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Ready 04-29-2021 09:54 PM

Fractional Sailboat Membership
 
Does anyone have experience with being a member of a fractional sailboat program? We are looking at one that allows us to pay a flat monthly fee with a one year commitment to have scheduled access to a sailboat.

The program guarantees 3.5 days per month, consisting of one weekend and several weekdays. You can book up to a year in advance. The program also allows you to book unlimited access to the boat if you schedule within 36 hours and there is an open slot. From what we can see the boats are almost never used on weekdays because most of the members still work. We donít care that much about weekend access since we are both retired.

Prices start at $895/month for a 30 foot Beneteau and go up to $2,395 per month for a 51 foot Beneteau. They allow you to join with one other couple and split the costs and we do have one set of friends who are interest in joining with us.

Is this a good way for us to give sailing a try and see how much we like it? We can cancel after one year if we decide itís not for us. DH is an experienced sailor. I just sit in the back and enjoy the view.

Here is a link to the program:

https://www.sailtimenewportbeach.com/

Bamaman 04-29-2021 09:56 PM

It's the same as a time share as far as I'm concerned.

No way I'd get into such a deal. I'm a firm believer in paying cash for my toys--like our fifth wheel rv, 24' tritoon and Waverunner.

skyking1 04-29-2021 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2599931)
Does anyone have experience with being a member of a fractional sailboat program? We are looking at one that allows us to pay a flat monthly fee with a one year commitment to have scheduled access to a sailboat.

The program guarantees 3.5 days per month, consisting of one weekend and several weekdays. You can book up to a year in advance. The program also allows you to book unlimited access to the boat if you schedule within 36 hours and there is an open slot. From what we can see the boats are almost never used on weekdays because most of the members still work. We donít care that much about weekend access since we are both retired.

Prices start at $895/month for a 30 foot Beneteau and go up to $2,395 per month for a 51 foot Beneteau. They allow you to join with one other couple and split the costs and we do have one set of friends who are interest in joining with us.

Is this a good way for us to give sailing a try and see how much we like it? We can cancel after one year if we decide itís not for us. DH is an experienced sailor. I just sit in the back and enjoy the view.

Here is a link to the program:

https://www.sailtimenewportbeach.com/

Looks pretty interesting. $895 is a decent price to get a boat available in convenient moorage.

Sunset 04-29-2021 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman (Post 2599932)
It's the same as a time share as far as I'm concerned.
.

That would be my concern, but from the site, it seems more like a car lease:

"An important consideration is that fractional sailing is not ďtimeshareĒ for boats. While sharing a nice asset is similar, three key differentiators are: (1.) SailTime does not require a major upfront equity investment, (2.) members do not have to pay per usage fees or assessments, and (3.) members do not have to worry about selling their share when they wish to exit the program. At the end of the lease, SailTime members can just walk away or renew; it is their choice."

So as long as the paperwork is like a lease that ends, I think it's a great way to try out sailing.

Sunset 04-29-2021 11:08 PM

It's basically making use of privately owned boats, that are shared with Sailtime members.
Gives the boat owner some income, as the money is split 50/50 with SailTime.

I'd wonder about the quality/age/condition of the boats.

skyking1 04-29-2021 11:30 PM

Looks to be a uniform fleet of late model beneataus. Same boats = ease of operation, whichever one is available.

Midpack 04-30-2021 12:32 AM

Compared to sole ownership of a boat it’s not a bad program. But $10,740 to $28,740 is a lot of money 4 days per month “to give sailing a try and see how much we like it.” You’re only getting 1 weekend day and 3 week days per month, the rest is night blocks.

Unless your husband is ASA 101, 103 & 104 certified already, you will have some training expenses according to Sailing Lessons What to Expect.

And maybe I’m not reading it right but you don’t necessarily get much choice of days if you’re competing with 2 owners and 6 members for each boat - their typical example. The owners get 1 full week per month each and the 6 members are vying for the other day and night blocks. You say the boats sit idle a lot on weekdays, that seems hard to believe owners and members are paying that much and not using the boat. If I was a paying member I’d at least schedule all my time even if I didn’t use it after all so I’d be blocking other members on good days. Will they show you the actual schedule for the boat so you can see what access really looks like?

I don’t know what the wind is like in Newport Beach, but if there’s no wind, too much wind, or storms on your scheduled days - I assume that’s too bad? You’re guaranteed blocks, but not guaranteed good weather with it. Weather is a big part of sailing, you can’t schedule good sailing days, ask any sailor.

There are MUCH cheaper ways to find out if you like sailing. The management company is taking a nice profit…

conversationalphrase 04-30-2021 04:53 AM

I suggest looking into bare boat charters.

The Cosmic Avenger 04-30-2021 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 2599958)
Compared to sole ownership of a boat itís not a bad program. But $10,740 to $28,740 is a lot of money 4 days per month ďto give sailing a try and see how much we like it.Ē Youíre only getting 1 weekend day and 3 week days per month, the rest is night blocks.

