Travel hopes for 2022

[Bamaman]

I've been looking at a HA trip early in the year.

It is so expensive, at least $300-400 a night for places to stay, after all the taxes and various fees are added up.
Then car rentals are $150-200 a day for small cars.
With airfare, dining and other on the ground expenses, a 2-week trip would approach $10k
You can spend a lot less for similar duration in other places, but it won't have that Hawaiian weather when it's winter in the US.

Well I don't know about FL or other parts of the Caribbean.

It's obvious that the Covid lockdowns in Hawaii have been really tough on tourism. But they appear to be trying to make up for lost income with the current prices of travel there. Many other places are the same.

Many could go to Florida or Puerto Rico for a winter vacation substitute and save some money. But I used to work in Florida 5 weeks a year, and we have no desire to take vacations there.

But since we quit snow skiing (Lake Tahoe) due to age, we no longer take winter vacations. We save our money and most often head for Europe in April/May and again in the Fall. Budapest and Spain are remarkably inexpensive on rooms and travel. And the repositioning cruises ending in Europe also are great bargains.

 

[World Traveler]

I've been looking at a HA trip early in the year.

We go to Hi usually once a year. We went in Apr to Maui and Kauai. Pain in the butt was the constantly moving COVID target. I think it has gotten easier. We lucked out on cars due to BIL had Hertz discounts. https://hawaiicovid19.com for Hawaii Updates I get the emails from them which keeps me uo to date on policies.

 

[explanade]

I've been looking at a HA trip early in the year.

We go to Hi usually once a year. We went in Apr to Maui and Kauai. Pain in the butt was the constantly moving COVID target. I think it has gotten easier. We lucked out on cars due to BIL had Hertz discounts. https://hawaiicovid19.com for Hawaii Updates I get the emails from them which keeps me uo to date on policies.

I think demand exploded, partly because the places Americans could travel to was limited or there was uncertainty in the spring about where we could go.

Over the summer domestic travel was big, as was travel to Mexico and the Caribbean.

Then Europe confirmed American tourists could visit in May or early June.

I actually tracked some flights and hotels to Hawaii for May and early June. Waited probably too long and prices really took off.

But then with the news of Europe opening up, I switched to Europe.

 

[clifp]

I've been looking at a HA trip early in the year.


Has anyone been to HA in the past 6 months or even the past year?

I've been living here, Honolulu, for the last 22 years. The good news is some prices are coming down. My friend who is cat-sitting for me, found a rental car for less than $50/day starting in Dec 6 which is peak season.

Governor Ige plea for tourists to stay home at the end of Aug did have his desired effect of driving up cancellations and reducing prices. Of course, folks in the hospitality business were ready to lynch the guy.

You all have accurately summarized the problem with traveling here, constantly changing Covid policies, and luxury prices, for middle class accommodations.

I wish I could say it will get better next year. The fact is the government, and many local residents seem to have this delusion that we can decrease the total number of tourists, about 10 million/year pre Covid for an average stay of about 8 day, and make up for the lost revenue by raising prices.

Now this might work, if there was real effort to upgrade accommodations, make sure our beach bathrooms were clean, and do the type of upgrades that Las Vegas routinely does, but that's not what going on.

There are still capacity restrictions at restaurants, and other venues although they should be easing starting Dec. 1. However, some capacity restriction are going to remain in place.

For instance, I was volunteer for many years at Hanaumua Bay, Oahu's most popular snorkeling place. 25 year ago that had no restriction and well over 1 million people visit it. Now, it was too crowded for much of the summer and the crowds were damaging the reef. When I started volunteering capacity restriction was about 2000-2500/day and closed Tuesday. But even at 2,000 people, it wasn't as crowded as most southern California beaches in the summer. It was closed for most of 2020. It is now reopened ticket prices have gone up from $5-$7.50 to $25. You need to make a reservation, and only 1000 tickets will be sold, and it's closed Monday and Tuesday. So instead of a million folks being able to see the place a year, we are now down to 250,000.

It is an even nicer place to snorkel but requires a lot more money and time.

Honestly, folks on the forum are absolutely the folks we want to come, older , more affluent, interested in going to place like the Bishop Museum, and not just drink beer and harass sea turtles. Unfortunately, the set of folks smart enough to be desirable, and stupid enough not to comparison shop and look at other places with nice beaches, warm weather, and an interesting cultures is quite small IMO.

 

[clifp]

I've been looking at a HA trip early in the year.


