Where Do Young Retirees Live?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Along those lines, when I was working I was quite certain that given a period of time with nothing to do, that I'd go batty in short order.

My company demonstrated poor judgement in giving me a 3 month paid sabbatical after my first seven years of employment. I had never taken more than 2 weeks off from working since I was 14. And I only took two weeks once.

A month into it, I was firmly reminded of school summer vacations. Timewise, I turned into a human entropy machine. I started grinding my coffee beans every morning. I spent 2 hours sitting on the lawn with a beer pulling weeds instead of telling the lawn man to spray it the next time he came by. Four hours in a lawn chair at the lake with my feel in the water and a book in my hand. Whoops, the day is gone. Cant wait until tomorrow.

My next year at work, I never really got into it. The politics, the tomfoolery, the stress and wasted motion. It all seemed foolish to me.

The decision was tough, but I figured "I can always go back to work...".

A place where everyone is early retired and lots of things to do are organized...sort of a Sun City for a wide variety of ages? Summer camp for the able bodied and underemployed? I might consider moving to such a place, but I'd bet you'd only need a couple of them. Set them up in inexpensive areas, set up systems to reduce costs through mass influence and purchasing, pooled investment research and advice...perhaps even pooled investing to reduce risks?

Possibly more fun than we should be allowed to have...

 

[Hyperborea]

A place where everyone is early retired and lots of things to do are organized...sort of a Sun City for a wide variety of ages?  Summer camp for the able bodied and underemployed?

I don't think that most of those who retire really early (i.e. sub-50) would be interested. Most of them likely have no need of someone else to impose order on their lives. One of the big reasons to FIRE is to get out and have the time to order one's own life. I think that the big attraction of these types of communities is for the forcibly retired who need a "manager" to tell them what to do and when.

 

[renferme]

Bob Smith,
I , too, am left handed and I couldn't have said it any better than you just did !
Being in the world of IT, my non-work life is extremely inhibited by being on-call 24X7X365, constantly carrying a pager and cell phone and fixing problems in the middle of the night. After about 35 years of working, I've had enough.
About 12 years ago, it seemed that our jobs here were not as 'guaranteed' as they had been before. That was a wake up call to begin pumping as much money as possible into the 401k and other investments. I was able to do that dispite an awful divorce. Fortunately the kids were out of college. The divorce forced me to downsize my life and that gave the opportunity to save/invest more.
There are so many people that wonder what I'm going to do when my retirement hits in about a month.
I'll be golfing, house and yard work, relaxing, and reducing stress while they continue with the grind of work.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I don't think that most of those who retire really early (i.e. sub-50) would be interested. Most of them likely have no need of someone else to impose order on their lives. One of the big reasons to FIRE is to get out and have the time to order one's own life. I think that the big attraction of these types of communities is for the forcibly retired who need a "manager" to tell them what to do and when.

I wasnt thinking of a structured situation, more of an opportunity one. Ever been to a club med? You can walk around to sailing, diving, archery, painting, pottery, etc locations...just do it or get instruction from a waiting expert if you dont know how. Or just sit on the beach. Even the sun city setup isnt a managed one. You go to the club house, theres a couple of pools, an exercise room, a billiards room, library, big screen tv room, and about 30 "classes" in everything from dance to art to computers going on. *I* almost wanted to live there...

 

[Workwayless]

Few are capable of the very early retirements of under 50 (or under 40) that get discussed - John Greany, the Terhorsts, hopefully Hyperborea, etc.

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage. It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

So then I started thinking that maybe this dryer sheet flag is a good thing. Everyone who is ER'ed should make an official ER flag and fly it proudly in front of their home. That way, we could see how many people in our neighborhoods are ERs.

If we all flew the same flag we'd probably get noticed and then be labeled as a terrorist cell attacking the American way of life (consumption & debt for many).

I think it was intercst who observed that the reason INTJ's and INTP's aren't a large percentage of the population is that they end up in jail in other countries for refusing to conform.

