Burlington, VT / Vermont

[Craig]

There is a chance we would move to Burlington, VT to acquire and operate a business. Can't go into the details of the business, but wanted to inquire if anyone here is familiar with the area ... economy, crime, population trends, weather, etc.

Is it a nice community, how about the state ...

Thanks.

 

[bpp]

I grew up in VT. Have been gone for more than two decades, but here is what I recollect.

Economy is not that great -- mostly tourism (very seasonal) and agriculture. Politically and socially it is an amalgam of old Puritan farmer ethos cum backwoods/redneck population mixed with a massive hippie immigration to create a fairly independent, left-wing-leaning libertarian kind of place. (Look at who they send to Congress.) You can hunt to your heart's content and sleep with whomever you like, but interference from out-of-staters is not tolerated -- Vermonters will cross social and political party lines to close ranks against perceived overbearing outsiders. Plan to localize as soon as possible (a few winters will demonstrate your sincerity), so that you will be within the fold rather than outside it. Locals are called "woodchucks." Out-of-state tourists are called "turkeys."

As far as the weather goes, well, I hope you like winter, because you'll get plenty of it. Which is followed by mud season, then a brief (but gorgeous) summer, a vibrant foliage season which lasts about 12 minutes, then a couple months of bleak, gray, cold, rainy fall, followed by more winter.

Any other questions?

 

[farmerEd]

Where are you coming from? I live just 30 minutes from VT, so could move there no problem and would be very happy and would know what to expect...on the other hand if you are relocating from FL, TX or S Cal and many other places you just might find it hard to adapt..so where you are coming from would make a big difference.

 

[Craig]

Coming from TN ... it is pretty temperate here.

I have experienced very harsh winters in my youth, in western NY.

 

[tryan]

and bring your VISA card .... taxes are ridiculous. Property taxes are as bad as NH ... except NH has no sales and/or income tax.

VT has a 6% sales tax ...OUCH! Believe only NY and CA can top that one.

 

[rs0460a]

and bring your VISA card .... taxes are ridiculous. Property taxes are as bad as NH ... except NH has no sales and/or income tax.

VT has a 6% sales tax ...OUCH! Believe only NY and CA can top that one.

PA sales tax is currently 6%, with the gov trying to go for 7% in "his" budget...

 

[farmerEd]

and bring your VISA card .... taxes are ridiculous. Property taxes are as bad as NH ... except NH has no sales and/or income tax.

VT has a 6% sales tax ...OUCH! Believe only NY and CA can top that one.

I think VT is perhaps a bit cheaper than NH w/regards to property taxes...but you are right, they are not cheap...it is a very small population and the money must be raised/spread across a small population. Maine is even more ridiculous (surprisingly) as the highest tax state overall (income+property+excise etc). my Massachusetts, still called "Taxachusetts" by some, ranks in the #32 of 50 in the latest survey I've seen.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/index.html

 

[tryan]

Also will want to look at the school system ... was skiing Mt Snow a couple weeks ago and was talking to a Brattleboro resident who relocated from NJ with a disabled child.

To summarize ... the schools suck. Kids xerox pages from a master text book (not enough text books for the class). And special ed is non existent. Contrary to state law, the local school district will simple push along needy students rather than pay for the mandated help.

Couldn't make this stuff up !

On the plus side, VT is the healthiest state in the country (forgot where I read this).

 

[bpp]

If you grew up in western NY you should have no problem with the weather, unless your blood has thinned too much since then (I know mine has).

The schools, yes, they are a problem, though I think some of the better ones are around Burlington. The high school I went to ran into budget problems, and the solution voted upon by the parents was to eliminate higher-level foreign language classes (who needs 'em? except French of course, for the tourists from Quebec... oops) -- oh, and expand the athletic fields.

On the other hand, you asked about crime, and on that score Vermont does very well. Nobody had locks on their houses when I was growing up (this probably was not true around Burlington, however), and car keys were always left in the ignition -- only polite, in case somebody else needed to move your car while you were in the bar or something. I don't know how it is now, though.

On balance, I would have to say it was a great place to grow up -- fairly safe, and beautiful, with lots of nature to roam at will. If you have kids, you just may want to think about private school.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Good syrup. Lots of snow. Colder than crap. Lots of trees. Lottttsss of treeeessssss...

Any other questions?

 

[Craig]

Great help ... thank you, my friends.

