Lessons from My First Year of Retirement

[deserat]

I find that in order to maintain the contrast, it's useful to never forget what it was like to be an employee.

This brings up some interesting questions:
• how can someone appreciate money if they've never been without it?
• how can someone appreciate being a business owner if they've never been an employee?
• how can someone appreciate being a homeowner if they've never been a tenant?

I have distant relatives who have never been without money, never been an employee, and never been a tenant. Oddly, they don't seem overly thrilled with their relatively privileged status. On the contrary, they seem quite adept at finding ways to make themselves miserable.

This 10000X. That is why I try to maximize my life experiences so I am able to better judge or compare things/experiences/situations/places/ideas/etc.

A large part of this discussion has been about relative perceptions. I'm an engineer, so won't talk about relative positions unless absolute zero is understood, however, if that has been established, then the larger range of relative positions can give great depth to one's life and aid (hopefully) in better decision making.

I had said to a friend of mine one time that in order to appreciate the 'highs' in life, one has to have had some 'lows.' Your relatives can't appreciate their position because they've never had to be without what they have. It's the water in their fish bowl....

 

[Jakob]

Lessons from the First Year of Retirement

Hello ER Eddie,
I really appreciate the post. You hit on a lot of topics that I’ve been thinking about. I am not yet retired but considered retiring at 62YO. One of the topics you mentioned is a big consideration for me. That is, engaging in meaningful activities. I do have hobbies that I would like to explore more deeply. Such as, musical instruments and community service. I have worked in the healthcare system for 30 years and I would like to continue some humanitarian service. What speaks most loudly to me is the ability to structure my time and using that time purposefully. As you stated in your post, that may not be for everyone. And I get that. But for me it would be important. Currently I am off work due to COVID-19 and a health-blip. All is good. And I feel in better shape than I have in 20 years. Thanks for the post.

 

[Kroeran]

The fundamental problem is how to fill the hours.

Like the highschool graduate who keeps showing up at highschool parties, the college grad who keeps getting more degrees or never finishes that thesis, most will be tempted to solve the problem of too many hours with a return to what they know.

Back at my office, the retired guys coming back would get thankless projects nobody wanted to do, it was not a pretty picture, so I left in a manner that closed off post retirement contracts, which I came to slightly regret.

I registered with the contract agencies in town but it never led to anything.

I observed that retired professionals had some success as real estate agents, suggesting that self employed commission sales could work. I had some experience investing in sub prime real estate lending, saw what the brokers did, so got my mortgage broker license and made some failed efforts.

The split life of the Snowbirding lifestyle blocked that and other things. I had at least two firm professional gigs in Florida that got awkwardly blocked at the last step due to me being Canadian, notwithstanding NAFTA treaty provision for my profession having the right to work in the US.

I started looking into online gigs.

A big part of my job was analysis and editing, so I joined the Cactus marketplace of contracts to edit academic papers written by non English speakers. It was fascinating, but yielded only a couple of dollars per hour at my speed level. Could work for someone who built up to high speed who lived in a very low cost country, or who didn’t care about low pay.

None of this was sad or depressing. There is no money pressure and I enjoyed the novelty and learning of each new experience.

I started to accept that I was not going to find a use for my professional education or training. There was no way to cure the snowbird aspect given Canadian winters and a widowed mother back in Canada.

In Florida I had a chance to observe all the varieties of how retired people filled their time. One category was comparatively rich persons who took relatively menial but social, minimum wage jobs. This stretched my thinking of possibilities.

When Uber became insurable but not totally legal in my town I was fascinated by the new technology and the economics of it. My wife was appalled that I was considering becoming a taxi driver. The flexible schedule worked on many levels including that you could do it seasonally.

It eventually became boring but the three summers I did it were a blast. It was social heroin, like those conversations you have on planes but speed dating intensity. It did start to become less fun, the financials worked less well, my car aged out and darling wife did not want the new car stunk up with strangers. I might have gone back to it this summer if not for the pandemic. Sitting in the car was not a health positive.

One thing that does work is renting out idle empty real estate. VRBO and Airbnb. I created an apartment section off in our Canadian house. We have driveway tenants. My mothers vacant condo in the winter, the parking spot and storage unit that sat empty for a decade, all get rented.

[more to follow]

 

[tb001]

Thanks Eddie.

I’m in my 6th month and totally lost of what to do with my time. Retired in December with plans to visit and travel but then I remembered I have kids still young that require my attention. So waiting to see how the school will begin in August.

I too left at the end of December with young kids at home. I didn’t have plans to travel, but I also never planned to become a preschool teacher, which has basically become my new job. Not having the kids in school has definitely meant a change in my expectations, but it’s also meant I have way more time to enjoy their company. So while part of me is totally antsy with all the stuff I want to do, I’m more and more appreciating that I now have plenty of time to do it ‘tomorrow’ and my time right now with the kids I can’t get back. DD theoretically starts kindergarten in the fall, so I’m trying make the summer count. Just a different perspective. ‘Retiring’ with young kids is very different than a typical retirement.

 

[Willers]

Interesting post, thanks! My experience after 4+ years of retirement


1. Hey, an economic collapse. Neat. - the market dropped 10% the month after I gave my notice. That was a good lesson to keep my AA where I could weather a drop easily. At the end of last year we were up enough that I went to a rising glide path plan since SORR was really our only risk (other than the asteroid and civil war). Sleeping like a baby now.

2. I figured out when I’m going back to work: never - yup

3. I significantly underestimated my expenses - We're the opposite. I'm having a hard time spending anything above 60% of what FireCalc says I can. I thought we'd spend so much more. I guess I need to spend more time on the Blow That Dough thread.

