Horrendous customer service at Vanguard

[Koolau]

I seem to be in the minority, but I had no issues with my Dad's IRA at Vanguard when he died. My Mom was the named beneficiary. I have used them for my IRA for quite a few years too. I have a simple asset allocation and it works for me.

I'm beginning to believe that there is a certain amount of luck involved with Vanguard service. I've never had any serious issues (time to answer phone all the way to screwed up service.) Others here have had serious problems that would seem to be inexcusable.

Are you feeling lucky?

Vanguard (for my particular needs) seems the least expensive of the companies I've investigated. I hope I'm not the next one to present a horror story on V.

 

[mpeirce]

When my wife passed away last December, her Schwab IRA was passed to me via beneficiary. I filled out the transfer form in 5 minutes, drove to the local Schwab office in 10 minutes, dropped off the form and a death certificate and in two days, the IRA was blended in with mine. Done deal.

Schwab even covered my parking garage fee.

Nothing like a brick and mortar office to serve you.

On the other hand.

DS was visiting and I wanted him to setup a brokerage account. So we drove down to Schwab to do it and the nice person there sat my son down to a computer with a web browser and told him to use the website to setup his account.

We could have saved the gas money...

 

[milford]

Second time calling Vanguard as I wanted to see if there was a way on the website to view what the coupon rate is for the treasuries I currently hold as it shows 0% once its purchased on the holdings tab. Within 5 mins got to speak with a representative (seemed like she was in a call center as there was really bad background noise). She looked into it a bit and didn't know so she transferred me to the "fixed income" specialist and the automated queue told me the estimated wait time is ONE HOUR... decided it wasn't worth my time so hung up.

 

[Brook2]

Interesting. I had a critical issue occur and it needed resolution quickly. Basically, the Roth that we started for daughter still comes to our address. The USPS has suddenly stopped recognizing her name and is returning her stuff to Vanguard. So our accounts were all on hold - not just daughters. Not sure if I fault Vanguard for that, but at least they notified me.

I called Vanguard this AM (so roughly 2:00PM their time.) I got a robot that I only needed two stabs at getting a "representative" menu. Once I ID'd the "issue" to the robot's satisfaction, I was put on hold for (wait for it) 3 minutes. I reached a guy who's 1st language was different than mine. He was a bit difficult to understand, but he led me through the process I needed to follow on the web site. He confirmed that all the changes had been made and that I was good to go.

Now, I won't know until I receive more mailings (and DD receives mailings at her address) if it really w*rked. But the experience was nothing like I've been hearing about in these pages. And, full disclosure, I've never had the horrendous wait times folks have been talking about though YMMV.

Agreed about Vanguard. Seems like a completely different company. I got an email alert that a large amount of money had been withdrawn from my account with no explanation and I couldn't get anyone on the phone. I also notice a new fund had been opened. Finally got someone on the phone days later and they said they sent me an email to warn me. I wish they would have sent a better notification than one email. After that terrible service, I moved half assets to Schwab which was easy. They even waved the fees and gave me $500 bonus for moving VG mutual funds under their umbrella. At least I know I can walk to their office and ask a question.

 

[Midpack]

Agreed about Vanguard. Seems like a completely different company. I got an email alert that a large amount of money had been withdrawn from my account with no explanation and I couldn't get anyone on the phone. I also notice a new fund had been opened. Finally got someone on the phone days later and they said they sent me an email to warn me. I wish they would have sent a better notification than one email. After that terrible service, I moved half assets to Schwab which was easy. They even waved the fees and gave me $500 bonus for moving VG mutual funds under their umbrella. At least I know I can walk to their office and ask a question.

I had a mid six figure transaction at Vanguard where the funds were missing until the next day, I was alarmed enough to call. They told me the funds would appear next day and they did. I would have thought the funds would always show in the old or new account. The rep did not tell me if there was some other place to look to verify the funds were still ours…a little unnerving that afternoon-evening.

I stick with Vanguard for the low prices and don’t need/want much hand holding, but service is nothing like it was 20 years ago. It seems you have to be on some 0.30% AUM program to get any human service now, account size alone doesn’t mean anything anymore. They used to do somewhat tailored portfolio reviews for larger accounts, with a large report and a one on one phone call, those are gone as far as I can tell unless you pay %AUM. And lately I’m noticing pop-ups for paid advisory services on the Vanguard website…

 

[FREE866]

I stick with Vanguard for the low prices and don’t need/want much hand holding, but service is nothing like it was 20 years ago.

