Living will? help me understand theses statements

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badatmath

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1. If I have a terminal condition I do not want my life to be prolonged, and I do not want life-
sustaining treatment, beyond comfort care, that would serve only to artificially delay the
moment of my death.
**Comfort care is treatment given in an attempt to protect and enhance the
quality of life without artificially prolonging life.
_____ 2. If I am in a terminal condition or an irreversible coma or a persistent vegetative state that my
doctors reasonably feel to be irreversible or incurable, I do want the medical treatment
necessary to provide care that would keep me comfortable, but I DO NOT want the
following:
_____ a. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). For example: the use of drugs, electric
shock and artificial breathing.
_____ b. Artificially administered food and fluids.
_____ c. To be taken to a hospital if at all avoidable.

Wouldn't #1 kind of cover #2? I have no idea if artificial fluid is comforting or not for example. Pretty sure a feeding tube would suck but an IV IDK.

Not sure how to think of this. I don't know anyone who has been in a prolonged situation like this - I mean not in detail. Pretty much, heart attack to dead KWIM?

I did look at some other resources for this but I can't really relate to them.
 
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Rather than parsing the language on the form, you'd probably be better served by thoroughly discussing any issues with the person who will hold your health care POA and/or with your PCP.
 
OldShooter said:
Rather than parsing the language on the form, you'd probably be better served by thoroughly discussing any issues with the person who will hold your health care POA and/or with your PCP.
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Well the person being my POA is a semi stranger as I am out of family.

Not to say you are not correct though. I have an appointment to sign these documents tomorrow so won't be seeing PCP by then. Would have been nice if atty had suggested or I had thought of it sooner but of course I didn't! Thanks for replying.
 
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I'm not sure how old you are, but suppose you are 70, and are diagnosed with lung cancer. That is a terminal disease. Wouldn't you at least try to use chemo or radiation to try to beat it?

Is that what you want done? Is that what your true intentions as to not have life sustaining treatment? One must be very careful with wording when making these kind of documents. I saw it done with a nursing home patient that had no family left.
 
55. Not sure I'd take chemo everyone I know who took it died anyway and suffered first but admittedly it is a small sample.
 
here in the USA you want to use the model health care POA for your specific state.

because at least one state has what is essentially two forms: one for 'everyday' medical decisions & another for withholding/refusing life sustaining medical treatment, e.g. ventilator, feeding tube.

the health care POA allows you to appoint a health care agent who has the ultimate legal authority for any & all medical decisions.

and my strong suggestion is that you impose no limits on your health care agent but share with them in advance what you would want.

and most importantly what you don't want when diagnosed with serious or terminal conditions...the latter includes any form of dementia.

in contrast to a living will where it's the attending physician (who in an ER likely has never seen you before) interpreting the form.
 
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Hmm. I think I get both forms tomorrow but IDK for sure I guess. Maybe not and that is why atty not mention it. He just said to think if I wanted to be organ donor which, being a yes or no question, did not seem very hard.
 
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Winemaker said:
I'm not sure how old you are, but suppose you are 70, and are diagnosed with lung cancer. That is a terminal disease. Wouldn't you at least try to use chemo or radiation to try to beat it?

Is that what you want done? Is that what your true intentions as to not have life sustaining treatment? One must be very careful with wording when making these kind of documents. I saw it done with a nursing home patient that had no family left.
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that's why you tell your health care agent (appointed via a health care POA) what you want, & don't want in those types of situations.

especially for situations where the cancer doesn't respond well to treatment & its subsequent spread (or side effects of the treatments themselves) start impairing your ability to make medical decisions.
 
I agree with the poster above who said to discuss your wishes in detail with your POA. I'd further recommend writing it all down for them too, because they very well could forget or make a mistake when under the pressure if you are in an acute situation. It's also smart to review it every so often, in case your wishes change over time.

It's challenging because there are so many potential accidents and illnesses and diseases and health issues. Treatment and outcome can vary from person to person and is unknowable in advance.

The way you typed in the form information is a bit unclear. I would interpret comfort care mostly to mean pain medication like morphine, continuation of any maintenance medications, and food and water if you're able to feed/drink yourself.

FWIW, my father is an 87 year old retired doctor with dementia. He has a living will and it is pretty aggressive in non-treatment. I think most doctors are because they see how often families do aggressive interventions and how that turns out. Everyone hopes their loved one is the exception, but most of the time they aren't.

There's also a point where hospice makes sense. In my Mom's case it was definitely better to just load up on morphine and enjoy the last year of her life as much as she could rather than spend that precious time in doctors offices, getting treatments, and fighting hard battles in a war you know you're going to lose.

IMHO, YMMV.
 
On the form I am supposed to initial the choices I want. There were more but some didn't apply (pregnancy) and so on. Atty did inform me that I would need a separate power to atty for mental health so I could be committed without a court order. I thought that odd that it not fall under "general health" but not really worried about going any crazier than now.

My primary care doc is way more conservative than my cardiologist on a recent issue and I am lost who to believe. I agreed to an in between but not really comfortable - will have to see how it goes. It seems really hard to get straight answers.

I do generally think people way over treat especially in the last couple of years of life. Most of us will not live to be 100 and I for one do not want to and can't afford it!

I did look up the healthcare power of atty and it seemed to say rather little like did i want to be buried? IDC, did I want to donate organs and did I want an autopsy? Um no but already dead then so not really "healthcare" to my mind.
 
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Have your lawyer explain the forms to you. Since you are 55, and not terminal, you [-]do[/-] should have time to think this through. Why would you make end of life decisions without understanding them?

I have heard of living wills, health proxies, powers of attorneys, durable powers of attorney, etc. but - I will admit, I have never heard of a "POA" that permits you to be "committed without a court order" and don't know what that means.
 
MarieIG said:
Have your lawyer explain the forms to you. Since you are 55, and not terminal, you [-]do[/-] should have time to think this through. Why would you make end of life decisions without understanding them?

I have heard of living wills, health proxies, powers of attorneys, durable powers of attorney, etc. but - I will admit, I have never heard of a "POA" that permits you to be "committed without a court order" and don't know what that means.
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I searched and found the form: https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/...re/2018/LCP_Packet_fillable-mental-health.pdf

It seems odd he did not go over the forms prior to the signing appointment.
 
I just signed these type documents today. My attorney pointed out that 1) I would make my own decisions unless/until I am mentally incompetent, and 2) there would have to be two doctors signing off on the lack of hope for continued care. I am in Georgia.
 
kenpmcdonald1 said:
I just signed these type documents today. My attorney pointed out that 1) I would make my own decisions unless/until I am mentally incompetent, and 2) there would have to be two doctors signing off on the lack of hope for continued care. I am in Georgia.
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Oh that is a good point thank you.
 
I have a living will will also. I agree with others - you need to fully understand what you want and make sure the lawyer writing the terms can show how they help you achieve those objectives. On your question of #1 vs #2 it looks to me like #1 addresses terminal conditions and #2 adds some conditions not generally considered terminal and then more broadly identifies specific treatments you don't want. As others point out, this is all to guide others when you are unconscious or incompetent. If you are awake and kicking you can agree to anything and even tear up the living will.
 
TIL the atty used language I understood not the form. And that "mental health" does not include dementia apparently.
 
badatmath said:
Right it seems like something you would see in a movie plot where the psycho husband locks up his wife for shock treatment or something. IDK.
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:LOL::LOL::LOL: Right! - Alfred Hitchcock.
 
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