Thanksgiving

[Telly]

Had planned for it to be just the two of us, our DD, and her friend for Thanksgiving. But BIL and his DW have been wanting to visit since we moved into our new house here in TX in June 2019 (various delays - death in family, COVID-19).

So, BIL "told" us he and his DW are visiting us for EIGHT days around Thanksgiving, flying in from CA. I've known the two of them for 42 years (I met them before I met my DW), but I don't want them doing this. Beyond dealing with COVID-19, we're supposed to pick them up from the airport and drive them around, plus have them stay at our house.

The latter is a big issue as we only have our DD's old twin bed on a kid's bed frame, not sturdy enough to hold two adults. Also, our 12 year-old cat, who I documented here as having some dementia symptoms, will randomly urinate outside the litter box. The spare room twin bed has been victim to a few of those episodes.

This is a nightmare waiting to happen.

I'll play Dear Abby:

Nancy Reagan had the answer... "Just say NO!" You did not invite them, so you are not changing your mind. Use Covid-19 as the breaker. Short, sharp, direct. DO NOT explain further, no matter how much silence or weedling the other person may do. A lot of people do not know how to say NO. I have seen many people I know or worked with or at functions fail at preventing something, because they do not understand the basic manipulation that some people do to get their way. They break down others by either acting miffed (very few), or they bang away at the person who said "no"s reasons, one by one, then the "no" person folds. I have instructed people (who would listen and actually try) to be successful in saying NO. The ones who then failed did not stay on the program, but fell back under the assault. They started trying to explain why they said "no". It's not being rude. It is handling people who have developed characteristics that they use to their advantage, and other's disadvantage. A maxim I created years ago was "Do not reinforce the wrong behavioral characteristics".

I practice what I preach. I successfully instructed DW a couple years ago about a BIL through her side of the family that is very obnoxious. He called DW up and said he and his now-girlfriend were coming for a nephew's wedding, and expected us to pick them up at the airport (a long drive in terrible traffic), drive them around to entertain them, stay at our house for a bunch of days, etc. After DW said NO, other relatives of hers he then hit on said "NO" after they heard we repulsed him. So he did not attend, and the wedding did without his obnoxious BS 24/7.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I usually sum it up by reminding people that "No" is a complete sentence. The more you explain, as you said, the more certain people will use that against you. Remember, those people will try to manipulate you to get you to JADE: Justify, Argue, Defend, and Explain. When you start doing any of those with combative/narcissistic/borderline personalities, you've already lost, because they got you to play their game by their rules. The only way to win is not to play.

I'll play Dear Abby:

Nancy Reagan had the answer... "Just say NO!" You did not invite them, so you are not changing your mind. Use Covid-19 as the breaker. Short, sharp, direct. DO NOT explain further, no matter how much silence or weedling the other person may do. A lot of people do not know how to say NO. I have seen many people I know or worked with or at functions fail at preventing something, because they do not understand the basic manipulation that some people do to get their way. They break down others by either acting miffed (very few), or they bang away at the person who said "no"s reasons, one by one, then the "no" person folds. I have instructed people (who would listen and actually try) to be successful in saying NO. The ones who then failed did not stay on the program, but fell back under the assault. They started trying to explain why they said "no". It's not being rude. It is handling people who have developed characteristics that they use to their advantage, and other's disadvantage. A maxim I created years ago was "Do not reinforce the wrong behavioral characteristics".

I practice what I preach. I successfully instructed DW a couple years ago about a BIL through her side of the family that is very obnoxious. He called DW up and said he and his now-girlfriend were coming for a nephew's wedding, and expected us to pick them up at the airport (a long drive in terrible traffic), drive them around to entertain them, stay at our house for a bunch of days, etc. After DW said NO, other relatives of hers he then hit on said "NO" after they heard we repulsed him. So he did not attend, and the wedding did without his obnoxious BS 24/7.

