BofA Credit Card Bull**** Policy

TromboneAl

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This is a new one. I got an credit card agreement amendment letter from BofA today -- the kind of thing no one ever reads.

Here's one of the new policies:

MINIMUM FINANCE CHARGE

Your account will now have a minimum finance charge of $1.50 per month. You may reject this by writing us a letter telling us you reject this charge. We added a 1Minimum Finance Charge primarily due to a change in our business practices.

How do they get away with this stuff? I respect their right to put any kind of charges that they want, but this business of having a charge that you don't have to pay as long as you read the fine print is not right. I'm guessing that allowing rejection allows them to get around some regulation.

Mod EDIT: Changed code to quote to fix wider-than-screen problem. -BMJ
 
The "minimum finance charge" usually refers to the minimum amount they will charge you IF you incur any finance charge at all. In other words, if you have a $0.05 finance charge, they will charge you the min of $1.50. Sure that isn't what they mean?
 
I agree with Justin here. If you're still unhappy with BofA's finance policy, just sock drawer the card. There are plenty of CC fish in the sea.
 
Ah, yes, I rechecked the fine print, and you're right, Justin. Thanks for that info. I guess there's no point in mailing in my rejection then. What would I do without you guys?

You're right Cube, but the problem with switching would be that I have a security freeze (protection against ID theft) on my credit report, so that if I ever wanted to change company, I'd have to unfreeze that ($10 * 3 credit reporting agencies * 2 (DW & me)).

It's still strange that they have a policy, but say "you can reject this." Why is that?
 
TromboneAl said:
You're right Cube, but the problem with switching would be that I have a security freeze (protection against ID theft) on my credit report, so that if I ever wanted to change company, I'd have to unfreeze that ($10 * 3 credit reporting agencies * 2 (DW & me)).

When I applied for Penfed card, seems like they approved it instantly; I thought
maybe it was because I already had a couple times the requested credit limit on
deposit in the 6.25% CDs, but maybe they still require a credit check. Maybe a
thought if you DO have CD money there, or would consider one at the current
lower rates.

They're really helpful, so call and ask. Maybe I'm naive, but I feel better giving
my CC business to a CU.
 
TromboneAl said:
It's still strange that they have a policy, but say "you can reject this." Why is that?

From a legal theory standpoint, in order for a contract to be valid, there needs to be a "meeting of the minds" where T-Al and BofA both agree to the contract terms. BofA wants the contract to be valid because they want it to be enforceable because they want to collect their minimum finance charges. However, they don't want to call up all 6 bajillion cardholders individually and say, "Hey, are you OK with this?" so they send out these little notices that you can read if you want. If you subsequently do whatever it is they say that will indicate your agreement to the new terms, then you will have been considered to agree to the new terms and therefore the contract is valid and enforceable.

The process must be such that a reasonable person could have a way out of declining the contract modification. If not, then that violates some other legal theory that I can't remember offhand. Something along the lines of you can't coerce someone into a contract.

2Cor521
 
T-Al pays his credit card off every month in full so doesnt have to worry about it... ;)
 
TromboneAl said:
How do they get away with this stuff?

It's called having a government that is bought and paid for by big business.
Try to watch the PBS Frontline episode on credit-card companies; it's quite
incredible.
 
TromboneAl said:
You're right Cube, but the problem with switching would be that I have a security freeze (protection against ID theft) on my credit report, so that if I ever wanted to change company, I'd have to unfreeze that ($10 * 3 credit reporting agencies * 2 (DW & me)).

Hey Al,

I know I've sen it before but how'd ya freeze it. Would like to do...

Thx

W
 
Sombody at the CC company probably figured out they could make a few extra bucks each month by raising the minimum and to give everyone a chance to refuse makes it legal. They probably also know exactly how many replies they will get and it's all factored into their return on investment. Spend a little money on paper and postage and start counting the money.
 
T Al
Mighty nice of you to report this..........my copy went straight in tha dumpster. I would still write the letter, tho. I wonder what they charge if you reject the 1.50 minimum?
 