Headed up there in a couple weeks, to check things out. That should give us a real good idea of winter, as least as much as you can glean from a weekend!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

DEAR DIARY

AUG 12 Moved to out new home in Vermont. It is so beautiful here. The
mountains are so majestic. Can hardly wait to see snow covering them.

OCT 14 Vermont is the most beautiful place on earth. The leaves are
turning all the colors and shades of red and orange. Went for a ride
through the beautiful mountains and saw some deer. They are so graceful.
Certainly they are the most wonderful animal on earth. This must be
paradise. I love it here.

NOV 11 Deer season will start soon. I can't imagine anyone wanting to kill
such a gorgeous creature. Hope it will snow soon. I love it here.

DEC 2 It snowed last night. Woke up to find everything blanketed with
white. It looks like a postcard. We went outside and cleaned the snow off
the steps and shoveled the driveway. We had a snowball fight (I won), and
when the snowplow came by, we had to shovel the driveway again. What a
beautiful place. I love Vermont.

DEC 12 More snow last night. I love it. The snowplow did his trick again to
the driveway. I love it here.

DEC 19 More snow last night. Couldn't get out of the driveway to get to
work. I am exhausted from shoveling. Damn snowplow!

DEC 22 More of that white **** fell last night. I've got blisters on my
hands from shoveling. I think the snowplow hides around the curve and waits
until i'm done shoveling the driveway. *******!

DEC 25 Merry ****ing Christmas! More friggen snow. If I ever get my hands
on that son-of-a-bitch who drives the snowplow I swear I'll kill the
bastard. Don't know why they don't use more salt on the roads to melt the
****ing ice.

DEC 27 More white **** last night. Been inside for three days, except for
shoveling out the driveway after that snowplow goes through every time.
Can't go anywhere, car is stuck in a mountain of white ****. The weatherman
says to expect another 10" of the **** again tonight. Do you know how many
shovels full of snow 10" is?

DEC 28 The ****ing weatherman was wrong. We got 34" of that white **** this
time. At this rate it won't melt before this summer. The snowplow got stuck
up in the road and that bastard came to the door and asked to borrow my
shovel. After I told him I had broken six shovels already shoveling all the
**** he pushed into the driveway, I broke my last one over his ****ing
head.

JAN 4 Finally got out of the house today. Went to the store to get food and
on the way back a damned deer ran in front of the car and I hit it. Did
about $3000 damage to the car. Those ****ing beasts should be killed. Wish
the hunters had killed them all last November.

MAY 3 Took the car to the garage in Town. Would you believe the thing is
rusting out from that ****ing salt they put all over the roads.

MAY 10 Moved to Florida. I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind
would ever live in that God-forsaken state of Vermont.

 

[OAG]

CFB Made my day. Funny, funny, funny!

 

[BUM]

I went to college in Burlington and CFB's text hits the spot but add this:

The snow is one thing...white, plentiful, and very long lasting. Its also cold cold COLD! I remember that squeeky crunch of dry frozen snow under my boots. It nearly drove me mad.

Remember Jack Nicholsen, Hereeeesssss Johnny!

Oh yeah, we also used to ram out car's front grills and bumpers into the plowed snow banks to keep the night wind from blowing under the hood to keep the battery from freezing.

Oh yeah, sometimes it gets so cold that you can pee on a car's windshield and crack it... we drank alot of beer... college hijinks, he he he that takes me back...

 

[tryan]

Weelll, the last 2 years have been very BAD winters .... NO SNOW!

There's roughly 5-6 inches on the grass in southern VT today .... BUT 1-2 feet forecasted over the next couple days! I hope it snows! Ski mts need the stuff.

Heard Mad River laid off thier entire staff just after Christmas ... NO SNOW; and they don't have the snow making equiptment.

 

[Nords]

Oh yeah, sometimes it gets so cold that you can pee on a car's windshield and crack it... we drank alot of beer... college hijinks, he he he that takes me back...

Some temperature-sensitive equipment just shouldn't be exposed to that sort of weather...

 

[HFWR]

Given it was cold enough for pee to freeze, I'm surpirsed Mr. Happy would even come out to play...

 

[bpp]

Heard Mad River laid off thier entire staff just after Christmas ...

Oh dear, sorry to hear that. Mad River Glen was my favorite ski area.

 

[Craig]

CFB, thanks for the laugh ... I do recall that series, probably from way back in W. NY days.

Well, we'll see soon what's up in Vermont. Certainly a long shot deal, but worth a look. You never know.