Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[ExFlyBoy5]

What an odd thread, like some others here. We all state our preferences (conclusions), without other readers knowing what the source poster wants in TV content (assumptions). It’s one misunderstanding after another after another...

• Someone who wants live sports won’t be able to live with on demand only.
• Someone who’s willing to cobble together a bunch of apps (e.g. Netflix, CBS, Hulu, etc.) has completely different expectations vs someone who can only accept a drop in cable/satellite replacement (e.g. Hulu Live, YTTV, etc.).
• The value proposition is very different for someone who would have internet with or without streaming vs someone who doesn’t need Internet regardless (no one here presumably).
• Those who are willing to deal with OTA, changing sources, TiVo other “recording” devices, other hardware in exchange for more savings or other features vs those who aren’t.
• Single viewer households vs larger family multi simultaneous viewer households.
• Basic fear of the unknown/inertia vs users who welcome/embrace change. Both fine.
• The streaming landscape changes rapidly and constantly, a benefit and a curse.
• And of course all of our different network preferences.

It’s no wonder this thread goes in circles for 135 pages.

Streaming TV can be just as easy as cable/satellite and still substantially cheaper. Or streaming can be a nightmare if you choose to make it so.

It's confusing to you (and others) because "cutting the cord" can't be a simple, one subject, discussion. This is very well illustrated just by your list...and consider how QUICKLY this is all changing. There is rarely going to be an all-for-one solution here, in a single thread that should probably be closed since it is so out of control now.

 

[steelyman]

Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV)

I got an email from Roku a couple of weeks ago
Dear Roku customer,
Thanks for being a longtime Roku streamer. We see that you own a classic Roku player that’s many generations behind our newest devices.

Thank you! This may be related to what happened or it could be Apple TV+ growing pains or... who knows what.

I don’t recall receiving an email like that from Roku. Looking through the links in your post it seems my “classic” Rokus: 2, 3, and a stick I got free with Sling are not yet old enough. I’ll just carry on and see what happens.

I much prefer going through Roku for streaming access rather than the smart TV apps. It seems smoother and the interface is consistent.

[ADDED] Fortunately, the Samsung “universal remote” for my TV operates the Roku just fine after I discovered the button press equivalents for various operations.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Thank you! This may be related to what happened or it could be Apple TV+ growing pains or... who knows what.

I don’t recall receiving an email like that from Roku. Looking through the links in your post it seems my “classic” Rokus: 2, 3, and a stick I got free with Sling are not yet old enough. I’ll just carry on and see what happens.

I much prefer going through Roku for streaming access rather than the smart TV apps. It seems smoother and the interface is consistent.

[ADDED] Fortunately, the Samsung “universal remote” for my TV operates the Roku just fine after I discovered the button press equivalents for various operations.

I agree. Turns out 4 of mine are now obsolete so although the Firestick is not as smooth, I have 2 unused ones that will replace the obsolete Rokus. The Firestick also has the Silk browser which works great with an overseas TV service that I subscribe to. $15 replacements for new Roku sticks is also a great deal for the other 2, one of which was also incredibly slow in opening the Locast app ( 5 minutes). It's time, I got about 7 years out of each one so no complaints

 

[Midpack]

It's confusing to you (and others) because "cutting the cord" can't be a simple, one subject, discussion. This is very well illustrated just by your list...and consider how QUICKLY this is all changing. There is rarely going to be an all-for-one solution here, in a single thread that should probably be closed since it is so out of control now.

My point was - this could be a more useful thread if folks would lay out some assumptions along with their praise, critiques and choices. As it is, we might was well discuss favorite colors with no bounds...

 

[bobandsherry]

Streaming TV can be just as easy as cable/satellite and still substantially cheaper. Or streaming can be a nightmare if you choose to make it so.

Agree with what you said until this closing point. Your comment fails to recognize that costs for cable may be substantially different. For me, I've found no options that would be "substantially cheaper" vs what I pay for cable.

So maybe just recognize that costs vary substantially by person and everyone needs to make their decision as to what cost/benefit is.

 

[Rustic23]

We are coming up on our second anniversary of YTTV. Complicated? Not for me, however, DW not so much. So I have given it some thought.

If all you want to do is turn it on, go to a channel and watch what is on, then nothing is as simple as cable, However, YTTV seems just about as good as Cable. Ok there is one other step, you have to select YTTV or HULU or what ever from your streaming box and then your channel/show. With cable it pops up with last channel watched.