Question....when you say "low prices" can you elaborate? I only have ETFs at Schwab and they are commission free and I can also buy ones like VTI, SPY etc with expense ratios all under .10%
Like you, I don't need much.

 

[Midpack]

Question....when you say "low prices" can you elaborate? I only have ETFs at Schwab and they are commission free and I can also buy ones like VTI, SPY etc with expense ratios all under .10%
Like you, I don't need much.

When I moved our $ to VG many years ago they clearly had the most and best index funds with the lowest expense ratios. But I realize Fidelity, Schwab and others have (been forced) closed the gap on both counts since, so maybe I should re-evaluate. In that Fidelity and Schwab do provide more customer service, I would expect their expenses have to be higher and customers pay somewhere, but maybe I'm wrong. You don't get something for nothing IME...

 

[FREE866]

When I moved our $ to VG many years ago they clearly had the most and best index funds with the lowest expense ratios. But I realize Fidelity, Schwab and others have (been forced) closed the gap on both counts since, so maybe I should re-evaluate. In that Fidelity and Schwab do provide more customer service, I would expect their expenses have to be higher and customers pay somewhere, but maybe I'm wrong. You don't get something for nothing IME...

Schwab isnt perfect, but I love the interface and tools...the costs are minimal, especially for the way I approach investing. I recently set up accounts for my nieces with checking/debit cards, it was a little spotty, but we worked it out...

 

[Koolau]

Question....when you say "low prices" can you elaborate? I only have ETFs at Schwab and they are commission free and I can also buy ones like VTI, SPY etc with expense ratios all under .10%
Like you, I don't need much.

I mentioned this site: https://fortunly.com/articles/vanguard-vs-schwab/

In the article (dated May 23, 2022) it says:

--------

One of the main pros of Vanguard and Schwab is low fees. In fact, they are both considered to be affordable in terms of fixed costs, and Vanguard’s prices are lower than Schwab’s across the board. For example, its mutual fund expense ratios average 0.10%, while Schwab’s go around 0.30%.

<SNIP>

Overall, if you compare Vanguard and Schwab, you will see that Vanguard has lower fees and a better pricing structure in most cases.

---------

Read this part of the article for further detail. It's titled "Pricing and Fees."

The next article I sited suggests that brokerage services are cheaper at Schwab IIRC. Fees on Mutual funds are what I'm most interested in and V has traditionally been the leader in low MF fees. YMMV

 

[Koolau]

As quoted above somewhere, my VG inheritance after FILs death was a nightmare as well. We finally got it finished up and all the money moved out.

The only place that has been worse is trying to get a $5,000 insurance policy out of AIG. FIL in law paid on the policy for 45 years. I expect it will take at least that long for us to collect the money. I'm convinced their fax machine is attached to a trash can.

I try to avoid using a FAX machine if possible. Certified mail is obviously slower, but no one can say they didn't get what you sent. Just a though as YMMV.

 

[MarieIG]

When I moved our $ to VG many years ago they clearly had the most and best index funds with the lowest expense ratios. But I realize Fidelity, Schwab and others have (been forced) closed the gap on both counts since, so maybe I should re-evaluate. In that Fidelity and Schwab do provide more customer service, I would expect their expenses have to be higher and customers pay somewhere, but maybe I'm wrong. You don't get something for nothing IME...

Schwab's sweep account pays very little interest. There is a huge spread between what it pays on its sweep and what it charges for their margin loans.

 

[PatrickA5]

I try to avoid using a FAX machine if possible. Certified mail is obviously slower, but no one can say they didn't get what you sent. Just a though as YMMV.

Oh, I should've added that we mailed all of the forms also. We double-checked the forms to make sure all of them were there. Of course, AIG came back and said they were missing page 2 of 13. So, we've faxed, mailed and called numerous times. Every time we think they have everything, we wait a couple of weeks and call only to find they are still missing something, or there is yet another form that needs to be filled out. We've gone through 4 original death certificates so far. When my MIL died, my FIL went through the same thing. I remember hearing him yell at someone on the phone that he was going to get in his car and drive there and they'd better have a check for him. I'm convinced that life insurance companies have a policy to make it as difficult as possible to collect.

 

[ModestNestEgg]

I have had a total of two customer service calls at Vanguard and also two at Fidelity.

Vanguard hasn't been horrible as some people have experienced. But it was just okay. They did answer my questions, but on both calls I got the sense the customer service person was having a bad day because both times they just seemed to be in a bad mood.

On both calls at Fidelity, the customer service person was more friendly and generally nicer to talk to.

