Statistics on "types" of layoffs ?

[Delawaredave5]

I've seen earlier recessions with spikes in unemployment towards/above "double digits".

But this one is much different - earlier recessions seemed more "blue collar concentrated" back in 70's and 80's -- in fact, I suspect white collar jobs grew through those periods.

This time, all the people I know who are laid off are white collar professional folks. This seems like the "college educated recession".

Anybody else see this ? Any statistics ?

Maybe there's no more blue collar folks to lay off.....

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I just recently heard the talking heads on tv say, " The lowest unemployment rate is the college educated"


So I dont know what to make of it heh.

 

[Delawaredave5]

I just recently heard the talking heads on tv say, " The lowest unemployment rate is the college educated"
.

I think the above statement is true. But I think college educated unemployment has historically been below 3%, with non-college educated at 6+%.

But now I think the gap between college and non-college is much closer (but college still lower).

Most of the people I know went to college. For 30 years, I could never name more than 2 or 3 people out of work at a given time.

Right now I can name 30-40 people I know who are out of work.

 

[tmm99]

Right now I can name 30-40 people I know who are out of work.

Wow. I don't even know that many people outside of work myself.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I think the above statement is true. But I think college educated unemployment has historically been below 3%, with non-college educated at 6+%.

But now I think the gap between college and non-college is much closer (but college still lower).

Most of the people I know went to college. For 30 years, I could never name more than 2 or 3 people out of work at a given time.

Right now I can name 30-40 people I know who are out of work.

Everyone I talk to is working. From blue collar to white collar. Probably the fields they are working have something to do with it. Medical/engineering/IT and some manufacturing (IE machinist/tool and die)

Obviously we know there is a high unemployment rate. Perhaps the people I know are just lucky?

 

[Delawaredave5]

Wow. I don't even know that many people outside of work myself.

My contact manager has over 2,000 names in it - but probably 500-ish that I've had any contact with over last year.

So if I know 40 people out-of-work, out of 500 "population" - that's 8% - actually around average.

However, that's still 10x what I'm used to.

 

[farmerbrown]

I have seen a lot of companies do drug testing and lower or let go of there temp agencies. I have not seen a lot of full time workers laid off. I know of 27 entry level jobs that no one wants right now because there to good to do the work.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I have seen a lot of companies do drug testing and lower or let go of there temp agencies. I have not seen a lot of full time workers laid off. I know of 27 entry level jobs that no one wants right now because there to good to do the work.

Im curious farmerbrown. What entry level jobs are you talking about?

 

[farmerbrown]

I’m sorry I was not thinking. The companies that drug tested and let go of there temp workers are manufacturing jobs.

The jobs I know of are dish washing, simple farm jobs, and janitorial jobs.

 

[Tom52]

I think it depends on the industry

Our small company was 30 people about a year ago. There are 19 of us left and I am sure we will lose another 3 or 4 within a month or two. Of those that are already gone about half have college degrees.

In addition to that the remaining employees have all taken pay/benefit cuts in the range of 20-25%. We are tied to the US auto industry so we are suffering.

 

[DayDreaming]

My gut feeling is that you're right about more white collar workers being laid off now. I can't point to any statistics but it seems that more and more white collar jobs are being outsourced to lower cost (ha) overseas places. That's been where blue collar jobs have been going for a long time, now white collar is catching up.

Is a FIREd person considered gray collar?

 

[bbbamI]

Is a FIREd person considered gray collar?

My tee shirts don't have collars......

 

[dex]

But this one is much different - earlier recessions seemed more "blue collar concentrated" back in 70's and 80's -- in fact, I suspect white collar jobs grew through those periods.

This is not accurate. From the early 80s to the dot.com bust we have had rolling recessions throughout the nation - rust belt workers in the early 80s, middle management in the middle 80s for example.

This time, all the people I know who are laid off are white collar professional folks. This seems like the "college educated recession".

Our economy has changed over the past 40 years and the traditional stereotypes don't really apply any more. Especially with the rise of the service industry.

It may appear to be more of a college education recession because the news media relates to that group better.

 

[JPatrick]

I read a snippet the other day noting that the unemployment rate for 20 to 29 year olds was ~ 14%, many of them recent college grads.
I don't have the figure here, but the rate of adult kids living with their folks is very high.

 

[Delawaredave5]

This is interesting (or at least graphical...) Shows geographically how the job market deteriorated - but does not split between college / non-coll jobs.

An interactive map of vanishing employment across the country. - By Chris Wilson - Slate Magazine

 

[Life_is_Good]

But this one is much different - earlier recessions seemed more "blue collar concentrated" back in 70's and 80's -- in fact, I suspect white collar jobs grew through those periods.

This time, all the people I know who are laid off are white collar professional folks. This seems like the "college educated recession".

Anybody else see this ? Any statistics ?

Maybe there's no more blue collar folks to lay off.....

