Work Collapses Around Me

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I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned this possibility, but I think it is worth considering, as it may change how you are thinking about the situation.

Since your original easy and straightforward solution to the problem only worked for a year, is it possible that the management (this new guy or maybe someone above him) has already explicitly decided that they want a different, more permanent solution to the problem?

For me, the fact that 1) you were not invited to the original meeting and 2) they did not pick up the solution that you said already worked makes me wonder how well it really worked in the first place and whether they weren't trying to "save you some face" as we say in China.

If I were you I would not make the changes on Monday without first discussing with the new manager. Note that you want to do what you can to improve conditions for the company and that you have a solution that you think will resolve the problem, at least temporarily, while they work out a more longer term fix. Indicate that you are available to help work out that longer-term fix if they feel that would be helpful to the team, and assuming the rest of your workload can be adjusted so that you can do this on regular hours. And indicate that if there is a reason you feel the original fix was not up to standard, you would like to know that and get feedback on what they think you could do to improve your approach to such things.

By approaching it this way, you kill multiple birds with the same stone. YOu open up the floor for dialogue with the new boss, you let him know you have certain skills and are willing to apply them wherever the company needs them, and you show that you are interested in/open to constructive criticism. All done transparently, while clarifying some of the boundaries that are important to you.

Good luck with it. If it were me, I would just try to hunker down and do my job as outlined in the job description, helping out with other things when asked but avoiding volunteerism. Not because I don't agree that it is best if you try to apply your skills wherever the company needs them, but because in THIS particular environment it doesn't look like it is going to be understood/appreciated. You are sticking your neck out and probably making more enemies than friends if you are making it look like other people are incompetent and can't do their jobs. That is a sad kind of situation to be in, especially when you have had a good boss who supported you in the past, but four years is not so long and if you can hang on and weather through this it may be easier than trying to work another transition.

You might be very good as a consultant, though, if there is a market for your services and special skill set. Consultants are supposed to know everything, and they get paid big bucks for it!

Good luck,

lhamo
 
Interesting thread. I can't judge from the discussion whether the workplace is really toxic or OP is creating his own environment. I do understand how people can become turned off by bad bosses. But many of the OP's statements remind me the old bureaucratic refrain, "its not in my job description," often spouted by intelligent but disgruntled employees whining about not wanting to do "so and so's" higher graded work unless they got promoted. They always complained about being passed over by lesser coworkers and never understood that the "lesser talented" drones that did move up were [-]always[/-] frequently the very ones who gladly pitched in to get the job done. Dude, you need to work on your attitude or you can expect the same thing wherever you go :).
 
Look at the big picture. Your goal is FI then RE. Cash flow is the main goal for the next 4-5 years. This job provides that. Do your job and if you are not happy start a job search. Keep in touch with your buds that left and send out a few resumes. You make your own breaks and testing the waters with a few interviews is not a bad backup plan. (Even though there is another old IT saying ‘Backups are for sissies’).

Don’t fall into the BS that loyalty or hard work is a two way street at companies now days. (Did they give a flip about your opinion?) The goal is cash flow. Let management wallow in their own ignorance and enjoy the show. Combine this with part of the IT infrastructure brain drain and they are probably over weighted with dead wood and loss of experience. Management/Finance 101 books are filled with case studies of poor decisions. It is always better to view in 3D.
 
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A great match between employee and boss is not easy to find. You had it, and now you don't.

If you'd never had it, you might not now be experiencing such disequilibrium.

Three strategies at once:

1. Grieve the loss

2. Work at keeping your current job (losing income would be disruptive). Pay attention to your body language, reading the politics, and that mixture of keeping your head down while being seen as a positive team player. (Being seen by the new boss as a team player is not always connected with whether a person is, in reality, a team player).

3. See what else is out there and get yourself a job offer or two to consider. Just because you get an offer doesn't mean you have to accept it. But if it's something that would be equally as good, once you have an offer in writing, you could go to current boss and say you wanted a chance to talk with him before you decide whether to accept it. You should be able to deduce from his response how you stand.

An older book called "Fire Your Boss" is a good read for anyone trying to keep a job and a healthy attitude at the same time (not the attitude that megacorp wants you to have). Look online for a used copy.

Kindest regards.
 