Well, Ready also said that they can also go on any unbooked days if they're still unbooked 36 hours or less beforehand, and most weekdays are unbooked (although that could change), so to my untrained, un-nautical eye this seems like a good test run, especially if you can do it for just a few months at a time. Like people say about renting an RV before buying. I wonder what the minimum lease is, although even a year's worth might be a good test run rather than buying, as it sounds like it's a full year at time, Ready? You can probably rent one for a week or two to start, if the year feels like a big commitment, although as I implied I know nothing about boats.

Midpack 04-30-2021 07:19 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger (Post 2600014)
Well, Ready also said that they can also go on any unbooked days if they're still unbooked 36 hours or less beforehand, and most weekdays are unbooked (although that could change), so to my untrained, un-nautical eye this seems like a good test run, especially if you can do it for just a few months at a time. Like people say about renting an RV before buying. I wonder what the minimum lease is, although even a year's worth might be a good test run rather than buying, as it sounds like it's a full year at time, Ready? You can probably rent one for a week or two to start, if the year feels like a big commitment, although as I implied I know nothing about boats.

Only if owners and members aren’t using the time they paid for, that’s why I asked if the management would let them see an actual schedule. Disregarding night blocks, with 2 owners x 7 days and 6 members x 4 days - that’s 45 days per month, so oversold and you’re forced to use some night blocks to get your full time? You’re assuming owners and members leave lots of time unused after paying $10-28K per year. And some days will be lost to weather in most locations, I don’t know Newport Beach, always good wind? If I was a member, I’d book all my time every month whether I could use it or not. Just because the boat is sitting there doesn’t mean it isn’t scheduled to someone? There are way cheaper ways to find out if you like sailing…

If this accurate, I wouldn’t want to sail there most days, must be a lot of light air days.

Ready 04-30-2021 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 2600019)
Only if owners and members arenít using the time they paid for, thatís why I asked if the management would let them see an actual schedule. Disregarding night blocks, with 2 owners x 7 days and 6 members x 4 days - thatís 45 days per month, so oversold and youíre forced to use some night blocks to get your full time? Youíre assuming owners and members leave lots of time unused after paying $10-28K per year. And some days will be lost to weather in most locations, I donít know Newport Beach, always good wind? If I was a member, Iíd book all my time every month whether I could use it or not. Just because the boat is sitting there doesnít mean it isnít scheduled to someone? There are way cheaper ways to find out if you like sailingÖ

Good points Midpack. We will definitely look at the calendar to see how booked up it is. Winds in Newport Beach are generally around 12-14mph in the afternoons.

The commitment is for a full year. After one year we can walk if we donít like it. We just recently joined a yacht club in a slightly further location where we commit to paying a minimum of $20/month for membership privileges. A small 22 foot sailboat is $75 for four hours or $100 for a full day. Larger boats go for $200-$400 per day for 30-40 foot boats. So if we use the boats around 4 days per month it becomes cheaper to use the fractional program. And the boats in the fractional program are nicer and only a couple of years old. The yacht club boats are older and not as well equipped.

audreyh1 04-30-2021 07:53 AM

You can rent the boats and if you really do end up using them 4 days a month then switch to the other with a one year commitment.

Seems like that is a good way to try out and see what your usage is likely to be.

Ready 04-30-2021 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 2600034)
You can rent the boats and if you really do end up using them 4 days a month then switch to the other with a one year commitment.

Seems like that is a good way to try out and see what your usage is likely to be.

Yes, that is what we are currently doing and will probably do for at least a few more months before we make a decision. My only concern is if we are going to switch to the fractional program I want to have it available for the summer season. While you can sail year round here, it gets pretty cold in the winter months so we likely will not be sailing most of the winter season.

old medic 04-30-2021 09:25 AM

Boat.... a hole in the water you try to fill in with money....
I do love sailing... and cant wait to get ours fixed up and back in the water...
We have had 5 different sailboats over the years, largest was a 25ft Roberts with an inboard diesel... dont believe we had $5K tied up in all of them...

audreyh1 04-30-2021 09:30 AM

We had a lovely older 26ft C&C sailboat that we pretty much only paid $4000 for, enjoyed for years, and eventually sold for about the same amount. It was in a slip at a marina, so always ready to go.

skyking1 04-30-2021 10:23 AM

OP, I like the program. I've sailed on older boats and the idea of a fresh well kept boat at my disposal sounds nice. The short reservations being free just sealed the deal iMO.
You could really be marina bums for a year. Either you'll go all-in after that, or look back fondly and say "been there, done that".
I vote go for it, with your money. :)

jollystomper 04-30-2021 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyking1 (Post 2600145)
OP, I like the program. I've sailed on older boats and the idea of a fresh well kept boat at my disposal sounds nice. The short reservations being free just sealed the deal iMO.
You could really be marina bums for a year. Either you'll go all-in after that, or look back fondly and say "been there, done that".
I vote go for it, with your money. :)

+1

One of the joys of FI is being able to spend "seed" money to see if you like something before making a bigger commitment. If you decide to go beyond it, great. If you choose not to, you can walk away, you still have the experience, and being FI you really will not miss the money.

marko 04-30-2021 12:02 PM

Lifetime, 5th generation sailor here.