I respectfully disagree....... it's really more a function of the area in which you live. I live in Oregon which (used to) support a lot of RV manufacturers. About 3 of the major RV manufacturing firms all went bankrupt this past Christmas which put thousands of workers out of work - all within the same geographic area. My son-in-law is one of the many blue collar workers affected. All of a sudden there are thousands of workers looking for work in a bad economy. There are not many jobs where these folks can go.

You must live in a white collar area - think bigger, like GM.

 

[Tadpole]

I've seen earlier recessions with spikes in unemployment towards/above "double digits".

But this one is much different - earlier recessions seemed more "blue collar concentrated" back in 70's and 80's -- in fact, I suspect white collar jobs grew through those periods.

This time, all the people I know who are laid off are white collar professional folks. This seems like the "college educated recession".

Anybody else see this ? Any statistics ?

Maybe there's no more blue collar folks to lay off.....

If you live in Delaware then you know the solution they have found. That 8% decrease in state employee salaries is producing more retirements according to my husband. Jobs are opening in Delaware as we speak. Maybe many of the older white collars that have been laid off are just retiring earlier than they expected. Blue collar workers not eligible for SS probably don't have that luxury.

 

[jimnjana]

This table should answer the question about education level and unemployment rate:

Table A-4. Employment status of the civilian population 25 years and over by educational attainment

Jim

 

[DangerMouse]

My former company has shrunk from 275 employees to 95 before the last round of layoffs. The majority of the layoffs would have been college educated. Last I heard, many were struggling to find employment.

 

[Delawaredave5]

If you live in Delaware then you know the solution they have found. That 8% decrease in state employee salaries is producing more retirements according to my husband. Jobs are opening in Delaware as we speak. Maybe many of the older white collars that have been laid off are just retiring earlier than they expected. Blue collar workers not eligible for SS probably don't have that luxury.

Jobs are not opening in DE. The 8% decrease never happened and state employees are "hanging on to their jobs" like company folks. Several thousand people have been laid off by area banks, DuPont, and closing of GM and Chrysler plants.

Majority of bank and DuPont jobs were college educated. I'd bet 1/2 of auto jobs were same.

IMHO, this clearly is a "white collar oriented" recession. In earlier recessions, any white collar folks let go in manufacturing were absorbed by banking, health care, and retail.

Unfortunately not this time - and in fact retail and banking are leading the layoffs.

 

[jimnjana]

IMHO, this clearly is a "white collar oriented" recession. In earlier recessions, any white collar folks let go in manufacturing were absorbed by banking, health care, and retail.

Maybe the overall #s reflected by the Bureau of Labor Statistics do not apply in your area. I don't disagree about white collars employees not being able to find white collar jobs, however, blue collar employees are having trouble finding any kind of job. (Well, jobs that fit their self image, one's that don't require too much work, oops wrong thread)

Jim

 

[ziggy29]

Maybe the overall #s reflected by the Bureau of Labor Statistics do not apply in your area. I don't disagree about white collars employees not being able to find white collar jobs, however, blue collar employees are having trouble finding any kind of job. (Well, jobs that fit their self image, one's that don't require too much work, oops wrong thread)

True. But as the case of GM and other automakers have shown us, if you're a blue collar shop with under collective bargaining, it can be a lot harder and/or more costly to lay off blue collar workers than salaried, non-union white collar workers. So some manufacturing firms facing trouble may cut the white collar side first. And the white collar side is more likely to be laid off as opposed to being offered early retirement incentives.

 

[aaronc879]

In my area(Wisconsin), almost all the lay-offs I hear about are blue-collar manufacturing jobs. The company I work for never laid anyone off and has been hiring for the last few months and still are. I'm a machine operator and my department has a back log large enough to last thru the end of the year so not all manufacturing is struggling. I don't personally know anyone who has lost there job due to the recession.
I'm non-union which means less pay and no retirement benefits but far less chance of being laid off.

 

[ziggy29]

I'm non-union which means less pay and no retirement benefits but far less chance of being laid off.

It's interesting. Obviously I don't want to see this become a political union/non-union debate, but it is interesting to see how company executives operate. When they have a good excuse to hack away at union jobs according to the law and the CBA governing the contract, they'll do so. But some unions (including the UAW) are historically pretty strong about negotiating difficult and expensive terms for laying off workers. In addition -- and perhaps more to the point -- with the automakers, the layoffs would have to come with the cheaper less senior workers, not the ones under "legacy" health care, pension plans and wage scales that are the most costly.

I think that's why they aim for "early retirement incentives" instead of layoffs in their blue collar jobs -- the union labor they'd *really* want off the payroll for cost containment purposes can't easily be laid off under their CBA. But they can be sweet-talked into retirement.

 

[jimnjana]

Ziggy,

All I'm trying to say is that it is hard to say this is a White collar Recession when the unemployment rate for those w/o high school diploma is more than 3x the rate for those with College Degrees. Generally speaking, Blue collar workers fall into the w/o HS diploma and only HS Diploma categories.

Jim