4. The honeymoon lasted about 6 to 9 months - my true honeymoon, as you describe it, lasted about 4 months. I had a very high stress job at a challenged business so I literally did little but reading and working out for those first few months. It was like being reborn (yeah, that sounds corny but it is a pretty good description)

5. I needed “meaningful work” sooner than I expected - thought that would be me. I was always thought I'd need that, but then I joined our HOA to get involved. All of the memories of drama and corporate politics came rushing back. I can't wait until my term is over. Maybe I'll volunteer for a social organization at some point, but I'm in no hurry.

6. The lure of social media - Overall, yuk. I retired just before the 2016 election season heated up and I couldn't believe the hate projected from people I thought were reasonable. I deleted all of my Facebook friends and now only participate in a few forums, while avoiding any "ideology threads" like the COVID one on this forum. The less time I'm on any SM platform the happier I seem to be. IMHO everyone would be better off if they walked over and talked to a neighbor instead of arguing with strangers on the internet about who the "good" and "bad" people are.

 

[Boose]

Eddie, thank you so much for your update - food for thought, as we sound like we are of similar temperament. I'm treating my COVID-19 "emergency worker" reassignment (working a call center for senior meal delivery, from my laptop at home) as a dry run for retirement next year. I see that I desperately need to get away from the computer and do some physical work every day, whether at home or in the community. Living in a high-rise condo, which has been great during tiring full-time employment, doesn't offer many options for home activities like gardening and fixit projects. It's just as well that we're planning to sell and move somewhere with more room after we give notice. Until then, I am a loyal public servant for my county...

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I find that in order to maintain the contrast, it's useful to never forget what it was like to be an employee.

This brings up some interesting questions:
• how can someone appreciate money if they've never been without it?
• how can someone appreciate being a business owner if they've never been an employee?
• how can someone appreciate being a homeowner if they've never been a tenant?

I have distant relatives who have never been without money, never been an employee, and never been a tenant. Oddly, they don't seem overly thrilled with their relatively privileged status. On the contrary, they seem quite adept at finding ways to make themselves miserable.

"For sleep, riches, and health to be truly enjoyed, they must be interrupted." -Jean Paul Richter, writer (1763-1825)

 

[hanginthere]

Lessons from the First Year of Retirement

I’m approaching my one-year retirement anniversary, so I thought I’d share the main lessons I’ve learned. If you’re approaching retirement, you might find some of this helpful. If you’ve already retired, maybe you’ll relate to some of this, or perhaps your experience has been different.

1. Hey, an economic collapse. Neat.

The economy went into a tailspin 9 months after I retired. After only 9 months, my retirement felt like a newborn baby, and baby was getting smacked around pretty early in life.

But, as it turns out, economic catastrophes aren’t so catastrophic after all. At least so far. The world is burning, but I’m doing okay. Sing along now: “It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.”

2. I figured out when I’m going back to work: never

Approaching retirement, in the back of my mind, I had a fallback option of turning retirement into a “gap year” or two, if it didn’t pan out. That is, I thought that I might choose to return to part-time work, after a year or two’s hiatus. That wasn’t the plan, but it was a failsafe option.

I wondered, “What if I miss the intellectual stimulation or challenge of work? What if I miss interacting with smart people in my profession? What if I can’t find enough activities that feel meaningful and productive?”

Well, none of that happened. I am more intellectually stimulated and challenged now in retirement than I was at work. I occasionally miss some of the interaction with colleagues, but interactions in the workplace were narrow in scope, because of the professional roles and tasks. I interact with a wider range of smart people now, and I feel freer to express what I think about a variety of issues I’d never talk about at work. And I haven’t had any trouble finding meaningful things to do.

So, my career is over. It feels a little sad to say that, but also freeing. I don’t say it with any negativity. I never got “sick of” my job or anything like that. I always liked it at least a little. I just know that I’m done with it. My career is part of my past now. It’s in the rear-view mirror, and I’m not going back.

3. I significantly underestimated my expenses

I tracked spending before I retired, but I sort of half-assed it. I used old, limited data from a time when I was in “saving for retirement” mode.

When I actually retired, I ended up spending a lot more money than normal, especially in the first 6 months. I opened the spigot. I was celebrating. I bought whatever I felt like buying -- a bike, camping gear, a dog, some furniture, a ton of books and music, clothes, some stupid ****. Also, once I retired, I noticed a bunch of stuff that needed replacing or upgrading, which I’d been putting off while working.

Yearly expenses were $5000/yr. higher than expected. Not a lot in actual dollar terms, but looked at as a percentage, that’s 15% higher than what I projected (38K vs. 33K/yr.). That’s not a problem – I jacked up my spending on purpose, and I’ve got plenty of headroom -- but it is substantially higher than what I estimated.

In retrospect, I think I unconsciously kept the estimates as low as I could, because by doing that, I could feel safer and more secure when pulling the plug.

We’ll see how this plays out over the next few years. I feel better now that I have a more realistic estimate of my spending. And I take some comfort knowing that I can dial back expenses 15% if I need to.

However, if you’re approaching retirement, be aware you might tend to underestimate expenses, just like I did.

4. The honeymoon lasted about 6 to 9 months

I was very happy in retirement for the first 6 to 9 months. Gradually, though, that feeling ebbed, and eventually, I returned to my baseline levels of happiness.

I think it’s called hedonic adaptation. If I remember right, most people who win the lottery are back to baseline levels of happiness in about 6 to 12 months, and so are most people diagnosed with cancer. So, it’s not surprising that something similar happens with retirement. We adjust to changes. Retirement becomes “the new normal.”

One distinction, though: If you ask me whether I’m more satisfied with my life now that I’m retired, I’d say “Yes, absolutely.” I’m just saying my day-to-day mood is not all that much better than it was before I retired. Probably a little.

