Places abroad to retire, claimed to be affordable.

[UnrealizedPotential]

The translation apps only are accurate at conveying very basic information. We used the Polish to English when my DIL was napping and her mom said I was old and fat. We laughed so hard and when Sylwia woke up and translated it was some else entirely.

Well, if I am ever in a situation where I can't speak a word of the language, then the apps are better than nothing. I've been in that situation before, and it was a big mistake. It is so hard. I have heard a few Russian speakers living in the FSU who speak English really well, and it amazes me.

 

[Amy T]

I am new to this community and really appreciate hearing all your ideas. I especially like reading this thread where I can share some of my own experiences.
I lived in Belgium for seven years, working there. It was an amazing experience and I have life long friends there that I miss very much. It is a great country for food, culture and pace of life. The weather wasn't great but getting better. I came back to the states as my parents were getting older. I wanted to start a small business not so much for money but for fun. I had a small amount of passive income. Once I arrived back and realized how far the health system had deteriorated I had to figure out what to do. It was even more expensive than I could have ever imagined and with bad care on top of that. Belgium had spoiled me in terms of health care. I was not willing to risk my life savings living in this country when a small health issue could wipe me out.
So now what? I read some articles in International Living and decided to try out Ecuador. I saw I could live there for the cost of health insurance in the US! I worked hard on my Spanish and could communicate even if poorly and did some volunteering. It was a fabulous experience and I love an adventure, I love bird watching and hiking, making Ecuador a good choice. However, the proposed budget was not a very good guide if you like to travel. It was more for low activity lifestyle. Also I was very disappointed in the weather. Quito while on the equator is also at 9,000 feet and it is cold with bad air pollution in the city. I would have moved to another city in Ecuador had I stayed but I was offered a job back in the states.
It was a great learning (practice retirement) experience. I now know better what budget I want to live a full life. I am now motivated even more to prepare well for the next time.
I will not stay in the states when I retire I refuse to participate in the health care racket. So I ponder where to next? Another latin country where I could be relatively rich in a poor country or back to Europe where I would be relatively poor in a rich country. Every country has its pluses and minuses. You truly cannot know a place until you live there for a while and learn the language at least a little.

 

[Diver]

How did you find a place to stay? VRBO? AIRBNB? Just curious as we would like to visit Mexico for and extended period and our only real concern is getting good safe accommodation and not be charged Gringo prices.

We rented an Airbnb owned by a local that was a block from the lake and right in town (Chapala, not Ajijic) that had a 50% monthly discount. It ended up being about $600/mo all-in. That said, I do agree with what Kevink says. It was apparent after a few weeks of meeting people that a similar humble apt would probably rent for about $300 all-in if we had waited until we got there and looked around and put feelers out.

Next time we go, we will get something for a week or two only, and once we get there, will look for something longer term, owned by locals. We now have friends and contacts here and understand better how things work and how to get local prices. Kevink has it right. Also, finding something in low season (now til Nov) is much easier and lower priced.

 

[NoiseBoy]

I have no idea, but for an older American on Medicare, how much would assisted living cost? Are the facilities if one had to move in nice?

Dad pays $3,500 in rent for a brand new 1 BDRM apartment in his assisted living facility. The price includes all the utilities except a phone, all his meals, weekly cleaning (for him and his apartment!), and they administer his medications with is a $250 fee included above. Beyond that, he pays ~$500 for his supplemental insurance and Medicare Part D. So call it $4k a month. This is middle America with a little price competition in our community after many years of not enough rooms.

I would assume the overseas facilities, even if you pay out of pocket, are nicer then what's in the U.S no?

Dad doesn't need anymore space and his facility is brand new. It would be nice if there was a park nearby or a walking trail, but beyond that I wouldn't want to pay for any other extras as he would not use them.

 

[martyp]

Spoiler alert. You really can't retire anywhere with only $150,000. At 4% that's $6000 per year or $500 per month.

I didn't make it past the first page of the link, but many places don't just allow you to come live there. You have to have a visa. Those usually are not free.

A lot of places around the world have high inflation.