I think the idea is a good one if you're not really, really committed to sailing/boating. We have two acquaintances who do this and they swear by it.

For us, we spend about 4 days a week on the boat all summer either sailing or just lounging (a lot of lounging lately) so the limited availability doesn't work; we also entertain a lot on the boat which sometimes includes an overnight.

Personally, I also don't like the idea of taking 'someone else's boat' out; makes me a bit overly cautious which would spoil the day but that's just me. We also like the idea of leaving our 'stuff' (booze, bathing suits, food, extra clothes) on board without having to lug it on/off at day's end.

What have you got to lose? Try it for the year and see.

skyking1 04-30-2021 02:41 PM

One of the things about renting that is a sure problem, is when the weather is good the boat will be booked solid. At least with this fractional situation you'll have a couple times a year we'll have the boat on a beautiful day. Then there are those times when you are Marina bums, someone cancels, and you head out for an epic adventure for free.

Scuba 05-01-2021 07:05 AM

I think the program itself sounds decent. From your posts, it sounds as though youíre already familiar with sailing in So CA?

DH and I got ASA certified in the British Virgin Islands years ago. When we came home to So CA, we considered a similar program but decided against it. I grew up sailing on the Gulf of Mexico and to me, sailing is about wearing a bathing suit, sunning, and being out on the water, maybe even jumping in from time to time. Even in the summertime in So CA, the ocean breeze is pretty chilly so when weíve been out sailing here, itís in jeans and sweaters. Just not the same. Now we save our sailing for trips to the islands and hire a crew since we donít do it often enough to be really good at it.

WestUniversity 05-01-2021 07:45 AM

Not clear if youíve ever sailed before. If not, for far less than the annual cost of this program you could buy a new Sunfish and trailer, do some lake sailing and learn the fundamentals of sailing. If itís not for you then sell the Sunfish. They are fun and easy to sailÖ

YMMV

skyking1 05-01-2021 08:07 AM

OP's husband is an experienced sailor.

audreyh1 05-01-2021 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestUniversity (Post 2600605)
Not clear if you’ve ever sailed before. If not, for far less than the annual cost of this program you could buy a new Sunfish and trailer, do some lake sailing and learn the fundamentals of sailing. If it’s not for you then sell the Sunfish. They are fun and easy to sail…

YMMV

A Sunfish! Ha ha.

No comparison to a larger heavy keel sailboat.

A completely different sailing experience.

Ready 05-01-2021 08:55 AM

My family had motor boats growing up so I’ve spent a fair amount of time on the water. Sailing is somewhat new to me but not to DH. I don’t mind the smaller 22 foot boats but I prefer a boat with a nice interior and a well appointment Lav and galley, especially if we are taking friends out with us.

Sailing in So Cal is not as nice as in places like Florida or Virgin Islands. There are not a lot of destinations so it’s mostly just open sailing. We can sail to Catalina and stay overnight, or head down to San Diego. The water is always cold and the weather can be chilly even during the summer.

Fermion 05-01-2021 09:11 AM

We have a 2008 17 foot Montgomery sailboat and trailer (which was actually built in southern California where you are!) and a 1989 Pacific Seacraft 34.

The PSC34 costs about as much per year as we paid in total for the M17 :)

I actually like sailing the M17 better right now as I am so used to it I can tack down a river or come screaming into a beach area close hauled at an eye watering 5 knots and then instantly cruise 20 feet from the shore on a beam reach, making all the land lubbers jealous that they don't have a nifty little sailboat.

The PSC34 is a serious boat with more than a 5 foot draft and massive keel. You don't play around with it so much.

WestUniversity 05-01-2021 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 2600624)
A Sunfish! Ha ha.

No comparison to a larger heavy keel sailboat.

A completely different sailing experience.



Iíve had both and sailed both as well as many others. My 31í sloop was a far different experience than a Sunfish. Frankly the Sunfish was more fun and WAY less hassle and less expenseÖ

mystang52 05-01-2021 12:52 PM

Even if it's only for one year, it's an almost $11,000 dollar commitment. As I believe another poster wrote, why not rent whenever you want to sail? Do it for a full 6-9 months, or even a year, then examine the total cost.
For me, one "soft cost" that is saved by renting is not feeling compelled to use the boat to "get my money's worth." Disclaimer: I am not a sailor.

