College Costs, why?

[explanade]

A recent trend is more and more young women going to college relative to their male counterparts.

Some men may still become successful without going to college. Maybe in one of the trades.

But would white collar college educated women want to date or marry men who don’t have college education, even if they’re doing well financially as a mechanic or plumber?

A lot of employers do lazy vetting of job candidates, looking only at people who went to certain schools.

Maybe college or no college becomes a version of that in the dating pool.

 

[target2019]

I agree and would go further to say that having a 4 year degree is one signal within the American caste system. If we’re truthful, establishing one’s place in the social hierarchy is far more powerful than any government policy. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong or that it always was or always will be thus, just observing what is in this era.

I'm not sure whether or not we have a caste system, but your point is interesting. I see a college degree (2- or 4-year) as a differentiator for the worker.

One personal case from my childhood (1960-70) was the father of a friend. At that time he was known as a carpenter. But he also finished a 4-year degree at Penn State in engineering. The local work he did progressed to complicated remodel jobs. He was interested in all aspects of his business, and the degree gave him what he needed to run a successful business.

Recently a young employee of a mechanical company came to fix our HVAC. It turned out to be a simple job. Still, I was impressed by how he presented himself. He was pround of engineering courses he had taken, and I could tell he would finish a degree and continue to climb the ladder, so to speak.

As my older brother would say, this person has the complete package. Continuing education is part of that, I feel.

 

[athena53]

Maybe college or no college becomes a version of that in the dating pool.

I'm 70 and not in the dating pool but I hope that wouldn't be an issue. I'd jump at a smart guy who's doing well financially in a job that can't be outsourced or offshored. Bonus: he's likely to be great at fixing things around the house. I've met (and dated) plenty of guys who have a degree but would not have made good husbands.

 

[explanade]

I'm 70 and not in the dating pool but I hope that wouldn't be an issue. I'd jump at a smart guy who's doing well financially in a job that can't be outsourced or offshored. Bonus: he's likely to be great at fixing things around the house. I've met (and dated) plenty of guys who have a degree but would not have made good husbands.

Maybe not consciously do it but a lot of couples meet in college or their social circle consists of friends from college and they may meet potential partners through these mutual friends.

Or they may be more drawn to people who've gone through similar experiences such as co-workers who'd have comparable educational backgrounds.

Or it could be outright prejudice, looking down on those less educated.

The reason more girls are going to college relative to boys is that they excel academically while the boys don't -- many see no reason to continue their education.

So there's already this divergence even before they enter college, in outlook, goals, interests.

It's also not a new trend, women overlooking or considering men who don't seem ambitious or at least have some clear ideas about what they want to do in life.

 

[JoeWras]

Maybe not consciously do it but a lot of couples meet in college or their social circle consists of friends from college and they may meet potential partners through these mutual friends.

I'm quoting history here, and not endorsing this language:

Back in the 70s and 80s, it was common to say: "She's getting an MRS degree."

Now, maybe I went to an institution that was way too competitive (ranked 3rd in the country in engineering), but I honestly did not meet a girl who seemed to have the goal in mind. If anything, they were there to kick my ass. This was early 80s.

The phrase seemed to be a holdover from the 50s and 60s.

 

[athena53]

It's also not a new trend, women overlooking or considering men who don't seem ambitious or at least have some clear ideas about what they want to do in life.

Oh, believe me, I get that! My Ex had a Chemistry degree but was unemployed (excuse me, "starting a business") the last 5 years of the marriage. He just couldn't find an employer that appreciated his genius and paid him what he believed he was worth.

I look at being female and the primary wage earner to be freeing in a way- you don't have to look for the guy with the biggest income when there are so many other important characteristics. My sister the doctor just celebrated her 48th wedding anniversary with my BIL, who never finished college. He worked 2 and 3 jobs to support them when she started Med school at age 30 with 3 small children. He's smart, has a ton of common sense, can fix anything and he's a great guy. My late second husband was also a true partner- didn't bring much $$ into the marriage but we had 13 good years together before he died in 2016. No degree- the family had to use the money they'd put away for his college to pay for his mother's gall bladder surgery (late 1950s/early 1960s) and he had to quit when he got burned out trying to work nights and go to school during the day.

But, as you noted, you do have to look out for guys who want to help you spend your money but don't bring much else to the relationship, regardless of academic achievement or occupation.

 

[RunningBum]

The meme only highlights the issue that college education is more expensive today that yesteryear, regardless of how one quibbles about the numbers in the meme.

The meme chose to use minimum wage as the sole comparison to tuition, so I don't see an issue with calling out how invalid that is.

But if I'm going to be accused of quibbling, I'm going all in.

1980 annual tuition: $5,062
2016 annual tuition: $49,062

1980 lump sum investment in the S&P 500: $5,062
2016 value of that lump sum investment: $275,637

 

[JoeWras]

The meme chose to use minimum wage as the sole comparison to tuition, so I don't see an issue with calling out how invalid that is.

