning. Its not like it takes months, weeks, or even days.
Part of it, I guess, depends on your skills and job field. I'm in a highly specialized niche of the job market where I had to expand my job search to, literally, the SE US to have a reasonable chance of getting employeed for what I do. Point being, when the day comes that I am going to retire, I need to be very careful I wont need to come back, because coming back might just be impossible.
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
A single person with 500k, unemployed, renting, in todays market. Easy.
Psst - Wellesley and don't live in any high cost of living areas. Someplace nice like Nickelson, Ms instead of high cost Picayune.
Back in the days of $50/day budgets we beat to death on this forum - doable BUT not what most dream about
for ER and the Margin of Safety is chewy to paraphrase Ben Graham.
My plan was 63, ended up an 'accidental ER' at 49. History's kind winds(1993 - 2004) and a variety of 'lucky circumstances' have colored my view somewhat.
Being left handed INTJ - plan out the wazoo, with backups AND always, always replan when the serendipity of life arrives.
The central nugget of this forum for me - how to be a really cheap bastard on a day to day basis - so I can get wild and frivolous with MY Margin of Safety when the mood strikes.
Plan,plan plan, - budget, budget, budget!
Heh, heh, heh.
Psst - Wellesley and don't live in any high cost of living areas. Someplace nice like Nickelson, Ms instead of high cost Picayune.
Back in the days of $50/day budgets we beat to death on this forum - doable BUT not what most dream about
for ER and the Margin of Safety is chewy to paraphrase Ben Graham.
My plan was 63, ended up an 'accidental ER' at 49. History's kind winds(1993 - 2004) and a variety of 'lucky circumstances' have colored my view somewhat.
Being left handed INTJ - plan out the wazoo, with backups AND always, always replan when the serendipity of life arrives.
The central nugget of this forum for me - how to be a really cheap bastard on a day to day basis - so I can get wild and frivolous with MY Margin of Safety when the mood strikes.
Plan,plan plan, - budget, budget, budget!
Heh, heh, heh.
Mr._johngalt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
- Messages
- 4,801
Azanon and unclemick..............outstanding posts.
For azanon mostly, I am not really advocating my "no plan" approach to anyone. I just tell my story because it's interesting (at least the first time you hear it
)
and to show what can be accomplished just by "brainpower and willpower". BTW, regarding employment and employability, this was never much
of a concern in my entire life. Even before I became
a fully fledged entreporenuer, I always felt you could
set me down anywhere in the USA and I could make a
lot of money starting only with what was between my ears. (Job? We don't need no stiiiiiiiiiiinking job!)
I can't remember a time when I doubted that.
Also, re. making all that money and spending it all,
I had some help (my ex,) . But, truly, until the ER idea hit like a thunderbolt, I just assumed I would do what I was
doing indefinitely. Seems ridiculous now, but I'll bet
lots of folks don't figure it out until it's way to late to do
anything about it. These are the "die-at-your-deskers"
that C-T refers to.
For unclemick. Now that I am in ER, I agree with you:
"plan, plan, plan.......budget, budget, budget".
The planning I do now, big-time, but still no "real"
budget. I think you should do it. I am just too lazy.
Unclemick, you don't strike me as the "budget type"....
Do you really stick to one? Inquiring minds want to know
JG
For azanon mostly, I am not really advocating my "no plan" approach to anyone. I just tell my story because it's interesting (at least the first time you hear it
)and to show what can be accomplished just by "brainpower and willpower". BTW, regarding employment and employability, this was never much
of a concern in my entire life. Even before I became
a fully fledged entreporenuer, I always felt you could
set me down anywhere in the USA and I could make a
lot of money starting only with what was between my ears. (Job? We don't need no stiiiiiiiiiiinking job!)
I can't remember a time when I doubted that.
Also, re. making all that money and spending it all,
I had some help (my ex,)
. But, truly, until the ER idea hit like a thunderbolt, I just assumed I would do what I wasdoing indefinitely. Seems ridiculous now, but I'll bet
lots of folks don't figure it out until it's way to late to do
anything about it. These are the "die-at-your-deskers"
that C-T refers to.
For unclemick. Now that I am in ER, I agree with you:
"plan, plan, plan.......budget, budget, budget".
The planning I do now, big-time, but still no "real"
budget. I think you should do it. I am just too lazy.
Unclemick, you don't strike me as the "budget type"....