OldShooter 05-01-2021 01:37 PM

I would have an attorney pull a D&B on the company and a background check on the individuals. Look for liens and judgments, pending court cases, collections, etc. I would also talk to several of the boat owners (names from the state registry, not from the promoters) and see how it has gone getting paid, getting repairs reimbursed, etc.

Depending on the details of the contract, if the company tanks you may find the friendly folks at the bankruptcy court expecting you to keep paying to the end of your contract. Your attorney can give you an opinion on this.

skyking1 05-01-2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion (Post 2600643)
We have a 2008 17 foot Montgomery sailboat and trailer (which was actually built in southern California where you are!) and a 1989 Pacific Seacraft 34.

The PSC34 costs about as much per year as we paid in total for the M17 :)

I actually like sailing the M17 better right now as I am so used to it I can tack down a river or come screaming into a beach area close hauled at an eye watering 5 knots and then instantly cruise 20 feet from the shore on a beam reach, making all the land lubbers jealous that they don't have a nifty little sailboat.

The PSC34 is a serious boat with more than a 5 foot draft and massive keel. You don't play around with it so much.

you reminded me of my first sailing experience :)
I was a junior in high school, and my brother invited me along for a week of sailing during my spring break.
I drove to Anacortes and took the ferry to Friday Harbor to meet them.
Spring break madness at the marina, I walk down with my duffel bag to the dock to the outside finger. There is one spot left in the whole place, there on the outside. 5 boats round the point into the harbor at more or less the same time, and one by one they drop sail and start motoring, save one. This boat is moving right along under sail. He just keeps coming, and the boaters start to watch this madman with one foot on the tiller and a sheet in each hand. They get close enough and recognize my brother up on the foredeck with a fender in hand. That's my boat!
He sailed it right to the dock, dropping sail, kicked the rudder over and landed perfectly to scattered applause. I tossed my duffel on deck like this happens all the time, but I could tell that was cool.

audreyh1 05-01-2021 02:37 PM

We sailed into the slip most of the time. I got very good at it. DH hated that stinky little outboard motor.

Koolau 05-01-2021 03:49 PM

I know nothing about sailing, but just about any "pleasure" craft has significant fixed costs (insurance, mooring, routine maintenance, etc.) That was true with aircraft ownership. I was in a partnership with 2 other guys when we owned an airplane. It worked out rather well. I don't recall a single instance of "NO! I need the plane this weekend." We had a signup sheet and were rigorous about coughing up our monthly ante. Once we all got our licenses and around 100+ hours of time, we seemed to lose interest, I suppose and sold the plane after 2 years. Relatively painless and allowed us to have a plane that none of could afford on our own at the time.

I'd do my homework on the details, but spreading the fixed costs makes a lot of sense IMHO. YMMV

Fermion 05-01-2021 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 2600790)
We sailed into the slip most of the time. I got very good at it. DH hated that stinky little outboard motor.

Our PSC34 has a ~15hp electric inboard motor so I can make it "look" like we are sailing into the slip heh heh.

skyking1 05-01-2021 09:39 PM

LOL that is cheating. :)
The summer I took up sailing in earnest, we raced most Wednesday evenings in Tacoma.
It was a 22 Catalina with a swing keel, and if we were on any kind of downwind run we would crank up the keel until we started sliding.
We took second in our class every time, behind the boat that was always first. It was a blast.

marko 05-02-2021 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystang52 (Post 2600749)
Even if it's only for one year, it's an almost $11,000 dollar commitment. As I believe another poster wrote, why not rent whenever you want to sail? Do it for a full 6-9 months, or even a year, then examine the total cost.
For me, one "soft cost" that is saved by renting is not feeling compelled to use the boat to "get my money's worth." Disclaimer: I am not a sailor.

One of the most important lessons my dad taught me about sailing is this: "If you're going to break down how much it's costing you per day sailing, go find another hobby. You have to do this because you love it and what it costs, is what it costs. You're never going to get 'your money's worth'."
(but it would be nice if the upkeep on my boat was only $11K per year)

Second most important advice: "The time to reduce sail is the first moment you wonder if you should"

phil1ben 05-02-2021 06:49 AM

Found two other friends and together we share a small sailboat. None of us would use it enough to own on our own. It has worked great for 6 years so far. We opened a bank account that we all contribute into and pay bills. We all share responsibilities.

The Cosmic Avenger 05-02-2021 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil1ben (Post 2601030)
Found two other friends and together we share a small sailboat. None of us would use it enough to own on our own. It has worked great for 6 years so far. We opened a bank account that we all contribute into and pay bills. We all share responsibilities.

From the drama I've seen centered around family cabins, I'd be concerned about sharing property like that with someone other than a spouse, child, or parent. (The issues seem to arise around adult sibling and cousin levels, IME.) However, I'm glad it works for you, and maybe if those participating don't have bringing decades of memories and childhood baggage about the property in question it's much easier to manage.

