Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[bUU]

Someday someone will come up with a real alternative to cable and satellite tv. No I don't mean Netflix, or any of the other services. I am talking real choice. Like all the upper tier cable channels along with basic cable and movie channels included for $50.

Specifying the product and the pricing is a bit irrational: Prices are based on value, and so the only way all that would cost $50 in the long-term is if the value people perceive from that set of services declines to that level.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

Specifying the product and the pricing is a bit irrational: Prices are based on value, and so the only way all that would cost $50 in the long-term is if the value people perceive from that set of services declines to that level.

So be it. I hope it happens. Or more competitors appear in the market to force prices down.

 

[Carpediem]

I pre ordered their Stream+ If it lives up to the hype it would be a huge success.

This looks very interesting. It appears that the DVR is really just a micro SD card. What size card do you plan on using?

 

[bUU]

So be it. I hope it happens. Or more competitors appear in the market to force prices down.

There are already enough competitors for distribution of video entertainment. That effect is already baked into the pricing you see now. That's rather the point. First, people said, "Yippee the fact that landlords have to let us have satellite dishes will be the panacea we have wanted! Now we can get our content from services that serve small satellites instead of getting our content from cable!" And voila, after the early-adopter advantage expired, people went back to complaining about the prices. Then, people said, "Yippee competition from RCN, FIOS and U-Verse will be the panacea we have wanted! Now we can get our content from competitors and that will lower everyone's prices!" And voila, even in neighborhoods where Dish Network, DirecTV, RCN and FIOS all competed with Comcast, after the early-adopter advantage expired, people went back to complaining about the prices. Then people said, "Yippee cord-cutting will be the panacea we have wanted! Now we can get our content OTT!" And voila, after the early-adopter advantage expired, people are back to complaining about the prices. Why is it so difficult to recognize the pattern, that no matter what short-term disruption there is to the marketplace, the pricing always eventually goes back to what is dictated by value-based pricing?

 

[W2R]

In a million years , DW would never ever allow something that loked like that in a living space.

Thanks so much. That is why you put it BEHIND the TV where it can't be seen (or photographed), as I mentioned in my post. Most people do that if it matters to them. It doesn't to me.

 

[Midpack]

After 12 months, our 40+% discount with DISH expired and they haven’t chosen to extend it. They offered a lesser discount for a 12 month commitment, no thanks. So after 9 years, we cancelled our DISH subscription effective 1/27.

I subscribed to PS Vue today, and have it up and running on iOS devices and on the basement (exercise room) TV using Chromecast. I’ll be buying one or two Roku’s soon for the two main TV’s. We’ll get every channel we want, including all local majors, except PBS. But we can view most of our favorite PBS programs using their free app, and for $5/mo we can get Passport and access to all PBS programming.

In addition to live TV, we have unlimited 28-day cloud DVR, plus on demand, and viewing on up to 5 devices simultaneously.

Nice to finally cut the cord after threatening to cancel DISH a year ago!

 

[bloom2708]

Amazon Fire TV/Amazon Prime/Netflix/Playstation Vue/Cable Modem Internet

After 2 years of "cutting the cord" our internet service has gone up $15 and Playstation Vue has gone up $10. Vue dropped the Core Slim package. Our internet provider offered 2 years of incentives. They are now gone. I have not (will not) call and beg for $15 off our bill.

Another factor to be considered is the portability/simplification. With our wifi solution, TVs no longer have to be by a wall jack. Internet/Network hard wires are no longer required. No powerline wall jacks being used as hacks when no corded solutions are available.

If a person can run Netflix (and the remote associated with a Fire TV or Roku or Apple TV), then they sure should be able to launch PS Vue or DirecTV Now or Sling TV.

I don't think Vue is more complicated than a cable box. My parents refuse to pay $10 for a TiVo cable box with their package. They are constantly fighting the channels moving, the 15.8 channel, no guide, no HD, stretched screens being made to fit a 16:9 screen. I don't think that is "easier". My dad has only the locals in HD. They are 404, 406, 410. He still watches the SD version on 4, 6, 10, etc. I try to help, but you can only help so much.

Different is not necessarily harder. But, there comes a time when people do not want to learn something new. I will probably reach that stage as well.

We still save at least $40/month over our $150 Direct TV bill. Cutting the cord may not save you as much as people would like, but there usually is a cost savings and the simplification that can result.

 

[bloom2708]

After 12 months, our 40+% discount with DISH expired and they haven’t chosen to extend it. They offered a lesser discount for a 12 month commitment, no thanks. So after 9 years, we cancelled our DISH subscription effective 1/27.