Do you really stick to one? Inquiring minds want to know
JG
I'll admit, i'm envious of anyone with this ability. I just dont have it. I'm sort of the book smart/good in school type, but I really struggle with people interations of the magnitute that it would take to make money on my own. I'd be too afraid to even try it anyway. I need a preestablished job, where my resume matches, and I have clear directions. Its a handicap I know, but I have to work within my limitations.
I'm an INTJ with spreadsheets and plans 'till Tuesday. But I'm also a 48-year-old late-starter with "only" $500K or so to my name. AND, I work part time for a company that just led the stock market into the tank and is talking "reorganization." (Translation: I'm at the top of the list to lose the job I've got, and in the wrong industry / too old to easily get another one that pays this much.)
So... I have a plan, but I've also studied JG's numbers and appreciate knowing that if my plan doesn't pan out I won't necessarily be living under a bridge somewhere. If the $2-million-plus folks were the only ones who posted here, I'd lose all hope and what little sanity I have left!
Caroline
I have a strong suspicion (and yes SG and GD-ER, no actual facts) that in the small town I grew up in there are a number of people, mostly men, who left the workforce with little, long before social security kicks in.
I think some just got sick of being laid off from the Peat plant, or too tired to work as a logger or in construction anymore. The may have had some savings, lived in a Minnesota Special (manufactured home on 40 acres, maybe with a cow and a few chickens), or in a little house they built themselves, bartered to meet a lot of their needs, and hung on until Social Security kicked in. Health insurance?
Who goes to a doctor anyway? Tough life.
I think some just got sick of being laid off from the Peat plant, or too tired to work as a logger or in construction anymore. The may have had some savings, lived in a Minnesota Special (manufactured home on 40 acres, maybe with a cow and a few chickens), or in a little house they built themselves, bartered to meet a lot of their needs, and hung on until Social Security kicked in. Health insurance?
Who goes to a doctor anyway? Tough life.
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
JG
Because of the fluckyness of life's events - we're spending 40% of taxable household income.
Any budget drawn up me - gets out voted 3 to 1 - "you can't take it with you." And the new one - so what if you hit a big one in the stock market - who's keeping score?
It will be interesting to see where expenses stabilize by the end of the year.
Because of the fluckyness of life's events - we're spending 40% of taxable household income.
Any budget drawn up me - gets out voted 3 to 1 - "you can't take it with you." And the new one - so what if you hit a big one in the stock market - who's keeping score?
It will be interesting to see where expenses stabilize by the end of the year.
So... I have a plan, but I've also studied JG's numbers and appreciate knowing that if my plan doesn't pan out I won't necessarily be living under a bridge somewhere. If the $2-million-plus folks were the only ones who posted here, I'd lose all hope and what little sanity I have left!
I agree completely.
I really respect the people that post here. Besides being "special" because they were able to retire early, many are "special" because they are high net worth people - even those that don't think they are.
I could work until I'm 70 and still not have the resources that some here have. Am I complaining no? Will I be able to sail around the Caribbean and taking multiple fishing trips a year? No. Do I enjoy hearing about everything that high net worth early retirees do? Absolutely! I love it! And even though I won't be able to do these things, the stories everyone shares is inspirational.
Some of us have a lower standard of living and are ok with that. Some of us will be perfectly happy having a "John Galt" retirement. Some people will be "over" cautious and work longer than they have to. I think there is value in hearing ALL early retirement stories. Only a moron would choose early retirement based solely on what they read on an internet chat board so I don't think we should worry about someone getting the "wrong idea" about early retirement if they read John's postings.
The concept I am thinking about is that the culture around us determines what is "normal". What is normal for a 6 year old--kindergarten; 12 year old--little league or some such; 18 year old -- boys drool/girls just like to have fun; 21 year old -get a job;
30 year old --get a promotion; 40 year old--pay those tuitions; 50 year old--grow that portfolio; 60 year old--spoil the grandkids; 65 year old -- the Golden Years -- er, strike that -- change of plan -- new rules -- BREAK'S OVER ! - BACK TO THE SALT MINE!
We all feel comfortable-- "normal"--fitting into the roles that society creates and expects of us. That need persists throughout life. At all those stages above and it will continue into retirement.
Fighting the need for conformity to norms/standards is a very difficult thing to do. If society creates a "norm" for retirement that entails working till we drop in some part time job to attain an acceptable standard of "keeping up with the retired Joneses" then I think most of us are going to comply. It goes beyond just consumerism and cash flow. It gets to a standard or "norm" of what constitutes a happy, sane existence. 'You don't work part time or volunteer? My, my how CAN you be happy, my dear?" If it is "normal" to work through retirement we will work. At least most of us will, and not just because we need the money. And it will be real tough not to. Hollywood and the TV will see to that.