So, just be aware that retirement doesn’t put a permanent smile on your face. If my experience is any gauge, you’ll have a honeymoon period where everything feels great, and then you’ll gradually return to baseline. You might feel a little better on a day-to-day basis, but don’t expect huge changes.

Two caveats:

1. I always enjoyed my work (at least somewhat), and I had already been working in a very easy part-time schedule for years prior to retirement, so I didn’t experience what many people here do -- a miserable/stressful work life, contrasted with the blissful release of retirement. If you have the latter, I’ll bet your honeymoon period will be more enjoyable and long-lasting.

2. It’s possible that the virus and economic collapse took a little wind out of my sails. That might be a factor, too. It’s hard to say.

I don’t want to leave the impression that I’m unhappy in retirement. Not at all. I’m enjoying my retirement and have no regrets.

5. I needed “meaningful work” sooner than I expected

Once, on another retirement forum, I got blasted for suggesting that people need a sense of meaning/purpose in retirement. Some guy got really pissed with me for saying so, and despite my assurances that if it didn’t apply to him, never mind, he continued to rant and rave about it in all caps. Apparently, some people get very upset with the suggestion that having a sense of meaning in life is important.

So, if this doesn’t fit for you, junk it. I’m talking about me. I’m not talking about what you or anyone else “should” do. I’m just speaking for myself.

I need a sense of meaning and purpose in life. That doesn’t mean I need to be engaged in meaningful activities all the time or even most of the time. I can fart around and waste time with the best of them, and I spend plenty of time just resting, relaxing, and doing nothing in particular. No problem with that.

However, at the end of the day (or life), I need to also feel like I did something meaningful with some of my time. I can’t just fart around all day, every day, and feel good about myself. I’m not wired that way.

So, I knew that part of what happy retirement meant for me was to eventually find “meaningful work.” By that I don’t mean paid employment – I mean an enjoyable project that uses my skills/knowledge and that also, hopefully, makes the world a little better place, even in a small, minor way. My career supplied some of that, so I knew that eventually, I’d need to find something else that scratched that itch.

I didn’t expect to feel that need for a couple years into retirement, though. It was way down my priority list, when planning. I had other sources of meaning (e.g., learning, growth, taking care of animals, etc.) which were more important to me than my career, so I didn’t think I’d feel the need for “meaningful work” right away.

And I didn’t. For the first six months of retirement, I wanted nothing to do with anything that even remotely resembled “w*rk.” Yuck. I just wanted to do whatever I felt like doing, day to day. I wanted to be completely free and unencumbered.

However, after about six months, I felt the need asserting itself. I’ve pondered and experimented quite a bit, and I’m still experimenting, but blogging is working out well for me so far. It’s a good fit for me. I get absorbed in it; the subject (animal afterlife) feels worthwhile to me, and I feel better after doing it.

I am usually able to keep a pretty good balance, where I work on it a couple hours a day, then have the rest of the day “free.” If I go for long stretches (which I can do sometimes, because I lose track of time), I will take a break for as long as I need. I want it to stay enjoyable and not turn into a “job” or an obligation.

So, for anyone who’s like me, the issue of meaningful work may pop up sooner than you expect. It has been a significant piece of the puzzle for me.

6. The lure of social media

I’m single, don’t have a family to occupy my time, and I’m not into watching TV or movies, travel, going to sporting events etc.. So, now that I am retired and don’t have a career, I have a ton of free time. I like it that way – lots of freedom, peace, and spaciousness. But along with that comes the temptation to waste that time on social media.

Social media has its upsides, of course, but the downsides are pernicious and covert. I have to keep an eye on my consumption, or I end up wasting too much time and energy on it. I’ve been aware of the problem for many years, but retirement has made it more salient, because of all the increased free time. I have to keep an eye on it.

For example, it’s very easy for me to go on a Facebook or Reddit group and spend an hour reading threads and making posts. Then I get sucked into discussions that don’t amount to a hill of beans. On Youtube, it’s very easy to spend a lot of time scrolling through the recommendations or subscriptions. News/politics in particular are very toxic and distracting.

So, in retirement, I’ve had to become pretty vigilant about my use of social media. If I’m not careful, I can end up wasting too much of my time and energy on it, and my life suffers. It may sound like a trivial thing, but it has a huge impact on the quality of my day to day life.


------

So, those are my main lessons from the first year of retirement. I learned some other things, but they only pertain to me, not others, so I’ll leave them out. Hopefully, you found something to relate to or some food for thought. Cheers.

Gee you sound like me. Next month will be my 2yr er. Occasionally miss it but when I see how miserable my former colleagues are I get fine. I agree find something meaningful. Its the guy who turns into a couch potato who dies soon. And stay off social media. Expressing your opinion is not kosher these day and and just wasted karma.

 

[hanginthere]

I agree with you and Gazelle. Would love to do volunteer work but you must be truly passionate about it. Spent my career in the medical field mainly servicing lower socio-economic groups which can become depressing at times but a lot of volunteer work involves just that. Would enjoy working with kids who are desperate for hope but the restraints that are placed upon you are a disgrace.

 

[Perryinva]

Maybe what I bolded is the difference.

I did not feel "relief" at retirement. I felt like "I have completed a good career, well done". I do not need anything beyond that knowledge.

I like to build things, and for me the satisfaction of what I have built remains every time I view it. My plans, my handiwork - the object might be 40 years old, but I still feel the same satisfaction at completing it, and how it is still being used and enjoyed.

I completed a career that I never expected to have, was paid way more than I expected for a job that was more a hobby than work, gave my family a good life through it, and left behind items that people are still using to do their job and be productive. That type of satisfaction (or "high") never fades.

