Why Everyone Here Made a Mistake
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EvrClrx311
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I picture a panel of corporate CEO's putting their heads together to produce something like this. 
1. There is no physical reason to retire. [there is also no physical reason not to... exercise actually beats sitting at a desk]
2. Continued work can support healthy aging, including better physical and mental health. [mental health,I can buy (though keeping yourself engaged in challenging, non-routine activities will solve that); physical was addressed in #1]
3. Well-being and happiness are boosted when people are engaged in challenging and meaningful activities. Work is a major place to find such activities in our society. [looks like I beat them to the punch again... see #2]
4. Older people have rich experience and mentoring skills to help enrich the workplace experiences of younger colleagues. [how does this help the retired person... sounds like it helps the company and younger employee]
5. Declining numbers of younger workers, courtesy of lower fertility rates, will raise the need to retain older employees in the workforce. [again, how does this help the retired individual... sounds more like a ploy from the company to get something more out of us... reduced young working population and an increased older one actually means lower salaries towards the end of the career... more incentive to get out as quickly as possible]
6. We need and like the money, and shorter retirements sharply cut the risk we will outlive our assets. [not if you did your math, and planned accordingly. In fact, one could strive to achieve a retirement account that actually pays them more than their work does... it is possible]
1. There is no physical reason to retire. [there is also no physical reason not to... exercise actually beats sitting at a desk]
2. Continued work can support healthy aging, including better physical and mental health. [mental health,I can buy (though keeping yourself engaged in challenging, non-routine activities will solve that); physical was addressed in #1]
3. Well-being and happiness are boosted when people are engaged in challenging and meaningful activities. Work is a major place to find such activities in our society. [looks like I beat them to the punch again... see #2]
4. Older people have rich experience and mentoring skills to help enrich the workplace experiences of younger colleagues. [how does this help the retired person... sounds like it helps the company and younger employee]
5. Declining numbers of younger workers, courtesy of lower fertility rates, will raise the need to retain older employees in the workforce. [again, how does this help the retired individual... sounds more like a ploy from the company to get something more out of us... reduced young working population and an increased older one actually means lower salaries towards the end of the career... more incentive to get out as quickly as possible]
6. We need and like the money, and shorter retirements sharply cut the risk we will outlive our assets. [not if you did your math, and planned accordingly. In fact, one could strive to achieve a retirement account that actually pays them more than their work does... it is possible]
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rescueme
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I believe if you read the comments, you'll find that most folks think the article is bunk ...
...
Perhaps gerntz would be so kind as to add a short summary of the article so it isn't a naked link.
ziggy29
Moderator Emeritus
The "6 reasons why you should never retire", presented in order (boldfaced, with my commentary in light-type):
1. There is no physical reason to retire.
If your job is stressful and we know stress negatively impacts health and physical well-being, then BZZZZZZZZZZZT. When people at my work are being unreasonable and demanding and corporate BS reaches a fever pitch, I can FEEL pains in my abdomen that go away shortly after I walk away and stop thinking about work. Tell me that's no physical reason to want out.
Also (see response to #2), if your job has you so damn busy that you can't get the exercise you want, again, that's a strong "physical" reason to retire.
2. Continued work can support healthy aging, including better physical and mental health.
Sure, if you like your j*b. If you don't, it just adds stress to your life which, again, how does that improve health? Also, this point apparently assumes the stereotype that once you retire, you'll just sit on your @$$ and get fat and out of shape all day. Many people actually find MORE time to exercise in retirement because they don't have a hard-@$$ boss pushing 60 hour work weeks on them.
3. Well-being and happiness are boosted when people are engaged in challenging and meaningful activities. Work is a major place to find such activities in our society.
How about volunteer work? Doing things in the community? Going to a church (if that's your thing)? Taking up a hobby that has local get-togethers? These are all things where you can find meaning, choose what you are passionate about (and for most of us, that ain't work), continue to rebuild a support network AND having opportunities for social interaction.
I would get a hell of lot more "well being and happiness" volunteering at our library or at our schools, or the food bank, or working in our church to run fundraisers for charity, then I will EVER get writing more TPS reports for corporate executives.
And let's not forget that some people are happier as hermits, or at least as introverts who would normally prefer quiet days at home. Just as these people always assume "retired = lazy, fat slobs", they seem to assume "retired = socially and mentally deprived." What a load of BS.
4. Older people have rich experience and mentoring skills to help enrich the workplace experiences of younger colleagues.
