Work Collapses Around Me

[Bestwifeever]

...For what it's worth, the previous solution was something I did myself over a couple weekends outside of my regular work and while I was happy to help then and we still have the solution so it could probably be done more quickly this time, I cannot make a reasonable work-life balance that includes that much work. I worked seven days a week for about six months doing my regular job and "saving" people from other problems at this company a couple years ago. Just because I can take on extra work (always uncompensated) doesn't mean I always should.....

I don't blame you for not suggesting the above solution (you work uncompensated for two weekends outside your regular work; presumably the company knew you did this and did not see a need to compesate you).

This does not sound like a solution to a problem imho, but another problem (why can a work-related matter not get done without uncompensated employees having to take it home?) that management needs to solve.

 

[KingB]

If you are in good terms with your old boss and you knew the solution to the problem then, why did you not inform your old boss?

 

[East Texas]

You've done some insightful analysis of yourself and the situation. This is where you have a choice: be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. You need to get control of your fear and your anger. Then you need to decide what you want to do. You need a Plan A, a Plan B, and a Plan C - mutually exclusive or variations of each other.

The behavior you presented so far would be a guarantee to lose your job. You've got some damage control to do. Unfortunately, your new manager knows exactly how you feel. Yes... that's a given. There are no secrets in the corporate world, only versions of the truth.

I have fired employees for bad attitudes which adversely impacted the morale of the team. You can't get productive work from a team if one of the team members is complaining all the time.

There are many discussions about how nature (familial) and nurture (environmental) influence who we are. The bottom line is it's our choices that define us. It's time to start making better decisions.

 

[growing_older]

Old boss knew. So did the guy who runs the machine and the head or programming (who was also in the brainstorming meeting). We did do the solution last year when we had a similar problem. Which is to say *I* personally did it and then showed everyone involved exactly what I did. Apparently it's not a permanent fix and lasts about a year. There is even an entry on the diagram of the factory floor, showing the solution, which was PRESENTED at the brainstorming, so the guy who presented and the guy who made the diagram presumably also know. I could have stepped up and volunteered more unpaid overtime to do again what apparently our institutional memory has forgotten, but I don't think it's forgotten. I think it's an under appreciated solution and whoever does it, won't even get the private attaboy that old boss used to be so good at using to motivate people. I am confident that if old boss were still here, we wouldn't have even got as far as brainstorming, since we would have talked about at a staff meeting and had volunteers (me, if no one else, but likely several people would have stepped forward) who would go make a fix and it would never have even risen to the level of issue it now is. That's in fact what happened with a similar issue last year.

What I'm not sure I've conveyed sufficiently is that this is NOT my job or even in the assigned area for my group. If we had an accountant on staff who also happens to know how to install a new mouse on his computer, I would be hard pressed to suggest that he should be in trouble if he does not install the mouse for all new employees, or be proactive about volunteering to help all employees who have a problem with their mouse. It is NOT his job, he does have a full time job he needs to do, and there is even a group who is supposed to deal with employee's routine IT problems. Likewise, there is a group who takes care of these machines and I am fortunately on good terms with them, because I can easily see them resenting my dropping in occasionally to solve their problems. If I made a big deal about it or hogged credit, they would certainly resent me, so I do it quietly, key folks like old boss, head of programming, machine operators and head of machine group all know, all knew before and all mutually agreed on the low key approach, and I even have worked some with the machine group to try to teach them how to do this.

I don't think I am in the wrong here, even though I could have volunteered more info at that meeting. I even have a date Monday morning with the machine guy to fix it and my code is almost half done, so I should be ready by then. I appreciate the frank feedback and I am indeed thinking deeply about it (even as I am saying my current thinking is I'm still a good guy, I'm still wondering if I'm fooling myself). But I am also thinking that the behavior of other people in the meeting tells me that there are deep dysfunctional problems at this place and I need to decide what I want to do. Apparently old boss insulated us from a lot of craziness. I do not think I want to volunteer to solve everything and spend huge hours doing so. I'm willing to make some sacrifices to contribute, but want to be hopeful that it will help, or at least be appreciated, and I'm not seeing anything to make me think that yet. Maybe I need to understand how far I'm willing to go on hope alone before I see some hint that things will improve. I hate to think I'm just slow to realize how bad it's going to be and the best people are all either leaving or left already. Which means maybe I am the mediocre old guy who wasn't willing to jump ship quickly enough. Is this a giant ER hint that I'm over-ready to stop working?

