Insulin Prices Lawsuit

Car-Guy

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It's about time someone with enough power tries to take on these drug manufactures/distributors/insurance companies for unfair pricing and trade practices. Insulin cost/availability is a good place to start.


Philly DA sues nearly 20 pharmaceutical companies over insulin prices

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...utical-companies-over-insulin-prices/3812301/


How DO you determine a "fair" or "unfair" price for a life-saving drug? Bread and butter drugs (those that a large portion of the population need) pay the billions of dollars to bring the NEXT block-buster to the market. We could all pay aspirin prices for all drugs going forward IF (big IF) we were willing never to have a new drug come on the market.

It's one of those conundrums of the drug market. As a drug consumer - I hate the high prices. BUT I do look forward to a pill that will prevent my A-Fib or kill the cancer in my lungs. I'd pay a LOT for either of those. Turns out the "lot" I'm paying is up front. For instance, the huge amount I pay to prevent a stroke from A-Fib is called Eliquis. It doesn't cure A-Fib but helps prevent a stroke. Give me a pill that will cure my A-Fib and I'll pay you a LOT more than I pay for Eliquis. I hope whoever gets several dollars per Eliquis tab is investing that in the drug I need to save my life. I rest in the thought that IF there is money to be made, the drug companies are w*rking on those drugs. "Doing well by doing good" may be too strong a statement for the "evil" drug companies, but it's close enough if they develop the pill I happen to need. Clearly, YMMV.

I always go back to the example of the acid blockers (followed by proton pump inhibitors.) Back in the day, people died from ulcers and/or spent a fortune on stomach removal. Not now. How much WOULD you pay for that? What is "fair"? I don't have the answer but I know it's not a trivial matter to patients OR drug company giants. It IS a conundrum. Again, YMMV.
 
How DO you determine a "fair" or "unfair" price for a life-saving drug? Bread and butter drugs (those that a large portion of the population need) pay the billions of dollars to bring the NEXT block-buster to the market. We could all pay aspirin prices for all drugs going forward IF (big IF) we were willing never to have a new drug come on the market.

It's one of those conundrums of the drug market. As a drug consumer - I hate the high prices. BUT I do look forward to a pill that will prevent my A-Fib or kill the cancer in my lungs. I'd pay a LOT for either of those. Turns out the "lot" I'm paying is up front. For instance, the huge amount I pay to prevent a stroke from A-Fib is called Eliquis. It doesn't cure A-Fib but helps prevent a stroke. Give me a pill that will cure my A-Fib and I'll pay you a LOT more than I pay for Eliquis. I hope whoever gets several dollars per Eliquis tab is investing that in the drug I need to save my life. I rest in the thought that IF there is money to be made, the drug companies are w*rking on those drugs. "Doing well by doing good" may be too strong a statement for the "evil" drug companies, but it's close enough if they develop the pill I happen to need. Clearly, YMMV.

I always go back to the example of the acid blockers (followed by proton pump inhibitors.) Back in the day, people died from ulcers and/or spent a fortune on stomach removal. Not now. How much WOULD you pay for that? What is "fair"? I don't have the answer but I know it's not a trivial matter to patients OR drug company giants. It IS a conundrum. Again, YMMV.

Good post Koolau!!
 
I think the point is insulin used to be far cheaper and widely available. Somehow prices got raised and availability reduced.
 
And the cost to produce insulin is a miniscule fraction of the profit. It's been around as a drug for 100 years, so any R&D has long long ago been recovered. The current costs are very much padded by pharmacies and other middle men, it's not just a producer>consumer commodity by any means.
 
I think the point is insulin used to be far cheaper and widely available. Somehow prices got raised and availability reduced.

And the cost to produce insulin is a miniscule fraction of the profit. It's been around as a drug for 100 years, so any R&D has long long ago been recovered. The current costs are very much padded by pharmacies and other middle men, it's not just a producer>consumer commodity by any means.
You both got it pretty well in IMO....
 
And the cost to produce insulin is a miniscule fraction of the profit. It's been around as a drug for 100 years, so any R&D has long long ago been recovered. The current costs are very much padded by pharmacies and other middle men, it's not just a producer>consumer commodity by any means.