Sure, when age discrimination isn't pushing them out the door, and when these "younger colleagues" don't think they already know everything and want nothing to do with being told "how to do their job." Still, depending on how you roll, this *could* be something people find rewarding. The point is overrated, though, as there are plenty of opportunities to mentor younger people (from school age to young adult) in other areas outside of a job.
5. Declining numbers of younger workers, courtesy of lower fertility rates, will raise the need to retain older employees in the workforce.
Let's cross that bridge when we get there, shall we? In the meantime, the problem is that not enough older workers *can* retire, not that too many of them are. Haven't these people seen the unemployment numbers?
6. We need and like the money, and shorter retirements sharply cut the risk we will outlive our assets.
We need and like *some* money. We need and like *enough* money. We don't want to outlive our assets, of course. But we tend to be conservative planners. We use tools like FIRECalc and don't pull the trigger unless we have high confidence. Beyond a certain level of financial security and independence, I'll take more free time and less job stress over more money every time. I just wish I already was at that point so I could choose more time and less job stress.
What a bunch of twaddle. I still fail to see why, in a job market that needs MORE people to be able to retire, not less, they still insist on trying to talk people OUT of retirement. The only thing that makes sense is that these are written by corporate types who have a vested interest in keeping unemployment very high so they can continue to hold the big advantage in negotiating with job seekers. Nothing else makes sense to me.
1. There is no physical reason to retire.
If your job is stressful and we know stress negatively impacts health and physical well-being, then BZZZZZZZZZZZT. When people at my work are being unreasonable and demanding and corporate BS reaches a fever pitch, I can FEEL pains in my abdomen that go away shortly after I walk away and stop thinking about work. Tell me that's no physical reason to want out.
Also (see response to #2), if your job has you so damn busy that you can't get the exercise you want, again, that's a strong "physical" reason to retire.
2. Continued work can support healthy aging, including better physical and mental health.
Sure, if you like your j*b. If you don't, it just adds stress to your life which, again, how does that improve health? Also, this point apparently assumes the stereotype that once you retire, you'll just sit on your @$$ and get fat and out of shape all day. Many people actually find MORE time to exercise in retirement because they don't have a hard-@$$ boss pushing 60 hour work weeks on them.
3. Well-being and happiness are boosted when people are engaged in challenging and meaningful activities. Work is a major place to find such activities in our society.
How about volunteer work? Doing things in the community? Going to a church (if that's your thing)? Taking up a hobby that has local get-togethers? These are all things where you can find meaning, choose what you are passionate about (and for most of us, that ain't work), continue to rebuild a support network AND having opportunities for social interaction.
I would get a hell of lot more "well being and happiness" volunteering at our library or at our schools, or the food bank, or working in our church to run fundraisers for charity, then I will EVER get writing more TPS reports for corporate executives.
And let's not forget that some people are happier as hermits, or at least as introverts who would normally prefer quiet days at home. Just as these people always assume "retired = lazy, fat slobs", they seem to assume "retired = socially and mentally deprived." What a load of BS.
4. Older people have rich experience and mentoring skills to help enrich the workplace experiences of younger colleagues.
Sure, when age discrimination isn't pushing them out the door, and when these "younger colleagues" don't think they already know everything and want nothing to do with being told "how to do their job." Still, depending on how you roll, this *could* be something people find rewarding. The point is overrated, though, as there are plenty of opportunities to mentor younger people (from school age to young adult) in other areas outside of a job.
5. Declining numbers of younger workers, courtesy of lower fertility rates, will raise the need to retain older employees in the workforce.
Let's cross that bridge when we get there, shall we? In the meantime, the problem is that not enough older workers *can* retire, not that too many of them are. Haven't these people seen the unemployment numbers?
6. We need and like the money, and shorter retirements sharply cut the risk we will outlive our assets.
We need and like *some* money. We need and like *enough* money. We don't want to outlive our assets, of course. But we tend to be conservative planners. We use tools like FIRECalc and don't pull the trigger unless we have high confidence. Beyond a certain level of financial security and independence, I'll take more free time and less job stress over more money every time. I just wish I already was at that point so I could choose more time and less job stress.
What a bunch of twaddle. I still fail to see why, in a job market that needs MORE people to be able to retire, not less, they still insist on trying to talk people OUT of retirement. The only thing that makes sense is that these are written by corporate types who have a vested interest in keeping unemployment very high so they can continue to hold the big advantage in negotiating with job seekers. Nothing else makes sense to me.
