Retiring abroad

Ramen, we both had been travelling a lot over the years to Italy, so we had already been picking up the language, and took some courses in the US. That said, becoming fluent in Italian is a must if you are going to live here (as opposed to visit for a week as a tourist). Permanent residence permits (which we have) require that you can speak, read, and write Italian. We also both studied French in university and use it in our travels. Personally, I think it is nearly impossible to learn a new language without regular use in your day-to-day life. One thing to keep in mind, it is light years harder to learn a new language after age 55-60...the memory requirements alone can be daunting. However, we both moved here in our mid-50s and identified acquiring a new language as one of the positive aspects! You can force your brain to grow new neurons for language (these are generally left to atropy after a certain age and disappear from non use, I've read). So, it was a definite challenge, and remains so!

Culturally, the Italian Swiss are closer to Italy in some respects than to northern (Swiss German) cantons. This seems to be true to some extent as well for the French speakers of the Romandie cantons. Most Swiss are comfortable with at least two of the national languages and, increasingly, English is becoming more common, especially among the young and the university educated. The Swiss as a whole are considered a bit hard to get to know. We've succeeded in some cases in making strong friendships with native Swiss, but it took a while. Above all else, the Swiss are a rule-driven people. They have little patience for those who break rules of society, laws, etc. As it turns out, this fits well with us. And Italy is a few kilometers away if we want to let our hair down! :)

I would suggest that you don't let your fears/anxieties hold you back. You can work on the language grammar beforehand and then put it to use once you are in Europe. Services like Lingoci allow you to have one-on-one sessions with native speaking tutors at a fairly low cost via zoom, skype, etc. Once here you will have an immediate motivation to learn to communicate quickly and well. And there are immersive language programs everywhere. Most Europeans speak several languages routinely and are generally quite patient with those who struggle with one that they speak well. They realize that they are in the same situation themselves in other countries.

Go for it!

-BB

Is that requirement specific to your canton?

One of my old college roommates spent ~15 years working in Switzerland & I doubt he knows more than a few words of Italian.

His second language is German.
 
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Is that requirement specific to your canton?

One of my old college roommates spent ~15 years working in Switzerland & I doubt he knows more than a few words of Italian.

His second language is German.

Sorry, yes. My canton, Ticino, is Italian-speaking. The language requirement is specific to the primary language of the canton you live in. If it were Geneva, then French, Zurich, then German, etc. But it has to be one of the four major languages.

The fourth, Romansh, is a descendant of vulgar (non-classical) Latin, just like other Romance language--Italian, French, Spanish-- and is spoken in various dialects in a few areas of one canton (Graubunden), where it is an official cantonal language, along with German and Italian. About 50-60,000 people. Many are descendants of the Rhaetian people of the 6th century BCE.

-BB
 
I live near Geneva, Switzerland, but on the French side of the border.

Regarding taxes in France:
- social taxes: a flat 17.2% on all passive income, pretty much inescapable
- income tax: I carefully manage my income to be in the 11% tax bracket, but my actual tax rate is closer to 3%. That being said, for those with large pensions the income tax rate can quickly become punitive (up to 45%).
- VAT is 20%, but even then the cost of living is quite a bit lower than in the US
- Property tax is much lower than anything that I've experienced in the US, including low tax Alabama. However, for those with large real estate holdings, an annual RE wealth tax is levied.

And the inheritance tax is very high (up to 55%).

But for me personally, considering that the social tax I pay give me access to the healthcare system at minimal out of pocket cost, France is a real bargain.

I understand you are an EU passport holder, so your taxes are different. I just wanted to add some clarity for the US citizens reading the thread. For the US citizens, in France US-sourced pension income and equivalents are not taxed (SS, 401K, 403b, Roth, IRAs). (In reality, they are shown as income with tax and a full and immediate credit. This raises the effective marginal rate). Other US sourced passive income/gains are also handled by the tax treaty, with a similar full French credit (although this is a simplification).

After having come to an agreement with France in 2019 (and a related court battle in the US), the IRS has also now acknowledged that the French social taxes are in effect income taxes and eligible for the foreign tax credit, for example when levied on net French rental income, French capital gains or for those still working in France.

The main French tax issues for retirees continue to be the inheritance tax and the wealth/real estate tax.
 