I subscribed to PS Vue today, and have it up and running on iOS devices and on the basement (exercise room) TV using Chromecast. I’ll be buying one or two Roku’s soon for the two main TV’s. We’ll get every channel we want, including all local majors, except PBS. But we can view most of our favorite PBS programs using their free app, and for $5/mo we can get Passport and access to all PBS programming.

In addition to live TV, we have unlimited 28-day cloud DVR, plus on demand, and viewing on up to 5 devices simultaneously.

Nice to finally cut the cord after threatening to cancel DISH a year ago!

See if you can try Vue on Fire TV as compared to Roku. The UI is really good on Fire TV (Amazon). Might be worth it to consider Fire TV over Roku especially if you already have Amazon Prime.

 

[W2R]

Nice to finally cut the cord after threatening to cancel DISH a year ago!

Super!!!

So, how much will your total monthly bill be now for PS Vue, Passport, and any other streaming services or devices you want? Even though it won't be $0.00, still I'd imagine it will be a lot less than it was.

 

[Cobra9777]

After 12 months, our 40+% discount with DISH expired and they haven’t chosen to extend it. They offered a lesser discount for a 12 month commitment, no thanks. So after 9 years, we cancelled our DISH subscription effective 1/27.

I subscribed to PS Vue today, and have it up and running on iOS devices and on the basement (exercise room) TV using Chromecast. I’ll be buying one or two Roku’s soon for the two main TV’s. We’ll get every channel we want, including all local majors, except PBS. But we can view most of our favorite PBS programs using their free app, and for $5/mo we can get Passport and access to all PBS programming.

In addition to live TV, we have unlimited 28-day cloud DVR, plus on demand, and viewing on up to 5 devices simultaneously.

Nice to finally cut the cord after threatening to cancel DISH a year ago!

I think you'll be happy with PS Vue. We get all the locals in our market, except PBS as you noted. We contribute to the local PBS affiliate so we have the Passport. But we still miss some of the syndicated shows that aired on Saturday. Even with Passport, the app does not have everything that goes out OTA.

We run Vue on two Fire TV boxes and the integration is really good and improving. For example, voice searches on the remote include PS Vue content. Never tried Roku. I imagine the experience is about the same, but may be worth some research.

DS gave us an Amazon Echo for Christmas and it's also heavily integrated with both the Fire TV platform and PS Vue app. So I barely even need a remote. For example, when watching a cloud DVR recording, when a commercial starts, I just say, "Alexa, fast forward 3 minutes."

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

There are already enough competitors for distribution of video entertainment. That effect is already baked into the pricing you see now. That's rather the point. First, people said, "Yippee the fact that landlords have to let us have satellite dishes will be the panacea we have wanted! Now we can get our content from services that serve small satellites instead of getting our content from cable!" And voila, after the early-adopter advantage expired, people went back to complaining about the prices. Then, people said, "Yippee competition from RCN, FIOS and U-Verse will be the panacea we have wanted! Now we can get our content from competitors and that will lower everyone's prices!" And voila, even in neighborhoods where Dish Network, DirecTV, RCN and FIOS all competed with Comcast, after the early-adopter advantage expired, people went back to complaining about the prices. Then people said, "Yippee cord-cutting will be the panacea we have wanted! Now we can get our content OTT!" And voila, after the early-adopter advantage expired, people are back to complaining about the prices. Why is it so difficult to recognize the pattern, that no matter what short-term disruption there is to the marketplace, the pricing always eventually goes back to what is dictated by value-based pricing?

Because there is not much competition on the local level. In the big cities there are large companies that compete with each other, but they will not allow a smaller player in. There is your high pricing right there. The large corporations either come up with some legal tactic to sue or buy out the threat to their core business. Thus prices stay high.
There is also another reason. The large film maker studios that make and produce films and companies that own the rights to shows and films as well as the channels themselves dictate to the satellite companies and cable what channels they must carry in a package or else they do not get the popular channels. The cable companies know this and pass the cost on to us. Enough to line their pockets and enough to keep the content producers happy. This is why we have lousy cable tiers with ripoff pricing.

 

[bUU]

Because there is not much competition on the local level.

There is effective competition in every jurisdiction in the United States, but even if you don't agree about that being applicable everywhere, the pricing is the same even where there is no doubt about it (as I outlined above) so competition is a red herring.