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RetireBy90
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I guess if I had a job like Warren Buffett where I was appreciated and loved what I did then these 6 reasons wouldn't matter any more than they do now. My #1 reason is to gain time to do other things. Maybe some retire to rock on the porch all day but many don't. Sorry forgot who I'm talking to. Maybe those who didn't save for RE need this kinda slop.
seraphim
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1 through 3: travelling the country, hiking and riding my bike, reducing my stress levels will negate these 'arguments'.
4 and 5: not my problem and of no possible benefit to me.
6. Then let the ones who didn't plan sufficiently for retirement deal with 4 and 5. Although, it's probably the ones who DID plan properly one would want as a mentor.
Sorry - age 57 and I'm out of there!
4 and 5: not my problem and of no possible benefit to me.
6. Then let the ones who didn't plan sufficiently for retirement deal with 4 and 5. Although, it's probably the ones who DID plan properly one would want as a mentor.
Sorry - age 57 and I'm out of there!
SpencerM
Recycles dryer sheets
Sounds like the Op should also add:
Delay Taking SS - until you die. That away you will get a higher monthly amount (if you were still alive)...
and it will help the rest of us...
Delay Taking SS - until you die. That away you will get a higher monthly amount (if you were still alive)...
and it will help the rest of us...
scrabbler1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Ziggy pretty much wrote what I would have written in response to the article.
The only things I would add are these:
(a) My long and awful commute added considerable stress to my life, so eliminating that aided me physically and mentally.
(b) At my former company (and I am sure this applies to most professions), any time we lost someone of any age who had some special knowledge of the job, others had to step in and pick up the slack. It did not matter if the person left because he died, was retiring, or simply leaving our company to work elsewhere. It did not matter if the person was young or old, we still felt a loss to some degree.
(c) Similar to (b), with my new volunteer activities and resurrected hobbies I am able to build new skills I can mentor to others in those areas, so what my old company lost when I ERed in 2008 there are others who gain from my presence.
The only things I would add are these:
(a) My long and awful commute added considerable stress to my life, so eliminating that aided me physically and mentally.
(b) At my former company (and I am sure this applies to most professions), any time we lost someone of any age who had some special knowledge of the job, others had to step in and pick up the slack. It did not matter if the person left because he died, was retiring, or simply leaving our company to work elsewhere. It did not matter if the person was young or old, we still felt a loss to some degree.
(c) Similar to (b), with my new volunteer activities and resurrected hobbies I am able to build new skills I can mentor to others in those areas, so what my old company lost when I ERed in 2008 there are others who gain from my presence.
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
In my opinion, articles like this seek to exploit the very natural fear of the unknown that many people feel. Retirement is a huge change, and most of us work so hard up until retirement that the experience of retirement is largely unknown to us. We have to have the courage to jump in and experience it before it is known to us. Even I (who used to be "Want2Retire") had some moments of fear, not knowing what it might be like.
Now that I have been retired for over two years, I just wish I had been able to pull it off earlier. That's my response to the article. I feel like my life began when I retired. My physical* and mental** well-being have improved, and I have never been happier.
Thanks to those who amplified on the "naked link" for us and to MichaelB for patiently and pleasantly pointing out again that naked links are not appropriate. As the Community Rules state,
* We go to the gym regularly, which was very difficult to manage in addition to so many other duties when working. I had not been physically active since high school, and love this new aspect of my life.
**Although writing proposals (or RFPs) entails some creativity and challenge, even scientific research (or oversight) can include months of mind-numbingly routine work afterwards, or else overseeing the work of an assistant. Retirement allows me to seek a better balance of mental challenge and routine mental tasks.
Now that I have been retired for over two years, I just wish I had been able to pull it off earlier. That's my response to the article. I feel like my life began when I retired. My physical* and mental** well-being have improved, and I have never been happier.
Thanks to those who amplified on the "naked link" for us and to MichaelB for patiently and pleasantly pointing out again that naked links are not appropriate. As the Community Rules state,
* We go to the gym regularly, which was very difficult to manage in addition to so many other duties when working. I had not been physically active since high school, and love this new aspect of my life.
**Although writing proposals (or RFPs) entails some creativity and challenge, even scientific research (or oversight) can include months of mind-numbingly routine work afterwards, or else overseeing the work of an assistant. Retirement allows me to seek a better balance of mental challenge and routine mental tasks.