SecondCor521 said:
From a legal theory standpoint, in order for a contract to be valid, there needs to be a "meeting of the minds" where T-Al and BofA both agree to the contract terms. BofA wants the contract to be valid because they want it to be enforceable because they want to collect their minimum finance charges. However, they don't want to call up all 6 bajillion cardholders individually and say, "Hey, are you OK with this?" so they send out these little notices that you can read if you want. If you subsequently do whatever it is they say that will indicate your agreement to the new terms, then you will have been considered to agree to the new terms and therefore the contract is valid and enforceable.

The process must be such that a reasonable person could have a way out of declining the contract modification. If not, then that violates some other legal theory that I can't remember offhand. Something along the lines of you can't coerce someone into a contract.

2Cor521

You're close, but not exactly on point here. When you sign up for a credit card, you agree that the credit card company can amend the terms of the credit card agreement at any time, with X days notice (usually 15 days). Therefore, as a matter of contract law, all BOA has to do to get your assent (or "meeting of the minds") regarding the new contract term is to notify you of their intent to make the change (increase the minimum finance charge), and once notified, if you continue to use the card after the notice period has expired, your continued use of the card, by itself, is sufficient to indicate your assent to the new terms. There is abundant case law on this point, that your actions alone can express your assent to contract terms. Thus, BOA is not required to give you the option to opt out in writing order to get your assent to the new terms.

The reason why BOA gives its customers the option to opt out of the new minimum finance term by giving notice in writing, is to set up a defense to the argument that the new term is unconscionable. If they did not provide that option, an arbitrator might conclude that although the cardholder assented to the new term by their continued use of the card after notice, the cardholder really had no realistic choice if they wanted to continue to use the card, and therefore, the term was unconscionable and unenforceable. (In laymans terms, the new term was presented on a "take it or leave it" basis, with no real opportunity to bargain) They would then be facing a class action lawsuit on behalf of all of their cardholders. However, by offering a choice to reject in writing, BOA will argue that the new term was not unconscionable because the cardholder really did have a choice...he could have simply declined by giving written notice, and the new term would not have taken effect. If this argument prevails (and it might), then they would be able to succesfully defend a class action suit (or, more likely, it would not be brought in the first place) Of course, BOA knows full well that the vast majority of its cardholders simply don't read the fine print of every change to the cardholder's agreement, and even those that do probably won't care enough to write. And they probably know that the people who are diligent enough to actually read the fine print are the same people who are diligent enough to pay the bill in full, and they don't have to worry about finance charges in the first place. Therefore, BOA knows that only a tiny percentage of people will opt out, while the vast majority of people who pay finance charges will be charged the higher fee, and they have (arguably) innoculated themselves from an unconscionability challenge and an expensive class action suit.
 
JustCurious said:
You're close, but not exactly on point here. When you sign up for a credit card, you agree that the credit card company can amend the terms of the credit card agreement at any time, with X days notice (usually 15 days). Therefore, as a matter of contract law, all BOA has to do to get your assent (or "meeting of the minds") regarding the new contract term is to notify you of their intent to make the change (increase the minimum finance charge), and once notified, if you continue to use the card after the notice period has expired, your continued use of the card, by itself, is sufficient to indicate your assent to the new terms. There is abundant case law on this point, that your actions alone can express your assent to contract terms. Thus, BOA is not required to give you the option to opt out in writing order to get your assent to the new terms.

The reason why BOA gives its customers the option to opt out of the new minimum finance term by giving notice in writing, is to set up a defense to the argument that the new term is unconscionable. If they did not provide that option, an arbitrator might conclude that although the cardholder assented to the new term by their continued use of the card after notice, the cardholder really had no realistic choice if they wanted to continue to use the card, and therefore, the term was unconscionable and unenforceable. (In laymans terms, the new term was presented on a "take it or leave it" basis, with no real opportunity to bargain) They would then be facing a class action lawsuit on behalf of all of their cardholders. However, by offering a choice to reject in writing, BOA will argue that the new term was not unconscionable because the cardholder really did have a choice...he could have simply declined by giving written notice, and the new term would not have taken effect. If this argument prevails (and it might), then they would be able to succesfully defend a class action suit (or, more likely, it would not be brought in the first place) Of course, BOA knows full well that the vast majority of its cardholders simply don't read the fine print of every change to the cardholder's agreement, and even those that do probably won't care enough to write. And they probably know that the people who are diligent enough to actually read the fine print are the same people who are diligent enough to pay the bill in full, and they don't have to worry about finance charges in the first place. Therefore, BOA knows that only a tiny percentage of people will opt out, while the vast majority of people who pay finance charges will be charged the higher fee, and they have (arguably) innoculated themselves from an unconscionability challenge and an expensive class action suit.