Our different views may just be based on different attitudes about our careers.

Interesting perspective. I was sad to leave my career, but quite glad to have the opportunity to enjoy more younger retirement years than many/most that retired with me. Bittersweet. The things I engineered and built were often still used and favored even 35 years later. I loved that. On the flip side, I also had to watch work that I toiled and was proud of and worked better than anyone expected to, get demolished even just 10 years later, once the bean counters got what they wanted out of it. Heck, one project was demolished and sold for scrap a year later! In retirement, my hobby is also a side hustle where the demand for restored vintage gear bas been consistent. I don’t need the money, but if someone wants to pay me to have fun, then I’m all for it. So I think I also need a meaningful purpose in retirement. And I also agree with the “unfortunately the end is really close” attitude. I’m not depressed about it, but it is way more real now (especially since both parents and some friends passed away) that I have been retired a full year and it literally flew by. I always wanted to cycle around the US, since the Bikecentennial in 1976, & It dawned on me that is never going to happen. Just commonsense stuff like that.

 

[ER Eddie]

I find that in order to maintain the contrast, it's useful to never forget what it was like to be an employee.

This brings up some interesting questions:
• how can someone appreciate money if they've never been without it?
• how can someone appreciate being a business owner if they've never been an employee?
• how can someone appreciate being a homeowner if they've never been a tenant?

I have distant relatives who have never been without money, never been an employee, and never been a tenant. Oddly, they don't seem overly thrilled with their relatively privileged status. On the contrary, they seem quite adept at finding ways to make themselves miserable.

Yeah, I've enjoyed re-stoking that contrast effect a little, by (for example) reviewing a list I made of reasons to retire. I listed most of the negatives about work, and reading about them helps me remember.

It's strange. Even though it's only been a year, it feels like another world now.

I keep a journal, so I can also re-stoke the contrast effect by reading old entries -- e.g., times when I was going through stressful periods at work.

Another method is to meet up with old work colleagues. They invariably talk about stress and dysfunction in the workplace. A lot of their brain pan is filled with that stuff. I always leave those conversations feeling glad I'm out. I don't give a moment's thought to any of that stuff anymore.

Maybe what I bolded is the difference.

I did not feel "relief" at retirement. I felt like "I have completed a good career, well done". I do not need anything beyond that knowledge.

I like to build things, and for me the satisfaction of what I have built remains every time I view it. My plans, my handiwork - the object might be 40 years old, but I still feel the same satisfaction at completing it, and how it is still being used and enjoyed.

I completed a career that I never expected to have, was paid way more than I expected for a job that was more a hobby than work, gave my family a good life through it, and left behind items that people are still using to do their job and be productive. That type of satisfaction (or "high") never fades.

Our different views may just be based on different attitudes about our careers.

Nope, but that's a good perspective. I feel similarly about my own career, maybe a little less positive, but overall, I take pride and satisfaction in what I accomplished, and I know I made the world a little better. I only mentioned the "relief" angle because someone else talked about it earlier in the thread (he described it as removing a thumbtack from your rear end). It's the flip side of the "high," but it's the same principle.

Like you say, that feeling of "satisfaction over a job well done" does not fade with time. Right, and that's the difference I'm pointing to. An enduring feeling of satisfaction isn't the same as the "high" I'm talking about. The feeling you're referencing existed long before you even retired, and it will continue to exist as long as you're alive. The temporary "high" I'm talking about happens specifically because of the change from work to retirement, and it derives from the contrast between those two conditions. The job or life satisfaction you're talking about doesn't. So, we're just talking about two different things.

My guess is that you didn't experience much of the "high" I'm describing, and so you're finding it hard to understand what I'm talking about. It's like the engineer said above -- the contrast depends on your starting point. If your job and life satisfaction was already high, you aren't going to experience the *bump* necessary for a high (or alternately, for a big sense of relief).

That's a good thing. The "high" is temporary. It's a function of change, of contrast, and of the brain's adaptation to change over time. But really, it's enduring life satisfaction that matters.

This is a very imperfect analogy, but you might think of it as akin to the difference between the intense rush of "falling in love" -- with the chemical soup you are bathed in (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, all the hormones) -- compared to the enduring enjoyment and satisfaction of a great long-term relationship. The first always fades -- because that's just how the brain works -- but the second continues (or rather, can continue).

This is my fear too. Glad to hear you found it unfounded. In what ways are you more intellectually stimulated now? What are you doing?

Mm. Lots of things. I'll list them, because I like lists, lol.

1. Reading. Lots of reading. Some pretty heavy subjects. Atheism, Christianity, intelligent design, stoicism, the afterlife, psychology. I've always been a reader, but when I was working, a lot of my brain pan was taken up with work-related stuff. I've been reading a lot more, now that I'm retired.

2. OLLI. I now consider OLLI a "must" for any city I would choose to live in retirement (unless they had something else equivalent). Unfortunately, this has been shutdown lately.

3. There's a progressive (?) Christianity book discussion group I attend. It can be stimulating, and some of the reading has really helped clarify things for me. Unfortunately, this is shutdown at the moment.

4. Reviewing and reinforcing my own old ideas, which I've forgotten. I do this through journals. Part of my intellectual stimulation is just reminding myself of thing I've learned but forgotten.

5. Podcasts.

6. I talked about the lure of social media, but there are intellectually stimulating groups out there, too. I've interacted with some pretty interesting and smart people on various platforms -- and plenty of dumb ones, too, lol, but that's stimulating in its own way.

7. Making new friends. This is easier in retirement than when working. I'm just beginning, and it's hard with the shutdown, but meeting new people is always intellectually or at least socially-emotionally stimulating.

