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Why Everyone Here Made a Mistake
03-15-2012, 01:39 PM
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#1
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,375
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Why Everyone Here Made a Mistake
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03-15-2012, 01:48 PM
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#2
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 643
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I picture a panel of corporate CEO's putting their heads together to produce something like this.
1. There is no physical reason to retire. [there is also no physical reason not to... exercise actually beats sitting at a desk]
2. Continued work can support healthy aging, including better physical and mental health. [mental health,I can buy (though keeping yourself engaged in challenging, non-routine activities will solve that); physical was addressed in #1]
3. Well-being and happiness are boosted when people are engaged in challenging and meaningful activities. Work is a major place to find such activities in our society. [looks like I beat them to the punch again... see #2]
4. Older people have rich experience and mentoring skills to help enrich the workplace experiences of younger colleagues. [how does this help the retired person... sounds like it helps the company and younger employee]
5. Declining numbers of younger workers, courtesy of lower fertility rates, will raise the need to retain older employees in the workforce. [again, how does this help the retired individual... sounds more like a ploy from the company to get something more out of us... reduced young working population and an increased older one actually means lower salaries towards the end of the career... more incentive to get out as quickly as possible]
6. We need and like the money, and shorter retirements sharply cut the risk we will outlive our assets. [not if you did your math, and planned accordingly. In fact, one could strive to achieve a retirement account that actually pays them more than their work does... it is possible]
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03-15-2012, 01:49 PM
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#3
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
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I believe if you read the comments, you'll find that most folks think the article is bunk ...
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03-15-2012, 01:53 PM
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#4
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,518
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Perhaps gerntz would be so kind as to add a short summary of the article so it isn't a naked link.
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03-15-2012, 02:03 PM
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#5
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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The "6 reasons why you should never retire", presented in order (boldfaced, with my commentary in light-type):
1. There is no physical reason to retire.
If your job is stressful and we know stress negatively impacts health and physical well-being, then BZZZZZZZZZZZT. When people at my work are being unreasonable and demanding and corporate BS reaches a fever pitch, I can FEEL pains in my abdomen that go away shortly after I walk away and stop thinking about work. Tell me that's no physical reason to want out.
Also (see response to #2), if your job has you so damn busy that you can't get the exercise you want, again, that's a strong "physical" reason to retire.
2. Continued work can support healthy aging, including better physical and mental health.
Sure, if you like your j*b. If you don't, it just adds stress to your life which, again, how does that improve health? Also, this point apparently assumes the stereotype that once you retire, you'll just sit on your @$$ and get fat and out of shape all day. Many people actually find MORE time to exercise in retirement because they don't have a hard-@$$ boss pushing 60 hour work weeks on them.
3. Well-being and happiness are boosted when people are engaged in challenging and meaningful activities. Work is a major place to find such activities in our society.
How about volunteer work? Doing things in the community? Going to a church (if that's your thing)? Taking up a hobby that has local get-togethers? These are all things where you can find meaning, choose what you are passionate about (and for most of us, that ain't work), continue to rebuild a support network AND having opportunities for social interaction.
I would get a hell of lot more "well being and happiness" volunteering at our library or at our schools, or the food bank, or working in our church to run fundraisers for charity, then I will EVER get writing more TPS reports for corporate executives.
And let's not forget that some people are happier as hermits, or at least as introverts who would normally prefer quiet days at home. Just as these people always assume "retired = lazy, fat slobs", they seem to assume "retired = socially and mentally deprived." What a load of BS.
4. Older people have rich experience and mentoring skills to help enrich the workplace experiences of younger colleagues.
Sure, when age discrimination isn't pushing them out the door, and when these "younger colleagues" don't think they already know everything and want nothing to do with being told "how to do their job." Still, depending on how you roll, this *could* be something people find rewarding. The point is overrated, though, as there are plenty of opportunities to mentor younger people (from school age to young adult) in other areas outside of a job.
5. Declining numbers of younger workers, courtesy of lower fertility rates, will raise the need to retain older employees in the workforce.
Let's cross that bridge when we get there, shall we? In the meantime, the problem is that not enough older workers *can* retire, not that too many of them are. Haven't these people seen the unemployment numbers?
6. We need and like the money, and shorter retirements sharply cut the risk we will outlive our assets.
We need and like *some* money. We need and like *enough* money. We don't want to outlive our assets, of course. But we tend to be conservative planners. We use tools like FIRECalc and don't pull the trigger unless we have high confidence. Beyond a certain level of financial security and independence, I'll take more free time and less job stress over more money every time. I just wish I already was at that point so I could choose more time and less job stress.
What a bunch of twaddle. I still fail to see why, in a job market that needs MORE people to be able to retire, not less, they still insist on trying to talk people OUT of retirement. The only thing that makes sense is that these are written by corporate types who have a vested interest in keeping unemployment very high so they can continue to hold the big advantage in negotiating with job seekers. Nothing else makes sense to me.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-15-2012, 02:46 PM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cville
Posts: 1,597
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I guess if I had a job like Warren Buffett where I was appreciated and loved what I did then these 6 reasons wouldn't matter any more than they do now. My #1 reason is to gain time to do other things. Maybe some retire to rock on the porch all day but many don't. Sorry forgot who I'm talking to. Maybe those who didn't save for RE need this kinda slop. :-)
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03-15-2012, 02:49 PM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,555
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1 through 3: travelling the country, hiking and riding my bike, reducing my stress levels will negate these 'arguments'.
