Back Pain

[chris2008]

DH (59) had L4/L5 surgery for sliding discs with disk replacement and spinal stenosis 3,5 years ago. He did lots of walking, daily careful physical training and biking thereafter. But doctors did not recommend to continue the weight training he had done before.

All was well till last autumn, when the pain came back.

Investigations showed that the stenosis is back and discs are sliding now above and below those that were jointed.
Doctors (2nd opinion, too) did not offer many alternatives. It was like "do your training and come back for another surgery if pain gets too hard or if paralysis develops".

DH's new physiotherapist has a small studio with some weight machines and developed a little program for DH. DH goes 2-3 times/week. Since then relatively pain free, much better than in autumn.

But now one of his knees produces pain after 30 min walks. Could be arthrosis. DH is pretty much tired of seeing doctors for all his different health issues. But being able to walk and bike is somehow the key for a lot we wanted to do in ER starting next year.
We will find solutions or alternatives...

 

[Alan]

My condition has slowly gotten better each day, and today I went ahead with the steroid injection, just about 5 or 6 hours ago. It seems to already be working, I am able to stand, sit, or walk without pain.

I'm still scared to make any sudden movements, and I think my running days will be severely diminished if not done. Strangely, even before the injection and when I was unable to sit or stand for very long, I was able to ride my bike without pain. On Saturday I rode for an hour without any problem.

The radiologist who did it and one of the nurses both said they have had these done as well, which was somewhat reassuring. He looked at my MRI and said my condition was about a 3 on a 1-10 scale, 10 being the worst. He also said he does this frequently for the Saints and Hornets players, and some of them are in much worse shape.

In the few hours that have passed since I was at the hospital, I think this has been a success. I'm supposed to start PT soon.

I'm very pleased to hear of your improvement and interested to hear about the bike riding. Whenever my back is bad I find that riding my bike helps enormously. DW can't understand how someone who has had lower back surgery finds that bike riding improves things, but it definitely does.

Forget running for the forseeable future. These days I can run, play tennis etc, but I wear a back brace when I do those activities. (I don't wear my back brace when I ride my bike, do yoga etc)

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Rode my bike to work today, stayed for 2.5 hours until some pain came back and my body told me to take a break! So still not cured, but it seems better than before seeing the doc yesterday. After lunch, I'll ride back to work again for a little while.

One of the pilots in my squadron told me he had the same thing happen to him several years ago. The flight surgeon wanted him to fuse his 2 lowest vertebrae together, but it went away on its own after several months. I had no idea that so many people have had sciatic nerve issues. Seems like the medical community could wrap their arms around this better, but I suspect the parochialism between MDs, DOs, PTs, and chiropracters is a reason why the experts can't agree on a way to fix things.

 

[mystang52]

"So still not cured..." I think you're on the right course to recovery. The injection helped, and subsequent one may increase the benefit. Staying physically active, within limitations, will also aid your recovery.
But in the end you likely won't get to 100% "cured," although you will be functional and reasonably pain-free (or, tolerable pain during flare-ups).
I recall reading that most medical studies verify key is to maintain an exercise regimen. And if all esle fails, you still have the surgery-as-a-last-resort option.

 

[rgarling]

This person's advice, although unconventional, rings true: YouTube - Authors@Google: Esther Gokhale

 

[Cato]

I'm very pleased to hear of your improvement and interested to hear about the bike riding. Whenever my back is bad I find that riding my bike helps enormously. DW can't understand how someone who has had lower back surgery finds that bike riding improves things, but it definitely does.

I have heard the story about biking before and the explanation seems to be that when your lumbar spine bends forward, the spine axis shifts to the front of the spine and the back of the disk space and the neuroforamina (openings between the vertebral bodies through which the nerve roots exit the spine) at the back, open up and relieve the pressure on the nerve roots.

 

[Alan]

I have heard the story about biking before and the explanation seems to be that when your lumbar spine bends forward, the spine axis shifts to the front of the spine and the back of the disk space and the neuroforamina (openings between the vertebral bodies through which the nerve roots exit the spine) at the back, open up and relieve the pressure on the nerve roots.

yes, that sounds right

Thanks for the explanation

 

[wolf]

DH (59) had L4/L5 surgery for sliding discs with disk replacement and spinal stenosis 3,5 years ago. He did lots of walking, daily careful physical training and biking thereafter. But doctors did not recommend to continue the weight training he had done before.

All was well till last autumn, when the pain came back.

Investigations showed that the stenosis is back and discs are sliding now above and below those that were jointed.
Doctors (2nd opinion, too) did not offer many alternatives. It was like "do your training and come back for another surgery if pain gets too hard or if paralysis develops".

DH's new physiotherapist has a small studio with some weight machines and developed a little program for DH. DH goes 2-3 times/week. Since then relatively pain free, much better than in autumn.

