I need advice about intermittent fasting

[W2R]

Whenever this topic comes up I'm always reminded of something I read years ago by Garrison Keillor. He said that when you get into your 50s, you need to forget the concept of "3 meals a day." At that age you should really be looking at "one meal and two snacks."

That made a lot of sense to me.

I'm so old that for me I think this concept has morphed into one snack and two [-]smaller snacks[/-] tiny tidbits.

 

[Chuckanut]

I may try this myself. But, for me, I will skip dinner in the evening. I am an early riser and skipping breakfast is just that much harder.

I am thinking of having a good breakfast as usual, a good lunch and then perhaps a light snack around 6 PM. After the snack nothing but water until the next breakfast. That would be a 12 hour fast each day. Of course, I would continue to avoid highly processed foods/carbs/sweets.

The key seems to be fasting for 12 hours. After that the law of diminishing returns seems to take over and one gets less 'good' health' per hour of fasting.

https://info.dralexrinehart.com/art...hours-lose-weight-prevent-disease-live-longer

 

[LOL!]

I used to go light on breakfast, but now I try to eat a 700 calorie breakfast. I think it has kept me from snacking during the day. I do get hungry especially if I am doing my usual fun stuff: hiking, cycling, running, dog walking. But I am a light eater for lunch and dinner. For instance, I can make a Chipotle bowl last for 3 full meals.

I am not assiduous about carbs, but tend to avoid rice, pasta, breads, potatoes, sugars and allow oatmeal. Metabolic / cardiac / BMI numbers are good, but that doesn't mean I won't keel over today or tomorrow.

As for HbA1c, I think you might be able to goose your number if you:
1. Donate blood on schedule (say every 60 days), and
2. Try an extreme no carb, no sugar, no glucose diet for 4 months.

The blood donation should get rid of existing hemoglobin with lots of carbohydrate attached and the low carb, no sugar diet should reduce the attachment of oligosaccharides to the fresh hemoglobin created by the need for more of it by the blood donation.

Make sure your spleen is healthy so that is scavenges away the red blood cells, too.

If after 6 months, your HbA1c is unchanged, I would be surprised, but let us know.

 

[6miths]

The idea of donating blood to drop one's HbA1c is misguided. It definitely works but it doesn't mean that one is any healthier. Having an increase in glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c) is not harmful to your health, it is all of the other proteins and substances that are being glycated that are the problem. HbA1c is just a marker for the rate at which this is occurring, and this is proportional to one's level of blood glucose. By donating blood, one would be effectively shortening the average red blood cell lifespan, this means less exposure to blood glucose and thus reduces HbA1c levels. So the HbA1c level looks better but all of the other stuff is still being glycated and causing trouble.

 

[LOL!]

The idea of donating blood to drop one's HbA1c is misguided.

I thought I made that clear by using the word "goose."

I wonder if intermittent fasting also has an element of goosing. And I would be concerned about creating an eating disorder where one does not exist.

 

[John Galt III]

Gee, I thought I was being bad by skipping breakfast. I remember all those 'breakfast is the most important meal of the day' public service announcements I used to hear all the time.

 

[walkinwood]

Does having coffee or tea result in breaking the fast?



An early dinner and a late breakfast and I could easily do a 14-15 hour fast every day. But I like my morning cup of coffee.

 

[HFWR]

If you were/are a hard-scrabble farmer, up at 5am to milk the cows, before plowing with a team of mules, before cutting hay with a scythe, etc., breakfast was likely important. If you’re sitting on your rump, drinking coffee and surfing the nets, maybe not so much...

 

[6miths]

I thought I made that clear by using the word "goose."

I wonder if intermittent fasting also has an element of goosing. And I would be concerned about creating an eating disorder where one does not exist.

Apologies but your meaning wasn't clear to me.

In my opinion, the idea of intermittent fasting of 12-16h duration (which in my mind isn't fasting at all) is more to get the body back to a more normal state where insulin levels can get low enough to let the body actually use fat for fuel like it was meant to do.

 

[LOL!]

Apologies but your meaning wasn't clear to me.

In my opinion, the idea of intermittent fasting of 12-16h duration (which in my mind isn't fasting at all) is more to get the body back to a more normal state where insulin levels can get low enough to let the body actually use fat for fuel like it was meant to do.