Is net rental income from the US taxable in France?
 
Oh wow. Thank you Alan. This is a good document.
 
I retired to Uruguay 8 years ago. Best decision ever…. Life here has changed a lot for the better in this time.

No one seemed to mention Visas as not all countries are welcoming to new full time residents. Not all countries will allow non citizens to purchase property or land. So legal aspects of retiring overseas must be looked at. Switzerland for example didn’t allow foreigners easy access to buying property.

You don’t have to close your US based accounts but you must provide a physical residential address. No mail forwarding PO Box will do. Although you can still use a PO Box/mail forwarding service as your mailing address. I used a family members and as some institutions require proof I would pay the Netflix bill for them and still get to use it myself. Please note this is not the same as residency or declaring domicile which will raise all kinds of tax issues.

Life has changed a lot for us and now we still call Uruguay home but we have a 2nd home in the US so we can use that address. We never spend 50% of our time in the US. We do pay taxes on our income regardless of where it comes from to the IRS.

Living in another country will likely mean learning another language, and all the social issues there. Learning new govt regulations, and dealing with bureaucracies and delays that the US has gotten past. Part of the challenge and experience.

You need to expect life to be less convenient than in the US. Stores will not carry what you are used to and Amazon may not be an option. But again it is part of the adventure.

I heartily suggest it especially if like us, you can drastically reduce your cost of living. We were able to sell our million dollar home in LA with huge carrying costs and buy a lovely home 2 blocks from the beach for a 1/4 of the proceeds from the sale and invest all that money. Property taxes, insurance utilities etc are about 12% of what we used to pay. So we live better for much less. Now if you live in rural or a low cost area of the US then you may not save a dime on housing expenses. So everyone has to do their own calculations but the potential is there…
 
There is a treaty between the USA and France. Item 6 covers it

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/france.pdf

This is the 1996 version of the US-France tax treaty; it has been significantly amended since then, especially in 2004 (with major changes to the treatment of retirement income). Unfortunately the IRS doesn’t seem to have an “as amended” version available so you need to read the subsequent protocols (etc) and make the changes yourself. All the documents can be found here: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/france-tax-treaty-documents
 
This is the 1996 version of the US-France tax treaty; it has been significantly amended since then, especially in 2004 (with major changes to the treatment of retirement income). Unfortunately the IRS doesn’t seem to have an “as amended” version available so you need to read the subsequent protocols (etc) and make the changes yourself. All the documents can be found here: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/france-tax-treaty-documents

This seems to be an up-to-date version of the treaty incorporating the amendments, but it’s not an official source and due diligence is even more required than usual (and to be clear, I haven’t done that due diligence): https://franceintheus.org/IMG/pdf/Consolidated_version_of_French-US_tax_treaty.pdf
 
I was in the Netherlands a few years ago, needed help with something, so I asked some random guy if he spoke English.

"Of course I do, I'm Dutch!" he said.

Most people in the Netherlands speak english. I believe it's more or less the same in Sweden and Norway.
 
Our daughter just moved to Portugal (from Austin), if you're interested in
her observations of that country (from a Millennial's viewpoint, anyway).

 
I am not sure where you are at in your thinking but to me the most important issue is finding someplace where you can you actually stay indefinitely!

I am now a dual US-EU citizen and so can live anywhere in the EU. But as a US citizen, I was not automatically entitled to stay in the EU indefinitely. No matter where in the world you go, to me the first order of business is sorting out whether or not you have a reasonable shot at being able to remain for as long as you like. Other countries have their own immigration concerns and your US passport might let you visit but you don't get to stay! As other posters have shown, it is very doable, but I think that it is the essential first step. Once you figure out where you have a chance to stay indefinitely, then I'd think through financial implications. There are tax issues. Many countries have a treaty with the US to avoid double taxation, but the devil is in the details since each jurisdiction will grab what they can and leave you to reclaim. Also, many other countries tax wealth, not just income.

I have lived in the UK, EU and Switzerland and it might not be that more expensive but it sure was a lot more complicated. But once you narrow down your country, you can drill down and get a better sense of how the tax regime will affect you. As others noted, currency risk and banking differences are pretty universal and I have not found them insurmountable.

Sounds like fun!

