Age To Hit $100 K in Savings

[Berkshire_Bull]

hmmm... i think i hit 100K last fall... but of course i don't own a home, furnature, or really much else for that matter except for a car... i'll pick that stuff up after i graduate. so i guess i made it a little while after my 20th birthday. i'm up to around 130k now, so i'm just hoping things keep going well with my equities. had i not had the benefits of some phenominal small-cap pics, i'd probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 20k-30k right now.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Gee, and I thought I was doing well debt free with $68k at 34. I do have a vested non-COLA pension, though; so far I've been discounting it but just received a statement estimating $900+ per month.

It'd probably cost the insurance company around $20k to replace all the stuff in my apartment and another few thousand for the car, but it's certainly not worth that if I were to sell it all.

Now I just got debt free, so I expect my savings to increase quickly from here on out unless I get married and/or have a kid.

 

[retire@40]

hmmm... i think i hit 100K last fall... but of course i don't own a home, furnature, or really much else for that matter except for a car... i'll pick that stuff up after i graduate.  so i guess i made it a little while after my 20th birthday.  i'm up to around 130k now, so i'm just hoping things keep going well with my equities.  had i not had the benefits of some phenominal small-cap pics, i'd probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 20k-30k right now.

If you're not even 20 and have $130K in net worth, you are in fantastic financial shape. I found that after I hit $100K when I was 28 it just got easier to get to $200K and even easier to get to $300K. I'm at $500K now and hope to be at $900K by age 40.

 

[eryx]

I just hit $100k at age 28. Here's my story:

Graduated and started work at 21. Back then I wasn't familiar with ER concepts, and only had the 401k set to 6%. Needless to say I've corrected that and am maxing it out ($13000). So even with a slow start I was able to get where I am now...mostly by realizing that my quick growth in salary wasn't really needed. That is, I was happy in my current lifestyle and rather than change something by throwing money into it, I used the extra income to increase my savings rate or pay off debt (car). For some reason delayed gratification comes easily to me, unlike most people it seems. I'm up to a savings rate of 40% now, for the first time.

With such a high savings rate I should easily double to $200k at age 31, unless the markets go down (a lot)!

By looking at straight $$, ER is projected at age 40 at the earliest; easily at age 45. However, that projection leaves out details like where is the income going to come from if most of my savings are locked up in 401k/IRA. Some of it is now going into taxable accounts...but by age 40 will that be enough to carry me to age 59.5? I don't know. Perhaps adding withdrawal of the Roth IRA contributions plus the "substantially equals payments" option will be enough.

I'm also lucky enough to have a "portable pension" that I can take as a lump sum at any time I leave my employer. Currently that's worth about $15k, after 6.5 years.

As for the grad school thing...this is my first semester in it. Mostly I'm doing it because my employer pays for it 100%. I don't think it is necessary in my field but is generally a "good thing" to have and does help to keep advancing (in responsibility, status, pay, promotions).

TEXT

 

[windedhare]

Now I just got debt free, so I expect my savings to increase quickly from here on out unless I get married and/or have a kid.

Marriage can be an advantage for building NW if both are working. My net was just crossing the 100K marker as a singleton in 2002. After marriage, and combining our assets, we were over 200K , and now over 300K. To me, kids are the wildcard.

BTW- Congrats on debt free. That is a *huge* milestone. I wanted to be clear of debt before getting married and remember the relief and joy of feeling free. After that the subsequent next milestones, 100K, 200K, etc will seem to be on a more accelerated pace.

 

[Berkshire_Bull]

i hope that after i graduate i get as fine a salary as many of you guys in your late 20s are making. what would you say has been the key to getting paid so well, grades, people skills, being the company's slave...? i think i'd rather be a salve for a while than an indentured servant for a very long time.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Butt kissing, competence, covering your backside, butt kissing, knowing the political landscape and staying out of the crossfire, get and keep a good manager that watches out for you, butt kissing, maintaining a good positive and friendly attitude at all times, knowing exactly how and why you are measured on your performance appraisals and gaming that system to the hilt.