Has anyone been to HA in the past 6 months or even the past year?

I've been living here, Honolulu, for the last 22 years. The good news is some prices are coming down. My friend who is cat-sitting for me, found a rental car for less than $50/day starting in Dec 6 which is peak season.

Governor Ige plea for tourists to stay home at the end of Aug did have his desired effect of driving up cancellations and reducing prices. Of course, folks in the hospitality business were ready to lynch the guy.

You all have accurately summarized the problem with traveling here, constantly changing Covid policies, and luxury prices, for middle class accommodations.

I wish I could say it will get better next year. The fact is the government, and many local residents seem to have this delusion that we can decrease the total number of tourists, about 10 million/year pre Covid for an average stay of about 8 day, and make up for the lost revenue by raising prices.

Now this might work, if there was real effort to upgrade accommodations, make sure our beach bathrooms were clean, and do the type of upgrades that Las Vegas routinely does, but that's not what going on.

There are still capacity restrictions at restaurants, and other venues although they should be easing starting Dec. 1. However, some capacity restriction are going to remain in place.

For instance, I was volunteer for many years at Hanaumua Bay, Oahu's most popular snorkeling place. 25 year ago that had no restriction and well over 1 million people visit it. Now, it was too crowded for much of the summer and the crowds were damaging the reef. When I started volunteering capacity restrictions were put in place, about 2000-2500/day and closed Tuesday. But even at 2,000 people, it wasn't as crowded as most southern California beaches in the summer. It was closed for most of 2020. It is now reopened ticket prices have gone up from $5-$7.50 to $25. You need to make a reservation, and only 1000 tickets will be sold, and it's closed Monday and Tuesday. So instead of a million folks being able to see the place a year, we are now down to 250,000.

It is an even nicer place to snorkel but requires a lot more money and time.

Honestly, folks on the forum are absolutely the folks we want to come, older, more affluent, interested in going to place like the Bishop Museum, and not just drink beer and harass sea turtles. Unfortunately, the set of folks smart enough to be desirable, and stupid enough not to comparison shop and look at other places with nice beaches, warm weather, and interesting cultures is quite small IMO.

 

[2017ish]

Well, we did extensive traveling in 2021, Mexico, HI and 15 states. I contracted COVID when I got home and I was vaccinated. We intend to do a lot of traveling next year too.

We didn't get it in 2021 either domestically or in Turkey, Jordan, Egypt (including week on dive boat), Iceland, Spain or Portugal--and so far have avoided it at home. (Same with our months traveling in 2020).

2022, in addition to domestic travel, we have a couple weeks diving Cozumel beginning 1/1, 6 weeks in Colombia for Jan-March, and Oct-Dec for Easter island, 3 week Antarctica cruise, and long Patagonia driving/hiking trip. Still waiting to see what looks good for the middle of the year....

 

[World Traveler]

We didn't get it in 2021 either domestically or in Turkey, Jordan, Egypt (including week on dive boat), Iceland, Spain or Portugal--and so far have avoided it at home. (Same with our months traveling in 2020).

2022, in addition to domestic travel, we have a couple weeks diving Cozumel beginning 1/1, 6 weeks in Colombia for Jan-March, and Oct-Dec for Easter island, 3 week Antarctica cruise, and long Patagonia driving/hiking trip. Still waiting to see what looks good for the middle of the year....

We are not going to let COVID slow us down either if we can help it.

 

[clifp]

We are not going to let COVID slow us down either if we can help it.

Good for you guys. Personally, I'm willing to take some risks now that I've been fully vaccinated, but really really don't want to get Covid on an overseas trip.

I can easily envision nightmares in get insurance coverage, and even getting back into the country.

 

[2017ish]

Our thoughts have been (and are) that we have an indeterminate number of adventure travel years left. Weighing that against the actual risk of covid and the ability to travel internationally without crowds made our decision for us. (Seeing no other tourists in Petra for over an hour, and having only one other tour group in the valley of the kings was amazing).

 

[World Traveler]

Our thoughts have been (and are) that we have an indeterminate number of adventure travel years left. Weighing that against the actual risk of covid and the ability to travel internationally without crowds made our decision for us. (Seeing no other tourists in Petra for over an hour, and having only one other tour group in the valley of the kings was amazing).

Risks vs rewards. I’m with you, Individual choices. Safe travels.

 

[Chuckanut]

After a decade of focusing mainly in international travel, I have used the Covid mess to ramp up some road trips travels that have been on my list but never got done.

