Standardized Covid Treatment Protocols?

[spncity]

These are the US doctors who have signed up (so far) to be listed on the website for the MATH+ Protocol and the I-MASK+ Protocol. These would be in addition to the original group that put the protocol together.

USA, Colorado Siegfried Emme FNP Loveland Medical Clinic
USA, Florida Thomas Sanders MD
USA, Florida Chris Backsman APRN Optimized Health and Wellness
USA, Illinois, Chicago Alan Bain MD
USA, Louisiana, New Orleans Mignonne Mary MD
USA, Massachusetts Roberto Larios MD
USA, New York Robert L. Bard MD Bard Cancer Center
USA, South Dakota Srinivas K. Gangineni MD, MBA, FCCP Monument Health
USA, Tennessee Rabin Shrestha MD UTHSC (Univ. of TN Health Science Center)
USA, Texas Delia Garcia Nurse practitioner, FNP
USA, Texas Odette Campbell MD North Texas Medical Specialists
USA, Texas Richard L. Neel MD Alsatian Care
USA, Virginia, Norfolk Dominick Rascona MD, FCCP

 

[eytonxav]

I think docs do try to employ best practices. Just that there's no one agree practice.

That was the whole point of my post, there should be standardized best practices.

 

[spncity]

I-MASK+ Prevention Protocol and After Exposure Protocol - Emerging evidence supports

The link is for a new download document on the I-MASK+ Prevention Protocol.

Ivermectin in the prophylaxis and treatment of COVID-19

Nov. 11, 2020 FLCCC Alliance www.FLCCC.net

A review of the emerging evidence supporting the use of ivermectin in the prophylaxis and treatment of COVID-19
_______________________________________

Page 16 is where the prevention protocol starts.

See page 17 for dosage amounts that go by weight.

The early part of the article reviews the hospital treatment protocol MATH+ and ivermectin has now been added as a core component of MATH+.

Included are charts from different places that show the death rate going down with ivermectin, even if cases have gone up.

 

[sengsational]

The link is for a new download document on the I-MASK+ Prevention Protocol.

Thanks for posting the link. The title of the paper is "Review of the Emerging Evidence Supporting the Use of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19"

I had seen some of those studies, and some I found less than convincing. But there are two prospective studies that are helping me be more convinced.

I sent a note to my doctor to ask if I came to him in a virtual visit and he acknowledged I was likely to be showing early Covid-19 symptoms, would he call-in a prescription for Ivermectin. We'll see what he says. I heard you weren't supposed to ingest the dog or horse versions, even though the active ingredient is the same thing, it's the other stuff in it that hasn't been tested in humans.

 

[Time2]

Treatment of the Cytokine storm

Here's a possible life saving treatment to reduce the Cytokine storm caused by Covid 19.


https://www.kalb.com/2020/11/20/st-...ugh-and-discover-possible-covid-19-treatment/


Here's a link to the summary in 'Cell' within that summary page is a DOI link to the full article.

 

[gauss]

I looked at the CDC recently to see if there was any treatments available for folks similar to me who either show any Covid symptoms or test positive.

Unfortunately there were no recommended treatments for someone who is otherwise healthy, 'young' and not hospitalized.

I guess I will 'ride it out -- at home' if I become infected, but can still breathe and have relatively normal SpO2 levels


-gauss

 

[gauss]

Thanks for posting the link. The title of the paper is "Review of the Emerging Evidence Supporting the Use of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19"

I remember seeing the reference to Ivermectin back when this all began (when I was also trying to figure out if industrial/welding oxygen could be used to assist breathing in a pinch). Ivermectin -- the veterinary drug for animal ringworm. Who would have thought.

-gauss

 

[REWahoo]

I looked at the CDC recently to see if there was any treatments available for folks similar to me who either show any Covid symptoms or test positive.

Unfortunately there were no recommended treatments for someone who is otherwise healthy, 'young' and not hospitalized.

Not the CDC, but "Developed and updated by Paul Marik, MD, Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Norfolk, VA"

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...nal_medicine/Marik-Covid-Protocol-Summary.pdf

Note the section titled "Mildly Symptomatic patients (at home):"

 

[gauss]

I am a bit surprised the CDC has not pushed a protocol like the one in Popeye's post. It just seems to me, some best practices for treatment should be espoused, even if some adjustments are needed based on individual patient circumstances.

