Financials and Dating

[MichaelB]

I hear a lot about IRMAA, not just your post, so I was trying to figure out the impact, and asked to see if there was something I'm missing. Draconian was the term that triggered it for me, for about a 3% surcharge, I think?

If a couple is earning $100K, one passes away, they lose the lesser of the SS pensions as well. If that keeps the survivor at $86K. IRMAA kicks in for both plans B&D - another $1K of after tax income. Perhaps a bit of license to call it draconian, but certainly painful.

 

[Bir48die]

That was in my post. Did you miss the part where my "spending habits" were due to my dying mother's medical expenses? After she died, that spending stopped and I was able to crawl to solvency for the first time in my life.

Sorry. Grrrrrr. I am guilty of not thoroughly reading posts. Don’t have the time so please forgive me. I’ve had plenty of medical expenses due to my first wife who died at 50.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading some of the responses. Both my wife and I were widows. We didn’t talk about salaries but she knew I made good money and I knew she managed money well and had PERS retirement. When we were very serious about our relationship I sat down and wrote out a financial plan if we were married. She had talked about living together and I wanted to set an example of my commitment so the kids could see how serious I was.

She gave up $1,200/month tax free of Veterans benefits. But I eventually told her what I had saved and how it would make up for that forever. Good news is if I kick off she can get that benefit back plus a larger state benefit. Not giving her any ideas if you know what I mean.

 

[gwraigty]

Sorry. Grrrrrr. I am guilty of not thoroughly reading posts. Don’t have the time so please forgive me. I’ve had plenty of medical expenses due to my first wife who died at 50.

Anyway, I have enjoyed reading some of the responses. Both my wife and I were widows. We didn’t talk about salaries but she knew I made good money and I knew she managed money well and had PERS retirement. When we were very serious about our relationship I sat down and wrote out a financial plan if we were married. She had talked about living together and I wanted to set an example of my commitment so the kids could see how serious I was.

She gave up $1,200/month tax free of Veterans benefits. But I eventually told her what I had saved and how it would make up for that forever. Good news is if I kick off she can get that benefit back plus a larger state benefit. Not giving her any ideas if you know what I mean.

No problem.

It'll be our little secret.

I wish you both well. Thanks for adding your story.

 

[SecondCor521]

I hear a lot about IRMAA, not just your post, so I was trying to figure out the impact, and asked to see if there was something I'm missing. Draconian was the term that triggered it for me, for about a 3% surcharge, I think?

If a couple is earning $100K, one passes away, they lose the lesser of the SS pensions as well. If that keeps the survivor at $86K. IRMAA kicks in for both plans B&D - another $1K of after tax income. Perhaps a bit of license to call it draconian, but certainly painful.

Yeah, draconian wasn't the right word. I was just trying to say that if you lose your spouse and your income doesn't drop by very much, then you get hit with a worse IRMAA surcharge than you would if you were still married.

 

[RunningBum]

Yeah, draconian wasn't the right word. I was just trying to say that if you lose your spouse and your income doesn't drop by very much, then you get hit with a worse IRMAA surcharge than you would if you were still married.

OK, and I didn't mean to pick on you. It just triggered the question.

Is the IRMAA hit higher than the tax bracket hit, where a lot more of the income for a single is taxed at 22%? By my very rough calcs on MichaleB's numbers, you'd pay ~$3000 more in income taxes, and about $1000 more with IRMAA. In the very worst case of $170K income, it'd be about $9000 more in tax, and ~$3600 more IRMAA. I did this very quickly, with standard and over 65 deduction, and may have missed something, just trying to get a ball park estimate.

The tax bracket change is about 3x the hit, though the double whammy doesn't help, and maybe wasn't expected.

 

[SecondCor521]

OK, and I didn't mean to pick on you. It just triggered the question.

Is the IRMAA hit higher than the tax bracket hit, where a lot more of the income for a single is taxed at 22%? By my very rough calcs on MichaleB's numbers, you'd pay ~$3000 more in income taxes, and about $1000 more with IRMAA. In the very worst case of $170K income, it'd be about $9000 more in tax, and ~$3600 more IRMAA. I did this very quickly, with standard and over 65 deduction, and may have missed something, just trying to get a ball park estimate.

The tax bracket change is about 3x the hit, though the double whammy doesn't help, and maybe wasn't expected.

No worries.

Offhand I don't know how people would define "higher". Certainly my Dad got hit with both the tax bracket effect and the IRMAA effect and they are in parallel so you get hit twice. And to your last sentence, yes, the tax bracket effect was expected but IRMAA wasn't expected (and came along a year later I think).

I'd rather not disclose my Dad's specific numbers because (a) I don't have his permission, (b) I'm not sure what his exact numbers are, and (c) his situation wouldn't be any one else's anyways. IRMAA surcharge brackets and income tax brackets are easily google-able anyway. The numbers you mention seem ballpark accurate, although the income tax change would obviously be dependent on the relative size of the two SS benefits and any pension losses vs. other income sources.

 

[Dynaflash]

I don't think it's that simple. I've come to conclude that we are all the product of nature and nurture, in varying degrees, and the "nurture" part sometimes comes in the form of counter-examples. For example I have heard some people say that they learned how NOT to handle money because of their experiences growing up with parents who were always in debt and struggling financially.