However, Cable can be daunting also. We just seem to forget how we got started. If you have switched from Dish to Direct TV, then you had to learn new channels, a different guide, and don't even get started on the DVR and all the things to set up one time recording or whole series or skip commercials. Not to mention how to get all this onto you smart phone or tablet. But you see this does not seem complicated because we learned these steps as these features were introduced over the years and they seem intuitive to us now.

Streaming for us, at least, was like switching cable providers. However DW now says 'Alexa turn on tv' The TV, Amp, and Apple TV turn on. She pushed enter on the Inteset remote. and then select what she wants to watch. Is it more steps than the cable? YES! Has she mastered it? YES! Can she work the DVR? YES! Has she thrown me out of the house? NO! The point here, there was a learning curve, and not until she really tried it did she master it. Telling her how easy it was did not work.

Side note: I am now looking at Consumer Cellular to lower the phone bill. She was bucking this until I reminder her it would be no more difficult than dropping cable. He reaction was 'Oh, OK'.

Once over the resistance to change things work out.

Bottom line, YTTV - $50 a month Dish - $120 a month.

Notice I have not commented on Disney +, Netflix, or Amazon Prime. For me these are other streaming services you don't get with Cable, or satellite. (maybe you can and as they are not available here I just have not seen them)

 

[SoReady]

This may be another tangent, but I have a question to those that watch sports through YTTV.

I've had YTTV for a little over a month. When I watch football on my TV's that have Firestick the football game is jumpy, or jittery. It will play for about 5 seconds fine but then appear to jump or skip or jitter. Not sure how to explain it. Then it is fine for 5-10 seconds and happen again. Additionally, it only seems to happen during a close up of the action. If they are panned way back it seems fine.

On the 1 TCL Roku TV I have this does not happen!

So wondering if others are experiencing this. I have a suspicion that Firestick and YTTV aren't playing well together. Since one is Amazon and the other Google I'm not hopeful of a speedy resolution.

 

[Midpack]

Agree with what you said until this closing point. Your comment fails to recognize that costs for cable may be substantially different. For me, I've found no options that would be "substantially cheaper" vs what I pay for cable.

So maybe just recognize that costs vary substantially by person and everyone needs to make their decision as to what cost/benefit is.

Fair enough. I’ve never seen an example where drop in streaming apps weren’t significantly less than cable or satellite equivalents, and I believe that’s generally true. But obviously it’s not true in every market.

 

[JoeWras]

I have tried just about every streaming service out there for my mom (Sling, PSVue, DirectTVNow, Fubo, YouTubeTV, Hulu Live, etc.). Unfortunately, even though the cost would have been half what she pays for cable and has access to more stations she's interested in, she just can't adapt to the user interfaces. I recently signed her up for YouTubeTV, one of the easier ones to use, and she called me yesterday to cancel it and go back to cable. She doesn't like change and doesn't do well with new technology.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with all of the streaming services is that they try to do too much. You're forced into a confusing opening screen of what's playing, what's new, recommended for you, trending now, etc. What's live? What's on demand? What's free? What costs additional? Just trying to teach my mom how to access the channel guide was a major undertaking. Super simple for me, but utterly confusing for her.

They need to boot up to a simple channel listing (no guide, just show what's playing currently), and provide a way to surf from one channel to the next without flipping between different screens. As with most things these days, the designers over complicate what should be a simple thing. Choose a channel and watch TV. You know, the modern equivalent of the old dial TV channel changer. Remote control meant telling the kids to change the channel for you.

Clap, clap, clap. I tried to engage the discussion with this issue but was pretty much shot down by the streaming fanpeople. You more eloquently described my problems with streaming. It just isn't ready for everybody.

I call it "hotel mode." The services should have it. Just turn on the TV and hit up and down.

 

[JoeWras]

This may be another tangent, but I have a question to those that watch sports through YTTV.

I've had YTTV for a little over a month. When I watch football on my TV's that have Firestick the football game is jumpy, or jittery. It will play for about 5 seconds fine but then appear to jump or skip or jitter. Not sure how to explain it. Then it is fine for 5-10 seconds and happen again. Additionally, it only seems to happen during a close up of the action. If they are panned way back it seems fine.

On the 1 TCL Roku TV I have this does not happen!

So wondering if others are experiencing this. I have a suspicion that Firestick and YTTV aren't playing well together. Since one is Amazon and the other Google I'm not hopeful of a speedy resolution.

My plan is to go to YTTV for streaming eventually. Right now I'm currently on "cable" through Uverse. However, I do stream hockey some and I can confirm your issue.