It is do-able but you MUST live like a local and be incredibly disciplined. You can't eat imported food, you must cook at home for most of your meals, you must exercise and take care of your health. You would want to bring over money to a local bank to try and fight inflation.

Agreed. The Thai government requires an income of 65,000 baht (about $2000) per month to receive permission for long term stay. You can certainly live on much less than that in the Thai countryside but $500/month puts you in the same category as poor Thais. Plus you are prohibited from working.

 

[explanade]

That's a fun list to browse through. Interesting Italy is on there. I guess if you stay away from the tourist areas, there are many gorgeous little towns and villas scattered all over. When we travel with DBI and DSI (they live there) we typically go on the back roads through Tuscany. The agriturismo restaurants off the beaten path offer fresh meat, pasta, veggies and are very reasonable. The taxes are high but the health services and other covered benefits might be worth it.

They say this about health care:

Italy ranks #2 for healthcare and the national health care system is a treasure. You pay a small fee to join, then approximately $450 per year per person.

I can't imagine it's that easy to get into the system.

But even if you do, you can't assume they have enough doctors and nurses who speak English.

 

[Badger]

My reasons, if I were to leave the USA, would be as follows:

1) Climate
2) General attitude of folks is not like it used to be, becoming more divided, and the "I'm all right Jack" attitude
3) America's attitude towards healthcare is not the way I think it should be
4) The attitude of only the rich get choices and the less fortunate do not count, is also getting tedious.

+1 I hear you. We have been thinking the same during the past few years. We would prefer a warm climate but not enough to overrule more important priorities. A less expensive cost of living would not rule out any places either. So far for us it would look like Canada, New Zealand, or maybe one of the Scandinavian counties. We have lived in a lovely beach area for many decades and never found a better place in the US for us after retirement but the atmosphere in this country could encourage us to think more seriously. Not really happy with the developing attitudes, chronic negativity, and people who think they should control my life.


Cheers!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

+1 I hear you. We have been thinking the same during the past few years. We would prefer a warm climate but not enough to overrule more important priorities. A less expensive cost of living would not rule out any places either. So far for us it would look like Canada, New Zealand, or maybe one of the Scandinavian counties. We have lived in a lovely beach area for many decades and never found a better place in the US for us after retirement but the atmosphere in this country could encourage us to think more seriously. Not really happy with the developing attitudes, chronic negativity, and people who think they should control my life.


Cheers!

+1 Canada is a little too cold for us, and it is an easy move as we are Canadian Citizens, we are considering Malta in the Med. However, where we are in Florida is way more civilized than some places, we are fortunate to live in one of a few sensible counties with an abundance of services and excellent access to healthcare.

We would never want to live in the cheapsville, under serviced, LCOL, states to our immediate North West and West,, they have all gone mad in our opinion, and do a dis-service to their residents, if it spreads here then we are off for sure.

 

[kcowan]

we are considering Malta in the Med.

We have (rich) friends who chose Malta and Ireland as tax havens. They both relented after a few years and decided that Canada was better for the summer and they also own in PV MX where we own. Happily paying taxes in Canada. Our all in tax rate is under 15% on family income over $200k. We still have to deal with dental and meds. Canadian health care does not cover meds outside hospital. For something chronic like cancer, that can mount up quickly. So far so good.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

We have (rich) friends who chose Malta and Ireland as tax havens. They both relented after a few years and decided that Canada was better for the summer and they also own in PV MX where we own. Happily paying taxes in Canada. Our all in tax rate is under 15% on family income over $200k. We still have to deal with dental and meds. Canadian health care does not cover meds outside hospital. For something chronic like cancer, that can mount up quickly. So far so good.

Can you buy a supplemental policy that covers those shortcomings?

 

[kcowan]

Can you buy a supplemental policy that covers those shortcomings?

Yes as long it is not a pre-exisitng condition. They are expensive though.

 

[explanade]

We have (rich) friends who chose Malta and Ireland as tax havens. They both relented after a few years and decided that Canada was better for the summer and they also own in PV MX where we own. Happily paying taxes in Canada. Our all in tax rate is under 15% on family income over $200k. We still have to deal with dental and meds. Canadian health care does not cover meds outside hospital. For something chronic like cancer, that can mount up quickly. So far so good.

