Proposition: Early Retirement is Selfish

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donheff said:
Didn't anyone notice that CFB called Bongo the name-we-shall-not-speak thus automatically closing the thread?
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Dang - I missed the part about Kayak's.

heh heh heh - :cool: Saint's got creamed - I'm going to scare the piss out of my Sister when I tell her I cheering for the Pat's in the Superbowl.

Just a football Troll - but I can't resist. :D :rolleyes: :angel:. Immoral to the core and bad to the bone.
 
donheff said:
the name-we-shall-not-speak
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cute fuzzy bunny said:
Ha -

I think you're being very generous in attributing your excellent command of the english language to other people.
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"You use your tongue pertier than a Kansas City whore..." Blazing Saddles

lsbcal said:
I looked this up: mores - Wiktionary
and this: conflate - Wiktionary

Oh dear CFB, I think you are not cut out to be a househusband. Perhaps you should just go back to the hamster wheel?
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If you keep mentioning the "hamster", he might just take you up on that... :p

donheff said:
Didn't anyone notice that CFB called Bongo the name-we-shall-not-speak thus automatically closing the thread?
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Hosuc?

haha said:
By the way Bunny, no one uses more words [-]better[/-] than you do. :)

Ha
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cute fuzzy bunny said:
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, my eyessssssssssss...

cute fuzzy bunny said:
I should also point out at this time that Bongo2's name contains the word "Bong".
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Dang, beat me to it...
 
I think the bacon thread will get longer and be more interesting than this one.

Somehow, it still hasnt become controversial.

Imagine that...bacon less controversial than milk.
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
I think the bacon thread will get longer and be more interesting than this one.

Somehow, it still hasnt become controversial.

Imagine that...bacon less controversial than milk.
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Damn, CFB, that was an unfair post. I quit reading the bacon thread on the assumption that nothing more of interest could be said but now I will have to go back to see what I am missing. I don't have time for reading all this s***, I am retired.
 
Hey, I find the time to write all this stuff, the reading activity is pretty passive.

What? You want Clif notes?
 
I was thinking perhaps time to let this go, but since there are some thoughtful replies I’ll keep plodding along (against all mores and common sense). I can see how people get into this. Once you get used to all the insults it is kind of fun.

CFB: if you didn’t have me on “ignore” you would have seen a few posts ago that I chose the word “mores” because it does not mean “morals,” but something closer to “taboos.” Of course, since you’re ignoring me you won’t see this post either, and we’ll get to keep hearing about this perceived slight.

audreyh1: are you saying the work ethic is “the most ridiculous thing [you] have ever heard” and, rather, that all morals / mores / social obligations / etc. are codified into law:confused:

Purron: Thank you. I am very thankful for my blessings. I’m also very interested that some people are not feeling any stigma from being retired. From my own life and the threads that I’d linked early on I got the impression that pretty much everyone got a cool reception to their ER. Part of the issue is older ER at is very different from ER at 40. Perhaps part of the issue is also regional. In the Midwest the work ethic may be more firmly entrenched. And, of course, there are the kids. . .

donheff: “the above, where you equate earning an early retirement (concerned with self) with fraudulent disability (selfish as bad).” I’m using the term “selfish” to mean concerned excessively with self without regard for others – there is an implication of “badness,” but not a huge one. With the example you mention I was trying to separate the earning of the means to fund retirement, and the act of stopping work. If you don’t like Moe we can talk about Roe who finds $2m lying on the street or something.

“You have failed to show in any coherent way that ERs are truly having a negative impact on society” Do you disagree that work has a positive impact on society, or do you think that is irrelevant?

“when someone shows how earning a retirement, spending in ER, etc., can have positive impacts. . .” If I haven’t shown that retirement is negative, then surely no one has shown that retirement is positive! On spending, if you believe that spending is positive for society (which was FinanceDude’s point, not mine), then ERs spend less, right? So that’s not going to help. Do you think spending is bad for society? Some people definitely do, so we could talk about that, but I don’t get that impression from your posts. On savings, as I said I think saving for ER and taking it are distinct.

ladelfina: Most of what I’ve been saying can be summed up as three things: 1) there is social pressure for able bodied 45 yr olds to work, 2) that social pressure is reasonable, and 3) it is not all based on envy. That’s all, I’m not calling for any sort of enslavement! You want me to “name the entity” that obligates Joe (in my example) to work. There’s my mom of course. Beyond that, it would seem that most people do. According to Gallup “strong work ethics are alive and well in America.”