Oh yeah,and some butt kissing doesnt hurt.

I never went to college, and had no good college grades, and as a first, second and third line manager I dont remember ever caring much about where someone went to school, what their gpa was, and I dont recall any other manager using that as any kind of metric. Unless we were hiring interns.

Being the company slave? I dont think that matters much either. I saw a lot of guys work 70 hours a week get passed over for promos and big raises in favor of the guy who had marketed himself well within the company, been well supported by the manager, had positive exposure to a broad range of other managers, and who had the good buzz wordy accomplishments that played well in the annual review cycle. A couple of those guys might have pulled 30 hours of actual office time in a week.

I think one of the keys for me early in my career was taking on the crappiest tasks or jobs nobody else wanted to do, and doing a good visible job at them while smiling. I kept that up through most of my career...I'd always take on the employee nobody else wanted, fix the group of wild angry people who all wanted to quit, take on the product that everybody thought was radioactive, work on the programs that everyone felt needed to be done but nobody wanted to do. Of course, I "fixed" the "bad" employee, turned the angry department into top performers, and cranked out great results on the products, projects and programs I took over. Doing a bad job or failing at a bad project isnt a plus. A few years into my last job I was told that I was viewed by many of the senior staff as a "troubleshooter that gets it done". Perfect.

I always told my new employees that the people who would succeed would be widely known, but not necessarily well known. The very best is to have 20-30 managers around the local organization respond to a question about you as "Yeah I know him, he's a good guy...helped me with xx or fixed that yy project that was out of control". More isnt necessarily good. Invisibility is very bad.

Write down all of your accomplishments. Even small ones, they can aggregate nicely when you submit your review at the end of the year.

Be reachable and responsive to everyone in your management chain. When they're on their 5th call to get an answer or some help, and you're the only one who answers...big plus.

 

[retire@40]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but if you go work for a company, butt kissing is also very important.

The only reason I made any money is because I started my own business after college. I don't think I can ever bend enough to kiss my own butt, and I've told people that work for me that butt kissing is not allowed.

Even if you decide to have a "boss" I would highly recommend that you at least start a side business for yourself. Find something you enjoy and/or have a talent doing and turn it into a business. You may be surprised how quickly that business will take off if you are good at what you do.

 

[brewer12345]

FWIW, I never was a very good butt-kisser and I continue to struggle with this issue. However, I have had some success by running my career as if I were an independent contractor. What do I mean by this?

- Remember that you are running a business and that you owe your client a duty of care and good service, but that's it. Loyalty does not exist. They will sell you down the river if it will push the stock up a quarter of a point, so behave accordingly.

- Pay attention to what skills are demanded in the marketplace and invest accordingly. Even better if you can invest in skills that will pay off for you personally in addition to advancing your business. In my case, an MBA in finance and accounting makes me very marketable, but also helps me be a better investor.

- Don't be shy about marketing to new clients. If headhunters are calling you or classmates/peers are moving around, it probably means that other employers are willing to pay more than you are getting now. That doesn't automatically mean you should bail, but it pays to keep an ear to the ground and know the market for your skills.

- Sine you are running a business, pay attention to the balance sheet in addition to the income statement. You wouldn't buy stock in a company with too much debt or lots of questionable assets. Treat your business the same.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I think you just hit on why I dont own many hats

Brewer...good advice, but couple of things. If your company feels you are loyal (even though I agree they generally show you none), you are better perceived. Perception is everything. Also, feeling good about your place of work, who they are and what they do improves ones sense of fulfillment in the work. A mercenary attitude helps when things go south or when better opportunities present, but it may not be as fulfilling.

I've been away from my job for about 4 years now. I still bristle a little when someone says something bad about them and I start formulating competitive strategies when I see other companies product release information. Granted they had some dumb people and did some dumb things, and probably would have sold me up the river for a quarter point stock boost...but in general it was a good place and I felt like an important part of it. That was an enriching improvement in my life, not just a paycheck for hire.