8. I'm able to do more writing about subjects that interest me. When I worked, all my writing energy was channeled into my career. Now that energy is freed up, and I'm enjoying the process of writing and blogging.

Overall, I'd say that intellectual stimulation feels much more available to me now than it did when I was working. When I was working, the intellectual stimulation was definitely there, but it was channeled in a pretty narrow and consistent way. I would pursue other interests outside of work, but most of my best mental energy was expended on work projects.

Now that I'm retired, my mind is free to go wherever it wants, and to spend all that energy on whatever interests me. It's also much more flexible. If something becomes boring, I can just shift to something else.

I'm definitely a believer in lifelong learning, so that's an essential piece of retirement for me.

Hello ER Eddie,
I really appreciate the post. You hit on a lot of topics that I’ve been thinking about. I am not yet retired but considered retiring at 62YO. One of the topics you mentioned is a big consideration for me. That is, engaging in meaningful activities. I do have hobbies that I would like to explore more deeply. Such as, musical instruments and community service. I have worked in the healthcare system for 30 years and I would like to continue some humanitarian service. What speaks most loudly to me is the ability to structure my time and using that time purposefully. As you stated in your post, that may not be for everyone. And I get that. But for me it would be important. Currently I am off work due to COVID-19 and a health-blip. All is good. And I feel in better shape than I have in 20 years. Thanks for the post.

You're welcome. I'm sure you'll find something meaningful to do in retirement -- sounds like you've already got plenty of experience and some ideas to explore.

I'll just throw this in, without knowing whether it applies to you. After 30 years in healthcare, some people who retire need a time period where they can just focus on themselves -- taking care of themselves, getting themselves healthy, recharging, or just enjoying things. Healthcare can be a stressful industry to work in, and it's constant focus on what other people or the system needs. I worked in that industry myself. I know lots of people who are great caretakers of others, but who tend to neglect their own feelings and needs.

If that fits you at all, make sure to allow plenty of time to just relax and do whatever you feel like doing. Shrug off guilt about not being "productive." Don't buy into messages about what you "should" be doing with your time. Don't worry about doing meaningful work or service for a while. Just let yourself relax and enjoy the freedom of retirement -- of not HAVING to do anything for anyone else or for some hospital system.

You're obviously a service-oriented person, so that need will arise naturally, when you are ready. But give yourself plenty of time and permission to just relax, unwind, and enjoy not having to do anything.

 

[hanginthere]

I guess my only disappointment with ER, I have a disability and pretty much knew I would qualify for the insurance but preferred to work but when we were bought out started drawing. Its generous but assumed I would have a little left to continue to invest which I enjoy doing. Wrong. Really goes. P&C in my state alone is a disgrace. But some months dont have to draw and can just reinvest the payout.

 

[omni550]

Yeah, I've enjoyed re-stoking that contrast effect a little, by (for example) reviewing a list I made of reasons to retire. I listed most of the negatives about work, and reading about them helps me remember.

It's strange. Even though it's only been a year, it feels like another world now.

I keep a journal, so I can also re-stoke the contrast effect by reading old entries -- e.g., times when I was going through stressful periods at work.

Another method is to meet up with old work colleagues. They invariably talk about stress and dysfunction in the workplace. A lot of their brain pan is filled with that stuff. I always leave those conversations feeling glad I'm out. I don't give a moment's thought to any of that stuff anymore.



Nope, but that's a good perspective. I feel similarly about my own career, maybe a little less positive, but overall, I take pride and satisfaction in what I accomplished, and I know I made the world a little better. I only mentioned the "relief" angle because someone else talked about it earlier in the thread (he described it as removing a thumbtack from your rear end). It's the flip side of the "high," but it's the same principle.

Like you say, that feeling of "satisfaction over a job well done" does not fade with time. Right, and that's the difference I'm pointing to. An enduring feeling of satisfaction isn't the same as the "high" I'm talking about. The feeling you're referencing existed long before you even retired, and it will continue to exist as long as you're alive. The temporary "high" I'm talking about happens specifically because of the change from work to retirement, and it derives from the contrast between those two conditions. The job or life satisfaction you're talking about doesn't. So, we're just talking about two different things.

My guess is that you didn't experience much of the "high" I'm describing, and so you're finding it hard to understand what I'm talking about. It's like the engineer said above -- the contrast depends on your starting point. If your job and life satisfaction was already high, you aren't going to experience the *bump* necessary for a high (or alternately, for a big sense of relief).

That's a good thing. The "high" is temporary. It's a function of change, of contrast, and of the brain's adaptation to change over time. But really, it's enduring life satisfaction that matters.

This is a very imperfect analogy, but you might think of it as akin to the difference between the intense rush of "falling in love" -- with the chemical soup you are bathed in (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, all the hormones) -- compared to the enduring enjoyment and satisfaction of a great long-term relationship. The first always fades -- because that's just how the brain works -- but the second continues (or rather, can continue).



Mm. Lots of things. I'll list them, because I like lists, lol.

1. Reading. Lots of reading. Some pretty heavy subjects. Atheism, Christianity, intelligent design, stoicism, the afterlife, psychology. I've always been a reader, but when I was working, a lot of my brain pan was taken up with work-related stuff. I've been reading a lot more, now that I'm retired.

2. OLLI. I now consider OLLI a "must" for any city I would choose to live in retirement (unless they had something else equivalent). Unfortunately, this has been shutdown lately.

3. There's a progressive (?) Christianity book discussion group I attend. It can be stimulating, and some of the reading has really helped clarify things for me. Unfortunately, this is shutdown at the moment.

4. Reviewing and reinforcing my own old ideas, which I've forgotten. I do this through journals. Part of my intellectual stimulation is just reminding myself of thing I've learned but forgotten.