“skipping out on your kids child support to kick up your feet and buy a plasma TV is not exactly what’s promoted on this board.” I don’t know who runs the board to decide what’s promoted or not, but I find that view quite frequently here. As I said before, perhaps I read the wrong threads.

“If you are spiritually committed to Service, why chose to Serve Mammon?” I totally agree that people contribute in ways besides work. Just like “selfish” means more than just “self interested”, “retired” means more than just “withdrawn from one’s occupation.” “Retired” implies that you are no longer contributing. If ERs in general are great contributors in ways besides their old occupation, then I’m wrong. Looking around here, though, the comments of Bronson, and the “famous” ERs like the Terhorsts lead me to think I’m not.

You say that we can reject the work ethic because it is just a convention – but my point about conventions was that some are needed. The fact that we drive on the right side of the road is just a convention, but if I start driving on the left because I feel like it I’m going to smash into everybody. The fact that it’s a convention is not sufficient to dismiss it.

“If one takes away ER. . .then the only option left is indentured servitude. . .” No, I think the option is some social disapproval – like we have now. Interestingly, if you follow the logic on the “What if everyone ERd” thread started by Tick Tock, I think it’s more the opposite. If everyone ERd as soon as they were able, then many jobs would be forced to have massive golden handcuffs. You couldn’t very well have all your CEOs be the people left who couldn’t earn enough to retire. Executive positions would have to be low-paid with some massive bonus far off in the future.

“Your assumption is that ‘society’ NEEDS everything it produces.” “There are SOME people I would heartily WISH to ER” Sure we don’t need all this crap and not everyone is paid what they’re worth. But, as I said before, our system works better than anything else we’ve come up with.

We'll never over take "funny joke thursday," but we could get in the top five! And now. . .more funny animals!
 
bongo2 said:
audreyh1: are you saying the work ethic is “the most ridiculous thing [you] have ever heard” and, rather, that all morals / mores / social obligations / etc. are codified into law:confused:
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Yes, I think taking the work ethic to the extreme where it overrides an individual's right to self-determination and obligates an individual to work for someone else (do what someone else wants) for a considerable chunk of his/her time from ages 20 to 60 is indeed "the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard".

and,

yes, I think that when a given society feels overwhelmingly strongly enough about certain mores/morals/social obligations, it IS codified into law. Property rights, obligations to minor children, community property laws (which vary by state), driving on the right side of the road in the US, for examples.

Audrey

P.S. I feel absolutely no stigma from my early retirement, and did not receive a cool reception from our peers, friends or family as a result of our retiring. We were heartily congratulated (way to go!) and wished well.
 
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Wait......Society thinks I should be a slave all my life? O noes I better unretire!

One big problem with that. If we cared what society ie the sheeple thought, we would have never planned for ER in the first place.

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Oh Bongo, I saw your correction. I had to read some of your posts to make sense of the indignation that followed.

I didnt see your comment as a slight.

Just the second stupidest thing I'd ever heard.
 
Bongo, I retired at 39 and live in the midwest. I have had negative reactions from no one. As a matter of fact, everyone I have told has been happy for me.
As for your definition:
I’m using the term “selfish” to mean concerned excessively with self without regard for others
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I do have a high regard for others. I contribute to charities, make micro loans and volunteer. I also vacated a pretty darn nice job allowing someone else to take it. As I didn't need any more money and felt someone else could use the money more than I (no that wasn't the only reason I retired, but it is of more benifit to others:)).
I am sorry you know people that negatively react to the idea of early retirement. I don't believe that represents the majority of people, but rather the minority.
 
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Bongo,

I am truly fascinated by your percieved "stigma" about being FIRE'd. I have numerous friends (and parents) who FIRE'd - and no one has mentioned anything negative. Why in the world would one not freely admit they were retired? Shame for an exaulted status? Bah! You must be jealous - you cannot afford it because you did not save enough, inherit enough, or win the proverbial lottery. Obviously it does suck for you! May you hang your retired head in shame while being an unproductive member of society. Or just leave retired society and go back to w**K!

Fireup
Happily proud to be a friend and relative of numerous 30-60 year old FI RETIREES!
 
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