But if I'm going to be accused of quibbling, I'm going all in.

1980 annual tuition: $5,062
2016 annual tuition: $49,062

1980 lump sum investment in the S&P 500: $5,062
2016 value of that lump sum investment: $275,637

Great insight.

 

[MichealKnight]

I won't be more descriptive. But if you look at *who* controls campuses - ie the administrators, presidents, faculties, etc..... they are usually in the same cool-kid club with the entities you called on to hold them accountable.

Also, the paradigm and culture - where what used to be a luxury - is now an everyday thing. Food courts, Sushi, Organic, Steaks, "fraaaash" food, nice swimming pools, workout areas, wellness, and on and on and on - that stuff costs money. Someone is making the profit......those facilitating said profit, ahem, no way they are getting a cut of it (sarcasm), and the Lambs are told that college is their way into Club 401K Professional-Ville, so they take out the loans and pay.

Of course, these bastions of fairness and inclusion and diversity.....start out in some cases by having students "pledge" to groups that might reject them....and groups they have to pay hefty fees to.

And the band plays on.

As a parent who hopes to pay for DD's college in 3 years - I don't see what I can do about it.

As someone who retired in my 40's thanks to American Consumers......the only plus is that these young people are indoctrinated into thinking these amenities are the norm....therefore they will pay. Pay for the stuff, pay the interest, the fees, the late fees, etc all their lives.

Which hopefully means my dividend and rental income continues to get paid.

One can hope.

 

[JoeWras]

MichealKnight's view is kind of depressing, but unfortunately resonates with me.

In my first years after working (in the 80s), I gave to my University. By the early 90s, I realized I was giving to some sort of power complex that cried a river of tears about not having enough money, but the reality is it was all about power. My giving $$s gave them power.

I was done. Have not donated to a college in over 30 years. There are better organizations to give to.

 

[eytonxav]

The meme chose to use minimum wage as the sole comparison to tuition, so I don't see an issue with calling out how invalid that is.

But if I'm going to be accused of quibbling, I'm going all in.

1980 annual tuition: $5,062
2016 annual tuition: $49,062

1980 lump sum investment in the S&P 500: $5,062
2016 value of that lump sum investment: $275,637

Good example to illustrate knowledge that every ERF member should know, you need to be in the market to beat inflation. A better metric might have been if the MEME used gov't inflation data,https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=5,062.00&year1=198001&year2=202301, but nevertheless, the point being made is college is less affordable now vs then.

 

[NoEZmoney]

Tuition costs in wife's home state had soared from 2010 to 2016 thanks to state budget cuts to education (and healthcare) as those were the two biggest areas that the state constitution allowed for cuts without legislative approvals. These cuts were made by the governor at the time who had pledged to cut costs and "not raise taxes", something a lot of people liked to hear but it rendered devastating effects on higher ed and healthcare. The cuts actually became considered shifting any higher ed tax increase to tuition increases and students got hosed.

Tuition per semester hour more than doubled and tripled in some cases at some institutions and it has pretty much stayed that way. Now our state has a program that helps eligible students pay tuition but it had been drastically underfunded so a lot of enrollment dropped, forcing many colleges and universities to cut programs, creating an initiative for students to leave the state for more solid programs in nearby Texas.

So yeah, higher ed is pretty expensive. But thanks to multiple year's of budget surpluses the past several years, tuition programs for eligible students have been beefed up, and the state lawmakers have shown more willingness to spend money on deferred maintenance considering about 70% of state-owned buildings are on school campuses.

 

[anothercog]

Where are these schools with AC in the dorms? None of the schools we visited with my son had AC in the dorms except for common areas. Even the private school in a hit part of SoCal that was $80k/year didn’t have it. Fortunately my son did not get in there and will be attending UC Santa Barbara in the fall.

In state tuition is not too bad at around $15k/year. It’s the room and board that is pricey, even for a triple room that was only built to be a double.

Hopefully he will be an RA after his first year and then room and board will be free. Also, just found out he was awarded a private scholarship that he had applied to. However we unclear how much he’s going to get.

They said it’s up to $10k/year for 4 years up to his “need” determined by the school. Unfortunately FAFSA says I can supposedly afford to pay 125% of my take home pay per year towards his education. No aid was offered other than unsubsidized loans.

We’ll just need to wait and see if he actually gets anything. It was supposedly one of the few listed that wasn’t a need based scholarship so not sure what is happening.

I’ve got two more kids right behind him so it would be great to offset some of those costs.

 

[Navigator]

I just watched a lecture by an economist on higher education. His main point was that even with soaring college costs, getting a degree is still the single best investment a young person can make. People with college degrees on average make more than 70% more than those with just a high school diploma. Interestingly, this holds for jobs that you wouldn’t normally think required a degree. For example, hairdressers who graduated from college earn 78% more than those who didn’t. The value of a degree also seems to be increasing as the world grows increasingly complex.