Best, BR

Also, if you are interested in the Nordics, and you can make it happen, don't overlook Fiinland.
 
Expats when we retire

We've been doing our due diligence for living abroad when we retire. While we will always keep our American citizenship, there is something to be said for spending time in another country. We've traveled a good bit on long vacays enough to know where we'd like to spend more of our time in the not-too-distant future as we're counting down to 18 months and popping smoke.

While it's true you can live comfortably in a foreign country on less than some places in the U.S., you have to be careful and not get sucked in by the glossy content of magazines like International Living, etc. While they offer a good start for learning the basics, they tend to hit the high notes and underplay the negatives.

But here's where our minds are in considering expat living:

COST OF LIVING / HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE:
We've found parts of Europe offer a lot of bang for the buck in terms of low, reasonable costs of living and quality of amenities. We like France, Italy, Croatia, Spain, Greece, Turkey, and Portugal. But our top 3 are France, Portugal, and Italy. We loved Turkey and the cost of living is insanely cheap there but with Erdoğan in power leaning more towards fundamentalism, we're going to pass for the time being. Sure each area has it's issues as far as bureaucracy and quirks, but these are mere tradeoffs for what you get in return. Now if you insist on living, shopping, dining in the main historic centers /tourist areas, you'll pay a lot more but if you go a few blocks off the main attractions, menu prices, hotel and apt.rents drop exponentially. We know a guy who went to a Portuguese restaurant and paid 19.50 Euro for a bottle of wine. Our Portuguese waiters who liked us told us to avoid paying prices like that and that if the house wine is Portuguese, it's usually as good if not better than the pricier labels. It's true...we get a liter jar of Vino Tinto for less than 3 Euros from the Duoro valley at this seaside restaurant in Porto and it was some of the best wine we've ever had. And going to nieghborhood taverns you're eating and drinking for less than 20 Euros a couple and it's really, really great!

GOOD INFRASTRUCTURE & TRANSPORTATION:
Got to say the public transportation and affordability of same is really, really great. High speed trains, public bus & metros --- in many places you'll never need a car, which is good 'cuz fuel costs are high. But we've crisscrossed the continent by train and low-cost flights (RyanAir, EasyJet, etc.) and it's amazing how connected you can be at a low cost. BTW -- France has some of the best highways I've ever driven and the main highways most people drive speed limit due to radar all along the routes. I was amazed that the big trucks were the slowest on the road as they are hightly regulated.

HOUSING / RENTS :
We've found some amazing values for apartments, houses, hotels, AirBnB's, etc. in some really great places. We scored a large BR above Harry's Bar in Rome along the Via Veneto which is high-dollar area and we kept pinching ourselves at the luck. Amalfi coast hotels on shoulder season are awesome long-term and I need not say more.

HEALTHCARE ACCESS:
So France, Portugal, Italy have very high healthcare ratings according to the WHO and we've had to use medical services on a couple of occasions.. couldn't be more pleased. Plus I needed a prescription filled that cost me almost $1K in the states and in Spain it was less than 30 Euros for the same equivalent. Crazy huh? I've discovered different insurance options that are less costly than U.S. and would allow me excellent care at private care facilities. If we get a long-term visa, many countries allow you to get on the national health system with a few exceptions.


FOOD --- "Enough said...it's fresh, cheap, and really good. Plus the EU prohibits a lot of the chemicals and pesticides we use in the U.S. We've shopped the local markets and the trick is you only buy what you plan on eating in the next couple of days 'cuz they don't use sprays to keep food on the shelf long.

WATER --- probably more highly regulated than in the U.S.

SAFETY & CRIME -- Portugal is the safest country in the world, very low violence and gun violence is pratically 'nil. We felt safe at all hours thanks to a good police and military patrol in public areas. Sure there are parts of Rome, Paris, Lisbon that I'd never dare going in but that's the same to be said of NYC, L.A., Dallas-Ft Worth, New Orleans, or Tampa. Be smart and you're good. Now you'll need to be smart about pickpockets and street hustlers but that's true in any huge touristy area. We generally keep things under coats and in front when we venture out and a little street-smarts goes a long way. But in general, we've not experienced anything. We do know of people who've gotten ripped off but in every instance they say they weren't paying attention or left a bag on a back of a chair when they got up to go to the restroom or something like that.