I suspect that ER-minded people tend to naturally find each other through frugality, travel and search of ER-appropriate investments.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Who said you have to go to another country?

 

[unclemick]

Worst yet I think some states(Florida?) are looking at ways to creatively tax retirement portfolios. Retirement property tax anyone?

 

[John Galt]

Hey Big Money Jim! I have rarely conformed to anyone's
rules in my whole life (60 years). In fact, as I've grown older, I've gotten farther outside of the "norm" and
am quite happy to be here. Has this gotten me in trouble? You bet, but..............I wouldn't change a thing.

John Galt

 

[unclemick]

Left handed, INTJ, ER, - some things are best when flown before below the radar. For instance clothes lines can be spotted by satelite but recyled dryer sheets are much harder to detect.

 

[Hyperborea]

I wasnt thinking of a structured situation, more of an opportunity one.  Ever been to a club med?  You can walk around to sailing, diving, archery, painting, pottery, etc locations...just do it or get instruction from a waiting expert if you dont know how.  Or just sit on the beach.

It might be a good situation for some. I've actually never been to Club Med (or any of the clones). I much prefer to travel my own way and figure things out - explore things and make my own discoveries. Again, I wonder if most FIREees aren't too independent to want a situation like that. I could maybe stand a week of it but much more than that would drive me buggy.

The cost would also be something that would severely limit the number of potential residents. The pool of very early retirees is already small enough and then you would need those with maybe $2M plus to afford to live in the Club Med retirement home for the middle aged.

 

[Hyperborea]

on 19.03.04 at 11:39:34, Hyperborea wrote:
Few are capable of the very early retirements of under 50 (or under 40) that get discussed - John Greany, the Terhorsts, hopefully Hyperborea, etc.

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage.  It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority.

Yeah, I'm not doubting that it can be done only that few ever do it. I'm going to be able to get there by maybe 46 if things work out at our low end estimate (though it's not the lowest doom and gloom estimate). I could make it sooner if I was willing to head off with a lower bag of loot but it would mean scaling back retirement to a point that wouldn't be as much fun. To do so would shave off up to 3 years but I'm reasonably positive that I can both hold on to my job and sanity for that extra 3 years.

As you say, the other biggie is when did I really start planning for FIRE. It wasn't as early as some - mid-30's. What's made it possible to happen so quickly from that point is the fact that I do make a good income and I was saving at a reasonable default level before that point (max 401k + wife's IRA + ESPP). Since then we've ramped up the after tax investments a lot. In my case it's more a savings exercise than an investment exercise. I'm planning on very low rates of return from now until FIRE. If I get better it will likely only shave off one to two years. The average 'joe' is going to require a longer period of time since they have a smaller amount of disposable income and their FIRE plan is more of an investment exercise.

 

[ESRBob]

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage.  It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority. Yeah, I'm not doubting that it can be done only that few ever do it.  

I went ER at 42, (4 years ago) but had been planning it since I read Terhorst in 1988, which would be for about 13 years. The biggest things we did differently from our peers were: 1) save like crazy (we were expats in Japan when everybody spent all their money and we lived off my wife's income and saved 100% of mine) and 2) as soon as the pieces lined up, I started my own companies, consciously taking on lots of sweat and risk to make the $ come in faster, albeit with more risk- something Terhorst recommends.

Come to think of it, I got mentally started even sooner -- in my 20's, because I saved proportionally a lot then after reading all the IRA propaganda telling you how much greater the value of savings compounded if you started in your 20's, so I had the idea that I had to hustle really hard early in my career and then Terhorst came along when I was about 30 to tell me how I wouldn't have to keep doing that forever-- which was a huge relief.

We have kids so it can be done, but generous grandparents help when it comes to their college savings!