There is also another reason. The large film maker studios that make and produce films and companies that own the rights to shows and films as well as the channels themselves dictate to the satellite companies and cable what channels they must carry in a package or else they do not get the popular channels.

Yet there are more than just a few studios; there is more than enough competition there too.

Competition isn't the issue. It's value. The pricing reflects how much consumers value what is offered.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

There is effective competition in every jurisdiction in the United States, but even if you don't agree about that being applicable everywhere, the pricing is the same even where there is no doubt about it (as I outlined above) so competition is a red herring.

Yet there are more than just a few studios; there is more than enough competition there too.

Competition isn't the issue. It's value. The pricing reflects how much consumers value what is offered.

I just disagree . The point you don't seem to get is they all stick together if there is a threat. When there is no threat , they all sit back and benefit from the monopoly. The big companies do not fear each other. They fear smaller players with reasonable prices and will do anything to get rid of them. But we can just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[bUU]

And you can agree to disagree with the FCC and FTC as well, since they agree with me.

 

[W2R]

I am not aiming this comment at any particular person, but many people find the forum's "ignore" function to be helpful. Here is how to use it:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/forums-101-posting-accounts-basics-40168.html#post739553

I like to post this information now and then in the hopes that it will enhance someone's enjoyment during their time here at the ER Forum.

 

[tryan]

So I had a New Years resolution to cut the cord .... so Dec was a test run. So I purchased channels for the roku in conjunction with Netflix. Then I hit the 350 gig limit on my internet .... "HUH? I have a limit?? Arrgg!". I can buy an additional 350gig but the price is the same as the cable bill.

 

[bloom2708]

So I had a New Years resolution to cut the cord .... so Dec was a test run. So I purchased channels for the roku in conjunction with Netflix. Then I hit the 350 gig limit on my internet .... "HUH? I have a limit?? Arrgg!". I can buy an additional 350gig but the price is the same as the cable bill.

This is very common. Most people are unaware that they have a limit to their internet.

We have Netflix set to be one step down on the quality ladder. This keeps Netflix from downloading in Super HD. That can be 7-10 GB for an hour. If you log into your profile on a comptuer, you can set the bandwidth for each profile. Some know about this.

We have two main cable internet providers.

One has a 300GB limit. The other has unlimited. Priced similar. If you stream, it is an easy decision to switch to the "no limit" provider.

I have found that Playstation Vue is pretty thrifty when it comes to bandwidth usage. We had a trial of SlingTV early on and it consumed way more data per hour. Not sure if that hold true now.

We use about 600-700GB (family of 5) per month. We have been close to 1TB a few months with long school breaks and terrible weather.

 

[Perryinva]

This looks very interesting. It appears that the DVR is really just a micro SD card. What size card do you plan on using?

128Gb is only $45. Should be more than enough, since I don’t store shows forever. The nice thing is I can also get say a 32gB for $12 in case something specific comes up that Inwould like to keep for a while separate and it is easy to transfer files to a PC.

I keep seeing people refer to local channels on Roku. Is that something new?

Also, pretty hard to put an antenna of any size behind a wall mounted TV where all mine are. The attic makes more sense.

 

[ERD50]

....
Unfortunately, my mom lives in an assisted living home where an outdoor antenna is not an option. I tried an indoor antenna but only got two stations, neither of which was anything she was interested in. She currently has Comcast cable and it's horrible. .... I hate paying $75 a month for cable that she only watches a few channels on. I've tried Sling, Hulu, Playstation Vue, and DirectTVNow. The menu's were all way to complicated for her to understand, so I ended up cancelling them. ...

Not sure if this would help, but what if you recorded a hundred hours of shows for her (various standalone DVRs are available), and just set them to play back in a loop on one input of the TV.

Nothing to navigate, just switch to that TV input. Mostly people just want "something on", doesn't matter much if it's a rerun or whatever.

-ERD50

 

[jimbee]

I am not aiming this comment at any particular person, but many people find the forum's "ignore" function to be helpful. Here is how to use it:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/forums-101-posting-accounts-basics-40168.html#post739553

I like to post this information now and then in the hopes that it will enhance someone's enjoyment during their time here at the ER Forum.

That's a good reminder W2R, and I finally did put one poster on ignore. The problem is, other people keep quoting that particular poster. Oh well.

 

[Midpack]

See if you can try Vue on Fire TV as compared to Roku. The UI is really good on Fire TV (Amazon). Might be worth it to consider Fire TV over Roku especially if you already have Amazon Prime.

