TV antenna

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Stormy Kromer

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If this question has been addressed earlier I apologize, I don't frequent the technology forum on this site.

I am moving to the country and am too frugal to pay for dish or other pay per view options beyond netflix. It would be nice to get one of the major networks for news. I will be within 50 miles of a couple TV towers and should be able to pick them up with a decent antenna

I know antennas have come a long ways since the days we had to mount them on the roof and rotate them when you wanted to change channels. I'm thinking of putting one in the attic of the two story house in hopes of picking up a station or two.

Does anyone have any experience or suggestions ? Thank you.
 
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like2 said:
I use this one on my TVs and it works really well. I pick up over 100 channels but I live in an urban area with really strong broadcast signals from Mt. Wilson

https://www.amazon.com/Chaowei-DVB6...na&qid=1640576242&sprefix=tv+a,aps,137&sr=8-5
Click to expand...

That's unlikely to work for a 50 mile distance. You'll need something more like the one REWahoo linked. In the attic if you can't get it on the roof.

OP, you only need to rotate an antenna if you are trying to pick up stations from different cities, or if the towers in a city are in different directions.

Look at one of the Antenna sites where you enter your location, and it will tell you what's available, which direction, and what kind of antenna you might need.

TVfool.com, antennaweb.org.

-ERD50
 
I would ask the neighbors in the Country what they use. Could be you will need the standard rooftop antenna, nice thing is they are cheap and work for decades.

We have a roof top antenna, pointed towards Chicago. We get a ton of stations and don't bother to rotate as we have plenty.
Ours is bolted right on the roof.
 
I tried to chuck the cable tv system and go to an antenna. With 5 televisions in the house, we couldn't pick up a decent signal.

My wife & I are retired, and our televisions are on most all the time. We had to suck it up and get Dish TV on a special deal. Life is so much more satisfying now.
 
First, use a DTV reception map to understand the signal reception at your address. I like the one at tvfool.com as it provides a heat map that guides you how to point your antenna(s).

https://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

There's also one on the FCC website:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps

tvfool.com also has some forums where you can ask questions and see/learn from what others are asking. It's a useful site.

Once you have the signal information for your address, you'll be in a better position to select appropriate antenna(s) and other equipment you may need to have the best setup. The maps will assist you in pointing your antennas in the correct direction to get the best reception for the most stations.

We are centrally located between NYC and Philadelphia (a bit closer to NYC). I have three long-range antennas in our attic with two pointing at NYC (one specifically for channels in the 5-11 range), one at Philadelphia. In addition to the antennas, we have a pre-amp on each antenna, two couplers to bring all the signals together, a couple of splitters to distribute the signal to a couple of cable runs and then to each room with a TV, and a few well-placed signal boosters around the house. With this setup we are able to get 80+ channels. It took a bit of trial and error to get there, but once it was all in place, it was excellent.

When I did my installation, I took an old portable (non-digital) TV and digital converter box up into the attic with me. After using the heat map to get the direction to point the antennas, I then used the signal strength meter on a number of stations to make small adjustments until it was just right.

It's best not to skimp on the antenna(s) or the equipment you purchase. Choose quality, even if it is a little more expensive. It's a one time investment that will determine how well things work for you going forward. There is a lot of garbage out there, so be sure to read the reviews and use equipment from companies that are known leaders and not no-name brands. Also, purchase from flexible retailers like Amazon, Walmart, etc. that will allow easy returns if you happen to choose anything that doesn't perform or work out.

The antennas we have are the Antennas Direct DB8e and Antennas Direct C5 High Gain:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C4XVOOC
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002E1UNWS
 
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I have an antenna in the attic and it works well. It is a very traditional channelmaster.

A few things though:
- You need to aim it right
- You need to place it right
- Forget it if you have a metal roof

I'm going to try to move mine to the opposite side of the attic this winter. Although I get good reception on most channels, one still has drop outs. Part of this could be some interference from HVAC. The other is the oblique angle that puts a lot of those rafters in my way (see picture). The other side of the attic provides an opportunity to point through the gable wall which may provide less interference.

BTW, I temporarily set it up outside as a test and it was perfect. But I don't want it outside.
 

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njhowie said:
First, use a DTV reception map to understand the signal reception at your address. I like the one at tvfool.com as it provides a heat map that guides you how to point your antenna(s).

https://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

There's also one on the FCC website:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps

tvfool.com also has some forums where you can ask questions and see/learn from what others are asking. It's a useful site.

Once you have the signal information for your address, you'll be in a better position to select appropriate antenna(s) and other equipment you may need to have the best setup. The maps will assist you in pointing your antennas in the correct direction to get the best reception for the most stations.