 

[Chuckanut]

So, BIL "told" us he and his DW are visiting us for EIGHT days around Thanksgiving, flying in from CA. I've known the two of them for 42 years (I met them before I met my DW), but I don't want them doing this. Beyond dealing with COVID-19, we're supposed to pick them up from the airport and drive them around, plus have them stay at our house.

I have a problem

My sister (the nurse practioner biker) wants to come for Thanksgiving. She actually called me and stated she wasn't having people over. She 'could call friends but wanted to go to family first'. Here's my problem: she never socially distanced, just started wearing masks when not at home, and eats meat. We are vegetarian or vegan, will do a 5k, and not mix outside our pod. Yes it's large (10 people) but it's been just us for 7 months.

In a normal year I could ask her ... but i know she'll bring her son, his girlfriend, a few others. So that makes it our pod + 6

It would appear there is also an epidemic of Crazy Makers making its way through the lives of many people. You may wish to read this article:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/counseling-keys/201403/how-handle-crazymaker

Crazymaking is when a person sets you up to lose, as in the examples above: You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You’re put in lose-lose situations, but too many games are being played for you to reason yourself out of it. There is no rhyme, reason, or emotional understanding with a crazymaker. Worse, when the behavior is stealthy and confusing, it becomes easy to feel crazy. It feels like you’re caught in a whirlwind of chaos, with the life force being sucked from you as you are manipulated with nonstop crazymaking tactics.

 

[Aerides]

So, BIL "told" us he and his DW are visiting us for EIGHT days around Thanksgiving, flying in from CA... Beyond dealing with COVID-19, we're supposed to pick them up from the airport and drive them around, plus have them stay at our house.

This would make me shudder in non-covid times.

"Sorry, no, we can't. I hope you understand. Happy Holidays!"

 

[statsman]

This would make me shudder in non-covid times.

"Sorry, no, we can't. I hope you understand. Happy Holidays!"

That would be my response, but DW can't seem to do it. And usually we've been told of these trips *after* the airline tickets have been paid for.

The only reason we didn't see them early November 2019 is because BIL's wife lost a family member and needed to fly to Canada to be with the family for a few weeks. The only reason we didn't see them late March 2020 is because of COVID-19. Both times, BIL rescheduled the flights, knowing it was the right thing to do (but boy, he really almost pushed it in March).

The only way I get out of this is by divorcing my DW of 36 years. At least our DD is on my side. Neither of us would have let it happen. At a minimum, it would have been "rent a car, stay at a hotel".

 

[pacergal]

This is only one of a number of factors that almost certainly will increase the spread of Covid in the coming months, likely creating a huge spike.

When you combine Covid fatigue with closer proximity of people due to colder weather, the return of many kids to school, and the inability of many families to resist getting together for the holidays, the outlook isn't pretty.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong in my outlook.

I agree. Even if the entire country started wearing masks religiously, I think it would take a few months to get the numbers down consistently.
I believe we are in for a long, hard winter, possibly into spring.
I'll go hide in my burrow, see you next summer!!

 

[retire-early]

We made a stock-up run to Walmart today.
We are set for toilet paper for at least six months.
We have enough rubbing alcohol.

Bought another jug of laundry detergent.
Bought some more peanut butter.

The only things we would need on a constant basis are produce and other perishable food.

No visitors for Thanksgiving. My sister is staying put in Maine.

 

[Calico]

Time to hibernate (even more than usual)

Having watched the case numbers growing more quickly around here recently, and watching them grow exponentially higher elsewhere in the country, last weekend I did a huge grocery shopping pickup order. I also ordered a bunch of paper products and other non-perishables from Amazon.

Between the undercurrent of panic beginning to bubble up; the history of hoarding in my area in the early days of the pandemic; and the Thanksgiving holiday coming with all its usual food shopping, I decided better safe than sorry.

I am well stocked for everything into the new year now. The only thing I will need to replenish before then is cat food, and I buy that by the case from Amazon - they have never been short of supply. Also fresh fruit and veggies, but if necessary I can turn to the canned supply I bought back in the spring. It would not be my first choice, but beggars can't be choosers.