Sunset 05-02-2021 08:48 AM

One advantage the renting has is that OP would mostly want to rent when the seasonal weather is nice, and quite possibly not even sail in the middle of Winter.
An effective use of the money, offsetting a possible higher cost/day of sailing.

The fractional membership, means paying for months when not even wanting to sail.

Fermion 05-02-2021 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset (Post 2601087)
The fractional membership, means paying for months when not even wanting to sail.

As opposed to full ownership, which means paying for years when you can't find time to sail ;D

Sunset 05-02-2021 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion (Post 2601089)
As opposed to full ownership, which means paying for years when you can't find time to sail ;D

Yes, I've thought of that with my cars, often they sit still in the garage. A total waste of money each day ;)

Out-to-Lunch 05-02-2021 09:09 AM

This thread really makes me grateful for the arrangement we stumbled into. Friends have a sweet, older (1974) 27' sailboat in a slip on Lake Michigan. We are partners (but not owners), and simply pay 50% of expenses and share maintenance chores. Sometimes we sail together, sometimes separately, but both couples get as much tiller time as we desire. Including the slip and winter storage, yearly expenses are ~$1500 per couple. We expressed willingness to buy 1/2 of the boat, but it isn't worth enough for them to bother with the paperwork. Can't beat that deal!

Fermion 05-02-2021 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset (Post 2601092)
Yes, I've thought of that with my cars, often they sit still in the garage. A total waste of money each day ;)

I do wonder how many cars have sat a bit idle during these work at home COVID times.

Our big sailboat has sat idle in the slip for a year now because of COVID travel restrictions and other factors. Just the slip fees and registration/insurance are around $6,000 a year. This is not counting the delayed maintenance since boats are essentially just decaying as they sit in the salt water.

Compare this with our little sailboat, which sits safely inside our pole barn on its trailer, costing us $55 a year in registration...and we actually used it twice last year!

skyking1 05-02-2021 09:32 AM

@out-to-lunch,
That is a good deal. I did that one year with the 22 Catalina. DW got scared when she got blown down while at the helm.

audreyh1 05-02-2021 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion (Post 2601111)
I do wonder how many cars have sat a bit idle during these work at home COVID times.

Our big sailboat has sat idle in the slip for a year now because of COVID travel restrictions and other factors. Just the slip fees and registration/insurance are around $6,000 a year. This is not counting the delayed maintenance since boats are essentially just decaying as they sit in the salt water.

Compare this with our little sailboat, which sits safely inside our pole barn on its trailer, costing us $55 a year in registration...and we actually used it twice last year!

COVID travel restrictions meant you could sail the big boat? Do you not bother if you are only sailing out and back with no other destination?

Fermion 05-02-2021 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 2601117)
COVID travel restrictions meant you could sail the big boat? Do you not bother if you are only sailing out and back with no other destination?

We could not go into Canada, which was a key sailing destination, also we did not want to take the risk of traveling to the boat before vaccinations as it would involve interactions with more people on the ~7 hour drive to the coast and the larger population density where the boat is moored.

Should be better this year, except we are still really busy on the house build.

audreyh1 05-02-2021 12:42 PM

I see.

Our marina was a 15 minute drive from home through some pretty hill country. On a lake. It was very usable especially while working, after that we started traveling too much.

Because our marina fees were low and we paid little for the older sailboat when we first got it, we never felt like we had a money hole.

WestUniversity 05-02-2021 12:47 PM

Fractional Sailboat Membership
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion (Post 2601089)
As opposed to full ownership, which means paying for years when you can't find time to sail ;D


For me it was a hole in the water I poured a lot of money into. Never mind the routine expenses of a slip, insurance, utilities at the dock, and fuel. Also all of the ďmarine dutyĒ parts that regularly failed and all seemed to cost either $50 or $1,000. The endless trips to West Marine. Then thereís the really big expenses. Haul out to scrape barnacles, new anti fouling paint, repacking the shaft seal on the prop, pulling the stick to re-bed the mast plate screws because of a leak that also compromised some of the internal structure of the compression post, maintaining the gel coat of the fiberglass, maintenance on the diesel engine etc, etc, etc.

The old cliche was true for me. The two happiest days in a boat owners lifeÖ. the day he buys it and the day he sells it. Particularly if itís a boat that is always in the water in a slip.

Iíll take a Sunfish on a lake any dayÖ

YMMV

Midpack 05-02-2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestUniversity (Post 2601212)
For me it was a hole in the water I poured a lot of money into. Never mind the routine expenses of a slip, insurance, utilities at the dock, and fuel. Also all of the “marine duty” parts that regularly failed and all seemed to cost either $50 or $1,000. The endless trips to West Marine. Then there’s the really big expenses. Haul out to scrape barnacles, new anti fouling paint, repacking the shaft seal on the prop, pulling the stick to re-bed the mast plate screws because of a leak that also compromised some of the internal structure of the compression post, maintaining the gel coat of the fiberglass, maintenance on the diesel engine etc, etc, etc.