On the other hand, I ran like hell and never looked back the moment I noticed I was FI...

It all comes down to that perception thing though...broad based recognition of you as a product, and that recognition containing "reliable, strong, approachable, persistent, versatile, reasonable, positive, capable".

So in line with Brewers thinking, you have to create a brand, advertise it, create name recognition, strong brand identity, and make sure the product fulfills the expectations. Although honestly, when push comes to shove, that last part isnt as important as the first parts.

I was never so proud as when I heard one senior manager remark to another over a cube wall "We have to get some more H's into this organization". I was the "kleenex" of employees.

 

[brewer12345]

I think you just hit on why I dont own many hats

Brewer...good advice, but couple of things.  If your company feels you are loyal (even though I agree they generally show you none), you are better perceived.  Perception is everything.  Also, feeling good about your place of work, who they are and what they do improves ones sense of fulfillment in the work.  A mercenary attitude helps when things go south or when better opportunities present, but it may not be as fulfilling.

I've been away from my job for about 4 years now.  I still bristle a little when someone says something bad about them and I start formulating competitive strategies when I see other companies product release information.  Granted they had some dumb people and did some dumb things, and probably would have sold me up the river for a quarter point stock boost...but in general it was a good place and I felt like an important part of it.  That was an enriching improvement in my life, not just a paycheck for hire.

.

I must just be wired differently, because I have never, ever felt that way about an employer/job. As far as I am concerned, I might get along with and genuinely like a group of people who I work with, but that doesn't mean that any of this loyalty nonsense extends as far as the organization goes. Maybe its just that I've never been offered a job where I had enough of a stake in things that I would care. All this "enriching" stuff, well, that only applies to the comp as far as I am concerned. I can't get past the fact that they will take you out and shoot you when it is convenient for them.

I would agree that you would want to appear to be a good underling. Letting my true feelings out of the bag has cost me upon occasion.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess its an outgrowth of the same mechanism that makes you get out of bed and do stuff every day, with the knowledge that you're gonna drop dead some day anyhow.

Maybe its just that I always tried to instill and foster bidirectional loyalty between my staff and myself, and with my immediate managers.

In the few instances I've had untrusty managers who I knew had my best interests WAY down on their priority list. I transferred or took another job pronto. Thats just too toxic a situation to remain in.

Building those trust relationships is hard work, and sticking up for your people and your manager results in a lot more arrows in YOUR chest. But to me it was worth it in the long haul and had a lot of positive benefits. Every time I went out for cocktails with a crowd from work, people from other groups would actively try to get me to hire them...so picking up good people for open jobs was never a problem. A lot of people took arrow for me on occasion. And I never had anyone quit or transfer out of my department. I only had to fire a guy once, and I did that because he lived an hour and a half away and a customer of mine that was local to him wanted to hire him, but couldnt hire him "away" from us contractually.

Trust and loyalty (to a degree) can be very useful tools.

 

[windedhare]

i hope that after i graduate i get as fine a salary as many of you guys in your late 20s are making.  what would you say has been the key to getting paid so well, grades, people skills, being the company's slave...?  i think i'd rather be a salve for a while than an indentured servant for a very long time.

I've seen plenty of folks make it on superior butt kissing skills. Personally, I have a very strong aversion to the practice. I have to admit I did work like a slave to compensate for my lack of people and butt kissing skills. I am also lousy at hiding my thoughts so I have to get good at what I do to stay off the shaft list.

Grades are mostly irrelavent outside of trying to apply to graduate school. Poor grades can possibly lock you out of an interview with some high profile companies, but if you can get an interview, it isn't a factor in salary negotiation.

PeopleSkills are extremly important. Know your audience. Know what is important to the person on the other side of the desk, be it your boss, your customer, a potential customer. You dont have to like them, kiss up to them, etc... just know what drives them and have all the influence you need.