I've tried streaming through the FoxSportsGo app on various interfaces. Roku and Chromestick are fine. My 3 1/2 yr old Firestick (maybe that's the problem) sucks with sports. I just don't think it has the horsepower.

Not sure about an more recent Firesticks. I simply don't plan on trying any now that I have Roku. Don't need the Firestink.

 

[SoReady]

You're right. I did notice it on hockey as well. I have various firesticks (Firestinks -Ha!) and one of them is a 4K, so relatively recent. I'll have to double check that particular one to see if it behaves any differently.

 

[explanade]

I just don't see prices dropping for the 'live' TV bundle streaming services, if anything prices will continue to go up, they have little to no control over their programming cost. They are all bleeding money as it is and there are only three main players left in the game. Intel, Apple, and Verizon all dropped plans for live bundle TV service, just no money in it. Will likely see more of the specialized streaming services like Netflex, Disney+, Apple+, etc.

The streaming services are all spending on original content.

The broadcast and cable networks may lose viewers over to these streaming channels more and more over time.

The only thing which may keep neighbors on these networks are live sports.

If one of the streaming companies get rights to NFL and NBA games, it will be game over.

 

[RunningBum]

This may be another tangent, but I have a question to those that watch sports through YTTV.

I've had YTTV for a little over a month. When I watch football on my TV's that have Firestick the football game is jumpy, or jittery. It will play for about 5 seconds fine but then appear to jump or skip or jitter. Not sure how to explain it. Then it is fine for 5-10 seconds and happen again. Additionally, it only seems to happen during a close up of the action. If they are panned way back it seems fine.

On the 1 TCL Roku TV I have this does not happen!

So wondering if others are experiencing this. I have a suspicion that Firestick and YTTV aren't playing well together. Since one is Amazon and the other Google I'm not hopeful of a speedy resolution.

I haven't noticed that on YTTV, and I use a Firestick. I have both old ones and new 4k firesticks. I'm very sensitive to this as I saw this on previous attempts to stream with other apps--I can't recall exactly which ones, probably like ESPN+ or maybe DishAnywhere.

My best way to describe it is that a football or hockey pass should look like:

_____________

but instead looks more like

- - - - - - - - - - -

If this is what you are seeing, it is probably the frame rate. 60 frames per second should look pretty smooth. 30 fps is jumpy.

If you hit the down part of the wheel on your remote while watching you see some options. One of them is to turn on "Nerd Stats". Do that, and see what you get for FPS, and also see if you are getting a lot of frame drops or other things that look like problems.

I have checked about every channel I could -- all of my locals, all ESPN channels, NBCSP, CBSSP, FS1, BTN, SECN, ACCN, and so on, and all looked fine and were confirmed to be 60 fps. I was not going to give up satellite if YTTV had the jumpiness problem.

It could be that you have a local station that is only doing 30 fps. Or it could be that you have an inconsistent internet, or maybe even wifi is bad to your TV. Put your laptop or phone by the TV and run a speed test.

 

[statsman]

I have tried just about every streaming service out there for my mom (Sling, PSVue, DirectTVNow, Fubo, YouTubeTV, Hulu Live, etc.). Unfortunately, even though the cost would have been half what she pays for cable and has access to more stations she's interested in, she just can't adapt to the user interfaces. I recently signed her up for YouTubeTV, one of the easier ones to use, and she called me yesterday to cancel it and go back to cable. She doesn't like change and doesn't do well with new technology.

That kind of describes my DW. She has a huge list of "must have" and "would like to have" channels that would require at least three streaming services to get her there (which would be costly) and replace our AT&T U-verse selection. She's a very intelligent person, but she has a short fuse when it comes to technology.

I keep following the topic because maybe it will get to the point where we can cut the cord and forget those yearly renewal battles I so loathe. But then I read about the streaming services raising their prices and some media providers, like Disney, going their separate ways. I can envision people having way more than a few streaming services to have to deal with in the near future if they want to cut the cord.

I truly do sympathize for those who can't, or know someone who can't, make the switch. It would be fairly easy just for me. I don't watch as much TV as my DW and probably most people. I could get away with one major streaming service, like Hulu or YTTV or fubo, or maybe Sling Blue with a few add-ons (or even their Total package add-on).

 

[bUU]

My point was - this could be a more useful thread if folks would lay out some assumptions along with their praise, critiques and choices. As it is, we might was well discuss favorite colors with no bounds...