That's how I gave up on owning sailboats after 30 years and 5 sailboats from 26' to 35', 20 years racing sailboats. I was summarizing our spending and looked at what the boat cost me in 2018 - multiplied that by 20-30 years - and the total sum was staggering! I worked a lot of extra years for sailing, loved it, but not that much. Now I pay $550 a year to take out small daysailers up to 19' anytime I want, race or cruise, with no maintenance and no added expenses. Good enough...

Brat 05-02-2021 01:41 PM

Last weekend DH and I were dog-sitting on a floating home. A sailboater pulled their boat at the adjacent marina, loaded it on a trailer but failed to drop the mast. The whole area was out of power for 6 hours as PGE untangled the mast from a high-power line. Awful for us but it would have been worse if they had tangled with an overpass on the freeway.

audreyh1 05-02-2021 01:43 PM

OK, I remember occasionally honking at an RV that forgot to drop its TV antenna, but a sailboat mast!?!? :o

skyking1 05-02-2021 03:04 PM

That is epic fail. i work in heavy construction and one day i saw two trucks take out something with a raised bed or too high a bed. I drive a dump truck myself and always get out and look up before raising the bed.
The one boo-boo, I am waiting on the equipment to be delivered and this dump truck takes out the traffic lights right in front of me. I began to wonder if the job was jinxed.

WestUniversity 05-02-2021 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 2601217)
That's how I gave up on owning sailboats after 30 years and 5 sailboats from 26' to 35', 20 years racing sailboats. I was summarizing our spending and looked at what the boat cost me in 2018 - multiplied that by 20-30 years - and the total sum was staggering! I worked a lot of extra years for sailing, loved it, but not that much. Now I pay $550 a year to take out small daysailers up to 19' anytime I want, race or cruise, with no maintenance and no added expenses. Good enough...


Agreed. I hate to think about how much money Iíve spent over the years. Simply staggering. Thatís why Iíll take a Sunfish any day. Super simple design and super easy to learn on, and with a planing hull vs a displacement hull so much fun and so fast on a windy day. Iíve also sailed cats, Hobies, Prindles etc. Lots of fun in my younger days but too much work in comparisonÖ

Brat 05-02-2021 08:41 PM

My son started sailing with a Lazer and he is starting to teach his son. I would never recommend that boat for adult recreational sailers. He moved up to a Balboa when he realized that girls don't like to get wet sailing.

Son and wife own a boatyard. With rare exceptions, they are happy to let sailboat owners use another yard (there aren't a lot of large sailboats on the Columbia/Willamette Rivers), no need to get greedy. What gives me shivers is when a boat owner wants to ocean sail with his family with little ocean sailing experience.

There was a time when we explored sailboat rental as described by the OP and IMHO that is the way to go unless you have the time and financial resources to own the boat you want to use. We rented a sailboat out of Bellingham to sail in the Gulf Islands. Great experience.

Starsky 05-02-2021 08:56 PM

I had an acquaintance who loved the membership format and we looked into it in San Diego. At least there's a start and end to the deal, so you could try it and see if it works for you, and any gear problems are someone else's responsibility.
Boats are not cheap no matter how you slice it. Even the cheapest cruiser needs a slip to store it in, annual registration, and the occasional hull cleaning and maintenance - not to mention having good sails. That's another $5k+ per year, minimum for the most primitive 28' day cruiser.
One other thing to ask about is whether the membership has any reciprocal privileges available with other similar places. The ability to have easy access to nice sailboats in other ports is always something I thought would be very cool.

Brat 05-02-2021 09:07 PM

Thank you for mentioning moorage. In Seattle metro don't buy a boat without a slip. The states are limiting moorage so a place to tie up your boat is critical.

WestUniversity 05-03-2021 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brat (Post 2601398)
My son started sailing with a Lazer and he is starting to teach his son. I would never recommend that boat for adult recreational sailers. He moved up to a Balboa when he realized that girls don't like to get wet sailing.


Iíve seen a couple of Beneteau sailboats over the years that I really liked. Have always loved their boats. But then I remember all the work and expenses and come back to my sensesÖ

skyking1 05-04-2021 07:48 PM

They always look fantastic when someone else is taking care of them

Koolau 05-04-2021 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyking1 (Post 2602471)
They always look fantastic when someone else is taking care of them

Each house we've "spruced up", we asked "Why are we selling this?" Cleaning the plane to sell, we did the same thing. I'm sure a boat has the same dynamic, though YMMV.