Armed with a new Hybrid auto that gets good mileage, I have taken three tips this year and plan another two next year. Maybe more.

I do want to return to Europe, but have decided I will do that almost on a whim. Yes, it will be a bit more expensive, but I really am not excited about traveling long distances only to have to wear a mask, get tested etc. I noticed Paris now requires mask outside if one is in a group. The Brits now require a Covid test within two days after arrival. So one could fly there, have a positive test result and then have to quarantine for 10 days. Not my idea of fun.

As long as there are places in the good old USA and our Neighbor To The North, I can see, that will be good for now.

 

[tulak]

I’m heading to Europe in May. Going to Finland for international hockey and then south to visit family. Debating if I should go south through the Baltic countries or Copenhagen/Germany, and maybe Sweden. Including Sweden might involve too much time, so thinking we’d fly from Finland to Copenhagen if we go that route.

I’m fully vaccinated and willing to deal with some travel inconvenience. I am making sure that everything is refundable or at least can get a credit in case of cancellation.

 

[1242Vintage]

Headed from the Republic of CA to Cleveland, Ohio early January for a long weekend with daughter. She has to work over the holidays and can’t come to the West Coast so will trek to Cleveland to see her. Just picked up tix to see Browns play Bengals on that Sunday. Fun!!!

And working to arrange a trip to a warm weather destination in February. Mom lives up higher in the mountains and would be good to get her out of the snow for a week. Choice is either Cancun or Hawaii.

 

[Sojourner]

Personally, I'm willing to take some risks now that I've been fully vaccinated, but really really don't want to get Covid on an overseas trip.

I can easily envision nightmares in get insurance coverage, and even getting back into the country.

+1

It's still early days with omicron, but if it does turn out to be much more infectious than delta but less pathogenic (as some early indications suggest), the biggest problem with international travel will be the risk of getting stuck overseas. Even those of us who are triple vax'd will be quite susceptible to a breakthrough infection via omicron, which would likely lead to mild illness but would keep us from getting back to the U.S. for many days. Not the end of the world, but IMHO, one more reason why I plan to avoid international travel (for the most part) until COVID testing is no longer a requirement for re-entry.

 

[Drake3287]

+1

It's still early days with omicron, but if it does turn out to be much more infectious than delta but less pathogenic (as some early indications suggest), the biggest problem with international travel will be the risk of getting stuck overseas. Even those of us who are triple vax'd will be quite susceptible to a breakthrough infection via omicron, which would likely lead to mild illness but would keep us from getting back to the U.S. for many days. Not the end of the world, but IMHO, one more reason why I plan to avoid international travel (for the most part) until COVID testing is no longer a requirement for re-entry.

Completely agree with your post. We have our 3rd try at going to Switzerland in May of next year but at this point I'm sure it'll get canceled again, just because of the testing rules.

Not to get political around here but nothing's going to change for the next 3 years and at the same time, most of us here are at retirement age and with limited years left for meaningful travel. Why unvaccinated people can fly all day long in the US without being vaccinated or tested is beyond me.

Why is Biden afraid to require a vaccine requirement for domestic travel? 99% of the anti-vaccine people would never vote for him anyway but at the same time scores of covid positive passengers are flying around the US everyday.

 

[target2019]

I'm thinking more and more about a 1-week trip after I get my 4th shot next year. Something like a drive through the historical sites of my Pennsylvania ancestors. That will include Lancaster and York counties. May visit the Martin Guitar Factory in Northampton County too. May 2022.

 

[explanade]

+1

It's still early days with omicron, but if it does turn out to be much more infectious than delta but less pathogenic (as some early indications suggest), the biggest problem with international travel will be the risk of getting stuck overseas. Even those of us who are triple vax'd will be quite susceptible to a breakthrough infection via omicron, which would likely lead to mild illness but would keep us from getting back to the U.S. for many days. Not the end of the world, but IMHO, one more reason why I plan to avoid international travel (for the most part) until COVID testing is no longer a requirement for re-entry.

I'm thinking more and more about a 1-week trip after I get my 4th shot next year. Something like a drive through the historical sites of my Pennsylvania ancestors. That will include Lancaster and York counties. May visit the Martin Guitar Factory in Northampton County too. May 2022.

I'm looking at various travel options, some good business fares to Europe are out there.

But yeah this uncertainty over Omicron is what makes me hold off. I know you can get credit for flights you book but that's a hassle to deal with. I dealt with it this summer using up the credits I had from 2020.