Manage and nuture your own career. Don't wait for some "mentor" to show you the ropes. Take initiative to go for what you want. Read as much as you can, stay informed, keep written goals, and focus on those activities that help you achieve your goals.

Negotiate your salary well up front. This is VERY VERY important-- it is an uphill battle to recover. I know-- I had to learn that lesson first hand. I did not make that mistake again.

Know what you are worth and demand it. Do not settle for, "I can always ask for a raise after I have proven myself". All your subsequent raises and bonus are a precentage of current salary. If you get low balled coming in the door your options are not pretty. You either have to find a new employer or you have to make a fuss to get the salary adjustments. Even if you get an adjustment, they are never retroactive... significant opportunity lost.

An additional, and a significant factor for me was timing. I got out of school and a really good time, and made a series of decisions that took me down a path clear of mines. And while you can't control timing, you should remember that good timing doesn't do any good if you are not prepared. Hard work will prepare you to recognize and be in a position to jump on the right opportunites.

Good Luck out there!

 

[Bob_Smith]

i hope that after i graduate i get as fine a salary as many of you guys in your late 20s are making.  what would you say has been the key to getting paid so well, grades, people skills, being the company's slave...?  i think i'd rather be a salve for a while than an indentured servant for a very long time.

This doesn't speak directly to your question about making big money, but it will provide another way to look at it. I took an entirely different path to ER. I never made as much as $50,000 annually at my job - ever. My wife worked part-time, out of our home, and the most she has ever made was $21,000. I had offers to make more and turned them down. There were advantages to that path:

--I was able to work in a career that enabled me to help people who were hurting. What I did mattered, and now that I'm ERd I'm grateful for that. I didn't fully appreciate that when I was working.
--I was able to work four 10-hour days (three day weekends) for almost my entire career.
--I was able to live in a small, safe, low cost-of-living town, with good schools. I lived 5 minutes from my office. I had lunch at home, with my wife, almost every day.
--I had several weeks of vacation annually.
--I never worked in a cubicle. I had an office with a door, and big windows overlooking manicured grounds and trees. I parked next to my office door - for free.
--I wasn't forced to travel. In 30 years of employment, I was only away from home overnight maybe 5 nights.
--I was able to be there for my kids.
--I had enough free time to write, get published, and develop connections that I can tap later if I decide to do more.
--I never kissed butt - I was able to keep my dignity intact. That probably cost me, but I achieved my goals nonetheless.
--I was never in a position where I was expected to manipulate, back-stab, con someone into doing something that wasn't in their best interests, or violate my principles in any way. I was able to retire at age 51 with my integrity intact, and that was (and is) valuable to me.

Toward the end of my career we were saddled with a new, inexperienced, incompetent management team, but that can happen anywhere. It was miserable for everyone. Fortunately, I didn't have to live with that for very long (about three years) because we had been saving aggressively. It took us 13 years of saving and investing before I pulled the plug. We did receive an inheritance that enabled us to cut off about 3 years. Without it I would have retired at 54 with roughly the same amount, or at 55 with more than we have now.

The point I'm trying to make is that school teachers, social workers, nurses, firemen, and other relatively low paid people can ER if they choose to do so. Making big bucks is probably the best way, but not the only way.

 

[Nords]

Beats the heck outta military careers...

I took an entirely different path to ER.

If I was starting over again, I'd do it your way!

I worked for some great bosses and heroic warriors, but those memories don't make me smile. I worked for some real world-class jerks, too, but I've forgiven them. I'm especially forgiving of the senior officers who retired before I did yet are still working.

The memories that keep me smiling are the ones where I was able to help the people who worked with/for me. Show your troops their jobs, train them, clear a few obstacles out of the way (especially upper management), and stand back. And I don't have to rely on those memories, because years later I'm still getting e-mails or phone calls to say "Thanks..."