Yep.
 
Modern insulins are much better than the old pork/beef products and they are more expensive to produce than tablets of small molecule drugs like aspirin. However, they've been around for 30ish years by now and manufacturers have long since recouped their investments. If you ever watch TV (who does that anymore?) you'll see where pharmaceutical companies spend a lot of money — marketing. Jardiance, as we all know, is really swell.
 
And the cost to produce insulin is a miniscule fraction of the profit. It's been around as a drug for 100 years, so any R&D has long long ago been recovered. The current costs are very much padded by pharmacies and other middle men, it's not just a producer>consumer commodity by any means.

Production costs for MOST drugs become minuscule eventually. Most drugs are produced in batches of tons - not pills. Likely the biggest production cost is quality control or plant and equipment overhead.

But in the case of insulin, the price can be maintained high because not just any Tom Dick or Harry can make a generic equivalent. It's not like aspirin that you could probably mix up at home if you had the ingredients and lab equipment.

It's probably true that drug companies could sell insulin cheaper if they only considered their production costs. Insulin is a profit center for these drug companies and they DO exploit it (how utterly evil to take advantage of their ability to produce a product that not everyone can produce.:LOL:)

IF they put those outrageous profits to good use (say, the first good Alz. drug or a new diabetes drug or maybe even a cure for cancer) I guess we should feel proud to have overpaid for insulin to make that possible.:cool:

Please do not misunderstand: I'm not an advocate for the evil drug companies (well, not quite true as I DO own their stock!:facepalm:) I just think we need to understand that there are more than "simple" market forces at w*rk here. Drugs (and especially their pricing strategies) are much more complicated than, say, fertilizer or Coca Cola. Oh, and do you have any idea what it costs to produce a bottle of Coke? It's a lot LOT less than the Buck or Four that you pay for a 2-liter bottle. LOTs of gross profit in there. (Oh, and full disclosure, I DO own Coke stock too - in my MFs.)

The way to tell if you truly believe drug (or oil or car or utility, etc.) companies are "gouging" the people is whether you own their stock or not. If you believe they have an advantage that allows them to "gouge," you will own their stock because it will almost certainly have a rising stock price. Probably the single best predictor of success of a company is it's ability to raise prices in order to raise its profits. Not all companies can do that. Those that can, typically have rapidly increasing stock prices.


Returning you now... (It's time for me to take my Eliquis.:mad:)
 
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How DO you determine a "fair" or "unfair" price for a life-saving drug? Bread and butter drugs (those that a large portion of the population need) pay the billions of dollars to bring the NEXT block-buster to the market. We could all pay aspirin prices for all drugs going forward IF (big IF) we were willing never to have a new drug come on the market.

It's one of those conundrums of the drug market. As a drug consumer - I hate the high prices. BUT I do look forward to a pill that will prevent my A-Fib or kill the cancer in my lungs. I'd pay a LOT for either of those. Turns out the "lot" I'm paying is up front. For instance, the huge amount I pay to prevent a stroke from A-Fib is called Eliquis. It doesn't cure A-Fib but helps prevent a stroke. Give me a pill that will cure my A-Fib and I'll pay you a LOT more than I pay for Eliquis. I hope whoever gets several dollars per Eliquis tab is investing that in the drug I need to save my life. I rest in the thought that IF there is money to be made, the drug companies are w*rking on those drugs. "Doing well by doing good" may be too strong a statement for the "evil" drug companies, but it's close enough if they develop the pill I happen to need. Clearly, YMMV.

I always go back to the example of the acid blockers (followed by proton pump inhibitors.) Back in the day, people died from ulcers and/or spent a fortune on stomach removal. Not now. How much WOULD you pay for that? What is "fair"? I don't have the answer but I know it's not a trivial matter to patients OR drug company giants. It IS a conundrum. Again, YMMV.

At the very, very least, I hope that you DO realize that Americans pay outrageous drug prices simply so that Canadians, Mexicans and much of the rest of the world can get the very same drugs for pennies on the dollar.
 
At the very, very least, I hope that you DO realize that Americans pay outrageous drug prices simply so that Canadians, Mexicans and much of the rest of the world can get the very same drugs for pennies on the dollar.