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Doesn't straddling that fence all the time make your crotch sore?[-]I always wonder exactly what the motivation is to post articles like this here. Nothing wrong with the article, and nothing wrong with the majority counterpoint here.[/-]
Never mind...
ziggy29
Moderator Emeritus
And sometimes, beating dead horses is therapeutic...Doesn't straddling that fence all the time make your crotch sore?
Midpack
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Sorry, don't know what came over me. We should actively seek out other POVs and prove they're wrong because we say so. Anyone who doesn't retire at the first opportunity must be daft...Doesn't straddling that fence all the time make your crotch sore?
Peace...
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REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Over on the Never-Retire.org forum they are having a love-fest with this article.Sorry, don't know what came over me. We should actively seek out other POVs and prove they're wrong because we say so...
Peace...
Midpack
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I wonder if they feel the frequent need to prove we're wrong? I don't know, I've never looked or cared, to each his/her own.Over on the Never-Retire.org forum they are having a love-fest with this article.
Peace...
BigNick
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Agreed. #5 might be important if I lived in a kibbutz, or thought I did. Otherwise, it's just random moralising.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
This board has a simple purpose-collecting eyeballs, who justify higher ad rates. If not the absolute most popular category of thread, this type is right up there. Throw a helpless piggie out in the arena, let him run around and show how fat and easily slaughtered he is, and count on the membership to destroy him completely. After all, the judges are also drawn from the same population as are the lions, so the outcome is guaranteed to be edifying, and thus very helpful for business.
Ha
Ha
packrat44
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NW-Bound
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Ah, talk about horse meat reminded me of a recent thread, where I recounted my failed effort when vacationing in Switzerland and trying to make a day trip down to Northern Italy to try a regional dish: donkey stew.
Just recently looked up on the Web, and what do I know? Horse meat is also so popular there that they even have jars of baby food with it.
Now, it makes me even more curious. Might have to make a special trip just to sample some equine dishes.
Just recently looked up on the Web, and what do I know? Horse meat is also so popular there that they even have jars of baby food with it.
Now, it makes me even more curious. Might have to make a special trip just to sample some equine dishes.
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Ed_The_Gypsy
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So, we got shills on this board?
Moscyn
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I know a number of friends and relatives who cite these reasons to explain why they won't retire early. As long as they don't try to sell these ideas to me, I don't really care. When the very few do try to suggest to me to consider working again, I just tell them to get lost. I'm retired, happy and free and that's what matters. And if I can help it, I don't ever want to work again. There is no "right" or "wrong" decision in ER - it is a personal decision.
travelover
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Good point. I think I'll head over to Bogleheads. I hear there is a new thread regarding the superiority of managed funds from Ameriprise.
grasshopper
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Ah, talk about horse meat reminded me of a recent thread, where I recounted my failed effort when vacationing in Switzerland and trying to make a day trip down to Northern Italy to try a regional dish: donkey stew.
Just recently looked up on the Web, and what do I know? Horse meat is also so popular there that they even have jars of baby food with it.
Now, it makes me even more curious. Might have to make a special trip just to sample some equine dishes.
No thanks, I only eat turtles, snappers, green, river cooters.
seraphim
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While a horse lover in general, I can think of one or two mean spirited nags I would probably donate to your cause ... Having bitten me, I can think of no more poetic ending for them.
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NW-Bound
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I usually talk bigger than I act. That applies to trying exotic meat as well as making investments.
I went to Florida several times, each time saying I would try alligator meat, each time failed to carry through. It is just like chicken, they say. Finally, had it in a soup, in a restaurant in the Vancouver Island, BC, a most unlikely place to have it! Yep, it was just like chicken.
A restaurant near me used to have fried rattlesnake nuggets. One day, decided to go there to try it, but they no longer have it on menu. Guess, I will have to go to Texas now.
In Sydney, I made a reservation at a downtown restaurant specialized in 'roo meat. I got cold feet and made a no-show. A fellow forum member told me that I missed out, that it was my loss.
That applies to trying exotic meat as well as making investments.I went to Florida several times, each time saying I would try alligator meat, each time failed to carry through. It is just like chicken, they say. Finally, had it in a soup, in a restaurant in the Vancouver Island, BC, a most unlikely place to have it! Yep, it was just like chicken.
A restaurant near me used to have fried rattlesnake nuggets. One day, decided to go there to try it, but they no longer have it on menu. Guess, I will have to go to Texas now.
In Sydney, I made a reservation at a downtown restaurant specialized in 'roo meat. I got cold feet and made a no-show. A fellow forum member told me that I missed out, that it was my loss.
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