 

[John Galt]

Well, I had two (2) mentors in business, both dead many years now. I still miss 'em. One of the best
hires of my career was a young engineer I found in 1991. He told me recently that I was his mentor.
I'll tell you, that warmed this old cold heart. Especially
coming from this guy. He had it all.

John Galt

 

[Jane]

Like Bob Smith, I also have decided to get into something that I enjoy and still have a somehow balanced life. Sure in my field, I can make more money by going into management or sale or field service but that means giving up doing technical stuff I enjoy (management) or travel a lot (sale and field service).

I value my time outside work and although I do work overtime from time to time, I have only been away 3 times in my 6 years working for this company. To me money is not everything. By the end of the day, I want to be able to emerge emotionally and physically intact. I don't want to go through my working years feeling tired, develop ulcer, losing my family etc, etc. I don't want to feel that I have to kiss-butt, sell my soul to the devil etc.

Of course that said I also always treat my employer and coworker nicely, no matter whether or not I like them. To me that is just a basic professionalism. You don't have to be buddies at work, just be courteous, do your job well and *never* let personal feelings get in the way.

Jane

 

[Hyperborea]

Like Bob Smith, I also have decided to get into something that I enjoy and still have a somehow balanced life. Sure in my field, I can make more money by going into management or sale or field service but that means giving up doing technical stuff I enjoy (management) or travel a lot (sale and field service).

More technical companies are realizing this and are putting a technical "career track" into place.

I value my time outside work and although I do work overtime from time to time, I have only been away 3 times in my 6 years working for this company. To me money is not everything. By the end of the day, I want to be able to emerge emotionally and physically intact. I don't want to go through my working years feeling tired, develop ulcer, losing my family etc, etc. I don't want to feel that I have to kiss-butt, sell my soul to the devil etc.

A lot here depends on the company and the policies they have in place.  The current large company I work for is great: they have very good employee benefits; it isn't expected that employees work huge hours on a regular basis though there is "crunch time" when you do need to but they provide dinner for those working late; and just a good general friendly atmosphere.  This doesn't just apply to my group within the company but this is what it appears to be in general across the board.  I'm hoping to work here until I retire in 7 or so years.

In the previous company I worked for it was a hellacious pressure cooker.  The benefits were sub-standard and anyone who wasn't pulling 60 hours / week was a "slacker" - whether those were productive hours didn't matter.

In the company before that it was in general a good company so some of the macro items were good all around.  However, the company was very large and there were few "controls" on the units within the company so the work environment was incredibly variable.  I worked in two different groups in my years there and one was terrible while the other was great.  I was "recruited" away from the terrible group by the great group when it was learned that I was thinking about leaving the company.

What does it mean?  If you really hate your job maybe it's not the kind of work or even the industry (all these companies are in the same general industry) but perhaps it's just the company.

 

[azanon]

i hope that after i graduate i get as fine a salary as many of you guys in your late 20s are making.  what would you say has been the key to getting paid so well, grades, people skills, being the company's slave...?  i think i'd rather be a salve for a while than an indentured servant for a very long time.

Some have already touched on this here, but i'll reemphaise.  My wife and i only take in about 105K/year combined now, but what i would brag about more is that my federal job only requires 40hr/week with holidays off, plus 18 days a year off, also get 3 day weekends, etc.  My wife also works 40hrs/week max with sick leave and annual leave.

A 100K dollar salary might sound fancy, but a lot of these people (convinently) leave out the 60-80hrs/week it takes to make that.  When someone asks me what i make, i'm more apt to say 31/hr, than 64K a year.

My point: Consider the whole scenario, not just the salary.

 

[Hyperborea]

A 100K dollar salary might sound fancy, but a lot of these people (convinently) leave out the 60-80hrs/week it takes to make that.  When someone asks me what i make, i'm more apt to say 31/hr, than 64K a year..