How do you get a resident visa in Malta and Ireland?

Those countries are convenient for Europe travel though not as it would be on the mainland.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

How do you get a resident visa in Malta and Ireland?

Those countries are convenient for Europe travel though not as it would be on the mainland.

Malta has a ferry that goes to Italy. Resident visas are available by financial investment and in our case I am applying for Citizenship as my mum was born there.

https://malta-residency.com/residence-visa/

https://legal-malta.com/immigration/pr-conditions

 

[explanade]

Malta has a ferry that goes to Italy. Resident visas are available by financial investment and in our case I am applying for Citizenship as my mum was born there.

https://malta-residency.com/residence-visa/

https://legal-malta.com/immigration/pr-conditions

From the first link:

Eligibility to the Malta Residence and Visa Programme requires applicants to satisfy a three-tier investment, including:

- An initial contribution of €30,000 (non-refundable), in the manner as requested by Identity Malta;

- A Qualifying Investment in a form determined by Identity Malta having an initial value of €250,000. This investment ought to be held for a minimum period of 5 years from the date of the issue of the Malta Residence and Visa Programme certificate;

- Title to a qualifying property, which must be held for a minimum period of 5 years from the date of issue of the certificate. This can be either through ownership of an immovable property purchased for not less than €320,000 for property situated in Malta, or €270,000 for a property situated in Gozo or in the South of Malta; OR through Leasing for a rent of not less than €12,000 per annum in the case of property situated in Malta or €10,000 per annum in the case of property situated in Gozo or in the South of Malta.

So you have to contribute 30k Euros AND invest 250k Euros AND buy a property worth 320k Euros?

Combined it would be tying up 600k Euros, 30k of which seems like outright payment.

For that I would expect to be enrolled in their health care system.

 

[Rianne]

They say this about health care:

I can't imagine it's that easy to get into the system.

But even if you do, you can't assume they have enough doctors and nurses who speak English.

I went into emergency, saw 3 specialists while there visiting DBI and DSI. Was brought there by ambulance to University of Bologna Medical Center (oldest in the world). Did not pay a dime. DBI/DSI live above Bologna in Apennine Mountains. My DH father born and raised there. Many cousins and relatives live there. CBS Sunday Morning (just this morning) said we are citizens by blood. I never knew that.

 

[bigreader]

I went into emergency, saw 3 specialists while there visiting DBI and DSI. Was brought there by ambulance to University of Bologna Medical Center (oldest in the world). Did not pay a dime. DBI/DSI live above Bologna in Apennine Mountains. My DH father born and raised there. Many cousins and relatives live there. CBS Sunday Morning (just this morning) said we are citizens by blood. I never knew that.

It's my understanding that everyone is entitled to emergency care in Italy at no or very low cost. All legal residents are entitled to join the national health service. I think that if you are not a citizen and are not working, you must pay an annual amount. The cost is driven by your locality, but the numbers I have seen are under $500. There are modest co-pays for some services, though.


Sounds like your husband may eligible for recognition of his Italian citizenship assuming that he was born before his father became a US citizen (if his Dad even became a citizen). You can check the website for the Italian consulate in the US for the state where you live for more information. If your husband's citizenship is recognized, you would also be entitled to citizenship based on your marriage.


Just generally, a lot of us are "hyphenated" Americans and potentially entitled to citizenship in another country. Citizenship can really change the landscape if you want to retire abroad.
BR



BR

 

[urn2bfree]

Portugal has some sort of deal friendlier to those seeking to relocate there. Golden Visa- as I understand it, if you buy a property worth €500000 and hold for 6 years, you can then apply for citizenship. There are other ways if you employ people, but property ownership seems the most accessible.

 

[brett]

My spouse and I went traveled through the UK years ago. Because our parents/grandparents were born there we were able to obtain a status that allowed us to work, use the healthcare system....virtually everything except vote.

Our son did the same a few years ago. He had the same status because of his grandparents. He got off the plane and within a week had a job and a National Insurance Number....which gave him access to all services and the right to work immediately. Other countries have similar provisions.

The issue often becomes tax, and the requirement to list world wide assets. Some EU countries are going down this path with out of country retirees.