Scuba 05-05-2021 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2600638)
My family had motor boats growing up so Iíve spent a fair amount of time on the water. Sailing is somewhat new to me but not to DH. I donít mind the smaller 22 foot boats but I prefer a boat with a nice interior and a well appointment Lav and galley, especially if we are taking friends out with us.

Sailing in So Cal is not as nice as in places like Florida or Virgin Islands. There are not a lot of destinations so itís mostly just open sailing. We can sail to Catalina and stay overnight, or head down to San Diego. The water is always cold and the weather can be chilly even during the summer.



So given that itís mostly open sailing and chilly, do you enjoy sailing in So CA enough to get your moneyís worth from this program?

Ready 05-06-2021 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba (Post 2602987)
So given that itís mostly open sailing and chilly, do you enjoy sailing in So CA enough to get your moneyís worth from this program?

Thatís the question I keep asking myself. Realistically if we have to pay for the membership on our own, the answer is probably no. But if we can split the membership with some friends of ours the dollar amount is small enough that Iíd probably be willing to give it a try.

srpuywa 05-06-2021 08:56 AM

How much sailing experience do you have?

Southern California is pretty boring place to sail

skyking1 05-06-2021 08:56 AM

i agree that would be a huge difference. Crew of 4 is nice. Friends to share the time with is nice.

imnontrad 05-07-2021 03:26 PM

Freedom Boat Club is getting a LOT of good press. And you can get a boat at other locations when you travel, not limited to one location. They have power boats and sailboats.

Ready 05-07-2021 03:37 PM

We went sailing yesterday in the 22 foot charter boat. DH wants to get some more experience before taking his test this weekend. It was windy so we had some good sailing. Weather was good. But I would like to have a larger boat. The 22 foot boat gets pretty choppy on the open seas. And the boats in the charter program are old and worn out.

I did learn that Sail Time, the fractional program, is owned by Benneateu. And they have very strict conditions on what boats are allowed in the program. Most are less than 2 years old so they are very nicely appointed and in great condition.

Delawaredave5 05-07-2021 03:57 PM

If you have another couple interested, and compatible, you could both split a boat.

I love "splitting toys" with friends - half the cost, half the work, all the fun.

Buddy and I had an 84 Hunter 27 foot for 8 years, mooring Chesapeake Bay.

Initial boat was $6,000. Half of mooring, storage and insurance was $1,200/year. We did maintenance ourselves. Just sold it for what we paid.

I've done the same with old cars. Now looking for buddy to buy a hard sided popup camper - anyone in Mid Atlantic interested ???

scottpush 05-08-2021 04:31 AM

I have never sailed and joined a sailing club one month ago that owns 2 ~30 foot sailboats that we can take out for a nominal fee. I think around $75 every time you take one out. It was $330/year to join. The boats are old and somewhat musty below deck. They have classes to get you acclimated to the boats as well as how to be safe. It's out of busy Annapolis. They also show you how to sail but so far it's been very little. I don't feel comfortable at all taking one out at this point. I might take sailing lessons elsewhere until I do. Watching sailing people online and some boredom in retirement got me interested. Plus always loved the water. We'll see if it sticks or not.

Brat 05-08-2021 11:17 AM

My grandson's "currency" is time to sail a dinky Lazer. He just turned 12 so it is an appropriate boat. The other day he turtled it and a neighbor was preparing to come to his rescue but the kid righted the boat and sailed home.

Sailing to me is applied physics.

Scuba 05-10-2021 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2603086)
Thatís the question I keep asking myself. Realistically if we have to pay for the membership on our own, the answer is probably no. But if we can split the membership with some friends of ours the dollar amount is small enough that Iíd probably be willing to give it a try.



Sounds like itís worth trying. Worst case, consider it part of your travel and entertainment spending for the year. If you donít like it, you can cancel the following year. The fractional program sounds ideal for you, especially with the quality of the boats.

I personally would never feel comfortable buying an expensive boat or a vacation home with another couple we are friends with. Others apparently have been successful with that. Iíd be concerned about what would happen to the friendship as well as the asset if either couple in the partnership had a major change in financial or health circumstances. The fractional program avoids all of that risk.

Ready 05-10-2021 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba (Post 2604968)
Sounds like itís worth trying. Worst case, consider it part of your travel and entertainment spending for the year. If you donít like it, you can cancel the following year. The fractional program sounds ideal for you, especially with the quality of the boats.

I personally would never feel comfortable buying an expensive boat or a vacation home with another couple we are friends with. Others apparently have been successful with that. Iíd be concerned about what would happen to the friendship as well as the asset if either couple in the partnership had a major change in financial or health circumstances. The fractional program avoids all of that risk.

Agreed. We have zero desire to own a boat. Renting with some friends should work out OK for us because we really donít need that many days in the program and unused days roll over to the following month. There are easily a few winter months where none of us will be sailing so with all the carryover days we will never use up all of the available days in the program.