CULTURE -- again..no need to explain.

POLITICAL STABILITY:
This can be highly subjective but in general France and Portugal are our favs with Portugal being more level headed about how the government responds.

PEOPLE: Portugal is the friendliest place we've been with Italy a close second. France... in the southern region much more friendly than Paris or major northern areas. Spain is good but big cities are typical big cities. Had great experiences in Naples which we were concerned about but mostly good experiences.

SO WHAT NOW?
We are winding down our careers, looking at long-term tourist visas. Sure there are residency visas and other programs but they each have pros & cons, etc. Portugal has a really attraction NHR (Non Habitual Residency) visa where you're taxed at 10% for 10 yrs but thanks to tax treaty with U.S. you'll likely pay nothing after paying U.S. taxes first depending on your tax situation. (there's a lot to unwind there and I won't get into to it).

The longterm visa will likely be for France for 1yr and allows us to travel all through Europe. You can renew each year. There's other ways to avoid the hassle like doing the "Schengen Hop" on a regular tourist visa but there's a longer story than we have time here for, just google it if interested.

AT THE END OF THE DAY:
We'll always be Americans and return off and on to the mother country...but if we find something that's too awesome to turn down...(like buying a small apartment or house overseas as our base)... we'll be renting. Sure you can do the 1 Euro homes in Italy and if that's your thing, more power to you. I'm just not that brave (anymore).

We've never had language barriers that couldn't be overcome with a little practice and Google Translate....... it's a great big beautiful world and when you spend time away from your comfort zone and give up the routine of American life, you'll discover some really interesting things about yourself.

P.S. BUT ---- if you can't live without super convenience and need instant customer service, and you need the Super WalMart around the corner (yet they do have some things like that though) ...you may need some conditioning. I recommend taking tours and guided excursions if you're not comfortable doing your own itinerary. That's how we started years ago and we've since gone on our own and have had many more pluses than minuses.
 
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Is anyone considering retiring abroad? Or are you already retired abroad?

What factors should you consider when deciding which country to move to?

I own a $550K single family house in California but I am in the process of buying a $160K condo 3 bd, 2 ba in Tieling, China. My retirement will rotate from 3 to 6 months in China and the rest of the year in California. The most important reason for China is cost of living is about 1/3 of California and high speed rail makes it easy travel to Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc. at reasonable cost while sitting with more leg room than first class on an airline. Local Taxi are $2 to $3, a Chinese meal is $7 per person, and health and dental cost are so low, you do not need health insurance. I will maintain my US health insurance and my US carrier will pay for emergency care overseas.

My best friend in California recently had a stroke and she is paralyzed and she cannot go to the bathroom by herself. For her condition, a Nursing house in California cost about $8K a month or a live in nurse will cost $5K a month. In Tieling the cost is about 25%. If I ever need long term care, I will retire in China to take advantage of the low health cost. I avoid paying the high cost of long term health insurance in the US. I also understand that Mexico has lower health cost. I really believe the US health industry is ripping off the public.
 
I own a $550K single family house in California but I am in the process of buying a $160K condo 3 bd, 2 ba in Tieling, China. My retirement will rotate from 3 to 6 months in China and the rest of the year in California. The most important reason for China is cost of living is about 1/3 of California and high speed rail makes it easy travel to Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc. at reasonable cost while sitting with more leg room than first class on an airline. Local Taxi are $2 to $3, a Chinese meal is $7 per person, and health and dental cost are so low, you do not need health insurance. I will maintain my US health insurance and my US carrier will pay for emergency care overseas.

My best friend in California recently had a stroke and she is paralyzed and she cannot go to the bathroom by herself. For her condition, a Nursing house in California cost about $8K a month or a live in nurse will cost $5K a month. In Tieling the cost is about 25%. If I ever need long term care, I will retire in China to take advantage of the low health cost. I avoid paying the high cost of long term health insurance in the US. I also understand that Mexico has lower health cost. I really believe the US health industry is ripping off the public.

With the current anti-American political climate in China, I am surprised that any (Asian) Americans are buying properties in China now.
 