Another way to get the body to use fat for fuel is to use up all available glucose and glycogen by exercise. In the old days, this may have been called "hitting the wall." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

 

[zinger1457]

If you were/are a hard-scrabble farmer, up at 5am to milk the cows, before plowing with a team of mules, before cutting hay with a scythe, etc., breakfast was likely important. If you’re sitting on your rump, drinking coffee and surfing the nets, maybe not so much...

I think most of us fit somewhere between the farmer and the couch potato. Unless your a bean pole with 1% body fat your body has a lot of reserves. I walk 18 holes of golf 3-4 days a week, go on 6-10 miles hikes on the other days, all before my first meal of the day. I make sure to stay hydrated but don't feel like my energy level is lacking from not having food before hand.

 

[HFWR]

I think most of us fit somewhere between the farmer and the couch potato. Unless your a bean pole with 1% body fat your body has a lot of reserves. I walk 18 holes of golf 3-4 days a week, go on 6-10 miles hikes on the other days, all before my first meal of the day. I make sure to stay hydrated but don't feel like my energy level is lacking from not having food before hand.

I almost always had breakfast when I was w*rking, and I’m usually hungry after a night’s sleep. Since retiring, I usually have 3-4 cups of coffee, then, depending on how I feel, I’ll do a “weight day”, consisting of a mile warm-up walk, then three sets of 12 reps on chest, back, shoulder, and lat machines, with a third of a mile walk/rest between, or a non-weight day with a 3-4 mile walk. Often this works okay, though sometimes I bonk, thus the “depending on”. Don’t think I could reliably walk 6-10 miles before bonking... Bicycling definitely requires pre-fueling, but then an hour or two before.

 

[6miths]

Another way to get the body to use fat for fuel is to use up all available glucose and glycogen by exercise. In the old days, this may have been called "hitting the wall." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

Sure but not many people going that route and those that do don't usually have an issue with too much adipose. Fasting for 12 hours should exhaust glucose/glycogen stores.

 

[H2ODude]

Does having coffee or tea result in breaking the fast?



An early dinner and a late breakfast and I could easily do a 14-15 hour fast every day. But I like my morning cup of coffee.

Saw a discussion on Reddit about this that basically said there was no evidence one way or the other about this. Take that for what it's worth. Cup of coffee easily tides me over when hungry.

 

[Dawg52]

I think most of us fit somewhere between the farmer and the couch potato. Unless your a bean pole with 1% body fat your body has a lot of reserves. I walk 18 holes of golf 3-4 days a week, go on 6-10 miles hikes on the other days, all before my first meal of the day. I make sure to stay hydrated but don't feel like my energy level is lacking from not having food before hand.

Perhaps I could adjust, but unless I have breakfast before golf I run out of gas when playing in the morning. And I ride. Ha. I could do no breakfast on those non golfing days. And breakfast plus late afternoon meal on golfing days.

Bottom line I do need to switch to 2 meals a day. Mind over matter. Whenever I've had to fast for a medical procedure I've never had a problem with it. December 26 will be a good time to start the new routine.

 

[imoldernu]

Sheesh... no idea about the "right" thing to do, but some things that work for me.

1. Subliminal effect of a permanent easy to use scale in the bathroom.
2. Growing old...lose muscle mass.
3. Discover foods that satisfy for in between snacks. Favorites for me...
--a. celery with a touch of salt.
--b. apples... not munched, but sliced into 10 to 12 pieces.
4. 3 days/week... exercise in moderation.

Am healthier now, than in my 50's. Blood panel normal, BP normal...

Maybe you wouldn't want to trade your age for a healthier body, but consider the alternative.

 

[GreenER]

I am an early riser and was always a breakfast person. I don't think so could have done this when I was working, but I started doing 16/8 IF about two months ago and have been surprised how easy it has been for me. I usually don't eat after 7 pm, but if social activities have me eating slightly later on occasion, I just wait a bit longer before eating the next day. I take DF out to breakfast one day a week and do IF the other 6 days. DH is a late riser so skipping breakfast works as we can still have dinner together. I do have a cup of coffee with some coconut oil in it in the mornings but the medium chain triglycerides are supposed to give your brain some fuel without triggering insulin. Otherwise we eat a plant based diet with as little refined food as possible. I've thus far lost 8 pounds painlessly since starting IF, and it's seemed to come off my middle mostly! I do feel better and more energized. I'm usually up by 5:30 and so I have about 6 hours in the morning before eating but I get my walking and/or yoga in before eating and I rarely feel that hunger is an issue. Have learned that a lot of times what we mistake for hunger is really thirst. The other bonus is that mornings were the time I was more likely to eat carbs as well.