We are centrally located between NYC and Philadelphia (a bit closer to NYC). I have three long-range antennas in our attic with two pointing at NYC (one specifically for channels in the 5-11 range), one at Philadelphia. In addition to the antennas, we have a pre-amp on each antenna, two couplers to bring all the signals together, a couple of splitters to distribute the signal to a couple of cable runs and then to each room with a TV, and a few well-placed signal boosters around the house. With this setup we are able to get 80+ channels. It took a bit of trial and error to get there, but once it was all in place, it was excellent.

When I did my installation, I took an old portable (non-digital) TV and digital converter box up into the attic with me. After using the heat map to get the direction to point the antennas, I then used the signal strength meter on a number of stations to make small adjustments until it was just right.

It's best not to skimp on the antenna(s) or the equipment you purchase. Choose quality, even if it is a little more expensive. It's a one time investment that will determine how well things work for you going forward. There is a lot of garbage out there, so be sure to read the reviews and use equipment from companies that are known leaders and not no-name brands. Also, purchase from flexible retailers like Amazon, Walmart, etc. that will allow easy returns if you happen to choose anything that doesn't perform or work out.

The antennas we have are the Antennas Direct DB8e and Antennas Direct C5 High Gain:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C4XVOOC
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002E1UNWS
Click to expand...


You need be a little specific about channel numbers now a days. You mention channels 5 to 11, those may be display numbers only, well, I do see in your area 7, 8, 11, 12, and 13 are physical numbers so maybe you do have 11.

Most TV is now transmitted on UHF frequencies. But there are a still some VHF left. The OP needs to check his area and see if he has any VHF channels that still operate. They are more rare, but I have one (NBC) channel in my area, so I need the extra VHF element to get real channel 7.
I'm curious if you get 7, 8, 11, 12, and 13, I ask because the antennas you listed don't have VHF elements so not made to receive VHF. the second antenna you listed does have an option to purchase a VHF element.

Rabbit ears is a good info and direction source,
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

I think it is more up to date, last I read TVfool is no longer supported.


Some info for others, not necessarily the OP, who is moving out to the country. Where I live we have stations in directions that cover 154*. That means a highly directional antenna (a high gain antenna) will pick up well where it's pointed but not as well off it's center point. My neighbor got a long boom high gain antenna and it is so directional it won't pick up all of the station that my antenna with less gain does. He end up turning it backwards to make it pick up on its rear side where it has broader beamwidth. It pays to do a little research before buying. Some might learn a lot from the Antenna man.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AntennaMan
 
I'm "way out" in the country... The big city antenna farms are well over 100 miles away from me and I'm not sure where the smaller cities antennas are located.. (But they are no where near me) I've tried a couple of OTA antennas (even with a rotor) and "sometimes" I can pickup one or two channels when the weather is right. Half the time I can't get that... If you are going to get Internet service (like DSL or cable, if available) then there's plenty of free streaming services. Pluto carries a bunch of news channels and other stuff. Of course lot's of free movies channels too, like Roku, Tubi, etc... So simple to hook up, even a caveman could do it... Anything over 5 meg should be very usable.
 
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Time2 said:
I'm curious if you get 7, 8, 11, 12, and 13, I ask because the antennas you listed don't have VHF elements so not made to receive VHF. the second antenna you listed does have an option to purchase a VHF element.
Click to expand...


We get 7 (ABC), 11 (PIX), 13 (PBS) from NYC quite strong. We get 12 (PBS) from Philadelphia. We don't receive 8.

Without the C5 (second) antenna we do not receive 7 or 11 - maybe 13 as well, it's been about 10 years since I installed it so don't remember.

I also like that RabbitEars site. Thanks.
 
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In addition to a metal roof, if you have solar foil on your roofs sheathing or tacked on it will also be an impediment to attic mounting.
 
Stormy Kromer said:
....Does anyone have any experience or suggestions ? Thank you.
Click to expand...

We also live in the country... about 35 miles from the broadcast antennas but with a small mountain between us. For years I thought we could never get OTA because of our location and the small mountain in back of us and the DTV reception map websites suggested the same... signal would be weak or poor.

Then a couple years ago when You Tube TV raised its monthly cost from $50 to $65 a month after I started with them it pissed me off so I tried an antenna in our attic and was surprised that I could get quite a few stations. We've fine tuned it over time and can get all the majors other than FOX.

I have a $40 RCA Yagi antenna installed in my attic with a Channel Master signal booster. When I was fine tuning I tried and returned a number of different antennas but the inexpensive RCA antenna worked as well or better then the others.

If you don't have coax from the attic to your TVs, instead of running coax you could put a Fire TV Recast in the attic by the antenna (110v needed though) and then a Fire TV Stick in each TV and when they are all on your home wi-fi network the Fire TV Recast will broadcast live and recorded OTA programs from the antenna to each of your TVs via wi-fi. It's a pretty slick set up and avoids the hassle of running coax throughout the house and avoids the decay of signal associated with long cable runs. The other benefit of the Recast is that you can watch live tv on your phone while in the attic to fine tune your antenna direction.