Yeah, that. Good thing IANAL.

2Cor521
 
it's not clear to me why so many folks complain about credit cards ... we should all know the term to which we've agreed, and if we don't like those terms, we're not forced to use the damn card! what i know is that i'd never willingly pay the interest rate they charge ... so i don't! i pay the balance owed in a timely manner.
 
IANAL either (just learned this ;))

But, I think JustCurious is close but a bit off... IMO they allow you to opt out which will 'freeze' your old terms, but they would not allow you to charge on those terms anymore... but you would still be able to pay off any balance you had on the old agreement...

BTW, did you see the article about the Congress and how they are taking the CC companies over the coals:confused:? This one guy borrowed $3200, but had interest, late fees, over limit fees that totaled over $10,000... had paid over $6,000 on the balance.... he was in front of congress talking about the high fees..

Now, they are running to change them a bit so they don't get regulated..
 
Texas Proud said:
IANAL either (just learned this ;))

But, I think JustCurious is close but a bit off... IMO they allow you to opt out which will 'freeze' your old terms, but they would not allow you to charge on those terms anymore... but you would still be able to pay off any balance you had on the old agreement...

TexasProud, you are simply wrong. Which law school did you go to?
 
d said:
it's not clear to me why so many folks complain about credit cards ... we should all know the term to which we've agreed ...

Yeah, except the credit-card company didn' exactly agree to the terms - they did,
but with the right to amend the terms anytime they choose.

'Youbet', why do you say I'm naive, I believe which I agreed might be true in my
statement that I felt better about giving my CC biz to a CU instead of a bank ?
I prefer to think I'm idealistic, imagining we might have a government which
considers advancing the common good to be its main purpose.
 
I didn't say you were naive. You said you were naive, or that maybe you were naive.

Everybody and their brother sponsors credit cards these days: banks, CU's, fraternal organizations, retailers, foundations and on and on. It so happens my most used card is sponsored by the CU at the company I retired from. That's because their customer service is best. They answer the phone when I call. But I'm not nostalgic over it.

I don't trust credit card companies or want to bother to understand their terms in any depth, so I simply maximize their benefit to me on my terms and count on them for very little. DW and I use a CC for most all day to day expenditures and sometimes run up some significant balances when traveling. But, in the 37 years we've had CC's, we've never failed to pay the monthly bill and have never incurred a finance charge. It's convenient, we get a little float on the money, they give us points good for trinkets and it costs me nothing. That's all the involvement I want.

I don't count on them as my emergency fund or my banker. Just a necessary evil in today's world that can be used to advantage if you don't go beyond charge this month - pay next month.

If you say you're not naive, I'd say "Yes." ;)
 
JustCurious said:
TexasProud, you are simply wrong. Which law school did you go to?

as mentioned.... didn't go.... but what I said is what they did to my BIL who did object to a change in terms... he could not use it anymore for any charges.. don't know what they changed and don't care... or he could have told me wrong...

And which law school did you go to:confused:
 
Texas Proud said:
as mentioned.... didn't go.... but what I said is what they did to my BIL who did object to a change in terms... he could not use it anymore for any charges.. don't know what they changed and don't care... or he could have told me wrong...

And which law school did you go to:confused:

I graduated from a reputable law school, but I prefer not to identify it.

I am telling you why BOA did what they did because I know from my own legal training and experience in this area. Unlike you, I am not guessing, and I am not basing my answer on anectodal evidence from a brother in law which may or may not be accurate in the first place.
 
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