We've been doing our due diligence for living abroad when we retire. While we will always keep our American citizenship, there is something to be said for spending time in another country. We've traveled a good bit on long vacays enough to know where we'd like to spend more of our time in the not-too-distant future as we're counting down to 18 months and popping smoke.

While it's true you can live comfortably in a foreign country on less than some places in the U.S., you have to be careful and not get sucked in by the glossy content of magazines like International Living, etc. While they offer a good start for learning the basics, they tend to hit the high notes and underplay the negatives.

But here's where our minds are in considering expat living:

COST OF LIVING / HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE:
We've found parts of Europe offer a lot of bang for the buck in terms of low, reasonable costs of living and quality of amenities. We like France, Italy, Croatia, Spain, Greece, Turkey, and Portugal. But our top 3 are France, Portugal, and Italy. We loved Turkey and the cost of living is insanely cheap there but with Erdoğan in power leaning more towards fundamentalism, we're going to pass for the time being. Sure each area has it's issues as far as bureaucracy and quirks, but these are mere tradeoffs for what you get in return. Now if you insist on living, shopping, dining in the main historic centers /tourist areas, you'll pay a lot more but if you go a few blocks off the main attractions, menu prices, hotel and apt.rents drop exponentially. We know a guy who went to a Portuguese restaurant and paid 19.50 Euro for a bottle of wine. Our Portuguese waiters who liked us told us to avoid paying prices like that and that if the house wine is Portuguese, it's usually as good if not better than the pricier labels. It's true...we get a liter jar of Vino Tinto for less than 3 Euros from the Duoro valley at this seaside restaurant in Porto and it was some of the best wine we've ever had. And going to nieghborhood taverns you're eating and drinking for less than 20 Euros a couple and it's really, really great!

GOOD INFRASTRUCTURE & TRANSPORTATION:
Got to say the public transportation and affordability of same is really, really great. High speed trains, public bus & metros --- in many places you'll never need a car, which is good 'cuz fuel costs are high. But we've crisscrossed the continent by train and low-cost flights (RyanAir, EasyJet, etc.) and it's amazing how connected you can be at a low cost. BTW -- France has some of the best highways I've ever driven and the main highways most people drive speed limit due to radar all along the routes. I was amazed that the big trucks were the slowest on the road as they are hightly regulated.

HOUSING / RENTS :
We've found some amazing values for apartments, houses, hotels, AirBnB's, etc. in some really great places. We scored a large BR above Harry's Bar in Rome along the Via Veneto which is high-dollar area and we kept pinching ourselves at the luck. Amalfi coast hotels on shoulder season are awesome long-term and I need not say more.

HEALTHCARE ACCESS:
So France, Portugal, Italy have very high healthcare ratings according to the WHO and we've had to use medical services on a couple of occasions.. couldn't be more pleased. Plus I needed a prescription filled that cost me almost $1K in the states and in Spain it was less than 30 Euros for the same equivalent. Crazy huh? I've discovered different insurance options that are less costly than U.S. and would allow me excellent care at private care facilities. If we get a long-term visa, many countries allow you to get on the national health system with a few exceptions.


FOOD --- "Enough said...it's fresh, cheap, and really good. Plus the EU prohibits a lot of the chemicals and pesticides we use in the U.S. We've shopped the local markets and the trick is you only buy what you plan on eating in the next couple of days 'cuz they don't use sprays to keep food on the shelf long.

WATER --- probably more highly regulated than in the U.S.

SAFETY & CRIME -- Portugal is the safest country in the world, very low violence and gun violence is pratically 'nil. We felt safe at all hours thanks to a good police and military patrol in public areas. Sure there are parts of Rome, Paris, Lisbon that I'd never dare going in but that's the same to be said of NYC, L.A., Dallas-Ft Worth, New Orleans, or Tampa. Be smart and you're good. Now you'll need to be smart about pickpockets and street hustlers but that's true in any huge touristy area. We generally keep things under coats and in front when we venture out and a little street-smarts goes a long way. But in general, we've not experienced anything. We do know of people who've gotten ripped off but in every instance they say they weren't paying attention or left a bag on a back of a chair when they got up to go to the restroom or something like that.

CULTURE -- again..no need to explain.

POLITICAL STABILITY:
This can be highly subjective but in general France and Portugal are our favs with Portugal being more level headed about how the government responds.