So I would suggest that you buy a few different antennas at a Walmart and test them... then just keep the one that works best and return the others.

At 50 miles though, you may need and outdoor antenna... but it is still better than paying for cable or satelite service.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.
 
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OP here. Thank you everyone for the input.

The house where I'm moving to has a metal roof. I know this for sure because I installed it last summer. It looks like an outdoor antenna for me, I"ll mount it on a post attached to the house and point it towards the TV tower.

I have been without cable for 6 years and haven't missed live television except for the nightly news. I grew up watching the CBS evening news with Walter Cronkite, Dan Rather and Roger Mudd. DF and I watched the news every evening when we came in from doing farm chores and I miss it.

Thanks to the antenna locator sites provided above I see that there is an ABC antenna about 25 miles away. This is flat farm country with no obstacles in the way. I'd be satisfied with one major network.

I'm going to try the RCA unit mentioned above and keep the receipt if it doesn't work out so I can return it.

Thanks everyone.
 
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Stormy Kromer said:
.... I have been without cable for 6 years and haven't missed live television except for the nightly news. I grew up watching the CBS evening news with Walter Conkite, Dan Rather and Roger Mudd. DD and I watched the news every evening when we came in from doing farm chores and I miss it. ..
Click to expand...

If major newtork nightly news is all you care about, if you have internet you can probably stream that. When we had CBS All-Access (now rebranded Paramount+) it included live broadcast for our local CBS affiliate. I think there are other ways to access the major network nightly news as well.
 
We live only a few miles from one set of the broadcast towers and about 20 miles from a second set. We bought the most powerful antenna that Best Buy had.
In our experience on a good day we get about 14 channels, on a bad day maybe 11. We have to move the antenna around in order to get NBC, then move it in another direction to get Fox.
We use it mainly for nightly news and NFL games.
Combined with Hulu we get everything we want.

Things we’ve learned:
Position matters and it takes awhile to figure it out.
Any metal on the house, we have mesh under our stucco and a metal roof, might effect your signal.
Be prepared to run the channel scan from time to time to reconnect with the towers.

Otherwise it’s been a nice alternative to paying the stupid amounts cable companies want.

You can also check out Tubi, they have free news broadcasts from many of the major markets.
 
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I am only a couple of miles from the hill where the broadcasting antennas are. I receive all of my local channels easily with an indoor antenna. I have noticed one interesting thing though: When a plane takes off from the airport 5 miles away, channel 5 (which is on the UHF band here) locks up and pixelates on my TV. The plane must be reflecting just enough signal, which arrives with just the right delay, to confuse my tuner.
 
Stormy Kromer said:
OP here. Thank you everyone for the input.

The house where I'm moving to has a metal roof. I know this for sure because I installed it last summer. It looks like an outdoor antenna for me, I"ll mount it on a post attached to the house and point it towards the TV tower.

I have been without cable for 6 years and haven't missed live television except for the nightly news. I grew up watching the CBS evening news with Walter Cronkite, Dan Rather and Roger Mudd. DF and I watched the news every evening when we came in from doing farm chores and I miss it.

Thanks to the antenna locator sites provided above I see that there is an ABC antenna about 25 miles away. This is flat farm country with no obstacles in the way. I'd be satisfied with one major network.

I'm going to try the RCA unit mentioned above and keep the receipt if it doesn't work out so I can return it.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

Is the one station the only one that is potentially reachable? If so, since you're likely to mount on the outside of the house, you might look into one similar to this type. I find them a little more aesthetic to look at than the old metal wire ones. I have this one mounted on a pole from my deck. I get a total of 26 stations, most of which are about 50 miles away in a moderately hilly area.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/antenn...or-hdtv-antenna-black/5894080.p?skuId=5894080
 
njhowie said:
There's also one on the FCC website:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps
Click to expand...

I can’t help much. My towers are about 10 miles away and clustered pretty close to each other. I put a good antenna in my attic like JoeWras did and it works well. I did, however, spend a bit of time on the fcc web site (above) to make sure I aimed the antenna for the best reception. That’s a really good site for information about towers.

Given your distance, you will probably want to figure out a solution that you can get through a streaming service. However, it’s still nice to have an antenna. Our cable company is fully a streaming service now. We downloaded their app to ROKU and stream our cable channels, including local channels to any tv in the house. However, when the service is down, it’s nice to have an antenna, especially when it’s down due to severe weather - it’s nice to be able to tune in to our local news for updates using the antenna. I only have it on one tv because as you would expect, it has to be hard wired to the tv. I don’t have any interest in wiring each tv now that we’ve gone fully to ROKU and wireless streaming.
 