Many of my (now virtual) coworkers have been discussing their plans to get together as usual with their large families over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Some are planning to travel a long distance to do this, visiting with several households at once. I anticipate that the cases will rise exponentially around here, too, between Thanksgiving and the first few weeks in the new year.

I will live my squirrel-like existence: living off the provisions I put away for winter.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/70/a2/3270a236109a8ffe322c484b3883b7c1.gif

 

[audreyh1]

Many of my (now virtual) coworkers have been discussing their plans to get together as usual with their large families over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Some are planning to travel a long distance to do this, visiting with several households at once. I anticipate that the cases will rise exponentially around here, too, between Thanksgiving and the first few weeks in the new year.

Why do people not understand that this is a very, very bad idea?

 

[RAE]

Why do people not understand that this is a very, very bad idea?

Michigan just announced a series of new restrictions related to COVID. Indoor gatherings are restricted to no more than two different households, for the next three weeks. I expect that this will not go over well with a lot of folks who were planning family get-togethers for Thanksgiving (but I also understand why the governor felt it was necessary). Lots of other new restrictions as well. Here is a link:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/he...wn-shutdown-high-schools-colleges/6305432002/

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but Thanksgiving gatherings were brought up, so I thought this might be of interest to some.

 

[Walt34]

Why do people not understand that this is a very, very bad idea?

Because they're stupid. Or they think the laws of biology and physics are not applicable to them, which is pretty much the same thing. I have some relatives like that.

The glimmer of hope on the horizon is that at the moment development of vaccines looks promising and life will be back to normal within a year.

 

[travelover]

Michigan just announced a series of new restrictions related to COVID. Indoor gatherings are restricted to no more than two different households, for the next three weeks. I expect that this will not go over well with a lot of folks who were planning family get-togethers for Thanksgiving (but I also understand why the governor felt it was necessary). Lots of other new restrictions as well. Here is a link:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/he...wn-shutdown-high-schools-colleges/6305432002/

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but Thanksgiving gatherings were brought up, so I thought this might be of interest to some.

Similarly in Washington - indoor gatherings restricted to families of same household unless everyone is quarantined for 14 days or 7 days with negative test. Sad, but it would be nice to be here next Thanksgiving.

 

[easysurfer]

Why do people not understand that this is a very, very bad idea?

My take is the same reason why people have to go outside and drive in a blizzard when all the news stations say stay home.

I was invited to visit my brother and his family for Thanksgiving (invited by his wife). I tactfully said, under these circumstances, I'm playing things safe and just staying home. Though I did offer to join in remotely via tech with Zoom (I read, no time limit this year on Turkey day) or skype.

I don't need to dive into a flood to know the water my kill me (or somebody else, in this case) .

 

[mpeirce]

I talked with my sister today. We had talked previously about visiting them for Thanksgiving - a long standing tradition. But that was before the recent uptick in cases here.

She asked me what we were thinking and I said "we're thinking of bailing" and she replied "I'm so glad, we were thinking that same thing, but had invited you already".

We did committed Thanksgiving at her house next year!

 

[Badger]

The glimmer of hope on the horizon is that at the moment development of vaccines looks promising and life will be back to normal within a year.

I agree that it is a glimmer but not so much for normal within a year. If people continue to behave as they have been and don't stay home or at least social distance AND wear a mask PROPERLY over mouth AND nose the vaccine will not be available fast enough to turn things around within a year. IF the vaccines work as the initial tests indicate and IF there are no significant short and long term side effects (long term data will not be available for quite some time) and IF they are able to step up production to immunize over 300 million Americans within that time line then it will still be more than a year before we are covered. I imagine the drug companies will also be providing the vaccine to other nations as well. Production for so many people will be a challenge. Even so, we don't know how long the vaccine will last and if this will need to be an annual immunization.

Normal is still a long way off. I'm going to continue to hunker down and do my part to safeguard my family and friends.


Cheers!

 

[audreyh1]

Canada Thanksgiving was Oct 12, and they are seeing a related surge.