Next Chapter: I did find new boss Monday before applying my fix and told him what I had been up to, as well as told him about the other obvious solution. He seems like a nice enough guy, but I don't think he expected what he's finding here either. His take on the whole machine thing is please don't spend work time on it because it's not part of our responsibility, but I'm free to do whatever makes sense after hours. He didn't seem bothered about the obvious idea not coming up in brainstorming and wanted to know how often we got pulled into what he called "irrelevant side projects" So I'm hopefully taking this to mean that I'm unlikely to be in trouble for not speaking up enough.

Today we lost another engineer and also the head or programming. New boss took me out to lunch, I think as much to develop a working relationship as to try to look for ideas why turnover has been so high. I tried to suggest we used to be more collaborative without sounding hostile to the change in leadership. For his part, he mentioned feeling he might be in over his head, so I'm hopeful he may be open to a less dictatorial style. At least he seems more human and approachable than my first impressions. I think I am right that things are not going well here, but it doesn't seem like he is the source of the problems. At worst he seems like he may be contributing by accidentally adding additional shocks to the other problems. I don't know if this is the kind of collapse that a company can recover from. Maybe I can hold out for 4-5 more years, or maybe I have to be ready to move again if things get worse.

I did also see the company owner Monday morning and he came by to say he knew there had been issues with lots of people leaving (this was before the latest 2) and he hoped I was not thinking of leaving, so I hope that's some indication I at least have the option of staying here.
 
Good! It sounds like things are working out nicely after all. Maybe everything will get ironed out.
 
Yes, it sounds like things are going well.

For his part, he mentioned feeling he might be in over his head . . .
Seems like a very odd thing to say to a subordinate he's just getting to know. Has this guy led people before? There's nothing wrong with being honest, but there are different ways to say the same thing that might be better.
 
As for the controversy about "it's not my job" I don't know any better way to say this.

If I find a small mess in the restroom, I likely quietly straighten it up. If I find a big disgusting mess there, I will likely alert whoever is responsible for facilities. If I see a pattern of messes, I might tell people, but I would not put in overtime (unpaid) on a program of restroom monitoring and reporting. It's not my job. I'm happy to be helpful, but I need to pay primary attention to my actual job and not go looking for unrelated work I could do around the company.

I realize that this particular phrase can be overused and even that it has acquired some emotional charge as a cop-out for disgruntled or lazy employees. But that's not how I'm trying to use it. I do literally mean that I have an assigned area of responsibility and the machine performance problems are not part of it. There are other people who are responsible for that. I'm okay with helping them, I'll even volunteer to help them, but I can't just do whatever I want there without interfering with their official responsibilities. Then I'd really be in trouble. I need their permission for any changes or even for taking time to look it over.

I'm trying to be clear that this problem is not assigned to me, not assigned to any of my immediate coworkers, not assigned to my department. When I talked to my new boss about it, his words were "That's not our job" It's not that I'm a whining malcontent, or even a bad team player. It's that this is a problem so much belonging to another part of the company that I have to be careful who owns it before potentially interfering.
 
Glad to hear it turned out well. I think you'll feel better about your working relationship with your manager from now on, now that the ice has been broken.
 
Actually I feel sorry for your new boss, imagine what it must be for him to wade into this pond of alligators. If you convey that you will to what you can to support him and the company's success you are likely to have internal cheerleaders. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep your eyes open for other opportunities but by building bridges internally you may increase your chances externally.

Potential employers always look to a candidates former relationships as a predictor of how they will behave in a new one. Never 'dis an old boss because the potential new boss sees him/herself as the future target of critique. Screen on skills, hire on fit is the classic comment. "Fit" is the behavioral factor.

Best wishes in surviving this transition, it is always healthier to feel appreciated - and you have the opportunity to create that condition.
 
I personally would be headed for the door now, given what you know and the ramp up in turnover.
 
Me too, but it is easier to find a new job when the current one is not acidic.
 
Loyalty and communication are only from the worker to the manager? You can't be serious, especially in this case.
You miss-read me. Communication is only top-down. Loyalty is only bottom-up. Expect nothing else.

When the OP relates a work story that includes, 'I didn't get to help choose my new boss (absurd IMO),' .....
In this case, I agree. Unless this guy works for the Israeli army, staff employees do not have this right. In my case, I do get to choose my new boss...every time I take a new contract. I have found that it is very important who I work for. Life is too short. I have turned down assignments because of bad vibes and regretted a few that I took because the job was too attractive. I know better now and can usually spot a stinker before it goes anywhere. The cost is that I must be extraordinarily portable. On the other hand, there are people I would walk through fire for.
 