What's the answer? Well , I think resources like this Board are important. I remember growing up in the 60s in a little town where there was not much to do for excitement. A few towns over there appeared a new phenomena in our little provincial part of the world -- a real live coffee house complete with that strangest of strange creatures --Beatniks! They were the avant garde back then--way out there for the "normal" types who went to work and paid the bills in our little community. They had long hair and beards. Wore berets and smoked something funny smelling. They had poetry readings on Friday and Saturday nights where they would play the bongo, snap their fingers, and talk that beat lingo -- Dig, daddio? Real Maynard G. Krebs stuff in the flesh. They were great curiosities and everyone was talking about the freaks over at the coffee house. Well, a funny thing happened. The coffee house started packing in the "normal" people on Friday and Saturday nights. Turn away crowds. Had to hire a doorman. Everybody had to go to just sit and stare and share the experience. Pretty funny sight --a couple of Beats on one side of the room snapping away and on the other side of the room table after table of middle aged couples in their suits and ties and go-to-dinner dresses sitting in dumbstruck, jaw dropped, awe at the sight of these strange beings . You'd have thought that the Martians had landed. Got pretty commercial in the end. The Beatniks moved on to historical lore and as it turned out they were only tame precursors of what was to come.
I think the folks on this Board are the Beatniks of Early Retirement. What is discussed here is pretty difficult to accomplish for most people, including me. But I think something funny is happening here, and hopefully other places as well. An alternate vision is being proposed. You guys are making the proposition that we don't have to live out the "norm" of retirement life that society -- Hollywood, TV, Government, Wall Street and Madison Avenue -- are in the process of concocting for us. You are causing a lot of us to re-examine that "norm". For us 9 to 5ers that is a dumbstruck, jaw dropped, awe inspiring kind of thing to contemplate. And that's a good thing, probably. How's it feel to be part of the avant garde?
So maybe, just maybe, a new, alternate "norm" is possible and is even now forming. Who knows? But, the Boomers, even those Beatniks, did change the norms of society once, for better or for worse. We will probably do it again as we begin to "do" retirement. Back to the salt mines as Hollywood, Wall Street, the Board of Directors of Wal Mart and the managers of Social Security would have us do? All these quizzes and assessments of the "magic number" for retirement and the consequent notion that we all have to work till we drop is built on the "norm" of retirement which "they" have in mind for us -- a consumption defined happy state of being, requiring unending labor to support, until the day we drop dead. Good to the last drop, so to speak. They are working hard through all the organs of mass communication, advertising and popular culture to push that vision of a proper retirement lifestyle on us. But, something tells me it ain't gonna happen. And that will have BIG, BIG consequences for American society.
P.S. I think if we got JG, Cut-Throat, Nords, Martha and a few of you other guys together wearing berets and snapping your fingers we could charge admission. Whadda ya think?
Donner
30 year old --get a promotion; 40 year old--pay those tuitions; 50 year old--grow that portfolio; 60 year old--spoil the grandkids; 65 year old -- the Golden Years -- er, strike that -- change of plan -- new rules -- BREAK'S OVER ! - BACK TO THE SALT MINE!
We all feel comfortable-- "normal"--fitting into the roles that society creates and expects of us. That need persists throughout life. At all those stages above and it will continue into retirement.
Fighting the need for conformity to norms/standards is a very difficult thing to do. If society creates a "norm" for retirement that entails working till we drop in some part time job to attain an acceptable standard of "keeping up with the retired Joneses" then I think most of us are going to comply. It goes beyond just consumerism and cash flow. It gets to a standard or "norm" of what constitutes a happy, sane existence. 'You don't work part time or volunteer? My, my how CAN you be happy, my dear?" If it is "normal" to work through retirement we will work. At least most of us will, and not just because we need the money. And it will be real tough not to. Hollywood and the TV will see to that.