Absolutely and that is why I said in the opening post:

It's about time someone with enough power tries to take on these drug manufactures/distributors/insurance companies for unfair pricing and trade practices. Insulin cost/availability is a good place to start.
 
I believe the clincher would be to determine what insulin is being sold for in other western countries.

The truth will lie in the numbers.
 
I believe the clincher would be to determine what insulin is being sold for in other western countries.

The truth will lie in the numbers.


https://aspe.hhs.gov/reports/comparing-insulin-prices-us-other-countries

The Office of the Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation (ASPE) requested that RAND Health Care compare U.S. insulin prices to those paid internationally by Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) countries for which we have prescription drug data. RAND found that the average gross manufacturer price for a standard unit of insulin in 2018 was more than ten times the price in a sample of 32 foreign countries: • $98.70 in the U.S. • $8.81 in the 32 non-U.S. OECD countries for which we have prescription drug data
 
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At the very, very least, I hope that you DO realize that Americans pay outrageous drug prices simply so that Canadians, Mexicans and much of the rest of the world can get the very same drugs for pennies on the dollar.


Absolutely I know of the disparity. There are lots of reasons - mostly because OUS countries set prices while the USA allows individual "entities" WITHIN the USA to negotiate prices. If a drug company won't sell at the price a COUNTRY sets - they don't get to sell that drug in that country. So most drug companies cave in and sell at the dictated country price. They still make SOME money - just not the huge profits they make in the USA.

USA itself (still) does not "believe" in setting prices. USA still believes (for a while longer) markets will set prices.

In the USA, drug companies have been willing to say "NO to insurers. We will not sell to you at that price." We (Americans) still demand "new and improved" drugs so the "payers" have to negotiate the prices. It's not the full price in most cases, but it's a LOT!

Sometimes, the insurers or other "payers" simply say "There is another drug that's almost as good. We refuse to include XYZ drug on our formulary unless ABC drug company lowers their price." Sometimes the answer is "NO. Use our competitor's 'inferior' drug and see how your customers like it. Let us know if you change your mind." I mentioned elsewhere that I take Eliquis. I could take Warfarin. It's so cheap, it's almost free. I "demand" Eliquis because the side-effect profile is almost infinitely better AND Eliquis requires maybe 2 or 3 blood tests a year instead of monthly. If I couldn't "afford" Eliquis, I'd be glad that the old stand-by Warfarin is still around, but, I want the best (for me.)


I actually had to change from Jardiance to Farxiga because my drug insurance would no longer cover Jardiance (too expensive.) SO, I take a drug that my doctor didn't want to prescribe for me. It does save me money that way, but it's not what my doctor ordered. WHOLE countries are now doing what my insurance company is doing. It saves the patient money, but may not supply the best drug. It's very much a YMMV situation. What is the old addage: Cheap or Best - you pick.

At the bottom line level, the big downside of drug price control in general is that drug companies have to spend one to three billion dollars to bring a new drug to market. They get that money from sales. If prices are controlled, then effectively the number of new drugs will also be "controlled." Pay me now or pay me later, etc. etc. The unintended consequence is that the USA (as you point out) PAYS for most of the new drug development! When that changes, I suspect that the gummint will take over drug development. We'll still be paying, but at least we won't let the greedy, evil drug companies make their obscene profits. At best, we'll just have fewer new drugs. I vote for the later, but YMMV.

I'm not suggesting right or wrong or good or bad. Just saying that there's no free lunch. If you want "the best" or "latest" and the drug company doesn't think they can make money, they won't develop a new drug. While you are waiting for drug-price controls in the USA, buy drug company stock - especially if you hate them for the pricing power. Use the money you make on their stock to pay for the outrageously priced, top-tier drugs! Beat them at their own game.



Of course, if you don't really believe the drug companies have pricing power as everyone suggests - maybe better not buy their stock. Back up contentions with money. Again, YMMV.
 
Absolutely I know of the disparity. There are lots of reasons - mostly because OUS countries set prices while the USA allows individual "entities" WITHIN the USA to negotiate prices. If a drug company won't sell at the price a COUNTRY sets - they don't get to sell that drug in that country. So most drug companies cave in and sell at the dictated country price. They still make SOME money - just not the huge profits they make in the USA.