Report from yesterday say boosters help vs. Omicron but it sounds like they may put out Omicron-specific vaccine by the spring.

Some places are seeing the worst hospitalization and death numbers in the pandemic, despite some portion of the population vaccinated and it's mostly Delta winter wave.


I heard of one account on Reddit, someone from UK who went to Thailand, tested positive but asymptomatic and he has to be in hospital for 10 days at least. It's costing about $7500 and he's been assured by his insurer that he will be reimbursed.

I've heard another account of Americans in Greece testing positive before their return and they were put up for quarantine and they didn't have to pay anything. Well having to change flights could cost them.

So the situation is not that much improved, though I traveled overseas 3 times this summer and didn't really think too much about the possibility of testing positive and having the planned schedule disrupted.

And I was in some places which had high rate of spread at the time and also in crowded situations like a cable car for over 30 minutes that was packed shoulder to shoulder.

That was in September but maybe Delta hadn't fully hit yet in Europe. At least everyone masked so that probably reduced odds of a spreader event.

So I'll likely travel again if countries don't close up, because as mentioned, I don't want to squander any more time.

Because chances are, these testing and quarantine regimes for international travel will be in place for few more years.

Many have predicted an end to the pandemic, going into endemic phase real soon now. But that was before Omicron and I'm not reassured by early reports that Omicron has only been mild so far.

 

[Sunset]

....
Many have predicted an end to the pandemic, going into endemic phase real soon now. But that was before Omicron and I'm not reassured by early reports that Omicron has only been mild so far.

I think a lot of folks are tired of all this stuff and were wishing it would be endemic as a bright light at the end of the tunnel...

Even though everyone is talking about Omicron , it's Delta that is the real workhorse of hospitalization and death right now. So nothing much has changed.

 

[Freedom56]

We just flew back from Switzerland yesterday via Paris CDG. Personally if it wasn't for family matters, I would not travel international right now. There are just too many rules and restrictions no matter where you visit that are made worse by people who don't bother to follow them. This was the second international trip I made during the past two months. The first one was to Canada in late October into early November. Neither of these trips were planned in advanced. The rules and restrictions are constantly changing. We found ourselves scrambling for a 1 day pre-flight test versus the prior 3 day test this past week. Last week many EU and other nations imposed PCR testing and quarantine requirements. I would spend money on domestic travel until this pandemic is in better control around the world.

 

[iloveyoga]

I have mentioned that I am going to Anna Marie Island in Florida in January and I am in Orlando now doing Disney with my son and his family. It really helps to get through the Iowa winters.

 

[target2019]

I'm looking at various travel options, some good business fares to Europe are out there.

But yeah this uncertainty over Omicron is what makes me hold off. I know you can get credit for flights you book but that's a hassle to deal with. I dealt with it this summer using up the credits I had from 2020.

Report from yesterday say boosters help vs. Omicron but it sounds like they may put out Omicron-specific vaccine by the spring.

Some places are seeing the worst hospitalization and death numbers in the pandemic, despite some portion of the population vaccinated and it's mostly Delta winter wave.

I heard of one account on Reddit, someone from UK who went to Thailand, tested positive but asymptomatic and he has to be in hospital for 10 days at least. It's costing about $7500 and he's been assured by his insurer that he will be reimbursed.

I've heard another account of Americans in Greece testing positive before their return and they were put up for quarantine and they didn't have to pay anything. Well having to change flights could cost them.

So the situation is not that much improved, though I traveled overseas 3 times this summer and didn't really think too much about the possibility of testing positive and having the planned schedule disrupted.

And I was in some places which had high rate of spread at the time and also in crowded situations like a cable car for over 30 minutes that was packed shoulder to shoulder.

That was in September but maybe Delta hadn't fully hit yet in Europe. At least everyone masked so that probably reduced odds of a spreader event.

So I'll likely travel again if countries don't close up, because as mentioned, I don't want to squander any more time.

Because chances are, these testing and quarantine regimes for international travel will be in place for few more years.

Many have predicted an end to the pandemic, going into endemic phase real soon now. But that was before Omicron and I'm not reassured by early reports that Omicron has only been mild so far.

I'm not really holding off on anything. We went to Germany for 3 weeks in October. I have no concerns about Covid as I'm up-to-date and wear a mask just about everywhere. In some countries (Germany) they enforce the guidlelines, so the specific country is important. I've done what I can and feel confident. My shelf life is shorter now, so I need to get things done.