It doesn't have to be that big a trade-off.  I make a good deal more than that not counting bonuses, options, and ESPP gains.  I usually only work 40-45 hours each week though I'd guess that there is about another 40-60 hours or so each year that I work during the "crunch" times of hitting a deadline.  I get 24 days a year of vacation (and I've never lost any vacation time yet), holidays paid, more vacation in a couple of years, a sabbatical of 4 weeks every 5 years, a good sized gym on site, corporate matching on my charitable donations, an excellent 401k with good funds and a good match, monthly transit pass paid for, and great other benefits.

 

[retire@40]

I'm trying to get to the point where I can say I get the whole year off, but I find the time to work a couple of hours a week.

 

[azanon]

I was just generalizing hyper, not targetting any previous poster. Its just that I've been at thankgiving gettogethers where you know someone mentions a great salary, but you really know this person is working insane hours for it.

But it was mainly for the original poster to just consider the myraid of factors in a job besides just the salary.

 

[Jane]

More technical companies are realizing this and are putting a technical "career track" into place.


A lot here depends on the company and the policies they have in place.  The current large company I work for is great: they have very good employee benefits; it isn't expected that employees work huge hours on a regular basis though there is "crunch time" when you do need to but they provide dinner for those working late; and just a good general friendly atmosphere.  This doesn't just apply to my group within the company but this is what it appears to be in general across the board.  I'm hoping to work here until I retire in 7 or so years.

Technically we have "technical career" track but this still offers lower pay than management career track. Our sales people received commission which if they are good salespersons, can be quite lucrative.

I consider my company pretty good. Their pay is not the greatest in the country (but we do receive overtime pay if we work more than 40 hours a week), but I have a good boss, and most people I work with here are reasonable.

Sadly not all the bosses here are good. When I first got hired I was working for a boss who seemed to think that the only job fit for a young female engineer just graduated from school was to type/photocopy his stuff. I was resistant to that idea (which made him more resistant in giving me any technical work) and I finally decided to request for a transfer (I figured the worst thing that could happen was that they could fire me).

I got my transfer and my new boss treated me better, actually giving me some technical work to do. I did pretty well under him (with the old boss I was his "problem" employee).

I also like that my company provides me with health, life and disability insurance, 5% matching for defined contribution pension plan, and stock option.

Jane

 

[daystar]

I'm just looking to get up to Azanon's level. I believe he's a GS-12 in government. I'm a GS-9 ($40K), but I live like a GS-7 ($32K) and then I pocket the rest of the money.

I think if you work in government, you have to make a tradeoff. You get more job security and a 40-hour workweek with good benefits. However, you have to give up a little pay.

As for graduate degrees, I'm doing mine before and after work. I spend most of my weekends doing homework. I'll have my MBA in May and I should have my GS-11 by then too. I expect to spend most of my career as a GS-12 which pays around ($60-80K in today's dollars). That may not be very much for some of you, but I already have a plan where I can retire by 48 (possibly earlier).

You can compare your salary to a civil servant's here:
http://www.opm.gov/oca/04tables/index.asp

Most of us are on the "general schedule"

 

[Hyperborea]

I was just generalizing hyper, not targetting any previous poster.  Its just that I've been at thankgiving gettogethers where you know someone mentions a great salary, but you really know this person is working insane hours for it.

Ok, but my point was that it is possible to be making a "good" salary and not be killing yourself.  Now, I'm still not sure how common this is.  Have I just "lucked out" and found the only (or one of the few) companies like this?

But it was mainly for the original poster to just consider the myraid of factors in a job besides just the salary.

A sensible thing to do.  It's first of all important to consider the entire remuneration package - benefits, other compensation, training, etc.  Sort of the same problem was that during the boom years of Silicon Valley a lot were only focused on the number of options rather than the total package including the odds of those options paying out.

Second it's important to consider what the impacts of the job on your life will be - do you enjoy the work, what about travel, where do you have to live, etc.  It is possible that you can put up with hard conditions for a couple of years if the remuneration is right but you don't want to spend a decade or so like that.