USA itself (still) does not "believe" in setting prices. USA still believes (for a while longer) markets will set prices.

In the USA, drug companies have been willing to say "NO to insurers. We will not sell to you at that price." We (Americans) still demand "new and improved" drugs so the "payers" have to negotiate the prices. It's not the full price in most cases, but it's a LOT!

Sometimes, the insurers or other "payers" simply say "There is another drug that's almost as good. We refuse to include XYZ drug on our formulary unless ABC drug company lowers their price." Sometimes the answer is "NO. Use our competitor's 'inferior' drug and see how your customers like it. Let us know if you change your mind." I mentioned elsewhere that I take Eliquis. I could take Warfarin. It's so cheap, it's almost free. I "demand" Eliquis because the side-effect profile is almost infinitely better AND Eliquis requires maybe 2 or 3 blood tests a year instead of monthly. If I couldn't "afford" Eliquis, I'd be glad that the old stand-by Warfarin is still around, but, I want the best (for me.)


I actually had to change from Jardiance to Farxiga because my drug insurance would no longer cover Jardiance (too expensive.) SO, I take a drug that my doctor didn't want to prescribe for me. It does save me money that way, but it's not what my doctor ordered. WHOLE countries are now doing what my insurance company is doing. It saves the patient money, but may not supply the best drug. It's very much a YMMV situation. What is the old addage: Cheap or Best - you pick.

At the bottom line level, the big downside of drug price control in general is that drug companies have to spend one to three billion dollars to bring a new drug to market. They get that money from sales. If prices are controlled, then effectively the number of new drugs will also be "controlled." Pay me now or pay me later, etc. etc. The unintended consequence is that the USA (as you point out) PAYS for most of the new drug development! When that changes, I suspect that the gummint will take over drug development. We'll still be paying, but at least we won't let the greedy, evil drug companies make their obscene profits. At best, we'll just have fewer new drugs. I vote for the later, but YMMV.

I'm not suggesting right or wrong or good or bad. Just saying that there's no free lunch. If you want "the best" or "latest" and the drug company doesn't think they can make money, they won't develop a new drug. While you are waiting for drug-price controls in the USA, buy drug company stock - especially if you hate them for the pricing power. Use the money you make on their stock to pay for the outrageously priced, top-tier drugs! Beat them at their own game.



Of course, if you don't really believe the drug companies have pricing power as everyone suggests - maybe better not buy their stock. Back up contentions with money. Again, YMMV.

Sounds like you still work for the drug company. /s
 
Sounds like you still work for the drug company. /s


Just have done a lot of research on why MY drug prices are so high!

Went round and round with my insurance company about why they dropped coverage of Jardiance.

Even with Part D, I'm spending a fortune (and so is DW.) I'm glad to have these drugs available but the prices are a killer.
 
Just have done a lot of research on why MY drug prices are so high!

Went round and round with my insurance company about why they dropped coverage of Jardiance.

Even with Part D, I'm spending a fortune (and so is DW.) I'm glad to have these drugs available but the prices are a killer.

I hear you. When DW was still here, we spent a ton on breathing drugs. For me, I take one drug, Tamsulosin, for urinary help, and it's $16 every three months. I'm 80 and lucky to be healthy.
 
Hopefully this is not behind a firewall (I’m not a subscriber to the NYT and can see the whole article)

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/health/us-drug-prices.html

This article lists 6 possible reasons that drug prices are so high in the USA.

1. There is no central negotiator willing to walk away.

Other wealthy countries rely on a single negotiating body — usually the government — to decide whether to accept the price a pharmaceutical company wants to charge. In the United States, negotiations with drug makers are split among tens of thousands of health plans, resulting in far less bargaining muscle for the buyers
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2. There are no price controls.

Some countries set limits on how much they will pay for medicines. France, for example, caps the growth of drug companies’ sales: If sales exceed that threshold, the government gets a rebate.

Drug companies in the United States have avoided legal restraints on prices for patients covered by commercial insurance and on introductory sticker prices when drugs first enter the market.