I didn't review Popeye's post, but the [-]CDC[/-] NIH does have published treatment protocols. [-]Maybe you have to search the 'provider' section of their web site, not the retail side.[/-]

If you need me to track down the link, then please let me know. I was able to locate it with google.

-gauss

 

[gauss]

Not the CDC, but "Developed and updated by Paul Marik, MD, Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Norfolk, VA"

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...nal_medicine/Marik-Covid-Protocol-Summary.pdf

Note the section titled "Mildly Symptomatic patients (at home):"

Thank you for the reference.

But please note that some of his suggestions contradict the advice given by the CDC (ie no more Zinc then the recommended daily amount). That was just the one that I remember off-hand.

I am ticked that I didn't bookmark the CDC link. Maybe I will search my browser history.

edit:
www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov
Ok -- I found it. The recommendations are from the NIH, not the CDC.

-gauss

 

[sengsational]

But please note that some of his suggestions contradict the advice given by the CDC ...

When it comes to keeping people out of the hospital in the first place, the CDC and NIH and those kinds of groups seem to have nothing to offer. They simply are not offering any guidance. I'm not sure if they're even saying "make sure your vitamin D,25-Hydroxy is high enough", which seems like a slam-dunk to me.

So you need to look elsewhere for what I'm calling your personal "covid cocktail" (treatments taken as prophylactic against severe Covid-19). There are quite a few studies done outside of the USA that indicate lowered chance of getting sick, and lowered severity if you do get sick using over the counter interventions. But nobody's going to make any money on those, so there's no incentive to promote those. Of course those same agencies, if really looking out for public health, should be spearheading those kinds of studies. Those would be so easy to do because the interventions are so safe (using compounds that are a long safety record). I think when the dust settles, when countries are compared (looking at who spent the most, made the most wrong moves, who lost the most lives, etc), I think the countries that will come out ahead will be those that have a reasonable ability to deliver health care, but not so big as to have their hands tied by a medical-industrial complex.

 

[Katoslake]

Two new Monoclonal antibodies approved

Two new MAB’s approved for emergency use in the last few days, weeks. Sounds like progress

 

[eytonxav]

IIRC an article appeared in Scientific America suggesting that receiving the annual flu shot may lower ones chance of infection/severity of Covid 19. Also, didn't the FDA just approve for emergency use the therapeutic Trump was given that seemed to cure him quickly?

 

[sengsational]

Two new MAB’s approved for emergency use in the last few days, weeks. Sounds like progress

Monoclonal antibodies are what Trump got, and he got them early in the disease progression, which is when they can be most effective.

The clinician on TWiV, who never talks about anything that isn't mainstreamed by the US medical establishment wasn't very bullish on monoclonal antibodies. He (and others on TWiV) liked them better than convalescent plasma, since they have just what's needed, not a bunch of other random cr*p from some other person. But he was saying the studies that got them approved show that they shorten the duration of the disease by one day! And you need to pay (I think he said it was $3,000). And to top it all off, you really want to get out of the hospital, and the treatments are spread out over multiple days, and must be administered in the hospital (IV). So you might be otherwise ready to get out of the hospital, but because you haven't gotten the full set of IV's, you can't go home

I'm not sure if they have another clinical endpoint other than duration of disease. I'd only be "sold" on monoclonal antibodies if a) I got them very early in the disease progression, and b) the clinical endpoint of "disease progression to severe" was reduced.

 

[sengsational]

This is a page has 4 PDF links that contain statements by prominent people in the medical community, read into a senate hearing that's titled "Early Outpatient Treatment: An Essential Part of a COVID-19 Solution"

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/hearin...ment-an-essential-part-of-a-covid-19-solution

There's also an embedded 2:24:55 video of the hearing.