I have to also wonder if it's because the work environment for the customer representatives is better at Fidelity and Vanguard's employee experience leaves more to be desired since mediocre service is often a sign of that.

 

[Koolau]

Oh, I should've added that we mailed all of the forms also. We double-checked the forms to make sure all of them were there. Of course, AIG came back and said they were missing page 2 of 13. So, we've faxed, mailed and called numerous times. Every time we think they have everything, we wait a couple of weeks and call only to find they are still missing something, or there is yet another form that needs to be filled out. We've gone through 4 original death certificates so far. When my MIL died, my FIL went through the same thing. I remember hearing him yell at someone on the phone that he was going to get in his car and drive there and they'd better have a check for him. I'm convinced that life insurance companies have a policy to make it as difficult as possible to collect.

Heh, heh, I don't think it's just insurance companies. Most companies that deal with YOUR money don't like giving it to you. Having said that, I was most impressed with Invesco (formerly Oppenheimer) when I cashed in my small Roth IRA. I called them once to get the ball rolling. They said the money would be mailed in so many days. The check arrived well ahead of that. Easy-Peasey. Full disclosure: The amount was relatively small (4 figures.) YMMV

 

[MRG]

Heh, heh, I don't think it's just insurance companies. Most companies that deal with YOUR money don't like giving it to you. Having said that, I was most impressed with Invesco (formerly Oppenheimer) when I cashed in my small Roth IRA. I called them once to get the ball rolling. They said the money would be mailed in so many days. The check arrived well ahead of that. Easy-Peasey. Full disclosure: The amount was relatively small (4 figures.) YMMV

+1

Any financial organization optimizes money coming in. In financial services companies, the check processing areas are SOTA, and the payments are done from back offices.

I know I've posted before about death claims being complex due to the numerous state laws, exceptions, and ever changing regulations. Additionally, insurance companies like to make sure you told the truth on your application before they pay that death claim.. Sometimes, additional steps and documentation are necessary. You might not be aware of all the details, but they happen.

 

[Willers]

Just curious: has anyone ever used the physical office in Scottsdale?

I was thinking of having DW go there if she wasn’t comfortable making IRA changes over the phone when I kick. I’ve used physical offices for Fidelity and Schwab, but never VG.

 

[JOBO]

Was with VG and Wells Trade for a decade for institutional diversification before consolidating all at Fidelity when I left the workforce.
Was not aware VG has a physical presence outside of Malvern
Learn something every day
https://www.mrmarvinallen.com/where-are-vanguard-offices-located/

SCHWAB is a publicly traded company with its own FDIC bank.
Fidelity is privately held without its own FDIC bank but it auto-rotates CMA funds between 26 FDIC-member banks.
Fidelity's 401k and HSA have been top-rated for years.

 

[Markola]

^^^^^ I still think it’s hard to go wrong with either Fidelity, Schwab or Vanguard and, according to my research, only those three. That chart denotes a particular client who is a more active trader and who wants an online bank. I don’t trade and I have a bank. My customer experience at Vanguard has been fine, given we are “all in” on their AUM program for thirty basis points with an assigned advisor with whom I can schedule appointments for twice annual checkups and any time I want something specific. It works great for us and we are very happy to be with Vanguard.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^ I still think it’s hard to go wrong with either Fidelity, Schwab or Vanguard and, according to my research, only those three. That chart denotes a particular client who is a more active trader and who wants an online bank. I don’t trade and I have a bank. My customer experience at Vanguard has been fine, given we are “all in” on their AUM program for thirty basis points with an assigned advisor with whom I can schedule appointments for twice annual checkups and any time I want something specific. It works great for us and we are very happy to be with Vanguard.

Pretty much my philosophy as well - except I've never gone the AUM route. I'm amazed at the low cost MFs. Here's hoping we don't jinx ourselves with our "praises."

 

[Markola]

^^^^^ I won’t recount the non-financial benefits I’ve listed elsewhere having to do with marital peace of mind for two people with different financial mindsets and interest levels, but that is easily worth 30 basis points alone. And I’d also pay the 30 basis points alone for “Mistake Prevention Insurance” just to keep my itchy trigger fingers off the keyboard whenever I read the NYT and become convinced that the latest horror will surely take us all down. What I didn’t expect is all the ways that a CFP with a Vanguard mindset in full alignment with my Boglehead convictions teaches me a lot and helps me to navigate post-full-time career financials and plan for the future. They have a planning module for every conceivable goal or need and, even though my financial knowledge is above average, I find their advice and logic challenges me and is always hard to argue with.