5. Podcasts.

6. I talked about the lure of social media, but there are intellectually stimulating groups out there, too. I've interacted with some pretty interesting and smart people on various platforms -- and plenty of dumb ones, too, lol, but that's stimulating in its own way.

7. Making new friends. This is easier in retirement than when working. I'm just beginning, and it's hard with the shutdown, but meeting new people is always intellectually or at least socially-emotionally stimulating.

8. I'm able to do more writing about subjects that interest me. When I worked, all my writing energy was channeled into my career. Now that energy is freed up, and I'm enjoying the process of writing and blogging.

Overall, I'd say that intellectual stimulation feels much more available to me now than it did when I was working. When I was working, the intellectual stimulation was definitely there, but it was channeled in a pretty narrow and consistent way. I would pursue other interests outside of work, but most of my best mental energy was expended on work projects.

Now that I'm retired, my mind is free to go wherever it wants, and to spend all that energy on whatever interests me. It's also much more flexible. If something becomes boring, I can just shift to something else.

I'm definitely a believer in lifelong learning, so that's an essential piece of retirement for me.



You're welcome. I'm sure you'll find something meaningful to do in retirement -- sounds like you've already got plenty of experience and some ideas to explore.

I'll just throw this in, without knowing whether it applies to you. After 30 years in healthcare, some people who retire need a time period where they can just focus on themselves -- taking care of themselves, getting themselves healthy, recharging, or just enjoying things. Healthcare can be a stressful industry to work in, and it's constant focus on what other people or the system needs. I worked in that industry myself. I know lots of people who are great caretakers of others, but who tend to neglect their own feelings and needs.

If that fits you at all, make sure to allow plenty of time to just relax and do whatever you feel like doing. Shrug off guilt about not being "productive." Don't buy into messages about what you "should" be doing with your time. Don't worry about doing meaningful work or service for a while. Just let yourself relax and enjoy the freedom of retirement -- of not HAVING to do anything for anyone else or for some hospital system.

You're obviously a service-oriented person, so that need will arise naturally, when you are ready. But give yourself plenty of time and permission to just relax, unwind, and enjoy not having to do anything.

Hey, ER Eddie,

If you need an OLLI fix, the Univ. of Michigan OLLI is currently offering lectures online and they are free. Plus they've opened up their catalog of previously recorded OLLI lectures, for free, too.

OLLI-UM is free through August at which time they'll reassess.

You can sign up for their Daily OLLI email which lists the next few upcoming lectures with links to join.

(I'd include links but am writing this on my cell phone.)

omni

 

[ER Eddie]

Hey, ER Eddie,

If you need an OLLI fix, the Univ. of Michigan OLLI is currently offering lectures online and they are free. Plus they've opened up their catalog of previously recorded OLLI lectures, for free, too.

OLLI-UM is free through August at which time they'll reassess.

You can sign up for their Daily OLLI email which lists the next few upcoming lectures with links to join.

(I'd include links but am writing this on my cell phone.)

omni

Thanks, omni.

The thing I appreciate most about OLLI is the sense of community that develops, plus the in-person interactions with the teacher and fellow students. You can't really duplicate that via online courses. You can join some of them via webcams (which I don't have set up), but it's not the same, especially when it's someone else's OLLI.

Even though I listed OLLI in a response about intellectual stimulation, OLLI is probably more a social stimulation than an intellectual one, for me. The intellectual piece is there, but I can get that in any number of other places (Youtube lectures, online classes, etc.). It's the social community that makes it special, for me.

I appreciate the suggestion, though.

 

[bobbyr]

Great post. I wanted to compare my thoughts to these after I had been retired for a year. Some were the same, some were different:

1. Hey, an economic collapse. Neat. --> this reinforced my retirement plan, I saw even at the lowest levels it did not impact my retirement lifestyle from a financial perspective.

2. I figured out when I’m going back to work: never --> Agree.

3. I significantly underestimated my expenses -->it is the opposite for me, I overestimated our expenses and have spent a little more than a 3rd of what we planned.

4. The honeymoon lasted about 6 to 9 months --> I am still on the honeymoon, it is still fantastic to get up a be able to decide every day what I want to do, and I have a wide selection of options

5. I needed “meaningful work” sooner than I expected --> my meaningful work is whatever I choose to do.

6. The lure of social media --> I see "social media" as a trap I choose not to get wrapped up in. I want to maintain my mental and physical abilities, focusing on these keeps me away from social media.

We are all figuring out this retirement thing as we go along, the great news is that we are fortunate to be in this position in the first place, and that is what I keep focusing on.

I found myself agreeing with every one of these items and how you responded. I am one year in and quite happy.

 

[Sanstar]

I started listing what I won’t miss about work the last year of the job. It was a rare day I couldn’t add to it. 5 years later, I still pull it up (note on iPad) on occasion and get a chuckle from it as well as a profound sense of gratitude for being able to get to the other side of it.

 

[Pellice]

Interesting observations, ER Eddie!

Regarding the economic collapse - we are not yet able to look to the final stage of the pandemic and its effects. My financial adviser thinks that we are about 1/3 of the way "there," - meaning a readily available and effective vaccine - but he doesn't really know. This situation is so unprecedented. I felt wary enough to reduce my distribution for 2 months by about a third, but my FA is back to full speed ahead and my normal distribution in July.

I'm throwing in with the group where the honeymoon never ends. I do get the distinction you are making, but everytime I think about my situation, I end up smiling so broadly. Post-retirement is, honestly, delightful! Every time I make a to-do list it gets headed "Delicious Day [Date]" It's been 2 years, and I'm still feeling the joy.