Also, I think the type and amount of debt matters. I am less critical of someone who carries reasonable mortgage and student loan debt as I am of someone who carries high interest credit card or consumer debt. Having said all of that, I agree that if someone over the age of 35-40 is up to their eyeballs in consumer debt they are unlikely to change.

This is exactly what has happened to me and my wife. We watched both set of parents do crazy things and be broke. Never have enough to retire or even have a good SS check because of poor work history. We watched it and discussed it when we were very young......married young. Then we decided to always save something. Even when the kids were small. We also have lived below our means and have recently retired. I believe we will be ok. I just hope our children are able to save

 

[Hermit]

Yikes...under 18? We used to call that jail-bait.

omni

Ha Ha! The last date I had was with the late DW. On our first couple of dates she was 18 and I was 29. She was so poor, I took her clothes shopping so we could go on a nice date and for interviews. She had been living with her brother and his wife but soon had her own apartment and paid all her bills, working two and sometimes three jobs to make ends meet. She knew I was at least somewhat good with money because she worked as a teller where I banked. We were married when she was 19.

We were married for just under 30 years when she passed away. That was almost 10 years ago. I am finally getting to the point that I might try a date, but there doesn't seem much interest in an old mountain hermit with or without finances. I have no clue what I would do about broaching the subject of money. I would just pay the tab for a dinner or evening out as I do with friends and family.

 

[Amy T]

I am still searching for a partner. I wish I knew the answer to your question. I did put directly in my dating profile that I was on the FIRE path and looking for someone who was also on the path to financial Independence. I don't think you have to talk about money to know if you have compatible spending habits. That will come with dating. I will want to know someone's debt status. I'm debt free and not willing to go back! Net worth doesn't need to be discussed until making life long plans together.
Anyone have plans to start a FIRE dating site? I'll join

 

[imnontrad]

I wish I could find a good FIRE partner. But to me it's more than just understanding finances. I don't want a man who thinks he needs to "take are of the little lady" or who wants a nurse / housekeeper/ whatever or who is looking at me as a blank check.

Now, I think if I get involved with someone, they will most likely have kids/grandkids like me. So if it gets serious, part of it will be a "business transaction" so his kids know I'm not after his money/inheritance and vice versa .

 

[Souschef]

I wish I could find a good FIRE partner. But to me it's more than just understanding finances. I don't want a man who thinks he needs to "take are of the little lady" or who wants a nurse / housekeeper/ whatever or who is looking at me as a blank check.

Now, I think if I get involved with someone, they will most likely have kids/grandkids like me. So if it gets serious, part of it will be a "business transaction" so his kids know I'm not after his money/inheritance and vice versa .

DW's sons told her not to tell anyone what she had, which was a good idea. When we started getting serious, she ran a check on me because she thought I was "too good to be true". I do not resent it, as I think it was a smart thing to do..
But, some of these sites are really flawed. I ran myself on one recently, and it gave my income as 40K, and my assets at 45K LOL

 

[FIREd]

Since I am not interested in remarriage or even cohabitation, I just look for women who can pay their own way. I am not becoming someone’s sugar daddy.

 

[REWahoo]

since i am not interested in remarriage or even cohabitation, i just look for women. [-]who can pay their own way. I am not becoming someone’s sugar daddy[/-].

fify.

 

[gwraigty]

I wish I could find a good FIRE partner. But to me it's more than just understanding finances. I don't want a man who thinks he needs to "take are of the little lady" or who wants a nurse / housekeeper/ whatever or who is looking at me as a blank check.

Now, I think if I get involved with someone, they will most likely have kids/grandkids like me. So if it gets serious, part of it will be a "business transaction" so his kids know I'm not after his money/inheritance and vice versa .

I have a great marriage, but if I outlive my husband, I don't intend to marry again. I've seen the best laid financial inheritance plans go astray over time in 2nd marriages, especially when there's a significant imbalance in income/assets between the spouses. Sometimes the law can dictate that your 2nd spouse has certain rights to property that you'd intended your kids to get, like the marital home, or a 401k, as common examples. A conniving 2nd spouse can chip away at assets, in various ways, not meant for them or their kids. Step-kids can be no picnic either. I've known of an elderly woman who was thrown out of her 2nd husband's home by his kids within a day or two of his death. This was illegal, per state law, but it happened.

Your other non-financial concerns are valid as well.

If I was widowed and ever found someone else I could foresee having as a rest-of-my-life companion, though I can't imagine someone else measuring up to my husband, I might follow the example of one of our own here and maintain separate residences, though not necessarily next door.

That said, both my great-grandmothers were widowed and enjoyed healthy 2nd marriages, but there was no significant income/assets to consider on either side.

 

[imnontrad]

But, some of these sites are really flawed. I ran myself on one recently, and it gave my income as 40K, and my assets at 45K LOL

I have seen one site that claimed that I was living with my former MIL! Yes, she's a nice lady but really. :-D
As you get older, assets are more important than income. I don't know of any site that reports mine. But I can easily show my FICO score.