I do think the Meyers Briggs "I" is the most important factor -- being internally motivated means you figure stuff out for yourself and build a system that keeps you going a long time on your own agenda, as opposed to letting too many outside temptations pull you around. It really takes a lot of years of focus and planning to get a real early ER (unless you inherit a whole bunch of $!).
Both my brothers are essentially ER, too-- one in his late 30s rehabbed SF real estate and then moved to the woods to home-school their kids and live cheap while engineering new technologies in his shop (like building an electric-powered VW bug) -- the other a commercial pilot who stays on call and flies once a month to Tokyo.

So maybe there is something in the engineering mentality that lends itself to ER, and maybe it is in the way your parents raise you -- to think independently, not buy too many expensive status symbols, and save $. Our dad was also self-employed which might be a factor -- we never grew up with "Company Man" values in our house.

My advice to younger people on this board contemplating ER is save like crazy, take prudent private company investment risks to build your capital (either as an involved investor or as a company founder, or maybe as a part-time real estate rehabber if you like that sort of thing), and stick with the vision. Also, I still do some part-time consulting work to help make ends meet which is a nice compromise financially and helps me keep my brain fresh.

 

[ESRBob]

We currently live near Seattle, and are planning our ER.  We would like to find somewhere with better weather and a lower cost of living, especially real estate.  We also would like to find a spot where there are plenty of younger retirees.  We are not nearly ready for the "active adult" communities.

Does anyone have any proven strategies for identifying such a place?

Thanks.

I think you won't get a proven strategy, and as for where to live, I think ER's are so independent you'll find them anywhere, and you should just look for someplace you like. probably rural if you need to keep your expenses down or like country, and probably coastal since you are in Seattle now and would probably want the more liberal 'creative class' environment you take for granted now. good schools are key if you are going to have a family, and that tends to keep people from moving into really cheap areas, so that is a dilemma until the kids are grown or unless you homeshchool (my brother and his wife ER'd in their late 30's in Mt Shasta, CA and homeschool). Community matters a lot in ER since you have so much time to get involved, and you should find a community you like. for that reason, depending on statistics too heavily isn't going to work -- how can you statistically describe the redwood forests or the local coffee shop where you are going to feel community. but you'll know it as soon as you feel it. just go on a long vacation and drive to all these places while evolving a sense of what you are looking for with your spouse/family. probably the one thing you can statistically analyze is school scores and real estate prices, but a nice big house in the wrong community is not a better deal for you than an expensive little house in the right community, even if the big house is cheaper. A lot of people on this board might disagree with me on the importance of location and community, but i think it is really important -- you can get cheap housing all over the world, but you are doing ER in order to have a great life, not just survive financially without working. There are some very cool huts on beaches in Thailand where you can live really cheaply if that is all you are looking for. Or a little ranch house in the middle of the US somewhere. The only key is: what works for you personally? Schools, espresso, DSL lines, how is a Seattle guy going to live without the essentials? 8)

 

[John Galt]

We like where our main residence is located, except
for the weather and Illinois politics. I posted under another thread about a neighbor who just listed
their place for sale. Today, I learned of another place for sale
about 100 yards down stream. Are you ready?

Here it is:

Fisherman's Get away, move in condition. Beautiful views from large deck and sun room, 4 bedrooms, ample storage, furnished and yard equipment included.
12 X 6 storage building and two (2) lots across the
road (off the water) included.. $98,900.

I am not making this stuff up. And, for Illinois, this
is a beautiful area. I've been all over the state.

John Galt

 

[nayslayer99]

Has anyone here ever considered Panama for ER. My wife and I along with some friends are looking into this for our next move. We are also considering just staying here in the U.S. Probably somewhere in the Northwest like Portland, OR or Seattle, Wa. Any thoughts on this?

 

[John Galt]

I know nothing about Panama (except there is a canal there). I do know a bit about the Portland area, as I
have been there and both my son and brother lived there in the 80s and 90s. My son was in Eugene, Ore.
and my brother in Portland. Both liked the area very much and in fact my brother opined that if he ever made another long distance relocation, he would like to return.
The area would not work for us as we prefer warmer climes. It's pretty country though.