One aspect that I think you and I have exchanged some remarks on earlier was the idea of "making a change." You would think that retiring in and of itself would be change enough for a while, but I find myself wishing for changes in all areas. I too had originally thought of moving, but am feeling less like that now, due to the sober realization that I will probably have to move again at some point due to getting old, so why move twice? But I want CHANGE. New window treatments, furniture, pots and pans, house plants. I didn't anticipate longing for so much change!

 

[Markola]

Interesting observations, ER Eddie!

Regarding the economic collapse - we are not yet able to look to the final stage of the pandemic and its effects. My financial adviser thinks that we are about 1/3 of the way "there," - meaning a readily available and effective vaccine - but he doesn't really know. This situation is so unprecedented. I felt wary enough to reduce my distribution for 2 months by about a third, but my FA is back to full speed ahead and my normal distribution in July.

I'm throwing in with the group where the honeymoon never ends. I do get the distinction you are making, but everytime I think about my situation, I end up smiling so broadly. Post-retirement is, honestly, delightful! Every time I make a to-do list it gets headed "Delicious Day [Date]" It's been 2 years, and I'm still feeling the joy.

One aspect that I think you and I have exchanged some remarks on earlier was the idea of "making a change." You would think that retiring in and of itself would be change enough for a while, but I find myself wishing for changes in all areas. I too had originally thought of moving, but am feeling less like that now, due to the sober realization that I will probably have to move again at some point due to getting old, so why move twice? But I want CHANGE. New window treatments, furniture, pots and pans, house plants. I didn't anticipate longing for so much change!

I feel the tug for change you describe as I wind up what could be my last real job in two weeks - just in time to be shut down from doing very much due to the pandemic! I like your Delicious Day list a lot. One thing I won’t do is go out and celebrate the end of my biweekly paychecks, as a lot of people seem to, by buying A NEW CAR. We might even get rid of the oldest one. I also hope I can avoid the fantasy of buying real estate I don’t need. For now, my 2020 Delicious List is going to be about building a fence, deck and patio. I can at least justify those expenses as investments we can enjoy, which will help me fill some time, and that will add a bit to home value.

 

[bobbyr]

One thing I won’t do is go out and celebrate the end of my biweekly paychecks, as a lot of people seem to, by buying A NEW CAR.

Likewise.

Everytime I think about updating our cars, I do a mental poll of what I really prefer and it always ends up being money in the bank (vs large purchases).

We have a 2013 and a 2015 vehicle(s) and they are doing just fine.

 

[Amethyst]

Well said.

I do take part in a few online discussions. Two are niche hobbies, where my input actually is valued, and one is a newspaper comments section, where I find people's reactions to my comments rather interesting. But I don't get caught up in arguments there, any more than I would in real life. Not worth the bother.

Facebook? Strictly for fun photos of people's kids, grandkids, pets, and hobbies.
I used to get travel ideas from a well-to-do friend's FB vacation photos, but even she is having to stay home these days!

Expressing your opinion is....just wasted karma.

 

[COcheesehead]

Well said.

I do take part in a few online discussions. Two are niche hobbies, where my input actually is valued, and one is a newspaper comments section, where I find people's reactions to my comments rather interesting. But I don't get caught up in arguments there, any more than I would in real life. Not worth the bother.

Facebook? Strictly for fun photos of people's kids, grandkids, pets, and hobbies.
I used to get travel ideas from a well-to-do friend's FB vacation photos, but even she is having to stay home these days!

I have found the best use of Facebook is participating in the groups. I have some odd interests like archeology and petroglyphs of the American west and sure enough there are private groups for these interests.

I find the private groups are more about sharing and less about trolling.

 

[hanginthere]

Keep it that way. A prof where I graduated was fired last week because of a comment on fb that was't considered pc and another one will probably go this week. A friend of mind gets kicked off fb regularly for poking his finger in the lefts eye but just comes back. Probably not worth your time.

 

[ER Eddie]

I'm throwing in with the group where the honeymoon never ends. I do get the distinction you are making, but everytime I think about my situation, I end up smiling so broadly. Post-retirement is, honestly, delightful! Every time I make a to-do list it gets headed "Delicious Day [Date]" It's been 2 years, and I'm still feeling the joy.

I've been reading about Introversion lately (Big Five, not MBTI), and I recognize that my personality may be playing a role here. What I mean is, Introverts are characterized by (among other things) low positive emotionality. That is, they experience less joy, enthusiasm, and excitement overall than extroverts do. That's a very reliable finding. It seems to have something to do with differential firing in the reward centers of their brains. It doesn't mean they experience more negative emotion (that's a different, independent factor, Neuroticism); just less positive.

I've taken probably 20 introversion-extroversion tests, and I always score very high on introversion or very low on extroversion. For example, I was at the 5th percentile on the Extroversion scale I took yesterday, meaning 95% of the population is more extroverted than I am.

I think personality is a factor here. I think my introversion (low positive emotionality) causes me to experience less joy, excitement, and enthusiasm for all sorts of things. I've noticed that characteristic in me for a long time. I just don't get the *charge* out things that most people do -- career achievement, marriage, family, nice home, buying stuff, big vacations, praise, attention, social status, etc. It's not that those things don't register; it's just that I don't get all that much of a kick from them.

I think this extends to my experience of retirement. I think some people are just predisposed to experience life with plenty of happiness and joy, and that's how they experience their retirement, too. That's just how they're wired. I'm wired the other way. I have less positive emotion. That was true before retirement, and it's true of retirement as well. So when people talk about retirement being a perpetual state of happiness, I don't get that; I can't relate. It's just not my experience.