Though the Fire TV interface is indeed nice and we shop on Amazon some, I’m not a Prime subscriber and I don’t want to have Amazon content and services shoved in my face all the time as Fire and Apple do. Vue now has a grid guide on their Roku app, the only glaring omission they had. Roku performance is great and their app agnostic, we prefer that.

 

[Midpack]

Super!!!

So, how much will your total monthly bill be now for PS Vue, Passport, and any other streaming services or devices you want? Even though it won't be $0.00, still I'd imagine it will be a lot less than it was.

We were paying DISH $77/mo with a lower tier 120+ channel package (about 100 useless channels) with 2 nine year old receivers and one DVR limited to two shows at a time. They informed us it would be going up to $88/mo with no upgrade of any kind. I would have cancelled a year ago but they gave us a $35/mo ($46/mo discount vs the proposed) discount to keep us, until this month.

So now we’re paying $45/mo for PS Vue including all local major networks and PBS Passport will be $5/mo. We have a 28-day cloud DVR that’ll record as many shows as we want, and we can view on up to 5 devices (TV, PC, phone, tablet) simultaneously. And our guide isn’t cluttered up with 80%+ junk channels. Picture quality is improved too, lots of compression on DISH, not really 1080p.

Who knows, we may spring for Netflix or another movie channel and still be ahead $372/year with far greater capability! We’re not power TV watchers, so it appears to be a no brainer for us.

 

[W2R]

We were paying DISH $77/mo with a lower tier 120+ channel package (about 100 useless channels) with 2 nine year old receivers and one DVR limited to two shows at a time. They informed us it would be going up to $88/mo with no upgrade of any kind. I would have cancelled a year ago but they gave us a $35/mo ($46/mo discount vs the proposed) discount to keep us, until this month.

So now we’re paying $45/mo for PS Vue including all local major networks and PBS Passport will be $5/mo. We have a 28-day cloud DVR that’ll record as many shows as we want, and we can view on up to 5 devices (TV, PC, phone, tablet) simultaneously. And our guide isn’t cluttered up with 80%+ junk channels. Picture quality is improved too, lots of compression on DISH, not really 1080p.

Who knows, we may spring for Netflix or another movie channel and still be ahead $372/year with far greater capability! We’re not power TV watchers, so it appears to be a no brainer for us.

Sounds great!!! You definitely did the right thing, IMO anyway. I love having extra discretionary money every single month, now that I am no longer paying for cable TV.

 

[bUU]

Sounds great!!! You definitely did the right thing, IMO anyway.

This is becoming standard practice. Many service providers are viewing discounts as a means of attracting customers to switch to their service, but finding that they're better off letting those customers go who insist on the discounted price in perpetuity, relying on the fact that so many more of their customers will stick with the service provider even after their introductory, courtesy, and retention discounts expire, just to avoid the hassles of switching. It will definitely be to the consumer's (financial) benefit to jump from service provider to service provider every few years.

The key is setting yourself up so that the drudgery of switching doesn't affect you. That means avoiding purchasing equipment that is tied to one specific service or type of service. It also means avoiding becoming beholden to specific programming - i.e., avoiding "having to" watch the final season of xxx when it is first broadcast instead of waiting a few years until you resubscribe to a service as a "new" customers that offers that programming.

 

[Midpack]

The key is setting yourself up so that the drudgery of switching doesn't affect you. That means avoiding purchasing equipment that is tied to one specific service or type of service. It also means avoiding becoming beholden to specific programming - i.e., avoiding "having to" watch the final season of xxx when it is first broadcast instead of waiting a few years until you resubscribe to a service as a "new" customers that offers that programming.

+1. No contract service has become a high priority for us. I can’t imagine entering into another 1 year, much less 2 year contract for TV.

Cable and satellite have much higher hardware costs and armies of techs, so they can’t possibly take on new customers without contracts. I’ll be surprised if cable and satellite TV are still around in 10-20 years, but who knows.

With streaming TV the streaming hardware costs are low (Roku, Apple, Amazon Fire, Chromecast) and that hardware can be used with almost any streaming service. I’ve watched the streaming service landscape for quite a while and PlayStation Vue is clearly the best choice for us. But if Direct TV Now, Sling TV, YouTube TV, Hulu Live or another service looks better some day, we can switch in a month or less, without any new hardware.

Used to be when the ever present Direct TV rep at Costco stopped and asked who our TV provider was, and I answered DISH, he/she would launch into a long spiel about switching. Now when I answer ‘we stream TV’, the Direct TV rep just lets us pass without a word...