I think that's actually the problem: Advocates for streaming are often those who have marginalized in their own minds the downside and therefore cannot acknowledge the downside when it is expressed. Instead, they presume the other poster needs instruction or correction rather than to have their assessment respected as the reality they experience because they don't overlook the downside.

 

[SoReady]

I haven't noticed that on YTTV, and I use a Firestick. I have both old ones and new 4k firesticks. I'm very sensitive to this as I saw this on previous attempts to stream with other apps--I can't recall exactly which ones, probably like ESPN+ or maybe DishAnywhere.

My best way to describe it is that a football or hockey pass should look like:

_____________

but instead looks more like

- - - - - - - - - - -

If this is what you are seeing, it is probably the frame rate. 60 frames per second should look pretty smooth. 30 fps is jumpy.

If you hit the down part of the wheel on your remote while watching you see some options. One of them is to turn on "Nerd Stats". Do that, and see what you get for FPS, and also see if you are getting a lot of frame drops or other things that look like problems.

I have checked about every channel I could -- all of my locals, all ESPN channels, NBCSP, CBSSP, FS1, BTN, SECN, ACCN, and so on, and all looked fine and were confirmed to be 60 fps. I was not going to give up satellite if YTTV had the jumpiness problem.

It could be that you have a local station that is only doing 30 fps. Or it could be that you have an inconsistent internet, or maybe even wifi is bad to your TV. Put your laptop or phone by the TV and run a speed test.

Thanks for this. The dotted lines is a good illustration of what I'm experiencing. I have looked at the Nerd Stats before but just focused on the drops which only indicated 0. I'll look closer tonight for the fps.

The main TV is probably 15 feet from the modem so the speed should be OK. I'll double check that as well.

All good info - Thanks!

 

[zinger1457]

Fair enough. I’ve never seen an example where drop in streaming apps weren’t significantly less than cable or satellite equivalents, and I believe that’s generally true. But obviously it’s not true in every market.

You seem to preach the cheaper streaming cost in most of your posts but it certainly isn't true for me either, been paying ~$60/mo for the last two years for DirecTV, 200+ channels and a nice DVR. I'm always looking for cheaper and better alternatives, just haven't found it yet.

 

[db79]

This may be another tangent, but I have a question to those that watch sports through YTTV.

I've had YTTV for a little over a month. When I watch football on my TV's that have Firestick the football game is jumpy, or jittery. It will play for about 5 seconds fine but then appear to jump or skip or jitter. Not sure how to explain it. Then it is fine for 5-10 seconds and happen again. Additionally, it only seems to happen during a close up of the action. If they are panned way back it seems fine.

On the 1 TCL Roku TV I have this does not happen!

So wondering if others are experiencing this. I have a suspicion that Firestick and YTTV aren't playing well together. Since one is Amazon and the other Google I'm not hopeful of a speedy resolution.

When I stream Thursday night NFL games via Amazon on either 4K Firestick or directly on the Amazon app on my TV the jumpiness and buffering is bad. I always end up watching the game on FOX via OTA HD antenna.

 

[bobandsherry]

Fair enough. I’ve never seen an example where drop in streaming apps weren’t significantly less than cable or satellite equivalents, and I believe that’s generally true. But obviously it’s not true in every market.

I don't know if I'm a unicorn then... Lol. But I pay $72/mo for my cable, basically all channels, over 300, doesn't have the movie channels such as HBO. I have mutli-room viewing and I can record up to 6 shows at same time or watch in multiple rooms. I have out of home streaming.

I used Suppose.TV to pull together options to configure a streaming package with channels and features I want and best I found was $69.99 with YTTV as primary provider and supplemented with Philo. So my savings would be a couple bucks a month.

One thing that is also a plus for cable. The internet in Community I live will occasionally go out, could be for several hours. When internet goes out I can still watch my TV and access my recordings.

So as you had said, everyone's circumstances can be different than another person and why there is no one best answer to this discussion.

 

[mountainsoft]

She has a huge list of "must have" and "would like to have" channels that would require at least three streaming services to get her there (which would be costly) and replace our AT&T U-verse selection.

Until we can truly choose which channels we want, cable and streaming services are equally horrible. It makes no sense to pay $125 for 200+ channels when I only watch five channels at most. And all of these services group channel packages in a way that you have to upgrade to the next package to get that one additional channel you're interested in. Streaming services are just as bad as cable in this regard.

I have seen a few networks offer individual streaming but that gets expensive if you want more than a few channels. It would still be preferable to the current "package" plans. Of course, most of the channels I'm interested in do not offer direct streaming outside of a package. Then there's the whole interface thing again, where every channel does something different.