“Drugs are so expensive in the U.S. because we let them be,” said Michelle Mello, a Stanford law and health policy professor. “We designed a system in terms of drug costs that is all engines, no brakes.”
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3. The system creates perverse incentives.

Drug companies are not the only ones making money from high drug costs. Doctors, hospitals and an array of intermediaries also see higher revenue when costs soar.

One case in point: Under Medicare policies for some drugs, doctors pay upfront for drugs that they administer to patients intravenously in their offices, such as chemotherapy. To recoup their costs, they send a bill to Medicare for both the cost of the drug and a percentage of that cost, set by Medicare, to cover their overhead. That billing system creates an incentive for a doctor to choose a higher-priced drug. For example, a Medicare rate of 6 percent on a $10,000 drug would pay $600 — a lot more than the $6 fee paid for infusing a $100 medication.
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4. The system is fragmented and complicated.

Drug industry executives often complain that they are unfairly blamed for high prices while other parties, including P.B.M.s and insurers, are profiting from a growing share of drug spending and saddling patients with high out-of-pocket costs.

“The United States is the only country that allows middlemen, such as P.B.M.s, to profiteer on medicines unchecked,” said Alex Schriver, an official at Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, or PhRMA, the drug industry’s main lobbying group.
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5. Patent gaming keeps prices high longer.

Around the world, countries issue patents to drug companies that grant them temporary monopolies during which lower-priced generic competitors can’t enter the market. But in the United States, drug companies have been especially successful in finding ways to prolong that monopoly period, through tactics like piling up patents to protect inventions that are only tangentially related to the drug in question.
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6. Drug prices are what the market will bear.

Drug industry executives often say their prices reflect the value their products provide to society. For example, a one-time $3 million cure may be a bargain if it ends up averting $10 million in hospital bills and lost wages.
.

Drug companies also say the prices of medications reflect the huge, rising costs of running clinical trials and the need to recoup expensive investments in failed drugs. But academics have found no relationship between how much drug companies spend on research and how much they charge.

The reality, experts say, is that companies set their prices as high as the market will bear.
 
Hopefully this is not behind a firewall (I’m not a subscriber to the NYT and can see the whole article)

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/health/us-drug-prices.html

This article lists 6 possible reasons that drug prices are so high in the USA.
Very good link, thanks.
Absolutely I know of the disparity. There are lots of reasons - mostly because OUS countries set prices while the USA allows individual "entities" WITHIN the USA to negotiate prices. If a drug company won't sell at the price a COUNTRY sets - they don't get to sell that drug in that country. So most drug companies cave in and sell at the dictated country price. They still make SOME money - just not the huge profits they make in the USA.

USA itself (still) does not "believe" in setting prices. USA still believes (for a while longer) markets will set prices.

In the USA, drug companies have been willing to say "NO to insurers. We will not sell to you at that price." We (Americans) still demand "new and improved" drugs so the "payers" have to negotiate the prices. It's not the full price in most cases, but it's a LOT!

Sometimes, the insurers or other "payers" simply say "There is another drug that's almost as good. We refuse to include XYZ drug on our formulary unless ABC drug company lowers their price." Sometimes the answer is "NO. Use our competitor's 'inferior' drug and see how your customers like it. Let us know if you change your mind." I mentioned elsewhere that I take Eliquis. I could take Warfarin. It's so cheap, it's almost free. I "demand" Eliquis because the side-effect profile is almost infinitely better AND Eliquis requires maybe 2 or 3 blood tests a year instead of monthly. If I couldn't "afford" Eliquis, I'd be glad that the old stand-by Warfarin is still around, but, I want the best (for me.)


I actually had to change from Jardiance to Farxiga because my drug insurance would no longer cover Jardiance (too expensive.) SO, I take a drug that my doctor didn't want to prescribe for me. It does save me money that way, but it's not what my doctor ordered. WHOLE countries are now doing what my insurance company is doing. It saves the patient money, but may not supply the best drug. It's very much a YMMV situation. What is the old addage: Cheap or Best - you pick.

