Lowering cholesterol without statins-1-year update: good results, but...

[youbet]

People who take statins have memory loss. People who don't take statins have memory loss.

"While statin users have reported memory loss to the FDA, studies haven’t found evidence to support these claims. Research has actually suggested the opposite — that statins may help prevent Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia."

https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/link-between-statins-and-memory-loss

Yep. The debate goes on and on........

There seem to be about as many unsubstantiated anti-statin claims as unsubstantiated pro-statin claims.

I notice little, if any, mention of dosage concerning statins. My feeling is that there is a big difference between taking a low and a high dose but I haven't noted studies that focus on that differentiation. For example, my cardiologist started me on a low dosage statin after we discovered a hint of CHD during an angioplasty. Now, years later, I've discussed this with my GP and his feeling is to continue with the low dosage and that at this stage of my life he'd lower a higher level dosage to a low dosage for me. But he's not in favor of cutting my low dosage to zero. I've noted no side effects.

This is the same doc (A DO, not MD) who took me off BP meds after I lost 65 lbs and improved my exercise habits, so he's not one to prescribe or continue meds unnecessarily.

I plan on continuing my reading on the subject trying to avoid both the Mega-Pharm marketing influences as well as the click-bait, anti-statin authors.

 

[Chuckanut]

Yep - that pretty much makes me write them off.

The Coup De Grâce for me is when they sell 'cleanses'.

I've leaned a lot from the books written by Dr. Ludwig and Dr. Lustig. Most boil down to eat real food, minimally processed, strictly limit or avoid consumption of added sugars and let your body regulate itself as human bodies have done for thousands of years. It works for me.

 

[travelover]

People who take statins have memory loss. People who don't take statins have memory loss.

"While statin users have reported memory loss to the FDA, studies haven’t found evidence to support these claims. Research has actually suggested the opposite — that statins may help prevent Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia."

https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/link-between-statins-and-memory-loss

I was put on statins, and I can tell you that they definitely made me fuzzy headed. Not necessarily losing memory, but just not thinking clearly. Like going through life with a one beer buzz all the time. I stopped them and within a week or so I was back to normal. Maybe, statistically, most people don't experience it, but I know that I did.

 

[gerntz]

I have known people with great memories prior to treatment that developed issues. Of course no way to know for sure if the drug caused the problem.

Based on studies, probably not.

 

[gerntz]

I was put on statins, and I can tell you that they definitely made me fuzzy headed. Not necessarily losing memory, but just not thinking clearly. Like going through life with a one beer buzz all the time. I stopped them and within a week or so I was back to normal. Maybe, statistically, most people don't experience it, but I know that I did.

Correlation does not equal causation. MIL never took a statin & lost her mind.

 

[travelover]

Correlation does not equal causation. MIL never took a statin & lost her mind.

OK, I'll make broad generalizations with one data point and you can, too.

 

[ACCD]

The new thinking is to look at the Triglycerides--your are wonderful. What is your CRP. Many would not worry about the LDL. Has your doc ordered a NMR to look at particle size? That is important to know. Have oyu had a calcium artery scan? Check out cholesterolcode.com Good luck

Calcium Scoring is or could be as important as controlling your cholesterol. Higher scores with a low or zero Cardiac Calcium score puts you in good shape and low risk. You can have low cholesterol numbers and high Cardiac Calcium score and be at risk while thinking your ok.

I'm a big fan of the test, quick and inexpensive. Not a fan of statins, big fan of great diet, just too weak to follow through!!! Congrats to you for working to keep the numbers low.

TD

 

[Chuckanut]

My understanding is that cholesterol removed from artery walls by use of a statin are replaced with calcium. That might make calcium scans a bit problematic for some.

 

[Catbird]

I had a near fatal heart attack at age 40. I've been on statins ever since along with aspirin and I'm 59 and still going strong. 20mg of Zocor keeps my total in the 150 range.

 

[GLM]

Your numbers look great , keep up the good work. Diet and exercise does matter! - especally carbs.