So in addition to the external factors we've talked about before, I think personality (specifically introversion-extroversion) is probably a factor in the experience of retirement, too. To clarify again, I'm talking about Big 5 introversion, not MBTI, which is different. I say that because so many here identify themselves as introvert based on MBTI.

If other high-level Big 5 introverts are listening, there's a danger in getting your expectations unrealistically high, based on other people's experience of retirement. If your own experience doesn't match theirs, you can begin to wonder if there's something wrong with you or your retirement. That just adds unnecessary suffering.

I'm talking to myself, too. I'm reminding myself that I'm wired differently than most people, and so I shouldn't use their experiences as a yardstick to evaluate my own.

 

[bmcgonig]

I've been reading about Introversion lately (Big Five, not MBTI), and I recognize that my personality may be playing a role here. What I mean is, Introverts are characterized by (among other things) low positive emotionality. That is, they experience less joy, enthusiasm, and excitement overall than extroverts do. That's a very reliable finding. It seems to have something to do with differential firing in the reward centers of their brains. It doesn't mean they experience more negative emotion (that's a different, independent factor, Neuroticism); just less positive.

I've taken probably 20 introversion-extroversion tests, and I always score very high on introversion or very low on extroversion. For example, I was at the 5th percentile on the Extroversion scale I took yesterday, meaning 95% of the population is more extroverted than I am.

I think personality is a factor here. I think my introversion (low positive emotionality) causes me to experience less joy, excitement, and enthusiasm for all sorts of things. I've noticed that characteristic in me for a long time. I just don't get the *charge* out things that most people do -- career achievement, marriage, family, nice home, buying stuff, big vacations, praise, attention, social status, etc. It's not that those things don't register; it's just that I don't get all that much of a kick from them.

I think this extends to my experience of retirement. I think some people are just predisposed to experience life with plenty of happiness and joy, and that's how they experience their retirement, too. That's just how they're wired. I'm wired the other way. I have less positive emotion. That was true before retirement, and it's true of retirement as well. So when people talk about retirement being a perpetual state of happiness, I don't get that; I can't relate. It's just not my experience.

So in addition to the external factors we've talked about before, I think personality (specifically introversion-extroversion) is probably a factor in the experience of retirement, too. To clarify again, I'm talking about Big 5 introversion, not MBTI, which is different. I say that because so many here identify themselves as introvert based on MBTI.

If other high-level Big 5 introverts are listening, there's a danger in getting your expectations unrealistically high, based on other people's experience of retirement. If your own experience doesn't match theirs, you can begin to wonder if there's something wrong with you or your retirement. That just adds unnecessary suffering.

I'm talking to myself, too. I'm reminding myself that I'm wired differently than most people, and so I shouldn't use their experiences as a yardstick to evaluate my own.

You're speaking to me that's for sure. So many people have asked me in my life "Are you excited?" about something that might elicit that response in them and I always have felt defensive in saying "I never get excited". Which is very true. I think I also experience less joy and enthusiasm as well, but also less sadness and loneliness.

 

[boilerman]

My FIRE lessons

Such an interesting thread! My own experience from my first 2.5 years of FIRE are quite different than the OP. Here we go…

1. Hey, an economic collapse. Neat.

Here we agree. My first withdrawal from my IRA was planned to be in April 2020 just as the market tanked. But I had already setup for about 6 years of withdrawals in cash so I still sleep well knowing we can weather this storm.

2. I figured out when I’m going back to work: never

Debating about whether I would want or need to go back to work was never a part of my thinking. I enjoyed my career but always knew that I would leave when we had enough assets to live comfortably with some buffer. I had lots of folks tell me I would be bored and miss the challenges of work but I would just smile and say “we’ll see…” For those who are in doubt during their first year, I would advise to give it some time and don’t rush back to the grind. Retirement is a huge transition for most people and you need to actively think about how you want to spend your time.

3. I significantly underestimated my expenses

We have significantly overestimated our expenses. We tend to be conservative in our planning and our investments has done better than planned so we are accelerating some home improvement projects. I now know that I could have FIREd about 2 years earlier (at age 55) but hindsight is 20/20.

4. The honeymoon lasted about 6 to 9 months

I’m still on my honeymoon after 2.5 years. Maybe that’s because I did not have a sense of overwhelming euphoria when I quit work as some have described. I would describe my feelings then as being excited about the next phase of our lives with all the freedoms we now have.

I still feel that same way every single day. Sometimes it hits me when I’ve slept in a bit. More often, I get that feeling of excitement as I’m headed off in the morning to golf, pickleball or some other activity. I suppose it may wear off at some point but it has not so far.

5. I needed “meaningful work” sooner than I expected

Not me. I have absolutely no guilt what so ever about doing whatever I want.

However, I have chosen to volunteer my time to a non-profit and I do consider that meaningful. But it is not meaningful work. I do it to give back to those less fortunate and it makes me feel good to do so. But I don’t get the same sense of accomplishment as when I worked so I don’t consider it “meaningful work.” I have no guilt without meaningful work.

6. The lure of social media

Again my experience is very different. When I was working, I had no time or patience for social media and I felt a little left out. Since I FIREd, I’ve enjoyed spending time connecting on several sites, including this one.

Previously, I would not have taken the time on social media to provide a lengthy reply like this one. I spend the time I want on social media with no regrets.

7. A lesson of my own – you can’t plan everything

Like many here, I spent years with my spreadsheets planning the financial aspects of FIRE and read books like Ernie Zelinski’s to prepare for the non-financial parts of retirement. But shortly after retirement, our family experienced unexpected and serious health issues that have prevented us from living out all of our retirement dreams.

I am hopeful that we are turning the corner soon on those health issues but my point is to understand that life is still full of unknowns. Retirement is wonderful, but life always has its challenges and not every day will be perfect. But it still beats working!