Coronavirus - Travel impacts II

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Travel in May-what to do?

I have paid a deposit to attend a music festival in Italy at the end of May. It is in a medium sized town in the Province of Cuneo-not currently one of the affected regions. But who knows? I have not yet booked my flight, and the final payment is due at the end of March.

My problem isn't if I get sick-I can take precautions, but may get sick anyway. My problem is that currently the CDC recommends self-quarantine for 14 days after returning from Italy (anywhere in Italy!). Currently, that is something that will place a burden on my community locally that I do not want to subject them to. I have 3 concerts the weekend I get back, two of them in retirement communities (one a CCRC and the other for older, less able folks). I am a lead player in all of these groups, and I carpool with a 65 year old flutist with mild dementia.

I would love to go, but I think I shouldn't. What do you all think?
 
EastWest Gal said:
I have paid a deposit to attend a music festival in Italy at the end of May. It is in a medium sized town in the Province of Cuneo-not currently one of the affected regions. But who knows? I have not yet booked my flight, and the final payment is due at the end of March.

My problem isn't if I get sick-I can take precautions, but may get sick anyway. My problem is that currently the CDC recommends self-quarantine for 14 days after returning from Italy (anywhere in Italy!). Currently, that is something that will place a burden on my community locally that I do not want to subject them to. I have 3 concerts the weekend I get back, two of them in retirement communities (one a CCRC and the other for older, less able folks). I am a lead player in all of these groups, and I carpool with a 65 year old flutist with mild dementia.

I would love to go, but I think I shouldn't. What do you all think?
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Wow....that's a tough one. I appreciate the concern for your community upon your return. Given your activities upon return, I might choose to cancel, especially since it seems you're not "all-in" yet on the trip's financial obligation.

Is there a way you could find a substitute for the post-trip concerts? Is the festival one that you could attend next year instead? Or is a once in a lifetime opportunity?

Best of luck to you.
 
EastWest Gal said:
I have paid a deposit to attend a music festival in Italy at the end of May.
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If it helps any, the travel companies are being quite understanding. We had already bought nonrefundable tickets to Italy for early May, but we decided there were too many unknowns so we canceled. Delta gave us 100% refund, no questions asked.
 
EastWest Gal said:
TSA agents should be wearing nitrile gloves if they inspect your suitcase. It's to protect them from your stuff. They wear gloves when inspecting your carryon luggage for sure. And they change gloves with each inspection. I wouldn't worry about it.
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How do you know they change gloves each inspection ?
They would go through 100 pairs each day, and when I see them inspect bags in the security line, they don't change gloves.
 
EastWest Gal said:
TSA agents should be wearing nitrile gloves if they inspect your suitcase. It's to protect them from your stuff. They wear gloves when inspecting your carryon luggage for sure. And they change gloves with each inspection. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Thanks for the thoughtful post. I’m not worried and was suggesting this does not seem to be a high risk situation.

Sunset said:
How do you know they change gloves each inspection ?
They would go through 100 pairs each day, and when I see them inspect bags in the security line, they don't change gloves.
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Same applies here. TSA searching luggage is not a high risk factor.
 
MichaelB said:
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I’m not worried and was suggesting this does not seem to be a high risk situation.


Same applies here. TSA searching luggage is not a high risk factor.
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No I don't think it's a high risk, and one could throw their clothes in a dryer if they were worried.
 
We have air travel planned for July and September. Not planning on cancelling at this time.
Will do what I always do on the plane; use antiseptic wipes on the seat, trays, seat belts. And wash my hands thoroughly and frequently.
 
Sunset said:
How do you know they change gloves each inspection ?
They would go through 100 pairs each day, and when I see them inspect bags in the security line, they don't change gloves.
Click to expand...

You could be right. They probably change gloves periodically thoughI haven't flown since last year and my bag was last inspected in 2017. Working in a hospital, I went through many pairs of gloves each day. I washed or sanitized, put on gloves, and took them off before I left the room.
 
Teacher Terry said:
I am guessing those of you still traveling are young and healthy.
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I’m in the rather difficult situation of supervising care for my elderly dad who is under hospice care and lives several states away. I don’t have any choice but to travel to be with him, and have been making occasional trips home. If the SHTF I’ll drive if necessary and stay put for a long while. If his assisted living place gets hit, all bets are off. It’s not a medical facility.

I’m 60 in good health.
 
EastWest Gal said:
You could be right. They probably change gloves periodically thoughI haven't flown since last year and my bag was last inspected in 2017. Working in a hospital, I went through many pairs of gloves each day. I washed or sanitized, put on gloves, and took them off before I left the room.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think the gloves are to protect the TSA agent only, so I don’t expect them to change them. They certainly don’t change gloves in security - checking IDs and boarding passes, handling bags.

One of my bags had been inspected yesterday with a notice inside. Suspicious frozen smoked pork chops inside a little cooler bag. I usually leave what I think they might inspect on top.
 