 

[haha]

I wouldn't over elevate what people here say. We have no real information, so our responses will mostly just reflect our prejudices and habitual ways of responding to seemingly similar events.
I think you are wise to keep an eye out for bureaucratic minefields, but also that worrying about a little temporary overtime would be an error. This is going to be a lot less disruptive than looking for a new job.

Ha

 

[Midpack]

I can only hope...

 

[lemming]

thoughts, If it is the exact same problem in a system your company developed that you solved for one customer and didn't change for other customers until their system failed-then you failed. And that's on the head of the old great boss.
Maybe no one recognized the problem as caused by the same issue as the last problem.Since you say you single handedly worked it out ,no one else thinks of it as the same thing. If you believe that your old solution would work-put it out there . After all if one size fits all , your workload should not increase that much.
And they will be hiring new blood that will be wanting to excel.

 

[growing_older]

I was pretty shocked that some of the feedback here suggests that I am the problem and am likely to be fired, or at least deserved to be. Maybe everyone thinks they are a good person, but I totally didn't expect that response.

But I am also shocked by realizing that I would feel a certain amount of relief if that were to happen. I am agonizing over my decision whether to accelerate my ER timetable and I do not have the total assets I planned on, but I would also be pretty relieved to have this decision made for me. Another part of the situation I need to think about.

 

[growing_older]

If it is the exact same problem in a system your company developed that you solved for one customer and didn't change for other customers until their system failed-then you failed.

The machine in question is on our factory floor, and it isn't broken, it's just not running as fast as we want. It's the same customer who wanted more output last year and the fix worked at that time. Apparently the fix is temporary and a year later, we are back to the same slow behavior. No one is shipping known defective anythings to anyone. We could run the machine longer each day. We could buy another machine. We could apply a new version of the speed fix again. Nothing about any of this has anything to do with our billing system and none of it has anything to do with me, except I'm good at programming things, so I think I can probably fix it again (and promised the operator I would try on Monday before work).

I cannot seem to emphasize enough, this is NOT my area of responsibility and I only accidentally got involved in the first place. It is not my job and has never been any part of my job, and I really don't think I deserve to be fired for failing to do someone else's job on my own time after hours. Honestly, I'm not even sure it's someone else's job except maybe the original supplier. We don't expect the operators to reprogram the machines, and we don't expect the programming (setup) group to give the machines new capabilities. It's a facility that's built into the machine, but as far as I know, no one but me has ever tried to use it to change performance. I've shown other people how, but it's way outside what they usually do, so they apparently don't feel able to do it. I don't see how firing me helps anyone.

 

[Amethyst]

As my dad used to say, "Every day when you leave work, think 'Ka-ching!'" You just earned that much more money.

In my book, four years to accumulate retirement $$ would outweigh four years of sucky job situation, unless you have reliably identified the job itself as a true, incessant drain on your mental and physical health (which some members have).

There will no doubt be decades of retirement for you to ponder whether you made the right decision, by pulling the plug before your desired "number" is reached.

Amethyst

I was pretty shocked that some of the feedback here suggests that I am the problem and am likely to be fired, or at least deserved to be. Maybe everyone thinks they are a good person, but I totally didn't expect that response.

But I am also shocked by realizing that I would feel a certain amount of relief if that were to happen. I am agonizing over my decision whether to accelerate my ER timetable and I do not have the total assets I planned on, but I would also be pretty relieved to have this decision made for me. Another part of the situation I need to think about.

 

[Rustic23]

"It's not my job" is one phrase that most managers detest. I have watched people walk by a piece of paper on the floor and not pick it up because 'It's not my job'. If you were in management which type of employee would you like to have or consider for promotion. One that went the extra mile, suggested solutions to your problems, as well as doing their job well, or one that only did their job well. One is far more valuable to the company. One is going to get raises above the other, and one is going to be let go before the other.