At the bottom line level, the big downside of drug price control in general is that drug companies have to spend one to three billion dollars to bring a new drug to market. They get that money from sales. If prices are controlled, then effectively the number of new drugs will also be "controlled." Pay me now or pay me later, etc. etc. The unintended consequence is that the USA (as you point out) PAYS for most of the new drug development! When that changes, I suspect that the gummint will take over drug development. We'll still be paying, but at least we won't let the greedy, evil drug companies make their obscene profits. At best, we'll just have fewer new drugs. I vote for the later, but YMMV.

I'm not suggesting right or wrong or good or bad. Just saying that there's no free lunch. If you want "the best" or "latest" and the drug company doesn't think they can make money, they won't develop a new drug. While you are waiting for drug-price controls in the USA, buy drug company stock - especially if you hate them for the pricing power. Use the money you make on their stock to pay for the outrageously priced, top-tier drugs! Beat them at their own game.



Of course, if you don't really believe the drug companies have pricing power as everyone suggests - maybe better not buy their stock. Back up contentions with money. Again, YMMV.
A couple of points in what is always a difficult discussion.

It’s true that high prices motivate development of more new drugs. It also motivates wasteful R&D, money that could better be used elsewhere. It also implies that drugs would not be developed if it weren’t for the high prices. This is not true, there’s no evidence to support it, it’s unproven, but does make a good talking point. A good example is the technology sector, especially chip development and production.

High priced new drugs do not necessarily benefit society, they benefit upper income people that can afford them. There are many conditions that would benefit from new drugs, but little development is underway, because the high profits aren’t being used to fund new development, they are distributed to corporate mgmt and shareholders.

The US gov’t funded $187B of pharmaceutical R&D over the last decade, mostly grants to universities. 354 of 365 new drugs approved benefitted from US publicly supported research grants. The big Pharma companies do take risks, but they are getting lots of help offsetting it. Taxpayers help fund, and in return we get prices that are downright exploitative.

Our drug prices are the highest in the world, yet the US pharma industry last year paid almost nothing in income tax. They do the R&D here, expense it here, get the patent here, then transfer the intellectual property to Ireland and book all the profit there. They are not evil and what they do is lawful, but it’s not right. If we’re going to pay the highest prices in the world we should at least get some tax on that profit.

US pharma does engage in what is called “regulatory capture” where they help write the regulatory code and then use it to unfairly deter competition. That’s what is happening now with insulin, for example.

Bottom line: patent abuse does generate high prices but does not lead to more innovation or development, it leads to less. If you really want more new drugs developed, what we need is not high prices, it’s less restrictive patents and more competition.

The rest of the world does take advantage of this, also unfairly. The US is far and away the leader in pharma research.
 
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USA itself (still) does not "believe" in setting prices. USA still believes (for a while longer) markets will set prices.

In the USA, drug companies have been willing to say "NO to insurers. We will not sell to you at that price." We (Americans) still demand "new and improved" drugs so the "payers" have to negotiate the prices. It's not the full price in most cases, but it's a LOT!

For me the problem with all of this is one thing ... we're talking about human lives here, not the latest greatest automobile tech. Medical ethics more or less require doctors to help patients regardless of the patient's ability to pay. The hippocratic oath is not a real thing, no, but doctors who refuse to treat patients for financial reasons usually aren't doctors for much longer.

I don't know why this isn't true for pharmas. Sure, maybe some of the drugs they produce aren't intended to save or extend lives, but many are. For those drugs they should be held to a standard that says the cost to the patient is whatever the patient can afford that is within reason.

For the people that work at the pharmas, they should be held to a standard as well. One that says you're not doing this work for the money or the glory, you're doing this work to save lives. It's a benevolent sacrifice, one that society should celebrate. It should be a high honor to work on a team that creates the drug that cures a form of cancer.

People doing things like becoming doctors for the simple reason that they want to help others and do it in a noble way is becoming a thing of the past. It's unfortunate. The 80s taught a lot of people that you're only "cool" if you make a lot of money. American society has never looked back once that became "the way".
 
I do not know what drug prices are in the US. We live in Canada.

I do know that on the occasion when we have purchased prescription drugs in Europe, in Asia, and in South America that like for like prices in these areas have been below what we paid in Canada. In some instances considerably below.

Not certain why. My sense is that we are getting fleeced.

Reminds me of the efforts my former employer went to contol the 'grey market', ie pricing same product differently in different markets based primarily on the local market and what the 'traffic could bear'.
 