What's the answer? Well , I think resources like this Board are important. I remember growing up in the 60s in a little town where there was not much to do for excitement. A few towns over there appeared a new phenomena in our little provincial part of the world -- a real live coffee house complete with that strangest of strange creatures --Beatniks! They were the avant garde back then--way out there for the "normal" types who went to work and paid the bills in our little community. They had long hair and beards. Wore berets and smoked something funny smelling. They had poetry readings on Friday and Saturday nights where they would play the bongo, snap their fingers, and talk that beat lingo -- Dig, daddio? Real Maynard G. Krebs stuff in the flesh. They were great curiosities and everyone was talking about the freaks over at the coffee house. Well, a funny thing happened. The coffee house started packing in the "normal" people on Friday and Saturday nights. Turn away crowds. Had to hire a doorman. Everybody had to go to just sit and stare and share the experience. Pretty funny sight --a couple of Beats on one side of the room snapping away and on the other side of the room table after table of middle aged couples in their suits and ties and go-to-dinner dresses sitting in dumbstruck, jaw dropped, awe at the sight of these strange beings . You'd have thought that the Martians had landed. Got pretty commercial in the end. The Beatniks moved on to historical lore and as it turned out they were only tame precursors of what was to come.
I think the folks on this Board are the Beatniks of Early Retirement. What is discussed here is pretty difficult to accomplish for most people, including me. But I think something funny is happening here, and hopefully other places as well. An alternate vision is being proposed. You guys are making the proposition that we don't have to live out the "norm" of retirement life that society -- Hollywood, TV, Government, Wall Street and Madison Avenue -- are in the process of concocting for us. You are causing a lot of us to re-examine that "norm". For us 9 to 5ers that is a dumbstruck, jaw dropped, awe inspiring kind of thing to contemplate. And that's a good thing, probably. How's it feel to be part of the avant garde?
So maybe, just maybe, a new, alternate "norm" is possible and is even now forming. Who knows? But, the Boomers, even those Beatniks, did change the norms of society once, for better or for worse. We will probably do it again as we begin to "do" retirement. Back to the salt mines as Hollywood, Wall Street, the Board of Directors of Wal Mart and the managers of Social Security would have us do? All these quizzes and assessments of the "magic number" for retirement and the consequent notion that we all have to work till we drop is built on the "norm" of retirement which "they" have in mind for us -- a consumption defined happy state of being, requiring unending labor to support, until the day we drop dead. Good to the last drop, so to speak. They are working hard through all the organs of mass communication, advertising and popular culture to push that vision of a proper retirement lifestyle on us. But, something tells me it ain't gonna happen. And that will have BIG, BIG consequences for American society.
P.S. I think if we got JG, Cut-Throat, Nords, Martha and a few of you other guys together wearing berets and snapping your fingers we could charge admission. Whadda ya think?
Donner
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
We are all a "BOER"? I can dig it!
REW
Mr._johngalt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
- Messages
- 4,801
Well, I do enjoy acronyms, even make them up.
Example "Arfie" (aging rural farm boy) as opposed to
"Yuppie".
Donner's soliloquy fits me pretty well. I recall an
argument with one of my in-laws. I was taking a lot
of heat and said, "Well, I kind of make up my own rules."
I thought later that might have been one of the truest
things I ever said. I like it...........gets me in a lot of
trouble though.
Re. budgets and briefly. I really think you need one
(esp. in ER) but my feeble attempts over the years
have been a failure, as far as producing any real
usable results. So now I just short cut it by watching my
net worth/income stream. Another aside. I have
become progressively more relaxed about our situation
as time passes by. Our "system" seems to be working
and the money doesn't need to last as long now.
JG
Example "Arfie" (aging rural farm boy) as opposed to
"Yuppie".
Donner's soliloquy fits me pretty well. I recall an
argument with one of my in-laws. I was taking a lot
of heat and said, "Well, I kind of make up my own rules."
I thought later that might have been one of the truest
things I ever said. I like it...........gets me in a lot of
trouble though.
Re. budgets and briefly. I really think you need one
(esp. in ER) but my feeble attempts over the years
have been a failure, as far as producing any real
usable results. So now I just short cut it by watching my
net worth/income stream. Another aside. I have
become progressively more relaxed about our situation
as time passes by. Our "system" seems to be working
and the money doesn't need to last as long now.
JG
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
You would have to cast a pretty wide net to cover the lifestyles of the ER's posting to this forum - politically correct doesn't cut it.
!!Blame it on the evil influance of independant, INTJ type thinking - even if you aren't INTJ, an engineer, or even left handed.
Yours truly
From da swamp.
heh, heh, heh
!!Blame it on the evil influance of independant, INTJ type thinking - even if you aren't INTJ, an engineer, or even left handed.
Yours truly
From da swamp.
heh, heh, heh
