Texas and capital punishment

[Notmuchlonger]

If someone needed to fry it was this nugget head.


Dad gets 25 years for microwaving baby - Crime & courts - MSNBC.com

 

[Walt34]

I've heard that in Texas they have a saying "That guy needed killin'.

Sure applies there.

 

[bright eyed]

WTF? this is why i could never be a defense attorney...that poor baby...

 

[two4theroad]

I like what Ron White has to say about this:

"In Texas we have the death penalty and WE USE IT” You come to Texas and kill someone, we’ll kill you back, in fact when other states are talking about abolishing the death penalty my state is puttin in an express lane, you kill some one and there are 3 or more eye witnesses, you go to the front of the line folks!"

I personally think there are many crimes where the penalty should be the release of the convicted criminal to the family of the victim.

2fer

 

[packrat44]

There should be a Bar-B-Que with that guy being the main course.

 

[Texas Proud]

Being someone who actually was on a jury with the death penalty..... I kind of have toned down my rhetoric.....

Even thought the guy was very cruel, it is not a capital crime... and to tell the truth I do not think it would have been if she had died.... you have to have some more to get there... but they might have 'found' something else to get over the hump...

You THEN have a problem that you have to say this guy is a future.... dang.. can't remember the term... say danger to society.... and I would say he is not... so no death sentence...

 

[Walt34]

Being someone who actually was on a jury with the death penalty..... I kind of have toned down my rhetoric.....

Even thought the guy was very cruel, it is not a capital crime...

Would you be comfortable elaborating a bit more? What did the guy do, etc.

 

[ziggy29]

WTF? this is why i could never be a defense attorney...that poor baby...

I think it takes a special breed to be a defense attorney. I mean, I know the accused is entitled to a vigorous defense and is entitled to Constitutional protections, but I don't think I could do it. I can't imagine talking to my client and hearing (in private, protected by attorney-client privilege) that they did it, and still going in there and giving it all I had to get them acquitted.

Like I said, I respect that someone has to do it. But I couldn't live with myself knowing that I was working to secure the freedom of someone who admitted to doing some pretty terrible things.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

defense attorneys, honorable & required for democracy, are watchdogs of fascism which you can not fight without getting a little dirty.

as to punishment for someone who would microwave a baby, i have trouble enjoying life to the fullest just thinking that someone could do such a thing. if that guy was not already insane before, just imagine living with yourself after that.

 

[bright eyed]

defense attorneys, honorable & required for democracy, are watchdogs of fascism which you can not fight without getting a little dirty.

as to punishment for someone who would microwave a baby, i have trouble enjoying life to the fullest just thinking that someone could do such a thing. if that guy was not already insane before, just imagine living with yourself after that.

i agree, many of my dear friends are defense attorneys - i just couldn't do it!

also, on your second point - i've had a cringe in my stomach since reading the article - the microwave was just one of the string of attacks on that poor baby...i can't wrap my head around it and the idea of putting a baby in there!

sometimes the ability of humans to impose cruelty on each other is amazing...

 

[Walt34]

defense attorneys, honorable & required for democracy, are watchdogs of fascism which you can not fight without getting a little dirty.

The ones I've asked "How can you defend this (insert vile crime here) creep and then go home and sleep?" all say about that same thing.

They are, for the most part - every occupational group has a few that embarrass the others- decent and honorable people who feel that they are helping to make the justice system work as it was designed to do.

 

[Texas Proud]

Would you be comfortable elaborating a bit more? What did the guy do, etc.

He killed his ex girlfriend and then walked outside and killed her daughter in front of her friends... then went looking to kill her older daughter, but did not find her....

 

[Htown Harry]

Being someone who actually was on a jury with the death penalty..... I kind of have toned down my rhetoric.....

Even thought the guy was very cruel, it is not a capital crime... and to tell the truth I do not think it would have been if she had died.... you have to have some more to get there... but they might have 'found' something else to get over the hump...

You THEN have a problem that you have to say this guy is a future.... dang.. can't remember the term... say danger to society.... and I would say he is not... so no death sentence...

X2

In the Texas case I served on, the victim was shot during a stick-up, apparently because he only had $8 in his wallet. Capital murder was the charge because the victim died during the commission of a specified felony, armed robbery.

After guilt was established, the jury was instructed to determine if defendant's conduct was deliberate and if he would probably remain violent. A “yes” to both questions meant a death sentence. A “no” to either or both meant a life prison term. A third question asked jurors if mitigating evidence they heard convinced them a life sentence would be more appropriate.

As bad as the microwave case is, it's definitely not a capital murder case.

 

[Walt34]

He killed his ex girlfriend and then walked outside and killed her daughter in front of her friends... then went looking to kill her older daughter, but did not find her....

It can get complicated. I did learn that the shades of gray are infinite, few things are black & white especially with tangled relationship issues like that.