.....

Even with Part D, I'm spending a fortune (and so is DW.) I'm glad to have these drugs available but the prices are a killer.

I don't understand why DW's meds are less expensive through Cost Plus without insurance than through the pharmacy with her part D insurance.
 
Very good link, thanks.

A couple of points in what is always a difficult discussion.

It’s true that high prices motivate development of more new drugs. It also motivates wasteful R&D, money that could better be used elsewhere. It also implies that drugs would not be developed if it weren’t for the high prices. This is not true, there’s no evidence to support it, it’s unproven, but does make a good talking point. A good example is the technology sector, especially chip development and production.

High priced new drugs do not necessarily benefit society, they benefit upper income people that can afford them. There are many conditions that would benefit from new drugs, but little development is underway, because the high profits aren’t being used to fund new development, they are distributed to corporate mgmt and shareholders.

The US gov’t funded $187B of pharmaceutical R&D over the last decade, mostly grants to universities. 354 of 365 new drugs approved benefitted from US publicly supported research grants. The big Pharma companies do take risks, but they are getting lots of help offsetting it. Taxpayers help fund, and in return we get prices that are downright exploitative.

Our drug prices are the highest in the world, yet the US pharma industry last year paid almost nothing in income tax. They do the R&D here, expense it here, get the patent here, then transfer the intellectual property to Ireland and book all the profit there. They are not evil and what they do is lawful, but it’s not right. If we’re going to pay the highest prices in the world we should at least get some tax on that profit.

US pharma does engage in what is called “regulatory capture” where they help write the regulatory code and then use it to unfairly deter competition. That’s what is happening now with insulin, for example.

Bottom line: patent abuse does generate high prices but does not lead to more innovation or development, it leads to less. If you really want more new drugs developed, what we need is not high prices, it’s less restrictive patents and more competition.

The rest of the world does take advantage of this, also unfairly. The US is far and away the leader in pharma research.


Yeah, I basically agree with everything you've said here. (Like I said - I don't think in terms of right or wrong, good or bad.) Arguably, the drug industry is the most regulated. The drug companies have made it their business to play that game to their advantage - and they've done it very well indeed. They push every law and regulation right up to the limit and even use the law (that you'd think would crush them) to their advantage.

Buying stock in companies that know how to beat the gummint at its own game will likely be a good bet though YMMV.
 
For me the problem with all of this is one thing ... we're talking about human lives here, not the latest greatest automobile tech. Medical ethics more or less require doctors to help patients regardless of the patient's ability to pay. The hippocratic oath is not a real thing, no, but doctors who refuse to treat patients for financial reasons usually aren't doctors for much longer.

I don't know why this isn't true for pharmas. Sure, maybe some of the drugs they produce aren't intended to save or extend lives, but many are. For those drugs they should be held to a standard that says the cost to the patient is whatever the patient can afford that is within reason.

For the people that work at the pharmas, they should be held to a standard as well. One that says you're not doing this work for the money or the glory, you're doing this work to save lives. It's a benevolent sacrifice, one that society should celebrate. It should be a high honor to work on a team that creates the drug that cures a form of cancer.

People doing things like becoming doctors for the simple reason that they want to help others and do it in a noble way is becoming a thing of the past. It's unfortunate. The 80s taught a lot of people that you're only "cool" if you make a lot of money. American society has never looked back once that became "the way".


You have two choices: 1) Greedy, evil, profit motivated businesses can come up with drugs (AND DEVELOP AND TEST THEM) or 2) The gummint can do it all and make drugs "FREE" for all. Which do you think will produce the better outcome?

If you want a hint, look at USPS vs UPS or FEDX. How about Amtrak vs Commercial Air Travel? How about NASA vs SPACE-X? They all have their advantages and disadvantages, strengths and weaknesses. But, in general, I'd vote for those who are trying to make money doing something because they'll typically do it more efficiently and effectively than a gummint who believes its job is to please the most people with its fairness - and costs be hanged. Oh, and, of course, even if it's "FREE" it doesn't mean it doesn't cost money. Who PAYS is the only question. As always, I could be wrong and YMMV.
 
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