 

[Souschef]

I have a great marriage, but if I outlive my husband, I don't intend to marry again. I've seen the best laid financial inheritance plans go astray over time in 2nd marriages, especially when there's a significant imbalance in income/assets between the spouses. Sometimes the law can dictate that your 2nd spouse has certain rights to property that you'd intended your kids to get, like the marital home, or a 401k, as common examples. A conniving 2nd spouse can chip away at assets, in various ways, not meant for them or their kids. Step-kids can be no picnic either. t-of-my-life companion, though I can't imagine someone else measuring up to my husband, I might follow the example of one of our own here and maintain separate residences, though not necessarily next door.
T.

I have about 5X the assets DW has. Each of our assets is in one name only. The difference is in the beneficiaries. I have divided mine between her 2 sons and my 2 sons.

Now if my ex dies, my kids will inherit a pile, so I will change the percentages.

 

[Hermit]

I am still searching for a partner. I wish I knew the answer to your question. I did put directly in my dating profile that I was on the FIRE path and looking for someone who was also on the path to financial Independence. I don't think you have to talk about money to know if you have compatible spending habits. That will come with dating. I will want to know someone's debt status. I'm debt free and not willing to go back! Net worth doesn't need to be discussed until making life long plans together.
Anyone have plans to start a FIRE dating site? I'll join [emoji16]

A close in proximity match for me would be an hour or two from here. A FIRE match from this forum would be a serious commute!

 

[gwraigty]

I have about 5X the assets DW has. Each of our assets is in one name only. The difference is in the beneficiaries. I have divided mine between her 2 sons and my 2 sons.

Now if my ex dies, my kids will inherit a pile, so I will change the percentages.

That's generous of you, and I truly mean that.

 

[Souschef]

That's generous of you, and I truly mean that.

Thank you. I love them as if they were my own, and they have been totally accepting of me. They both called me last Father's Day

 

[imnontrad]

Irrevocable trust?

I think one solution would be to put most of the assets in an irrevocable trust. You could design the trust so you have distributions and could even limit the amount that could be taken out every year and/or require the approval of a sibling to release more.
This would ensure your heirs get the inheritance and, with the sibling approval required, lessen the probability that a new spouse could run through the money. In addition, it would provide protection from a lawsuit (a revocable trust does not).

 

[teej1985]

I am still searching for a partner. I wish I knew the answer to your question. I did put directly in my dating profile that I was on the FIRE path and looking for someone who was also on the path to financial Independence. I don't think you have to talk about money to know if you have compatible spending habits. That will come with dating. I will want to know someone's debt status. I'm debt free and not willing to go back! Net worth doesn't need to be discussed until making life long plans together.
Anyone have plans to start a FIRE dating site? I'll join

What's your desired age range? ;-)

 

[brydanger]

For anyone who has successfully found a good FIRE partner or is currently searching for one, I'm wondering how/when you brought up your financial situation with your prospective partner?

First ten minutes?

Hard for me to answer for certain as I/we didn't even know what FIRE stood for when I met my partner, but the fact that we both share the same goals (even if usually phrased in different ways) is the only reason we've been able to accomplish a small fraction of what we have over the years.

You may not be truly aligned on all things, but depending on exactly how important this is to you, or how early you're looking for RE... it truly may not be possible without both being on the same/similar page.

Compromise is key... but if one of you is looking to live in a van and save dryer sheets and the other thinks its okay to simply stop at the 401k match - there will eventually be a lot of resentment one way or the other.

I alway say to surround yourself be people with similar goals... no more important person in that equation than your partner!

 

[kcowan]

Thank you. I love them as if they were my own, and they have been totally accepting of me. They both called me last Father's Day

Congratulations. You obviously chose your current partner wisely!

 

[gwraigty]

Compromise is key... but if one of you is looking to live in a van and save dryer sheets and the other thinks its okay to simply stop at the 401k match - there will eventually be a lot of resentment one way or the other.

Bad example. For most of my husband's career, he only wanted to contribute up to the 401k match. I was fine with this, as we could get much better investments outside of the plan. A few years ago, we decided to start maxing it out, but then he became classified as a HCE. He isn't allowed to contribute more than up to the company match, plus 2% after tax.

Some people just starting out in life may only be able to comfortably contribute up to the company match. That doesn't mean they're not being frugal and saving/investing a little outside of the plan. That's actually a smart thing to do. Haven't we seen topics about people who want to retire early, yet don't know what they'll live on because virtually all of their assets are locked in retirement accounts they can't access yet?

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

After a few dates, I pulled a Chilton (Equifax) credit bureau report on my wife to see if she was the kind of person with the capacity to pay her bills--and the good character to pay on time.

My wife is a Medical Technologist. She pulled out a syringe and drew my blood to do a chemical blood analysis on me. She knew I was okay financially, but she wanted to know if I was healthy enough to marry. She told me I needed to slow down drinking (at the time.) That was 38 years ago.

Both worked out just fine.

I love it. I pulled a credit & Dnb reports on my now husband. I'm a retired credit analyst- could you tell?

p.s. He (obviously) passed, and we are a perfect pair when it comes to all things money.