4 and 5: not my problem and of no possible benefit to me.
6. Then let the ones who didn't plan sufficiently for retirement deal with 4 and 5. Although, it's probably the ones who DID plan properly one would want as a mentor.
Sorry - age 57 and I'm out of there!
__________________
"Growing old is no excuse for growing up."
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03-15-2012, 03:05 PM
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#8
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ...that depends...
Posts: 54
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Sounds like the Op should also add:
Delay Taking SS - until you die. That away you will get a higher monthly amount (if you were still alive)...
and it will help the rest of us...
__________________
It is the journey!
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03-15-2012, 03:18 PM
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#9
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,679
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Ziggy pretty much wrote what I would have written in response to the article.
The only things I would add are these:
(a) My long and awful commute added considerable stress to my life, so eliminating that aided me physically and mentally.
(b) At my former company (and I am sure this applies to most professions), any time we lost someone of any age who had some special knowledge of the job, others had to step in and pick up the slack. It did not matter if the person left because he died, was retiring, or simply leaving our company to work elsewhere. It did not matter if the person was young or old, we still felt a loss to some degree.
(c) Similar to (b), with my new volunteer activities and resurrected hobbies I am able to build new skills I can mentor to others in those areas, so what my old company lost when I ERed in 2008 there are others who gain from my presence.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.
"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
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03-15-2012, 03:25 PM
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#10
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,467
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In my opinion, articles like this seek to exploit the very natural fear of the unknown that many people feel. Retirement is a huge change, and most of us work so hard up until retirement that the experience of retirement is largely unknown to us. We have to have the courage to jump in and experience it before it is known to us. Even I (who used to be "Want2Retire") had some moments of fear, not knowing what it might be like.
Now that I have been retired for over two years, I just wish I had been able to pull it off earlier. That's my response to the article. I feel like my life began when I retired. My physical* and mental** well-being have improved, and I have never been happier.
Thanks to those who amplified on the "naked link" for us and to MichaelB for patiently and pleasantly pointing out again that naked links are not appropriate. As the Community Rules state,
Quote:
Please do not post “naked” links, defined as links posted without explanation, interpretation or context.
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* We go to the gym regularly, which was very difficult to manage in addition to so many other duties when working. I had not been physically active since high school, and love this new aspect of my life.
**Although writing proposals (or RFPs) entails some creativity and challenge, even scientific research (or oversight) can include months of mind-numbingly routine work afterwards, or else overseeing the work of an assistant. Retirement allows me to seek a better balance of mental challenge and routine mental tasks.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-15-2012, 03:44 PM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,000
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Doesn't straddling that fence all the time make your crotch sore?
__________________
Numbers is hard
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03-15-2012, 03:48 PM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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And sometimes, beating dead horses is therapeutic...
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-15-2012, 03:49 PM
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#13
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,148
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Sorry, don't know what came over me. We should actively seek out other POVs and prove they're wrong because we say so. Anyone who doesn't retire at the first opportunity must be daft...
Peace...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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03-15-2012, 03:52 PM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Sorry, don't know what came over me. We should actively seek out other POVs and prove they're wrong because we say so...
Peace...
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Over on the Never-Retire.org forum they are having a love-fest with this article.
__________________
Numbers is hard
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03-15-2012, 03:54 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,148
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I wonder if they feel the frequent need to prove we're wrong? I don't know, I've never looked or cared, to each his/her own.
Peace...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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03-15-2012, 03:57 PM
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#16
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Palma de Mallorca
Posts: 1,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seraphim
4 and 5: not my problem and of no possible benefit to me.
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Agreed. #5 might be important if I lived in a kibbutz, or thought I did. Otherwise, it's just random moralising.
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03-15-2012, 04:01 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
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This board has a simple purpose-collecting eyeballs, who justify higher ad rates. If not the absolute most popular category of thread, this type is right up there. Throw a helpless piggie out in the arena, let him run around and show how fat and easily slaughtered he is, and count on the membership to destroy him completely. After all, the judges are also drawn from the same population as are the lions, so the outcome is guaranteed to be edifying, and thus very helpful for business.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
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03-15-2012, 04:59 PM
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#18
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: near Canadian border and near Mexican border
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
And sometimes, beating dead horses is therapeutic...
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It also tenderizes the meat and makes it easier to swallow.
__________________
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
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03-15-2012, 05:31 PM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Ah, talk about horse meat reminded me of a recent thread, where I recounted my failed effort when vacationing in Switzerland and trying to make a day trip down to Northern Italy to try a regional dish: donkey stew.
Just recently looked up on the Web, and what do I know? Horse meat is also so popular there that they even have jars of baby food with it.
Now, it makes me even more curious. Might have to make a special trip just to sample some equine dishes.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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03-15-2012, 10:25 PM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
This board has a simple purpose-collecting eyeballs, who justify higher ad rates. If not the absolute most popular category of thread, this type is right up there. Throw a helpless piggie out in the arena, let him run around and show how fat and easily slaughtered he is, and count on the membership to destroy him completely. After all, the judges are also drawn from the same population as are the lions, so the outcome is guaranteed to be edifying, and thus very helpful for business.
Ha
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So, we got shills on this board?
__________________
I have outlived most of the people I don't like and I am working on the rest.
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