I also can not relate to 'I'm miffed because I did not get a say in who is my new boss, like last time'. I don't ever remember even being ask. In fact I would have been shocked if i were.

I think you have tree real choices. Talk to your old boss, see if there really is a job there, then quit. You obviously do not have the best interest in your present employer at heart. Two, focus on early retirement, go into a shell and hope you make it before they have the next round of layoffs. Three, go to your present boss, tell him the solution, let him know you really don't want to be involved in it, but you will if it is necessary and work into the conversation that a bonus or raise for the extra work would sure come in handy.

 

[travelover]

........ if you worked for me and I found out you had the solution to a customers problem and did not come forward with it, I would fire you...............

Rustic is 100% correct, and I'd have you terminated also.............

Aren't you glad you posted this thread?

 

[growing_older]

I am glad I posted this thread, though I am startled by many of the responses. I AM the guy who picks up the paper on the floor when I see one. I was the guy who fixed this problem the last time. I am the guy who's programming this weekend and will fix it again Monday morning (BEFORE work starts, because policy is to put a full day in on my regular assigned work).

I hear loud and clear the idea that many posters here think my behavior was a fireable offense. I clearly don't understand that yet. I cannot spend all my off hours at the plant looking for problems to solve in other departments. I cannot crash any meeting I like and insist on them hearing out all my suggestions for how everyone else should work. That would surely get me fired.

In a meeting to look for ideas, I suggested several and volunteered to do them (implicitly without pay and on my own time). Any of which WILL work and solve this problem. But I did not mention the best idea, the one we tried before, the one several people also knew, which is another one that I can implement myself. That one I privately took to the most directly affected machine operator at the end of the meeting and arranged to take care of as soon as practical, Monday morning. If someone can clearly explain WHY this is an offense which should result in my termination, I do clearly want to understand. I am otherwise baffled. Perhaps it is because I didn't speak up in the public forum? It cannot be because I am not volunteering to take care of the problem, in fact I am. Perhaps it is because I am not involving my new boss more directly in the solution? I think I can accomplish this without making him look bad in any way, and in fact I am concerned about how to do just that now that he has started his research project. Perhaps it is because I am upset with all the changes and how many people have left, but while I say I am upset here, I do try to be positive and upbeat in my interactions at work.

Clearly I do not understand why I should be fired for this.

 

[Rustic23]

Your last explanation is, IMHO, is quite different from your first and earlier post. Early post came through to me 'I remember the problem, I know how to fix it, but I hate my new incompetent boss, I have given this place too much already, and I am not going to tell them the solution we used last time.'

No one said you should go out of your way to find other problems in the business and fix them on your own. However, if you did, you would be your boss's hero. No one said you should crash meetings. Believe me, I believe in the chain of command. You could go to your boss privately and tell him. It doesn't always work out but generally if you make your boss a hero, it will pay off for you.

As to why I said I would fire you? It came across to me, that you had the solution to the companies problems but your were just going to sit back and let them expand resources solving it for themselves. You did not have the best interest of the company at heart. No, I am not saying you should put their interest above yours, but in a lot of instances they are the same.

 

[Webzter]

And, the answer is... never come to a forum full of INTJ's if you have the list bit of doubt yourself

 

[growing_older]

Thank you, that helps a lot to understand. I have myself been in situations where I have tried to give constructive criticism to people and sometimes they have plenty of excuses and just cannot hear what I am telling them in a way they can get past their excuses. Since there are several people who suggested my behavior warrants dismissal, which would be a great concern to me, I do want to try to understand what those posters are telling me, even though my own excuses are still pretty loud in my head.

I did crash this meeting. I do remember the problem and know how to fix it and I didn't remind them what worked last time, though I do think they should have known it. It was on their slide set! I did tell them other good ideas. I did arrange to make the fix. I have given this place too much already. I don't know what the right thing to do is.

I cannot yet say I hate my new incompetent boss. I hardly know the guy and am alarmed by what I have seen, but I'm trying to hold off on judgment until I can at least talk to him a few times. I am letting the company expend resources unnecessarily as they have 2 guys spending 2 weeks cataloging ideas, but who am I to say they won't come up with an even better one. However in my defense, I had no idea they were going to do that and I only learned of it unofficially and I cannot think of any way to curtail it, short of saying "you don't need to do that, all 3 of the ideas I gave you are winners, and remember, there's an even better one we did last time" That sounds offensively arrogant to me.