Also in the anti statin camp. Look up NNT- numbers needed to treat with statins, quite revealing . I also believe if you must use statins please take coq 10 with it , preferablty the ubiquinol form .

https://www.acatoday.org/News-Publi...106/NNT-for-Statins-vs-the-Mediterranean-Diet

 

[SubwaySinger]

In Dec 2017 I really changed the way I eat (lots more of the good stuff, none of the bad stuff) & upped the exercise in an effort to lower my cholesterol numbers, which had been rising slowly & definitely got my attention. (With a family history of heart disease, I'm very sensitive to this.) I was very diligent about my new routines, & after several months (April 2018) there was a huge improvement (hurrah!). I expected even more improvement at my check-up last week since I've maintained my healthy habits, but the results were a little disappointing; some numbers improved, some didn't. Here are the latest numbers, compared with the results in April 2018 and Dec 2017:

cholesterol -- 205 (197, 258)
triglycerides--53 (90, 112)
HDL -- 76 (71, 71)
LDL -- 119 (108, 165)

Maybe it's unrealistic to hope the numbers will just keep getting better & I guess I should be happy because of the overall improvement. My doctor is pleased. It's just confusing to me that all the numbers don't seem to go in the same direction. Is there anything I can do to bring down that pesky LDL?

Incidentally, I also lost 19.5 pounds, very gradually, since Dec 2017. I knew I'd lost some weight but I was shocked! Weight loss wasn't my goal, though I'd have been happy to lose 5 pounds, maybe 10. I'm pretty thin now & definitely don't need to lose any more. (The doctor said that losing weight, by itself, tends to lower cholesterol.)

I was diagnosed with 50% blockage of carodit artery 6 years ago. Took statin and aspirin and proton inhibitor for a year as prescribed. After a year I came down with severe digestive problem caused by aspirin and PPI. Also found out cholesterol was not the problem but inflammation. We have been deceived by medical industry last 60 years that start with bogus Angel Key hypothesis. Too make long story short, I stopped using the prescribed medicine started on Linus Pauling vitamin C theraphy which actually reverses atherosclerosis. Google it and it may save your life.

 

[meleana]

Interested in following this thread. Just had my first complete blood test in years. Cholesterol NOT good. My Dad and uncles had strokes, presumably cholesterol played a part in those occurences. Meeting with my Doctor later in the month to discuss. I don't smoke, have never. Have maybe one or two drinks A YEAR. I hit the treadmill or the road for 3 to 5 miles probably an average of 6 days a week. My weight is right where it should be due to watching it for decades as I pack on the pounds if I don't.... so no big recent adjustment. My eating habits could include more fruits and veggies. So I don't know what she might suggest. Drugs?
More fruits/veggie? Quit specific food groups?
I retired earlier this year and don't want to be one of those who quit work and then drop over.

I see the problem right there. You don't drink. Time to get some wine.Weight has nothing to do with it. I know very thin people with high cholesterol.

Something else that helps is taking one Citrucel (over the counter) before dinner. It adds more fiber.

 

[Winemaker]

In the long run, we are all dead. In the short run, who knows? Enjoy life everything in moderation, including moderation. My DF died of leukemia at 70, never was sick a day in his life. My neighbor, an occasional beer drinker, is Stage V at the age of 63.

 

[Canoeboy]

Same comment from doctor today

My doctor told me diet matters little. Genetics are number 1, followed by activity/exercise.

Just visited doc today after 10 weeks on statins to address High triglycerides and moderate cholesterol levels. (Meds worked!) Doctor said exert same thing - it’s in my genes, diet may help a little and exercise would help a little more, but probably not bring down to acceptable levels.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

In my early 70's, Doc suggested that I try Niacin to raise my HDL and reduce the risk of heart attack/stroke. Niacin does have some potential side effects.


Going from memory, the numbers ran something like this:
According to the online calculator she uses, I had something like a 25% risk of HA/stroke in the next ten years. If I could raise my HDL by 5 points, that dropped my risk to 23%.
BFD.


I started exercising and she feels that's at least as good as niacin pills, and also has other good side effects.

 

[gooddog]

Is there anything I can do to bring down that pesky LDL?

There are five ways to lower cholesterol:

1) Exercise
2) Diet
3) Medication/Supplement
4) Lose weight.
5) Quit smoking

I'm assuming you don't smoke, so strike out #5. You are already thin, so strike out #4.