But now one of his knees produces pain after 30 min walks. Could be arthrosis. DH is pretty much tired of seeing doctors for all his different health issues. But being able to walk and bike is somehow the key for a lot we wanted to do in ER starting next year.
We will find solutions or alternatives...

Interesting on "select" weight bearing exercise helps. Helped in my case. (see previous response). If something as simple as exercising with weights works, it's a much better alternative than surgery.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Sounds logical to me. I would think the key is to put minimal weight on the spine. For example, bench press is ok, while squats with heavy weights are probably out. Even dumbell bicep curls are probably not recommended, as your spine bears the constant load, but you could instead do preacher curls. Exercises in which you pull a cable down, actually might have the opposite effect, stretching out the back.

I start PT on Monday, and this is all good info for me to bring to the appointment.

 

[Nords]

My condition has slowly gotten better each day, and today I went ahead with the steroid injection, just about 5 or 6 hours ago. It seems to already be working, I am able to stand, sit, or walk without pain.
In the few hours that have passed since I was at the hospital, I think this has been a success. I'm supposed to start PT soon.

Sounds logical to me. I would think the key is to put minimal weight on the spine.
I start PT on Monday, and this is all good info for me to bring to the appointment.

I'm glad you're getting quality treatment. I'll bet the PT gives you plenty of squat & lunge practice, too...

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Everything has gotten better each day. Until today. I went to church, and I think the uncomfortable pews got the best of me. I'll try and rest more today than I have been. hopefully it's just a bump in the road to recovery.

Overall, PT has been going well, I went for the past 2 weeks and it really helps. Tomorrow I am supposed to see the neurosurgeon again, followed by physical therapy in the afternoon. If it's up to me, it will be the last time to see the neurosurgeon.

I now will need a waiver to fly again for the Navy (not really a big deal, as most aviators are on some kind of medical waiver). I am supposed to have 60 days of being pain-free to get a waiver. I'm not quite ready to start that clock yet.

 

[Nords]

Everything has gotten better each day. Until today. I went to church, and I think the uncomfortable pews got the best of me. I'll try and rest more today than I have been. hopefully it's just a bump in the road to recovery.
Overall, PT has been going well, I went for the past 2 weeks and it really helps. Tomorrow I am supposed to see the neurosurgeon again, followed by physical therapy in the afternoon. If it's up to me, it will be the last time to see the neurosurgeon.

Whew. Glad to hear things are going better. You can make a lot of progress on PT.

I wouldn't be so concerned about the flying as I would be about the catapults and the arresting wires. But that's why I volunteered for sub pay...

 

[deserat]

Actually, exercise is key for many things - on my second ACL reconstruction surgery recovery and when I don't do the home PT exercises....it hurts.

As for the back, my stepmother had spinal stenosis and then went to a specific orthopedic hospital in North Carolina for surgery - they put a rod in her back - she has bounced back amazingly, no more pain, all is much better. She can't bend to tie her shoes and needs the car to be high to get in and out, but other than that, she's good. Prognosis before surgery was wheelchair and crappy quality of life - oh, and she's an NPR - knows lots about all this healthcare stuff.

In any case, I agree with ha - this thread is one of the best as there are many options to choose from before going under the knife. Very good to know as surgery is a serious thing - always. The surgeon could screw up, the anesthesiologist could screw up, you could catch some bacterial or viral disease not related to your main health issue - yikes! And I worked and do work in hospitals.....

 

[chris2008]

Deserat, congrats to your stepmothers success with surgery. How long has it been now?

I hope that her long term result is better than DH. Now 3 years after surgery he is back in pain when walking for more than a mile. He does his PT, but still...
I understand that it is very depressing for him. We have looked forward to ER with excitement. However, with that pain some of our plans turn out to be not much fun for him.

 

[deserat]

Deserat, congrats to your stepmothers success with surgery. How long has it been now?

I hope that her long term result is better than DH. Now 3 years after surgery he is back in pain when walking for more than a mile. He does his PT, but still...
I understand that it is very depressing for him. We have looked forward to ER with excitement. However, with that pain some of our plans turn out to be not much fun for him.

Two years - her PT afterwards took quite a bit of time, but she's good now....as you say, we'll see what happens.

She's 66 and she and my father (70) are slowing down a bit...although both still work - they both teach at universities and she does clinical work once a week - sigh, the whole idea of early retirement to them is anathema - my Dad said his mind would go to mush....

 

[Nords]

She's 66 and she and my father (70) are slowing down a bit...although both still work - they both teach at universities and she does clinical work once a week - sigh, the whole idea of early retirement to them is anathema - my Dad said his mind would go to mush....

They have no reason to stop working, let alone any incentive...

I think I'd be a bit chagrined if one of my new students came up to me and gushed "Grandma says you were the best teacher she ever had!!"