But I think you need a good reason for yourself to travel now. Before there was no caution and we did what we wanted. I have specific reasons to go to Lancaster, so it isn't really driven by not wanting to go out-of-country. What has always scared me is in-country flights.

 

[Sunset]

We just flew back from Switzerland yesterday via Paris CDG. Personally if it wasn't for family matters, I would not travel international right now. There are just too many rules and restrictions no matter where you visit that are made worse by people who don't bother to follow them. This was the second international trip I made during the past two months. The first one was to Canada in late October into early November. Neither of these trips were planned in advanced. The rules and restrictions are constantly changing. We found ourselves scrambling for a 1 day pre-flight test versus the prior 3 day test this past week. Last week many EU and other nations imposed PCR testing and quarantine requirements. I would spend money on domestic travel until this pandemic is in better control around the world.

Good to hear, I was wondering about the changes and how it was going to affect your return.

 

[Chuckanut]

I do think that the WSJ article (Middle Seat) was right when it said that the travel industry needs to back off the 'No refund' attitude which is starting to creep back into the travel reservation rules. They need to start realizing that people will be more willing to travel if they know they won't get financially hammered if Covid raises its ugly head at the time they plan to travel. At the very least the risk needs to be shared by between the traveler and the travel industry.

Covid can cause enough travel headaches even for the best prepared traveler. Adding the No Refund mentality to that is just discouraging. My old grand pappy used to advise me to "make it easy for people to be nice to you". The travel business needs to maker it easier to be comfortable planning travel.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-omicron-travel-restrictions-quarantines-11638910449

Mr. Sorensen issued a report last week to travel-industry clients suggesting that airlines, hotels and others are going to have to bear more risk of disruption if they want people to keep traveling. Change-fee penalties and nonrefundable reservations got temporary waivers during the pandemic, but they have already started creeping back in, making the consumer largely responsible for losses from unexpected disruptions.
Instead, he thinks travel companies are going to have to bear more risk to entice travelers, either by making reservations refundable or by providing insurance that will accommodate health risks and fears at airline expense.
“If there’s a whole lot of pain and effort required to get there, why do I want to go there?” Mr. Sorensen says.

I've still have an overseas trip scheduled for early Fall. I was considering canceling, but the tour operator has changed the rules and I now have until late Spring to get my deposit back rather than the end of this year.

Some reasonable refund policies on the part of the travel industry, combined with Cancel for Any Reason insurance, might help keep people traveling.

 

[51notout]

I recently booked a villa in Greece for May next year for my extended family. I used VRBO to book as I could choose those properties offering 100% refund up to 14 days before the reservation. AirBNB properties had no refund after the day you booked it as far as I could tell. No way would I use that service for that reason alone.

Currently on a Caribbean cruise with Celebrity. They offer cancellation up to 48 hours prior to sailing for a future cruise credit. Not ideal but fine for me since we will continue to cruise. It’s also a 100% vaxxed cruise…. Another necessary factor for me. (I know it’s not a guarantee of no infections).

I recently bought annual travel insurance for the first time at the suggestion of posters on er.org, from Allianz, and it does cover interruptions because of pandemics (as well as other travel delays etc). It’s not cancel for any reason though. But if you’re careful what you book it might be enough.

Other than booking rental houses a couple of times we hadn’t traveled until October. I feel much more comfortable going further afield now because we are “boosted” and available refund policies, plus we are not getting any younger [emoji57]

As the linked WSJ article above suggests, companies should continue to offer easier travel adjustments to travelers. I don’t think I would be so keen to book without that facility.

 

[JoeWras]

I do think that the WSJ article (Middle Seat) was right when it said that the travel industry needs to back off the 'No refund' attitude which is starting to creep back into the travel reservation rules.

Yes.

We won't be traveling internationally in 2022.

I still have a very sour taste in my mouth after the fiasco of booking a trip for summer 2020. The operators of the tour were brutally legalistic using the conditions of their 3 pages of size 4 font "terms and conditions" page. In the end, we lost 25% of the tour cost, and they were trying to tell us how lucky we were since they eased the rules a bit. Oh, and the travel insurance they suggested was useless too. It had all the same exclusions. (I already spoke at length about this in previous threads.)

This operator got raked over the coals in social media and on BBB. Then just a few months ago, they send us a note that they'll be happy to book us for 2022 and apply the 25% we lost, if we only now pay another 25% as a downpayment for a summer 2022 tour, with full payment required by Feb 15.

Uh no. They can take a hike to Mont Blanc and jump off.