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Trooper said:
Wow....that's a tough one. I appreciate the concern for your community upon your return. Given your activities upon return, I might choose to cancel, especially since it seems you're not "all-in" yet on the trip's financial obligation.

Is there a way you could find a substitute for the post-trip concerts? Is the festival one that you could attend next year instead? Or is a once in a lifetime opportunity?

Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

Not really. The first concert is a group I actually run. The other two concerts-perhaps. I'm not all in emotionally this year either. Especially with the economic rollercoaster that is my portfolio, currently my main source of income.

It is not a once in a lifetime opportunity. I've been going yearly since 2016.

I appreciate the feedback. This group is sensible.
 
Three Choices, Not Two?

With respect to the "go / no-go" travel decision we've been talking about here, I find it's a little more complicated. It seems you must examine the precautions you would or would not take if you stayed home.

  • Travel (with convenient preventions)
  • Stay Home Status-Quo (with convenient preventions)
  • Stay Home Hunker-Down (difficult, but high reliability of avoiding the virus)
Obviously there are various levels of the latter two, but for clarity in this thought experiment, I'll be using this simplification. The preventions are things that don't stop activities, they just require a few extra steps, like the social distancing, hand washing, even N95 masks. The last category is simply not going out of the house (or maybe going out every few weeks for 'emergencies', but doing a full decontamination).

Let's say at home you are active (go places, do things) and that rate of activity will be similar when you're traveling. That would be a stretch for us; we'd be about twice as active while traveling since we'd be sight seeing and eating at restaurants most of the time.

Let's also say that people at your home location and proposed destination are all equally likely to be shedding the virus (which, in a month or less, will probably reflect reality, as the virus spreads out).

If you don't travel and also don't hunker-down, what benefit have you derived?

True, as a traveler, you'll be more active, so have more chances of picking up the virus. This is especially true if you plan to go to crowded "tourist sites", or, ehem, one of the floating petri dishes. But let's say you're on your own and mostly out in nature (at least that's what my planned trip is going to be like, if I go). Also true, if you get sick away from home, you might have difficulty getting care, so the health care available at your destination certainly is a factor. But if we're talking about the life and death kind of thing, and not something you recover from, what you'd look at is the number of ventilators available, and the US might not necessarily be the best place for that.

If one was traveling to a place with the same or better emergency room capability as their home country, and the infection risk is about the same in both places, then the survivability might be about the same, travel or not. The only way to increase survivability would be to take the third option, and hunker-down at home. But that's hard. For us, I just don't see that happening. I made plans so we could hunker-down if we decided to, but I just don't see that we have the drive to lock ourselves in the house for so many months, or longer.

As a simplification of the thought experiment...if you aren't going to take extreme measures at home (hunker-down), then travel only involves climbing into a flying-cigar-tube-petri-dish for some hours as the main additional risk, plus the increased risk from being more active.

Sorry for the ramble. I just realized that travel versus no-travel is a lot more similar in our case because we almost certainly would just go about our business 'normally' if we did no travel. So staying home without sequestering ourselves seems not all that different from doing the travel.
 
MichaelB said:
TSA usually leaves a notice that a bag was inspected.
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And even if they fail to do so, you can always leave the luggage in your house for 5 days before you touch anything in it or out of it. (I think the virus can survive up to 4 days at room temperature is what I read. The virus lasts longer in low temp.)
 
I read that the virus can live up to 9 days. If I end up needing to be quarantined I want to be home with my dogs. Not stuck in a small motel room. Being able to be outside in my backyard would make a world of difference. If things get bad we will just stay home.
 
sengsational said:
As a simplification of the thought experiment...if you aren't going to take extreme measures at home (hunker-down), then travel only involves climbing into a flying-cigar-tube-petri-dish for some hours as the main additional risk, plus the increased risk from being more active.

S
Click to expand...

Yes, its that flying cigar tube that concerns me. My upcoming trip from FL to CA to help DM do her taxes and prepare her garden for spring crops has me a little concerned. The more I try to learn about transmission, the more confused my decision becomes.
 
Put texas on the map! They didn’t even get past trial runs of the new test and they hit a positive.
 
Off to Las Vegas on Monday to attend a conference with many health care workers. Seems like very few have chosen not to attend.
 
Rick Steves is now canceling his tours to Italy through March 31. He posted this tonight:

As of March 4, the Government of Italy has implemented enhanced screening and quarantine measures to reduce the spread of COVID-19. As of 12:00 a.m. March 3, all passengers on U.S.-bound flights whose temperature is higher than 99.5 degrees Fahrenheit are not being permitted to board. Travelers should be prepared for additional travel restrictions to be put into effect with little or no advance notice.
 
I read that a cruise ship from SF to Mexico was carrying a passenger with the coronavirus. I've never been a cruise ship type of person, but must less now than before.
 
Italy has decided to close all schools and universities throughout the country, not just around Milan.

And field hospitals are being set up.

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