John Galt

 

[johnblake]

I don't think that there are any proven strategies that could work for making this decision.

Have you considered Bend Oregon? The weather is much better than Seattle, and there is good skiing, golfing, and other outdoor activities. The cost of living is still reasonable (relative to Seattle), but it's quite a drive to the ocean.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Here is what we plan on doing. (No Kids) We WERE also SoCAL workers till we E'retired last year at 50 and 45 respectively. We have a friend with a large boat, and spend the winters with him in the Caribbean sailing about. This summer it is Toronto Canada, with the Family. Next summer it will be Cruising to the Med on our friends boat.

We are Canadian AND US Citizens.

You can get a small apartment in St. Maarten in the Caribbean for 700 Euros all inclusive of utilities etc all except phone. So we may spend a few months there.

We plan on settling in Western Canada some place, probably Kelowna or Vancouver Island (Still not decided). Probably purchase a small home there for the summers.

We intend on exploring Jacksonville, Florida. Anyone live there

SWR

 

[JonnyM]

As someone who did it I can tell you that very early retireement is not an urban legand. Yes, it's true that not everyone can make this choice however there are plenty of people who can especially if they are childless, healthy and either have a job that provides an early pension and/or pays a good wage. It's just a matter of when you find out about ER and whether or not you decide to make it a priority.

Bullseye. I'm still 2-3 years away but completely on track for FIRE in the hole.

It was a matter of waking up one day and having that epiphany. "yes we (wife and I) can do this" .

We had both just got out of extreme debt from previous relationships (worth every penny or should I say c-note) and realized that at 43, we could likely pull the plug at 50 with a small DBP w/Cola, plus whatever we could save in the 7 year plan. We're 6 years in, DW had to DR after injury recently, hence I'm adapting by staying on either 1 or 2 extra years to beef up the nest egg portion.

We both fit the Tech Job demographic, and both live in CA. Although we plan to take our DBP dollars to somewhere more depressed where our money will go farther. Olympic Rain Forrest in WA looks promising. We love rain.

My Worst Case Secenerio is 52 with tons of padding in my Calc. I work in a large building with about 1000 other souls, many of whom are becoming aware of my Church of the Early Retirement. My simple Excel file that provides a plug in formula for our County's retirement formula is proving to be quite popular. Maybe I'll do seminars, wink, wink, nudge nudge, KWIM.

 

[TVALENT]

We intend on exploring Jacksonville, Florida. Anyone live there

SWR

ER at 40. I bought my 'investment' property in the Jacksonville, FL- Julingcreek area in Jan 2003 for 139K. Recently, the property next door was listed for 189K and a 'SOLD' sign went up within 2 weeks. St Johns county is the most desirable in terms of real estate appreciation due to highly-rated schools and communities. If you have big bucks (1.5M-2M+), check out the Ponte Vedra Beach area since that is one beautiful residential non commercial stretch of land in Florida that you can find anywhere in the East coast. If not, look for properties in the rural-turning-into-urban developments that seem to be appreciated fairly well.
I've never liked hot weather, but love the beach so it was a trade off to settle down and wait it out for the 2+ years tax free appreciation (hopefully, the value will hold). I plan to move to cooler climate ie. Washington -Vancouver or Olympia (monitoring a real estate burst )
TV

 

[nayslayer99]

Thanks for the replies John and John. I'll have to research Bend, OR more. Now it's sounding more and more like we will just move to the NW instead of Panama. None of us really wants to leave our homeland.

 

[Beachbumz]

Shockwave,
I have not looked at this sight for a while. We have been in St. Martin . We have friends that FIREd to St. Augustine, Fl, just south of Jacksonville and it is very nice, not congested like Jville, but close enough to it. We live in Cocoa Beach, Fl and love it.

Oh, and PLEASE don't tell anyone esle about St. Martin

The beachbum