Three of the medical community statements support immediate use of at-home interventions. The hearing centered around the question about the current institutions having no early treatment (stay at home, wait to get very sick, then go to the hospital), and why it's been difficult for doctors to offer early at-home treatments. There was a lot of discussion about what evidence should and should not be trusted, and how randomized controlled trials are great, but that other evidence is valid as well. A lot of discussion of hydroxychloroquin and how it is over the counter and in the mainstream protocols in many countries, and is proven effective if used in early treatment (proven by the low hospitalization and death rates when compared to the US). They talk a little bit about alternative zinc ionaphors (quercetin, ECGC) and just mention ivermectin in passing.

You can get through the PDF's in just a few minutes, but the more interesting stuff is in the discussions afterward.

 

[eytonxav]

This is a page has 4 PDF links that contain statements by prominent people in the medical community, read into a senate hearing that's titled "Early Outpatient Treatment: An Essential Part of a COVID-19 Solution"

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/hearin...ment-an-essential-part-of-a-covid-19-solution

There's also an embedded 2:24:55 video of the hearing.

Three of the medical community statements support immediate use of at-home interventions. The hearing centered around the question about the current institutions having no early treatment (stay at home, wait to get very sick, then go to the hospital), and why it's been difficult for doctors to offer early at-home treatments. There was a lot of discussion about what evidence should and should not be trusted, and how randomized controlled trials are great, but that other evidence is valid as well. A lot of discussion of hydroxychloroquin and how it is over the counter and in the mainstream protocols in many countries, and is proven effective if used in early treatment (proven by the low hospitalization and death rates when compared to the US). They talk a little bit about alternative zinc ionaphors (quercetin, ECGC) and just mention ivermectin in passing.

You can get through the PDF's in just a few minutes, but the more interesting stuff is in the discussions afterward.

This WSJ article mentions the senate hearing and suggests that Doctors are not prescribing therapeutics for early treatment out of fear of backlash. Probably stems from the politicization that took place back in the Spring that halted hydroxychloroquin use. Seems like malpractice to me.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/too-much-caution-is-killing-covid-patients-11606238928

 

[pacergal]

DH and I started the iMASK prophylaxis protocol, except for ivermectin, which is RX.
Everything else is OTC.
Figured it wouldn't hurt and it has quite a bit of immunity building aspect to it.

I found a nice print out from Eastern Virginia Medical School web:
evms.edu/covidcare

 

[sengsational]

DH and I started the iMASK prophylaxis protocol, except for ivermectin, which is RX.
Everything else is OTC.
Figured it wouldn't hurt and it has quite a bit of immunity building aspect to it.

I found a nice print out from Eastern Virginia Medical School web:
evms.edu/covidcare

That page recommends Dr. Paul Marik's protocol, which incorporates all of the latest findings across the world. You can find the PDF here: https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...nal_medicine/Marik-Covid-Protocol-Summary.pdf to see what's recommended before you're exposed, at first symptoms, etc. I've found a doctor that said he'd "work with me" on ivermectin, should the day come when I have my first symptom.

 

[audreyh1]

I noticed Quercetin on the list of prophylaxis. I’d never heard of it before. An anti-inflammatory? I take curcumin (turmeric) daily.

 

[Another Reader]

Quercetin is an anti-histamine. Some h-1 and h-2 blockers such as Pepcid and Zyrtec have been helpful in relieving symptoms for long haul patients.

Lots of clinical trials are beginning now, including some for long haul patients. An HIV drug, Maraviroc, has been proposed to treat COVID, as has Leronlimab. Check out Dr. Bruce Patterson and his company, IncellDx, for someone who is at least trying to help long haul patients. Dr. Patterson is or was a professor at Stanford Medical School and a long time HIV researcher.

It is looking more and more like SARS-CoV-2 is a persistent virus and is the underlying cause of many if not most long haul patient issues. It's also capable of mutating in the body, which has implications for vaccines and immunity. One recent article theorizes it will remain in the human population and become endemic.

ETA: There are no currently approved therapeutic drugs to treat the virus, except possibly Remdesivir. The current research is on the efficacy of already approved drugs for other diseases that could be used off label for COVID-19. Maraviroc is one. One of the most interesting drugs is GS-441524, a metabolite of Remdesivir. It is used to treat FIP in cats with a high degree of success in a treatment protocol pioneered by Dr. Pederson at UC Davis vet school. FIP is caused by a persistent alphacorona virus in cats that mutates. GS-441524 has fewer damaging side effects than Remdesivir and is believed to be more effective. There is at least one clinical trial in the works.