Will this year’s Thanksgiving gatherings lead to more viral spread in the U.S.? For a decent prediction, we need only look to our friends to the north, as Canada celebrated its version of Thanksgiving almost exactly a month ago, on Oct. 12. While Canada was already on an upward trajectory for COVID-19 even before Thanksgiving, several Canadian experts told me that, yes, the holiday almost definitely made things even worse.

https://time.com/5910635/thanksgiving-covid-19/

Canadians are having a hard time resisting in person family gatherings too.

 

[Dtail]

Possibly another decision coming will be if your friends refuse to take the vaccine, will one still hang out with them?

 

[Ready]

We made plans to have a group of three friends join us for Thanksgiving, but we decided to cancel those plans today. All three friends understood completely.

We live in a community that has largely ignored the virus and continued on with business as usual day to day activities. A lockdown starts tomorrow. It will not go over well.

I think many people choose to ignore the pandemic until it affects them or someone they know personally and they see how devastating it can be. Oddly, I still have yet to know a single person who has contracted the virus. But I remain very cautious about my surroundings.

 

[ckelly78z]

We don't have our TG plans nailed down yet. My wife, and I will be fixing the traditional turkey/stuffing/mashed potatoes/etc meal for ourselves, and whoever else wants to come. We usually have about 10-12, but this year, I imagine it will only be us, and the kids with their spouses.

My parents (both 79), and her parents (82/76) will probably opt to stay home.

 

[dixonge]

Earlier this year my father (89) was stating that no matter what he would be going to my brother's house for Turkey day this year. This was definitely COVID-fatigue talking. His penalty would be a 2-week quarantine inside his room in the assisted living facility, but he considered the trade-off worth it.


Since then, there have been 2-3 facility-wide quarantine periods, where *everyone* is restricted to their rooms, due to someone on staff or another resident contracting COVID. They are under quarantine right now as a matter of fact. These quarantines, plus my dad's youngest brother (86) just passing away from COVID have changed his mind. Hopefully we'll have next year!

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Our usual holiday routine is DMIL comes to us for Thanksgiving, and we go to her place for Yule, as she's really the only family in the area, and we hers. She's clamoring to do something, so we've told her that if we can rent or buy an outdoor patio heater, we might do a socially-distanced day visit and meal outside for one of those holidays, depending on the weather. And if it's not good, maybe we can drive down, chat for an hour or so (or as long as we can stand it, basically) outside, and drive back.

Actually, I just found out that we're going down to visit her for Yule, not TG. Seems riskier to me to take a chance on the weather then, but she likes to make a big deal about Yule, so apparently that was her preference. My spouse is very skittish about driving in snow, they usually want to stay home any time there's the slightest flurry, but whatever. We're ordering TG dinner from Founding Farmers....including cocktails! I'm looking forward to that. :-9

 

[Philliefan33]

We had scaled back our traditional Thanksgiving of “everyone at our house, bring anyone who wants to come” to just DH and I driving to my parents in a neighboring state.

Last weekend my mom and I agreed that even the small gathering is not a good idea this year. I am afraid of bringing the virus to them, and she is afraid of giving it to us and having us pass it to our pregnant DD.

It will be just DH and I here, with video chats to the various households that we will be missing. It makes me sad. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday and I love a big, loud gathering. But I will get over being sad, and being sad is much better than grief or guilt if we gathered and passed around the virus.

 

[neihn]

Possibly another decision coming will be if your friends refuse to take the vaccine, will one still hang out with them?

Probably not.

 

[Jerry1]

Possibly another decision coming will be if your friends refuse to take the vaccine, will one still hang out with them?

Probably not.

That doesn’t make sense. If you’ve taken the vaccine, why would you be concerned about being around people who haven’t? The vaccine isn’t like a mask, where you have it to primarily protect others. It protects you. Am I missing something?

 

[JoeWras]

It isn't just refusal. Remember, this vaccine roll out will take time. I'm in the lowest priority group. Will my friends shun me since I won't have the vaccine?

Let's all take a breath...