In my ideal "never-gonna-happen" world, I would like to see "make your own package" kind of plans. Choose one channel for $10, any 10 channels for $30, any 20 channels for $50, etc. One service, one interface, one price, none of the stuff I'm not interested in, and none of those stupid promotional rates. I don't want to know what's trending, what's new, or what's recommended, I just want to choose a channel and watch TV.

Somehow the cable and streaming genius' upstairs can't figure out simplicity, so I don't give any of them my money. I record over the air TV, download videos from YouTube, and watch the occasional Netflix movie.

 

[SoReady]

When I stream Thursday night NFL games via Amazon on either 4K Firestick or directly on the Amazon app on my TV the jumpiness and buffering is bad. I always end up watching the game on FOX via OTA HD antenna.

So I just happened to be in Walmart browsing TV's as I'm in the market for a newer TV. When I went down the aisle that has Roku equipment I began looking at the products when a ROKU rep happened to be in the aisle! I explained my dilemma with watching sports via my current set up. Of course he is going to promote the Roku, but what I thought was interesting is he said that Firesticks use compression where Roku doesn't (or isn't as much?). Which is a reason he says you don't get the jitter issue with Roku. I need to investigate furthe on his statement, but I thought I'd share that here.

It could get costly to trade out all my Firesticks. I may just pick the TV I watch sports on the most and try that.

 

[RunningBum]

So I just happened to be in Walmart browsing TV's as I'm in the market for a newer TV. When I went down the aisle that has Roku equipment I began looking at the products when a ROKU rep happened to be in the aisle! I explained my dilemma with watching sports via my current set up. Of course he is going to promote the Roku, but what I thought was interesting is he said that Firesticks use compression where Roku doesn't (or isn't as much?). Which is a reason he says you don't get the jitter issue with Roku. I need to investigate furthe on his statement, but I thought I'd share that here.

It could get costly to trade out all my Firesticks. I may just pick the TV I watch sports on the most and try that.

I don't get how a Firestick would be using compression like that. The idea of compression is to reduce the bandwidth, so a streamer might send compressed video that the receiver would have to decompress, or maybe just play compressed (fewer frames per second, I guess). Why would a Firestick receive video, then compress it to put it on your TV? Am I dense or does that make no sense?

 

[JoeWras]

I don't get how a Firestick would be using compression like that. The idea of compression is to reduce the bandwidth, so a streamer might send compressed video that the receiver would have to decompress, or maybe just play compressed (fewer frames per second, I guess). Why would a Firestick receive video, then compress it to put it on your TV? Am I dense or does that make no sense?

Yeah, seems weird.

My Firestick has other issues (like even returning to the menu) that make me believe they just got cheap on hardware. I have a "prime day special." The device probably asks for a downgraded stream, i.e. less fps that it can handle with the weak hardware. That might be what the sales person was trying to say.

 

[bUU]

Until we can truly choose which channels we want, cable and streaming services are equally horrible.

"Equally horrible" makes it sound like you're choosing between two forms of execution. Both options offer you entertainment - i.e., something you enjoy. So they are "equally good". They may not be as good as you want, but this wholesale distortion of reality, seeing good as "horrible" because it isn't great, is a big part of the problem.

It makes no sense to pay $125 for 200+ channels when I only watch five channels at most.

Then don't. All that you have to consider is whether it is worthwhile to pay $125 for five channels. If not, then live without. That's what I'm doing now.

Streaming services are just as bad as cable in this regard.

No: They're just as good as cable at this sort of thing.

Somehow the cable and streaming genius' upstairs can't figure out simplicity, so I don't give any of them my money.

What you outlined isn't "simplicity" - it's sub-optimization of revenue potential.

 

[db79]

So I just happened to be in Walmart browsing TV's as I'm in the market for a newer TV. When I went down the aisle that has Roku equipment I began looking at the products when a ROKU rep happened to be in the aisle! I explained my dilemma with watching sports via my current set up. Of course he is going to promote the Roku, but what I thought was interesting is he said that Firesticks use compression where Roku doesn't (or isn't as much?). Which is a reason he says you don't get the jitter issue with Roku. I need to investigate furthe on his statement, but I thought I'd share that here.

It could get costly to trade out all my Firesticks. I may just pick the TV I watch sports on the most and try that.

At least in my case I don't think its a local hardware issue as I have the same experience whether using the Firestick or app on my TV. Strangely, I only have quality issue during the actual game play and not during commercials. My coworker streams Thursday night days via Firestick without any issue.