 

[East Texas]

Clearly I do not understand why I should be fired for this.

Insubordination.

You're just not getting it. You're trying to justify your bad behavior and your bad attitude. You try to come across as if the company would fold without your expertise. I would have put up with you for about four hours and then pulled your badge and sent you out the door.

I understand why there is going to be a reorg. The "not my job" and "I know more than my boss" folks will be the first to go. The stovepipes will be eliminated and it will take less people to run the business.

And that's why they brought in new management without asking permission from the employees.

 

[Rustic23]

East Texas does make a good point. If they brought in new management without talking to the workers as they have in the past, it may be they want to do some house cleaning. In which case it is easier if familiarity is not a part of the equation. That is another reason to see your immediate supervisor and suggest a solution. It just may leave a good impression when he is trying to figure out who is going to get walking papers. If that is not the case, and they are not contemplating layoffs then you have really lost nothing.

 

[Patrick]

Insubordination.

Not to nitpick (OK, maybe it is nitpicky), but what he is doing is not really insubordination: "Insubordination is the act of a subordinate deliberately disobeying a lawful order." Insubordination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He may not be totally forthcoming with information he has in regard to solving the problem, but he wasn't ordered to fix it, so he's not disobeying an order.

 

[East Texas]

You used Wiki as a source? Really? Try Webster next time.

Definition of INSUBORDINATE

: disobedient to authority

— insubordinate noun
— in·sub·or·di·nate·ly adverb
— in·sub·or·di·na·tion \-ˌbȯr-də-ˈnā-shən\ noun

See insubordinate defined for English-language learners »

Examples of INSUBORDINATE

1. His behavior was unprofessional and insubordinate.
2. the junior officer was court-martialed for being insubordinate

First Known Use of INSUBORDINATE

circa 1828

 

[Patrick]

Definition of INSUBORDINATE

: disobedient to authority

— insubordinate noun
— in·sub·or·di·nate·ly adverb
— in·sub·or·di·na·tion \-ˌbȯr-də-ˈnā-shən\ noun

See insubordinate defined for English-language learners »

Examples of INSUBORDINATE

1. His behavior was unprofessional and insubordinate.
2. the junior officer was court-martialed for being insubordinate

First Known Use of INSUBORDINATE

circa 1828

Even by your definition he hasn't been insubordinate.

 

[East Texas]

He may not be totally forthcoming with information he has in regard to solving the problem, but he wasn't ordered to fix it, so he's not disobeying an order.

He's insubordinate.

• He's talking trash about his new boss and I guarantee you he's minimally following instructions at best.
• He's not offering solutions he knows about to customer problems.

Of those of us with years of management experience - if you take a poll right (fire or keep), the consensus would be to fire.

 

[Patrick]

He's insubordinate.

• He's talking trash about his new boss and I guarantee you he's minimally following instructions at best.
• He's not offering solutions he knows about to customer problems.

Of those of us with years of management experience - if you take a poll right (fire or keep), the consensus would be to fire.

He might be talking trash, but he's doing it on this forum, not at work. And he's withholding info, but that's not insurbordination. If he were fired for "insubordination" a good labor lawyer could easily get him his job back with backpay.

And, "... I guarantee you he's minimally following instructions at best" is just an assumption on your part.

 

[brewer12345]

Of those of us with years of management experience

Haaaahahahahaha!!!

Go back to the corner office and remain frigging clueless for a few years.

To OP:

You can stay there and see how it goes, but I would be willing to bet that in 6 months' time you will wish you had split sooner. Were I in your shoes, I would start looking.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Maybe re-phrase things to help understand....

Let's say you are driving through the desert in Nevada, and it's 200 miles to the next little town. You see a mom and her kids stuck on the side of the road, and obviously they have run out of gas. You just happen to have a siphon kit in your car, but you don't want to stop because you'll be late for your flight.

Do you stop anyway, knowing you might miss your flight and have to deal with the airline?

Or, since you have no legal obligation to help, do you let the lady deal with it herself, hoping that she can get help from someone else?