PEOPLE: Portugal is the friendliest place we've been with Italy a close second. France... in the southern region much more friendly than Paris or major northern areas. Spain is good but big cities are typical big cities. Had great experiences in Naples which we were concerned about but mostly good experiences.

SO WHAT NOW?
We are winding down our careers, looking at long-term tourist visas. Sure there are residency visas and other programs but they each have pros & cons, etc. Portugal has a really attraction NHR (Non Habitual Residency) visa where you're taxed at 10% for 10 yrs but thanks to tax treaty with U.S. you'll likely pay nothing after paying U.S. taxes first depending on your tax situation. (there's a lot to unwind there and I won't get into to it).

The longterm visa will likely be for France for 1yr and allows us to travel all through Europe. You can renew each year. There's other ways to avoid the hassle like doing the "Schengen Hop" on a regular tourist visa but there's a longer story than we have time here for, just google it if interested.

AT THE END OF THE DAY:
We'll always be Americans and return off and on to the mother country...but if we find something that's too awesome to turn down...(like buying a small apartment or house overseas as our base)... we'll be renting. Sure you can do the 1 Euro homes in Italy and if that's your thing, more power to you. I'm just not that brave (anymore).

We've never had language barriers that couldn't be overcome with a little practice and Google Translate....... it's a great big beautiful world and when you spend time away from your comfort zone and give up the routine of American life, you'll discover some really interesting things about yourself.

P.S. BUT ---- if you can't live without super convenience and need instant customer service, and you need the Super WalMart around the corner (yet they do have some things like that though) ...you may need some conditioning. I recommend taking tours and guided excursions if you're not comfortable doing your own itinerary. That's how we started years ago and we've since gone on our own and have had many more pluses than minuses.



Really nice informative post. Thanks for all the good information. I am curious how the tax situation works with a a one year tourist visa? I am particularly interested in Portugal or France but my understanding is that you can only stay 180 days and leave the Schengen region altogether and must stay out a minimum of 90 days. Otherwise you’ll be subject to taxes. Will you be subject to French tax on a one year visa?
 
With the current anti-American political climate in China, I am surprised that any (Asian) Americans are buying properties in China now.
There is some anti-American sentiment in China due to the trade war but not much. Chinese people still like and admire American “people” and American “culture” …..but they dislike the American “government” and the American “news media”. Most Chinese people I know in China are smart enough to know the difference.
 
SO WHAT NOW?

The longterm visa will likely be for France for 1yr and allows us to travel all through Europe. You can renew each year. There's other ways to avoid the hassle like doing the "Schengen Hop" on a regular tourist visa but there's a longer story than we have time here for, just google it if interested.

You didn't say you'd do this but just in case, be careful with this idea of getting a 1 yr long term visa and then not having some type of permanent address. It's not that easy especially in France. Many EU countries that offer a long term visa rightly want to know where you are and what you're doing. If you move you need to change your address and in France this isn't quite that easy, it really depends on the prefecture. Another example, I've heard in Croatia that the local police will drop in often to see if you're still at your registered address.

If you're a one year and done person then you can get away with not submitting taxes and bouncing around and many do. If you want to build a life in the EU you'll quickly need a better plan. If people just want to bounce around the EU for a few years I wouldn't get a long term visa at all, which can be costly and a PITA. I'd just plan to leave the Schengen when I need to and there are many lucrative options these days.

Regarding language. I've been in France several years and I'm far from fluent enough to sit down at the local tabac and bullshit with the locals. I can read Camus and the news but spoken French is another language entirely. I wouldn't underestimate how long it'll take to learn to really bond with non-English speakers in France. Others can chime in but assuming hard daily work in your late 40-60's I'd say it'll take 4-6 years. There are ways to speed it up and no I don't mean l'ecole horizontal though that works too.

Bonne Courage!
 
Really nice informative post. Thanks for all the good information. I am curious how the tax situation works with a a one year tourist visa? I am particularly interested in Portugal or France but my understanding is that you can only stay 180 days and leave the Schengen region altogether and must stay out a minimum of 90 days. Otherwise you’ll be subject to taxes. Will you be subject to French tax on a one year visa?