Stormy Kromer said:
... Does anyone have any experience or suggestions ? ...
Click to expand...
Both. Got my ham license and my first class commercial "radiotelephone" license over 50 years ago.

Quite a child's garden of misinformation here. Some truths:

1) At commercial TV frequencies, signal transmission is basically a line-of-sight business. If the transmitting and receiving antennas can see each other you are pretty much guaranteed a good experience. Antennas can't see through things like mountains, tall buildings, metal roofs, etc. and have a hard time seeing through things like trees or snow on a roof.

(Our major airport is about 7 miles south of downtown and there is an area to the north of downtown where Approach Control's radio communications and radars are compromised by the downtown buildings.)

Distance doesn't matter much. People routinely communicate from the ground to LEO and Geosynchronous satellites hundeds or even thousands of miles away. What matters on the ground is the height of the antennas vs the curvature of the earth and any terrestrial obstacles between them. TV towers are typically 1500-2500' high so that their antennas can see a large surface area. If you're interested in this, Google "radio line of sight calculator." The reason 40 miles often comes up is that it is a frequent result for typical transmitting and receiving antennas. Ten miles is too far if there's a mountain in the way.

Consumer electronics in general and television antennas in particular is a fertile market for hucksters. The more "powerful" the antenna is claimed to be, the more likely it is to be a waste of money. In marginal situations, a highly directional antenna (typically a yagi design: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagi–Uda_antenna) will slightly boost a signal but no antenna can boost something that is not there.

The best advice you've been given here is to find out what the neighbors are doing and do the same thing. Eyeball/guess at antenna heights and plan to be at the average or a little higher. Look at antenna types and buy one that is like the most simple one you can see. Maybe even talk to a neighbor or two; people love to give advice.

Another thing that will help at the margins is to use high quality coax cable. Typical cheap cables and small-diameter cables will unnecessarily attenuate the signal, probably negating anything a huckster's antenna might have given you. For my VHF/UHF ham antenna I use LMR-400 (which seems to be running well over $1/foot these days). A specialist company like https://www.hamradio.com/ can help you select and connect a good piece of coax.
 
Stormy Kromer said:
OP here. Thank you everyone for the input.

The house where I'm moving to has a metal roof. I know this for sure because I installed it last summer. It looks like an outdoor antenna for me, I"ll mount it on a post attached to the house and point it towards the TV tower.

I have been without cable for 6 years and haven't missed live television except for the nightly news. I grew up watching the CBS evening news with Walter Cronkite, Dan Rather and Roger Mudd. DF and I watched the news every evening when we came in from doing farm chores and I miss it.

Thanks to the antenna locator sites provided above I see that there is an ABC antenna about 25 miles away. This is flat farm country with no obstacles in the way. I'd be satisfied with one major network.

I'm going to try the RCA unit mentioned above and keep the receipt if it doesn't work out so I can return it.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...


I have one station 52 miles away that is rock solid. My antenna is only 20ft up. Higher is better. Are you sure that is the only station that you could get?
 
One thing I forgot to mention in post #20 was lightning protection. I suggest consulting with the hamradio.com guys on this subject too. IMO most home/amateur installations have inadequate protection, though 100% protection is probably impossible.

My installation is probably overkill, but here it is while under construction:

QulSUAN.png


OTOH, if you like overkill this guy can help you: https://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/Products.html
​
 
Turbo29 said:
I am only a couple of miles from the hill where the broadcasting antennas are. I receive all of my local channels easily with an indoor antenna. I have noticed one interesting thing though: When a plane takes off from the airport 5 miles away, channel 5 (which is on the UHF band here) locks up and pixelates on my TV. The plane must be reflecting just enough signal, which arrives with just the right delay, to confuse my tuner.
Click to expand...

Supposedly, ATSC 3.0 will fix some of this intermittent nonsense. We'll see.

Problem with that is we'll all have to get new tuners/devices to receive the new generation transmission.

Another problem is I'm not so sure about the reception benefits. They'll have to prove it to me. ATSC 3.0 provides benefits to the broadcaster in that they can act more like a streaming company (target you with advertising, prevent copying, etc.)
 
PaunchyPirate said:
Is the one station the only one that is potentially reachable? If so, since you're likely to mount on the outside of the house, you might look into one similar to this type. I find them a little more aesthetic to look at than the old metal wire ones. I have this one mounted on a pole from my deck. I get a total of 26 stations, most of which are about 50 miles away in a moderately hilly area.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/antenn...or-hdtv-antenna-black/5894080.p?skuId=5894080
Click to expand...

+1
 
Bamaman said:
I tried to chuck the cable tv system and go to an antenna. With 5 televisions in the house, we couldn't pick up a decent signal.
Click to expand...

In your urban location, receiving a number of OTA stations should be easy. There is something botched in your install or something unique about your specific location such as signal-blocking obstacles.
 
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