YMMV but it works for us!

 

[MRG]

^^^^^ I won’t recount the non-financial benefits I’ve listed elsewhere having to do with marital peace of mind for two people with different financial mindsets and interest levels, but that is easily worth 30 basis points alone. And I’d also pay the 30 basis points alone for “Mistake Prevention Insurance” just to keep my itchy trigger fingers off the keyboard whenever I read the NYT and become convinced that the latest horror will surely take us all down. What I didn’t expect is all the ways that a CFP with a Vanguard mindset in full alignment with my Boglehead convictions teaches me a lot and helps me to navigate post-full-time career financials and plan for the future. They have a planning module for every conceivable goal or need and, even though my financial knowledge is above average, I find their advice and logic challenges me and is always hard to argue with.

YMMV but it works for us!

+1
While I self manage 60% in Fidelity, Vanguard PAS has the remainder. Why? Well, in addition to the benefits you listed, my DW has no interest in managing money. I've seen Fidelity put in hard sales for bad products that she wouldn't have the knowledge to avoid. So if I go first or can no longer DIY, we'll move everything to Vanguard.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^ I won’t recount the non-financial benefits I’ve listed elsewhere having to do with marital peace of mind for two people with different financial mindsets and interest levels, but that is easily worth 30 basis points alone. And I’d also pay the 30 basis points alone for “Mistake Prevention Insurance” just to keep my itchy trigger fingers off the keyboard whenever I read the NYT and become convinced that the latest horror will surely take us all down. What I didn’t expect is all the ways that a CFP with a Vanguard mindset in full alignment with my Boglehead convictions teaches me a lot and helps me to navigate post-full-time career financials and plan for the future. They have a planning module for every conceivable goal or need and, even though my financial knowledge is above average, I find their advice and logic challenges me and is always hard to argue with.

YMMV but it works for us!

Sounds like it w*rks very well for you. I'm glad for you. Since I have made so many financial mistakes in the past, I no longer have an itchy trigger finger. So I don't need the additional help. Viva la difference because, well, YMMV.

 

[kgtest]

I've had no experience with Vanguard as all my accounts are at Schwab. Love Schwab!


Unfortunately , my nieces dad died a few months ago and one of the accounts he had was with Vanguard. A traditional IRA and a Roth IRA. Each niece gets 50%.


To make an extremely long story short we were instructed to first open up an inherited IRA and inherited Roth IRA with Vanguard and the money could move to those accounts and then we could transfer to Schwab. The long hold time , the almost inability to get a live person, the unbelievable clunkiness of the website, but then followed by an agent that seemed confused was something I never experienced. For whatever reason we were still not able to open the accounts after being on phone for three hours...really don't know what to do... theres 200k total of funds and we want this done...anyone have a by any chance a contact at vanguard in the service area or any advice on how to resolve? my anxiety ridden nieces were almost in tears......thank you very much....

When I call Vanguard, I always get a representative right away. They have treated me like royalty. I actually find there customer service to be best in class. Interesting that you had the opposite experience.

My DS opened inherited IRAs for my late sister's estate without issues. It was actually betterment that she had the issue with. They gave a similar experience you are describing of Vanguard. Maybe it depends on how well the person you are dealing with has been trained.

 

[orbops]

When I call Vanguard, I always get a representative right away. They have treated me like royalty. I actually find there customer service to be best in class. Interesting that you had the opposite experience.

My DS opened inherited IRAs for my late sister's estate without issues. It was actually betterment that she had the issue with. They gave a similar experience you are describing of Vanguard. Maybe it depends on how well the person you are dealing with has been trained.

Have you called Vanguard in the last 18 months?

 

[Whisper66]

Have you called Vanguard in the last 18 months?

FWIW - I've made several calls to VG since mid 2021 thru now. I got timely and reasonable service through the following events.... Consolidated ~6 accounts from various other companies into VG accounts. When my parent died, got asset cost basis updated where appropriate. Distributed VG IRA account assets to inherited IRA VG accounts of multiple beneficiaries. Opened Trust accounts at VG for beneficiaries and then distributed assets from 2 VG trust accounts to those trust accounts.

I know we like to discuss problems more than successes. Vanguard certainly has it's problems as do Fidelity and Schwab. To get a flavor for each companies issues, can google search things like complaints on Better Business Bureau or "Fidelity complaints". Can get some pretty good idea of types of issues people have with each company. When you have unresolved problems with one, I fully support moving to somewhere else. I just encourage folks to do their research first so we know what to expect wherever we go.