More often than not the victim had it coming. Doesn't make it right, but it can be understandable.

But shooting the armed robbery victim because he didn't have enough money on him? No - that one needs to be shot.

 

[Texas Proud]

More often than not the victim had it coming. Doesn't make it right, but it can be understandable.

Am I reading this RIGHT?

I am sorry, but nobody 'had it coming' to be killed.. or should I say MURDERED.

 

[Walt34]

Am I reading this RIGHT?

I am sorry, but nobody 'had it coming' to be killed.. or should I say MURDERED.

Yes you are reading it right. "Dysfunctional" doesn't begin to describe some family structures. Children literally tortured/belittled/starved for their entire lives and then they get big enough to strike back. It's hard to believe or comprehend until you've seen it up close and dirty.

Also happens with battered spouses a lot, probably a foreign concept to most on this forum but it is amazing what some women (and men) will put up with. Court orders notwithstanding, they do not protect anyone from a determined aggressor who cares nothing for the consequences. So for them the best form of self-defense may be a preemptive strike, or so they perceive. Whether that perception is legitimate is a jury question.

Some people simply do not understand any form of persuasion more subtle than a 12 gauge.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes you are reading it right. "Dysfunctional" doesn't begin to describe some family structures. Children literally tortured/belittled/starved for their entire lives and then they get big enough to strike back. It's hard to believe or comprehend until you've seen it up close and dirty.

Also happens with battered spouses a lot, probably a foreign concept to most on this forum but it is amazing what some women (and men) will put up with. Court orders notwithstanding, they do not protect anyone from a determined aggressor who cares nothing for the consequences. So for them the best form of self-defense may be a preemptive strike, or so they perceive. Whether that perception is legitimate is a jury question.

Some people simply do not understand any form of persuasion more subtle than a 12 gauge.

Uhhhhh.... WOW...

 

[haha]

So for them the best form of self-defense may be a preemptive strike, or so they perceive.

Wouldn't moving out be a less aggressive answer to this problem? What you are calling a pre-emptive strike is actually first degree murder.

Ha

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Wouldn't moving out be a less aggressive answer to this problem? What you are calling a pre-emptive strike is actually first degree murder.

Ha

Abuse does some pretty awful things to people mentally.

 

[Walt34]

Wouldn't moving out be a less aggressive answer to this problem? What you are calling a pre-emptive strike is actually first degree murder.

Ha

To a normal person in a normal environment you're correct. But perception is everything. Someone who is, shall we say, "mentally confused" from years of abuse perceives things differently. It actually may not occur to them that they have an opportunity to run. Happens a lot with battered spouses.

One sees that with kidnapping victims occasionally - they had what was in retrospect many clear opportunities to escape, but if they are so intimidated that they don't perceive those opportunities they won't even try.

To make it clear, I'm not defending murder or saying that it is acceptable. But almost everyone when backed into a sufficiently tight corner will fight back.

Ever see the movie "Eye of the Beholder"? It's from the '50's and deals with the issue of perception's accuracies and inaccuracies.

 

[clifp]

HTown and Texas, I am curious how the cases you were in ended up.

Texas, yt seems to me that in your case if the guy kills two people and they tries to kill a 3rd, the "need killin" rule applies.

In HTowns case a robbery gone bad, I'd be on the fence about giving somebody the death penalty.

 

[Orchidflower]

My mother used to volunteer at the local mental hospital where there was a lady who had just given birth, put the baby in the oven as "it was not ready yet" and fried it. She had been locked up for years already when my mother met her. You would have to have some screws loose to do that. Talk about post partum depression!!!!
As for me, I have been pro capital punishment since I was about 21, so it's been some 40 years now. I wish every State would adopt the usage of 'Ole Sparky or some means like Texas does. One of the best things about Texas is you have LOTS of freedoms and few State regulations to do what you want, but if you abuse those freedoms in Texas...watch out! I like that way of thinking myself by a State.

 

[Htown Harry]

HTown and Texas, I am curious how the cases you were in ended up...

In HTowns case a robbery gone bad, I'd be on the fence about giving somebody the death penalty.

We found the defendent guilty based on the clarity of the evidence presented to us during the guilt / innocence phase. There was no reasonable doubt on the facts: the accused was indeed the triggerman in an armed robbery-murder.

Entering into the punishment phase, however, there were twelve of us on the fence regarding the sentence. This is as it [-]should[/-] must be, Clifp.

Both sides' lawyers proceded to introduce much additional evidence and testimony relevant to the three questions noted in my previous post. This included evidence of additional armed robberies perpetrated by the accused, including several where victims had been shot or shot at.

We deliberated for two very difficult days before answering the three questions to the satisfaction of each and every juror. The man is now on death row.

No hard feelings, folks, but this will be my last post on this thread. My experiences on this one case are unlikely to further a discussion on matching crimes and punishments. (PM me if you have other questions.)

H