1) Exercise must be aerobic and 30 mins or more a day to make a significant difference in cholesterol levels.
2) Diet - You have already tried it, but have you tried Quaker Oats for breakfast? That is a sure way to bring down your cholesterol.
3) Medication/Supplements - If your doc is willing to work with you there is an old time medication called Cholestyramine. This medication is unusual, as it stays in the GI system and binds with bile. Since your GI tract is then low on bile, cholesterol is sequestered from the blood stream to be (keeping this simple) converted to bile. There are not a lot of complications with this medication since it stays in the GI tract, the only thing you really have to watch out for is constipation. Cholestyramine is inexpensive - doc can order up to 240 packs at a time, and you can use just one or two a day so it will last quite some time. To clear that up, it typically comes in 4 gram packs and is a powder that you mix with water or apple sauce. Worth a shot, in my experience it is very effective.

 

[Elbata]

On Youtube, there's a number of videos about NNT (numbers needed to treat), Relative risk, and Absolute risk. When taking or deciding to take medications, these are numbers that are crucial for the layperson to understand. But doctors and pharmaceuticals usually tell you the relative risk numbers, not absolute risk. And realizing the NNT with all its other possible complications should at least give one pause before so readily agreeing to a possible life-long medicine therapy:

 

[RoxyM]

Niacin for High Cholesterol

DH and I both had higher-than-we-should cholesterol / triglyceride numbers, and were both prescribed statins, many years ago. I experienced extreme muscle fatigue in my legs while taking the statins, and did extensive research on niacin (vit. B3) and the best kind to take to lower cholesterol. I took myself off statins and started immediate-release niacin, slowly building up from 50 mg to 1600 mg per day. The next time I got my blood checked a few months later, my cholesterol was down - way down. My doctor was all for it, and said I could safely build up to 2000 mg per day.

DH joined me on cholesterol-lowering goals, and we also try to eat healthier - more salads and less beef and pork. But we do indulge in those once or twice a week. Plus we exercise regularly.

It's true, niacin does cause discomfort sometimes - especially at the beginning - but it's harmless according to my research. You have to gauge how much to take according to the amount of cholesterol you eat. Eat a healthy salad, take less niacin, eat bacon and eggs, take more, etc.

Anyway, it might be worth a try for some folks, better than statins!

 

[skipro33]

Speaking of Niascin, my doc told me it would help. So off I go to Costco and I buy a bottle. I guess my man-i-tude told me if a little is good, a lot is better and got what ever the strongest strength was available. I popped the little bastard and then treated myself to the movies and a bucket of popcorn. Maybe 20 or 30 minutes into the movie, I think my groin feels a little warm... then I think maybe I wet my pants kinda warm. Then Pants-On-FIRE kind of warm!! Wow! Doc never said a word about that. Never trust a woman doctor was my lesson.
When I next talked to her, she said, oh, I'm sure I mentioned you might feel a flush. A flush?! What the heck is that?! To me, that's sorta like a blush; your cheeks get a little red, you feel a little warm all over. Not the feeling my crotch was dowsed in lighter fluid. I think she has a sadistic side...

 

[RoxyM]

Laughing my pants off!

Speaking of Niascin, my doc told me it would help. So off I go to Costco and I buy a bottle. I guess my man-i-tude told me if a little is good, a lot is better and got what ever the strongest strength was available. I popped the little bastard and then treated myself to the movies and a bucket of popcorn. Maybe 20 or 30 minutes into the movie, I think my groin feels a little warm... then I think maybe I wet my pants kinda warm. Then Pants-On-FIRE kind of warm!! Wow! Doc never said a word about that. Never trust a woman doctor was my lesson.
When I next talked to her, she said, oh, I'm sure I mentioned you might feel a flush. A flush?! What the heck is that?! To me, that's sorta like a blush; your cheeks get a little red, you feel a little warm all over. Not the feeling my crotch was dowsed in lighter fluid. I think she has a sadistic side...

You got me laughing out loud now! Okay, yes. That niacin "flush" can get pretty wicked, especially if you do it on just popcorn! Ha-ha-ha!

 

[Teacher Terry]

Someone I know lost their husband to kidney failure caused by statins.