 

[sengsational]

I noticed Quercetin on the list of prophylaxis. I’d never heard of it before. An anti-inflammatory? I take curcumin (turmeric) daily.

I'm not sure I'd call it an anti-histamine. From Wikipedia:

Quercetin is a plant flavonol from the flavonoid group of polyphenols. It is found in many fruits, vegetables, leaves, seeds, and grains; red onions and kale are common foods containing appreciable amounts of quercetin.

It's used in early Covid-19 treatment as a zinc ionaphor, which means that it helps get zinc through cell membranes where the zinc can do it's magic to slow down viral replication. From the PDF below:

A word about quercetin. Some physicians are recommending this supplement to
reduce viral illnesses because quercetin acts as a zinc ionophore to improve zinc uptake into cells. It is much less potent than HCQ as a zinc transporter, and it does not reach high concentrations in lung cells that HCQ does. Quercetin may help reduce risk of viral illness if you are basically healthy. But it is not potent enough to replace HCQ for treatment of COVID once you have symptoms, and it does not adequately get into lung tissue unless you take massive doses (3-5 grams a day), which cause significant GI side effects such as diarrhea.

So you really want hydroxychloroquin or ivermectin as your zinc ionaphor, if you can get it. The guide in the PDF also recommends you find a doctor NOW that will prescribe what you need (don't wait to get sick to find out that your megapractice doctor is going to tell you to get horrifically sick before doing anything).

You can really dig into the mechanisms of action if you want to:

... flavonoids were enriched in multiple cell signaling pathways including MAPK signaling pathway, PI3K-Akt signaling pathway, FoxO signaling pathway and cAMP signaling pathway. In cellular processes, flavonoids can significantly regulate pathways such as apoptosis, focal adhesion, cell cycle, and autophagy

from: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.00918/full

Meanwhile, back to the more general topic of the thread... here is a guide to home-based Covid-19 treatment by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (a group founded in 1943):
https://aapsonline.org/covidpatientguide/
https://aapsonline.org/CovidPatientTreatmentGuide.pdf

 

[sengsational]

DH and I started the iMASK prophylaxis protocol, except for ivermectin, which is RX.

Here is a video of an interview with Dr. Paul Merik, the author of the MATH+ protocol and iMASK protocol.

This link starts playing on the ivermectin slide, and if you listen to just 20 seconds you'll see how there are multiple randomized control trials and multiple observational studies showing ivermectin works. Dosing is 0.2mg/kg, which works out to 12mg for most people.

https://youtu.be/xy8XcBodQv0?t=1689

 

[Another Reader]

Anecdotally, ivermectin has NOT been effective in treating long haul (persistent virus) patients. A number of support group members have gotten prescriptions for it because their doctors agreed that it was relatively harmless and might have some benefit. Not one person has reported any long term success with the drug. This points to ivermectin having efficacy in clearing virus only in early infections, before the virus becomes established in the body. Ivermectin will be studied in three upcoming clinical trials. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Covid19&term=ivermectin&cntry=US&state=&city=&dist=

Here's one preprint article that demonstrates viral persistence.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10....J5K5eAGyhYhyY6YAJbVoidUfE3LHDDWMbu_0EHYXi0Nfo

 

[sengsational]

The video with Dr. Paul Merik didn't talk about ivermectin in long haulers, but did say that in the three main phases, it was effective, and had a list of many completed studies that showed that effectiveness. As for the long haulers, I hope the right people complete some trustworthy analysis on various different treatments. Don't wait for big pharma, though, they'd rather have you sick and taking a drug every day for the rest of your life.

 

[sengsational]

... senate hearing that's titled "Early Outpatient Treatment: An Essential Part of a COVID-19 Solution"

At the very end of the hearing, the chairman said something to the effect of that the hearing record would be "open for comments" until December something or other.

Does anyone know how to add comments to a senate hearing? I poked around a bit, but didn't see anything online. I'm not willing to break out the pen and paper, but I'd write something online, if I knew where to go.