 

[Ger0n1mo]

John Stossel had several segments about the rising cost of tuition. His perspective is that the federal government pouring more and more money into universities allowed them to go on a spending spree. Here is one of Stossel's videos:

 

[ddoorn]

Is Higher Education Pricing Itself Out of Business?

Increasingly I’m hearing from younger folks deciding on careers that do not require a college education.

I advise them to go for work that can’t be outsourced to other countries such as hands-on skills and trades.

Or if they go to college choose an education that can lead to high paying jobs that can pay off their education, such as in the medical or STEMS fields.

There is almost nothing outside the above that justifies the expense of a college education.

 

[indiajust]

Blank checks, no default risk, no performance measures. If you had customers like that, what would happen to you?

 

[1242Vintage]

All three of our kids are in STEM fields. We paid for all higher education costs of first two. And with rising education cost it was extremely painful$. And some of the costs were laughable. For example University of California insisted that my son purchase their expensive health care even though he was fully covered under my insurance. It was $1,800 per quarter!

Kid three is disabled and our State Disability program paid for both undergrad and grad school. She’s now an ICU nurse.

Quite frankly the State Disability program stepping in and picking up cost for third kids undergrad and grad school education was a god send. All in my estimate of cost to get her through six years of school was around 1/2 million.

 

[Artiscara]

I received SSi for college because my father died young. $128.00/mo I had to work 32 hours a week but I graduated from a top school. I learned things like how to balance a checkbook, how to deal with people that I would not choose as friends but were roommates. I learned more from the social experience than the scholastic. 1975 - 1979 - Cal Poly SLO - so great! Those were the days, cheap college, good times, and lots of growing up!

 

[gutterman]

It's supply and demand. Until college class rooms start emptying out the prices will continue to go up. As far as the nice campuses the college has to spend all that extra money somewhere.
I don't like it either, but it's the way our system works. And for most businesses it works well. The government does not set prices for goods and services. If you want to start a business and charge high prices you can. A thing called the market is your only worry. When no one buys your product you adapt or go out of business.

The government has distorted the college market by offering student loans on a vast scale. If they scaled that down, college costs would probably drop significantly.

 

[CardsFan]

It's supply and demand. Until college class rooms start emptying out the prices will continue to go up. As far as the nice campuses the college has to spend all that extra money somewhere.
I don't like it either, but it's the way our system works. And for most businesses it works well. The government does not set prices for goods and services. If you want to start a business and charge high prices you can. A thing called the market is your only worry. When no one buys your product you adapt or go out of business.

The government has distorted the college market by offering student loans on a vast scale. If they scaled that down, college costs would probably drop significantly.

I think the two bolded comments above explain it all. The government does not SET college costs, but they impact it with easy to get (but not always easy to pay, depending on your degree) student loans.

 

[timbervest]

Interesting. I attended the University of California Berkeley (Go Bears!) 1972-1976. My tuition was $625/quarter or $1875/year (this is tuition only -- not including other fees and dorms). Inflation adjusted this is $13,588 in 2023. The equivalent annual in-state tuition today at Cal is $15,444 so attending public university in California (and arguably one of the best in the country) . . . not so bad (if you can get in).

Not sure those attending Stanford ($61,700) are getting their money's worth

 

[OldShooter]

I think the two bolded comments above explain it all. The government does not SET college costs, but they impact it with easy to get (but not always easy to pay, depending on your degree) student loans.

Yes. Government loans are gasoline poured on the higher education cost fire. Quantities are exacerbated by naïve borrowers who do not understand the personal impact of what they are signing.

 

[Time2]

You would think that students applying now, would be fully aware of the burden student loans have on college graduates. However, I'm sure there is a big open spot in their mind where they believe the government (taxpayers) will take care of that pesky payback problem. Who can blame them, you hear it on the news often enough.

 

[eytonxav]

Interesting. I attended the University of California Berkeley (Go Bears!) 1972-1976. My tuition was $625/quarter or $1875/year (this is tuition only -- not including other fees and dorms). Inflation adjusted this is $13,588 in 2023. The equivalent annual in-state tuition today at Cal is $15,444 so attending public university in California (and arguably one of the best in the country) . . . not so bad (if you can get in).

Not sure those attending Stanford ($61,700) are getting their money's worth

I suspect many state schools are like that, but when books, ancillary fees, and room and board are factored in, the cost escalation might be more significant. I attended a private college back in that same 72-76 timeframe, Rensselaer Poly, and tuition was ~ $3500/yr, and now it is over $58K, so is it fair to say that demand is higher at private schools or is the greed motive greater? Its also worth noting the private schools are usually the ones with the largest endowments.