 

[NW-Bound]

Gee, I thought I was being bad by skipping breakfast. I remember all those 'breakfast is the most important meal of the day' public service announcements I used to hear all the time.

+1

We normally skip breakfast, and I usually eat nothing between the 6PM dinner and 11AM lunch. Just learned that it is called IF, and supposedly good for me.

 

[gcgang]

Lately, I've found a good way to lose my appetite is to check my brokerage balances.

 

[sengsational]

Does having coffee or tea result in breaking the fast?.

My assumption has been that zero calories things like black coffee or plain tea would be legal. I have fish oil in the AM, which seems less legit than my cups of tea.

 

[6miths]

My assumption has been that zero calories things like black coffee or plain tea would be legal. I have fish oil in the AM, which seems less legit than my cups of tea.

My understanding too. If you add sugar that for sure counts. Fish oil would be breaking the fast but not necessarily defeating the idea of the fast as insulin levels wouldn't go up in response to the pure fat intake.

 

[slowsaver]

I've been doing IF for 2 years, and feel great. I started by moving my breakfast out 1-hour later than normal (8am instead of 7am). When that felt normal (after a couple months), I moved it out another hour, and repeat. Finally, after eating breakfast at 11am felt easy, I just stopped eating breakfast and had lunch at 12pm. Took about 1 year for me to do that.

I did 16:8 fast for about a year (eating window: 12pm to 8pm). Then that felt really easy, and I'm now doing 18:6 (eating window: 1pm to 7pm). I'm feeling good and my fasting blood glucose measurements are slightly lower than 5 years ago, and they are even with 10 years ago.

I also make a point to do low-impact exercise in the morning, during my fast (e.g. walking, gardening, yoga, slow bike rides). It takes my mind off my stomach, and maybe burns a little extra fat. I also drink black coffee during my fast, which is an appetite suppressant. I lost the weight I wanted to lose, and have had no problem maintaining that weight for 2+ years now.

I still eat 3 meals a day, it's just that it's more compressed: 1pm, 3:30pm, 6:30pm -- similar to this NIH study of 16:8 fasting benefits: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5064803/

 

[robnplunder]

Like the immediately above post ....

I posted my experience on the intermittent fasting in this forum before. My goal was to lose the stubborn beer belly. To make a long story short, I ate two meals in 6 hour period and lost 10% of my body weight including the beer belly. It also improved many aspects of my health. This strategy has been working fine for more than a year now. Now, I no longer has to do 6-18 IF. I just try to eat two meals per day. If I eat more than that and starts to gain weight, I try to eat just one meal the next day.

As with all diets, discipline is the key to success. No way around it.

 

[ER Eddie]

No way around discipline, true, but there is a way to reduce the need for discipline (meaning denying yourself food while feeling quite hungry). This is probably clear to most people reading the thread, but the type of food you're consuming has a big impact on the level of discipline required. Eating meals relatively high in protein and fat will lead to feelings of satiety that will last for many hours, whereas eating high-carb, low-fat meals will leave you hungry a few hours later and require more discipline/self-denial.

I'm not the most disciplined guy. I'm kind of lazy. I wouldn't do IF if it required a lot of self-discipline. But on a ketogenic/carnivore diet, it's quite easy. That's one of the things that appeals to me about this way of eating. A ribeye and some sausage or fish, and I'm good.

I have a little hunger sometimes in the morning hours, before my breakfast at 11 or 12, but it's nothing, really. I think of it as kind of natural. If I were a caveman, I probably wouldn't be eating first thing in the morning.


Fun fact: Kellogg developed Corn Flakes as a way to curb masturbation.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/32042/corn-flakes-were-invented-part-anti-masturbation-crusade

 

[WWDog]

An alternative to fasting and caloric restriction.


Caloric Restriction, Fasting and Nicotinamide Riboside



I have been using Nicotinamide Riboside (brand name Niagen and there are a few others) for some time and it has great benefits. It is a bit costly but I think the cost is less than treating all the potential metabolic health issues.