Sunset 05-10-2021 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2604983)
Agreed. We have zero desire to own a boat. Renting with some friends should work out OK for us because we really donít need that many days in the program and unused days roll over to the following month. There are easily a few winter months where none of us will be sailing so with all the carryover days we will never use up all of the available days in the program.

Won't that be similar for everyone, nobody sailing Dec, Jan, Feb, and then everyone wanting June, July August ?

Scuba 05-11-2021 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2604983)
Agreed. We have zero desire to own a boat. Renting with some friends should work out OK for us because we really donít need that many days in the program and unused days roll over to the following month. There are easily a few winter months where none of us will be sailing so with all the carryover days we will never use up all of the available days in the program.



I agree, splitting this rental program with friends would be ideal, especially if they are people you may want to sail with from time to time.

Ready 05-11-2021 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset (Post 2605082)
Won't that be similar for everyone, nobody sailing Dec, Jan, Feb, and then everyone wanting June, July August ?

Yes, but everyone is guaranteed 7 half days per months which is more than we would likely use it, so I donít think it will matter.

Ready 07-15-2021 05:03 PM

We tried chartering a few boats over the past few months and every boat we ended up on was more than 20 years old and really worn out. It was not a great experience. So DH went searching for boats in the SailTime program and ultimately found one he really liked in San Pedro. We signed the contract and took the boat out for the first time yesterday.

The boat is a 41.1 foot 2019 Beneteau. It’s in almost brand new condition and seems really well appointed. I’m still unsure of how often we are going to want to sail, especially when the weather cools down. But DH decided that doing this was on his “bucket list” so I reluctantly went along with it.

There are four other owners on the boat. The boat is owned and maintained by a Beneteau dealer so it seems to be well cared for. For the month of July there are only five days that were booked by other owners. In August there are two days reserved. Oddly, even the holidays are wide open. We booked it for Thanksgiving but Christmas and New Year’s are still available.

So we’ll see how it works out, and it’s only a one year commitment. But for now DH is happy, so I guess that’s all that matters.

Scuba 07-16-2021 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2634355)
We tried chartering a few boats over the past few months and every boat we ended up on was more than 20 years old and really worn out. It was not a great experience. So DH went searching for boats in the SailTime program and ultimately found one he really liked in San Pedro. We signed the contract and took the boat out for the first time yesterday.

The boat is a 41.1 foot 2019 Beneteau. Itís in almost brand new condition and seems really well appointed. Iím still unsure of how often we are going to want to sail, especially when the weather cools down. But DH decided that doing this was on his ďbucket listĒ so I reluctantly went along with it.

There are four other owners on the boat. The boat is owned and maintained by a Beneteau dealer so it seems to be well cared for. For the month of July there are only five days that were booked by other owners. In August there are two days reserved. Oddly, even the holidays are wide open. We booked it for Thanksgiving but Christmas and New Yearís are still available.

So weíll see how it works out, and itís only a one year commitment. But for now DH is happy, so I guess thatís all that matters.



Thanks for the update. Surprised the summer is not more booked. Enjoy!!

Brat 07-16-2021 11:03 AM

Years ago the family rented a sailboat out of Bellingham. It was a fun vacation.

brett 07-17-2021 10:44 AM

A friend of ours owned co-owned a sailboat with a friend for years.

It was ideal. He stated that the reason why it was so successful was because each party did 60 percent of the work.

I would not be inclined to go into a timeshare agreement on a sailboat or anything else for that matter.

audreyh1 07-17-2021 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready (Post 2634355)
We tried chartering a few boats over the past few months and every boat we ended up on was more than 20 years old and really worn out. It was not a great experience. So DH went searching for boats in the SailTime program and ultimately found one he really liked in San Pedro. We signed the contract and took the boat out for the first time yesterday.

The boat is a 41.1 foot 2019 Beneteau. Itís in almost brand new condition and seems really well appointed. Iím still unsure of how often we are going to want to sail, especially when the weather cools down. But DH decided that doing this was on his ďbucket listĒ so I reluctantly went along with it.

There are four other owners on the boat. The boat is owned and maintained by a Beneteau dealer so it seems to be well cared for. For the month of July there are only five days that were booked by other owners. In August there are two days reserved. Oddly, even the holidays are wide open. We booked it for Thanksgiving but Christmas and New Yearís are still available.

So weíll see how it works out, and itís only a one year commitment. But for now DH is happy, so I guess thatís all that matters.

Well thatís wonderful!

You all certainly pondered and investigated enough. Now you can move forward and enjoy it! Carpe diem!

Dtail 07-17-2021 11:20 AM

Our friends belong to a boat share club. Could be Freedom, but not sure.
I know it was a 3500 fee to join and then 200 monthly for a minimum of 4 outings. Not sure the maximum.
The boats are around 2-5 years old and in the 20's ft range.


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