Yes, you will need to submit your French taxes on even a one year visitor visa. There is a tax treaty with the US so for many it's not that bad. The hard part is figuring out how to do it. Many people who only stay for a few years never do it. If you want to stay in France long term you need to demonstrate 5 years of paying French taxes.
 
Really nice informative post. Thanks for all the good information. I am curious how the tax situation works with a a one year tourist visa? I am particularly interested in Portugal or France but my understanding is that you can only stay 180 days and leave the Schengen region altogether and must stay out a minimum of 90 days. Otherwise you’ll be subject to taxes. Will you be subject to French tax on a one year visa?

Not the responder, just to clarify it's a limit of 90 days in 180 in the Schengen zone. You can essentially get 180 in a year but it must be spaced out. I was a little unclear about your response.

As posted above, you'll need a lease or proof of accommodation in France for your long stay visa (and health care insurance and adequate resources). There is a 6 month and 12 month "non working" version, btw. The 12 month is the one that can lead to the residency. Once you spend over 6 months in a year you'll establish residency, have the need to file taxes as well as trigger national health care obligations. There are English-speaking services that can help, including public ones. My tax service in France is 1/6 the cost of the US.

I have a friend that was a UK residence card holder but with a place in France. She had been going back and forth freely. Then Brexit happened, she got trapped by COVID, and overstayed without a visa (she thought getting married to a Frenchie would solve it -- nope). She's working through her ban and passport flag.

I've also heard some countries have a requirement for physical nights within the country as part of the VISA conditions. I don't think France has the same requirement.

I agree that oral comprehension is tougher. I lived 2+ years in French Switzerland and spoke some part-time French within my office. But the area was 40% expat, and english was used mostly in work. Still, I struggle with fast, informal speaking barkeeps and getting more than 50% of the dialog in certain fast-talking movies/tv. Idioms, slang, liaison, "word swallowing" and soundalike verb tenses make it challenging. I guess I should have tried that horizontal method.
 
Another cultural consideration is going to be language. Seasoned travelers know you can survive just about anywhere.

Also to be considered is the fact that although english is spoken in many countries, their use and understanding of english varies. Certain expressions, idioms, phrases etc could either mean something different or make no sense.
 
Also to be considered is the fact that although english is spoken in many countries, their use and understanding of english varies. Certain expressions, idioms, phrases etc could either mean something different or make no sense.

One of the funniest ones I heard from a woman who visited the UK, when someone offered to "Knock you up in the morning"

Wasn't what she thought... :LOL:
 
Great thread, I'm subscribing!

I have family in France and sometimes toy with the idea of retiring there (I'm fluent in French and my wife has conversational skills), although I wouldn't expect it to be financially beneficial vs staying in the US. I'm still 10 years from retirement and have been toying with the idea of actively looking for a job in France and a way to try it.

Some good friends moved to Ecuador in early 2020 (yeah right as COVID hit) and they love it there, cost of living is lower, great expat community but not to the point of having an enclave that isolates you from the local culture. They worked with a local attorney that made it pretty easy to navigate the paperwork and financial gotchas, something that I would defeintely consider doing regardelss of target country.

I'm definitely attracted to the idea of setting up somewhere completely new and different and explore. My wife is more attracted ot the idea of settling somewher for a few months and exploring with a home base in the US. Probably a "soft" way to try it out, but there is a big difference to me between having a permanent home vs a 3-month rental. I like to tinker with woodworking, I would have tools in a permanent home, but not realisitc in a short-term stay. I like to play music, and may want to have my instruments aound, etc...
 
Also, rt-Texas makes an excellent point about qualified IRAs, like Roths. Switzerland does not recognize them as such and so expects me to pay tax on any withdrawals from Roths as ordinary income! But as I wrote earlier, the US IRS does allow a lot of credit for these taxes against your US tax bill. Also, Switzerland does not have a capital gains tax. Look carefully into these things in the country you are considering--there may be both negative and positive surprises.

-BB

Do you happen to know the tax ramifications of Portugal?
Do you know a good site to find the tax laws easily and "digestible" to read for non-CPA/accountants?
It is a very "trendy"/popular expat location. It looks beautiful. Even being tucked away in a "corner" of Europe, it is still very close to so many countries... Spain, France, Italy, Greece etc...

Maybe Antarctica taxes are advantageous! :LOL:
 
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