 

[deserat]

They have no reason to stop working, let alone any incentive...

I think I'd be a bit chagrined if one of my new students came up to me and gushed "Grandma says you were the best teacher she ever had!!"

Even more off-topic:

Last time I was out there, I was sitting with my Dad waiting for the local BBQ place to get our orders ready to go....Dad made some comment about how if he died then or even much later, I would be a wealthy 'young lady.' Huh?!? I've been told I'm the executor (after his wife, my step mom), but not much else.....one other time he told me what he had invested in and I said "What the " It's scary to think I'm more savvy financially than them, but then I don't think he's all that interested - I offered to look at things for them, but their attitude is one of "MYOB." That's fine. If they keep working, then finances won't be the issue....Oh, and I told him to spend his money, I'm doing just fine, thank you.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

I did it again. Was at the dermatologist's office, rolled over while lying on a table, and BAM! Pain was level 10 again, and back to the ER, yes again. After about 90 minutes, pain went down to about 7, then they finally gave me a couple of shots and sent me home. I thought I was being careful, too. I called my flight surgeon, who is a reservist, but in the real world has his own practice in pain management. He still recommends going for the conservative, non-surgical treatment. He says surgery is a crapshoot, and only about 30% successful. Another neurosurgeon says herniated discs heal themselves up about 80% of the time, but it can take a long time.

Well, at age 38, I have successfully proven that I'm not Superman.

Sorry if I appear to be threadjacking, but this helps me to keep a log to track my ups and downs. And I most certainly appreciate everyone else's input.

 

[haha]

I did it again. Was at the dermatologist's office, rolled over while lying on a table, and BAM! Pain was level 10 again, and back to the ER, yes again. After about 90 minutes, pain went down to about 7, then they finally gave me a couple of shots and sent me home. I thought I was being careful, too. I called my flight surgeon, who is a reservist, but in the real world has his own practice in pain management. He still recommends going for the conservative, non-surgical treatment. He says surgery is a crapshoot, and only about 30% successful. Another neurosurgeon says herniated discs heal themselves up about 80% of the time, but it can take a long time.

Well, at age 38, I have successfully proven that I'm not Superman.

Sorry if I appear to be threadjacking, but this helps me to keep a log to track my ups and downs. And I most certainly appreciate everyone else's input.

I am sorry that you are hurting.

Every case and every person is different- but a close friend has been scheduled for his fifth back surgery. The good news is that they have not yet crippled or killed him; the bad news is that he gets only about 6 weeks of relief from each surgery.

Ha

 

[TromboneAl]

Today, while recovering from my bike crash injuries, I was moving a 10 lb weight and strained my back. Not too bad but sheesh.

I mention it because maybe it happened because I missed 3 weight training sessions due to the big bike trip.

 

[Nords]

Today, while recovering from my bike crash injuries, I was moving a 10 lb weight and strained my back. Not too bad but sheesh.
I mention it because maybe it happened because I missed 3 weight training sessions due to the big bike trip.

Or maybe it happened because every single freakin' muscle in your body underwent a rapid deceleration last weekend, with some of those muscles providing the decelerating friction while others applied rotational force to the rest of your organs!

Just for fun, sometime you might want to take a garage-sale used bike helmet and try to crack it in the same place yours was cracked. It's probably a good idea not to do this where Lena could see it. If you haven't done this exercise before then you'll be unhappily impressed with the results.

 

[TromboneAl]

Good point.

Today I'm reminded once again to never ever take for granted the ability to go for a walk or just have all your body parts working.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Much better week for me. What seems to be working the best is using the McKenzie method. McKenzie is a physical therapist from NZ who is quite highly regarded in his field. If anyone here with back pain or related problems has not ordered one of his books, I strongly recommend it. At a minimum, ask your healthcare provider about McKenzie. Pretty much what I do is some simple stretching exercises. When done EXACTLY as directed, they have diminished most of my issues, including ALL of the pain. Currently I just have some weakness in my rt calf muscle, a slight limp, and sometimes a mild tingly sensation in my rt foot.

I have all the patience of someone in my generation (i.e., almost none), so I tend to push things, and I have to be reminded by my physical therapist and others to take it slow. Healing your spine takes time, since the blood supply is minimal.

 

[Nords]

Healing your spine takes time, since the blood supply is minimal.

I'm glad it's going better, because I've been holding on to this one for a few weeks!

A couple promotions should take care of that spinal issue:

 

[TromboneAl]

My back strain was worse than I thought. Combined with my bruised thigh, bending down is an issue.

Here's an observation about back pain. My bruised thigh hurts, but it's just pain, and you can just live with it. But with the back pain, there's always the threat that if you move wrong, it will go into spasm and make everything worse. You get those twinges to remind you of that.