Would you agree that the commotion at the company is not a good sign? It may be that something has changed that the OP is not aware of. We see management's problem retaining valuable staff. We may not see a collapse of their markets or a change in ownership coming. Something is causing all these folks to jump ship. They cannot all have drunk cool-aid.
 
I would think long and hard before I headed for the door. I would not turn down a good offer, but you have less than two years with your current employer. You were let go by your previous employer. IMHO, two years is at the bottom of time for job swapping.
 
I would think long and hard before I headed for the door. I would not turn down a good offer, but you have less than two years with your current employer. You were let go by your previous employer. IMHO, two years is at the bottom of time for job swapping.

In software, 2 years is plenty of time at one employer.
 
I would think long and hard before I headed for the door. I would not turn down a good offer, but you have less than two years with your current employer. You were let go by your previous employer. IMHO, two years is at the bottom of time for job swapping.

For good talent, nobody cares how long you were at your last job.
 
Travelover,
Do I need to point there are 70 post between these two quotes. In those quotes the OP modified/clarified his position! At least your post would be more honest! I was well aware of the first quote when I wrote the second. Between the two quotes, I learned that the OP had been fired from his last job, the head of his company talked to him and stated how much he was appreciated, he met with his new boss, he appears to be forming a different attitude about the competency of his boss, and quite a bit more.

Based on the information he presented in his original post, I would fire him. Based on his clarifications after that the position he put forth in his original post do not seem to be what actually exist at the corporation, not is his place within the corporation as dire as he set forth.
 
Travelover,
Do I need to point there are 70 post between these two quotes. ...........

Sorry, I was just practicing in case I decide to go into politics.......:LOL:
 
Travelover,
Do I need to point there are 70 post between these two quotes. In those quotes the OP modified/clarified his position! At least your post would be more honest! I was well aware of the first quote when I wrote the second. Between the two quotes, I learned that the OP had been fired from his last job, the head of his company talked to him and stated how much he was appreciated, he met with his new boss, he appears to be forming a different attitude about the competency of his boss, and quite a bit more.

Based on the information he presented in his original post, I would fire him. Based on his clarifications after that the position he put forth in his original post do not seem to be what actually exist at the corporation, not is his place within the corporation as dire as he set forth.
+1 I too was about to post something positive about staying in light of the new info despite the fact that I earlier questioned whether OP's actions merited firing.

Both the new boss and the CEO have approached OP directly for input and support. That could mean they are earnestly trying to do what's best or could mean the company is tumbling over a cliff. Only OP can decide. :)
 
so sooner or later someone may remember that and ask me a direct question. Until then, I am observing and trying to make up my mind what to do.


That may come back to haunt you. If I were a manager and found out that someone had the solution but was doing the "it's not my job" kind of thing, I'd have their name at the top of the list for 're-structuring'.

It can't hurt to butter the bread a little with the new person. Even if you do make him look better, so what.... you're on your way to retirement anyhow.

I'd pull a "Eureka!" and approach him/her privately with a "possible" solution. Mention that you think it worked before. He might just appreciate it enough to let you live the next 4 or 5 years in peace as a 'company man".

If, on the other hand, he blows you off, then it's every man for himself and just coast until you can get out.
 
A friendly word of caution here... working overtime does not necessarily mean you have too much work. It may mean more ominous things such as you're not organized, you expand the task to fit the time allocated for the task (e.g. taking an hour to do a 30 minute task), you slack off during the work day and have to put in the extra time to compensate, or you just don't know what you're doing. Also, if you're at work that much, then family time suffers.

I would not allow my employees to work overtime except in extraordinary situations.


I used to do the whole overtime, work 7 days a week, take on everyone's problems kind of job. When a family crisis came up and I had to cut back on hours, I was accused of being less productive and was eventually threatened with job loss. I quit before that happened (after the boss told me he couldn't wait for my father to die so things could get back to normal in the office) and it took 4 people to replace me.

When I moved to this new job, I started on the same track but my new boss called me in and told me exactly what you said above. He refused to allow me to do overtime unless he specifically asked for it.

I had never looked at it that way. Now that I'm the boss, I say the same things to my staff.
 
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