My reason for urgently needing a HELOC

[FUEGO]

I hope everyone involved realizes you never give money to a gambler to pay their debts down because it will almost never make it that far. The mind of the gambling addict says to bet one more hand and turn that small stash into a bigger one so they can pay off more of their debts. And that of course never happens. WHOOSH! Gone.

This is exactly what has happened in SIL's case. She borrowed well over $10k from her mother six months ago (see early parts of the thread) "to pay down gambling debt" and her gambling debt is apparently bigger than ever now.

 

[FUEGO]

Small saving grace but at least this addiction isn't one that alters the user's consciousness or personality like alcohol and drugs do, so your children shouldn't be physically at risk when they see her.

I'm not entirely sure that is true. Especially after SIL has been up for 3 days straight gambling. But I don't think SIL would intentionally hurt my kids.

A more worrisome outcome would be she can't manage to repay her "friends" and one of them comes in guns a blazing demanding money. I have no reason to think a threat currently exists, but I know at least one of the creditor/friends is a gun nut and a little strange.

 

[Westernskies]

....is a gun nut and a little strange.

Careful there, amigo...

 

[Sarah in SC]

WS, have you been loan-sharking again?

 

[FUEGO]

Careful there, amigo...

Gun nuts are ok. Add that to "a little strange", and being on the receiving end of being shorted of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and I don't want that person inflicting collateral damage on my kids.

 

[FUEGO]

Update for the still curious voyeurs.

I talked to my brother in law (gambling SIL's husband) this week during our annual family beach trip. He says things have continued to get worse but he is persevering.

They sold their unencumbered SUV roughly a year ago for $20-25k or so. Apparently all that money is gone, mostly to pay off gambling debts, but I'm sure also just spent on stuff. Gambling debt is as high as ever - $50k at least from what BIL mentioned to me, but I didn't ask for an exhaustive list and he wasn't intending to provide one to me.

BIL and SIL essentially have separate finances at this point. BIL will occasionally give SIL $50 or $100 to buy groceries for their kids, and that generally gets spent by SIL on food for the kids.

BIL says that SIL is still deluded about how to get out of this mess, thinking that more gambling is the way to go, because that is the only way to get out of this hole. She is hoping to win the lottery (lol). I quickly pointed out to BIL that she would be broke within a year or two even if she did win the lottery.

BIL's focus and goals are to do the best thing for his kids who are in 6th, 9th, and 11th grades. At this point he is of the opinion that keeping the family intact is the best course for his kids. I think part of the rationale stems from knowing what would possibly happen in a divorce court to his finances - outcome could be worse than having the leaking sieve of a wife blowing through all her money. His money remains his, he just has to pay most of the family's expenses. Another motivation for not divorcing his wife is religious in nature I think.

BIL is instituting tough love on his wife. She now has 2 jobs so works 80 hours a week between the two, including a looong 30-45 minute commute to her 2nd job (night shift). Her 2nd job is in a factory, so also requires physical exertion. I think she has been working like this for a few months now. It provides her enough money to pay her gambling loan interest (5% per month on $xx,xxx in debt). And it exhausts her so she is too tired to gamble, and requires her to be at work on weekends and at night so she doesn't have time off to gamble on weekends (when her gambling buds gamble). The downside is that her and BIL and their kids could only stay at the beach with us for approximately 16 hours before they had to leave so SIL could go back to work on the night shift.

Externally, nothing appears to have changed to us outside observers, but internally I think BIL has figured out how to cope with an untenable situation.

Hope you enjoyed your daily dose of schadenfreude.

 

[haha]

Brother in law is just one more victim in a long line of men who succumbed to the dreaded p-whipping. No scadenfreude from this quarter, I consider him a fellow wanderer in the desert and extend my best wishes to him.

Ha

 

[travelover]

Thanks for the update, though I'm sorry that it is not better news. Reading this tale of woe makes my somewhat parasitic relatives easier to take.

 

[clifp]

Brother in law is just one more victim in a long line of men who succumbed to the dreaded p-whipping. No scadenfreude from this quarter, I consider him a fellow wanderer in the desert and extend my best wishes to him.

Ha

I am not sure it seems to me that BIL has pretty good handle on the situation. I like the plan work her so hard that she doesn't have time or energy to gamble. I am guessing at this point she is to tired for them to have much energy for sex life. I think BIL is just being a good dad and congratulations to him for doing it.

Thanks for the update, it is always a good warning for me as poker player to understand the what is happening to the losers.

 

[Nords]

Thanks for the update, it is always a good warning for me as poker player to understand the what is happening to the losers.

Don't take any IOUs, and make the military guys repay you from an allotment!

 

[chris2008]

Thanks for the update, no schadenfreude at all. I feel sorry for BIL + kids, and hope that the hard work will initiate some change of mind in SIL. A group like Al anon might help BIL and kids to cope and stay strong.

 

[obgyn65]

+1. I feel sad instead.

Thanks for the update, no schadenfreude at all.

 

[TromboneAl]

Very interesting that something like this can continue for over a a year and a half.

Thanks for the update. I don't know if it's schraedderfructose or "boy I'm glad that's not me," but it is fascinating.

 

[rescueme]

At this point he is of the opinion that keeping the family intact is the best course for his kids.

Being raised by dysfunctional parents, I can tell you that this is the worst thing that can be done for the kids.

As you said, he's doing it to help himself (financial wise). Kids are not dumb; they know what's going on and are also put under much pressure by the actions of adults that don't know better.

Getting them out of the day to day "drama", while difficult, may be the best thing for them.
I lived with the situation (won't go into the details) until I left home. My brothers did not have that option, but things got better after my parents finally divorced.

Never use the children as an excuse not to make the hard decisions, which need to be made.

Been there - lived that.

Just my $.02.

 

[MichaelB]

Being raised by dysfunctional parents, I can tell you that this is the worst thing that can be done for the kids.

As you said, he's doing it to help himself (financial wise). Kids are not dumb; they know what's going on and are also put under much pressure by the actions of adults that don't know better.

Getting them out of the day to day "drama", while difficult, may be the best thing for them.
I lived with the situation (won't go into the details) until I left home. My brothers did not have that option, but things got better after my parents finally divorced.

Never use the children as an excuse not to make the hard decisions, which need to be made.

Been there - lived that.

Just my $.02.

It seems to me this is a case one dysfunctional and one functional one. It that case it is not so clear what to do.

 

[Bestwifeever]

....BIL is instituting tough love on his wife. She now has 2 jobs so works 80 hours a week between the two, including a looong 30-45 minute commute to her 2nd job (night shift). Her 2nd job is in a factory, so also requires physical exertion. I think she has been working like this for a few months now. It provides her enough money to pay her gambling loan interest (5% per month on $xx,xxx in debt). And it exhausts her so she is too tired to gamble, and requires her to be at work on weekends and at night so she doesn't have time off to gamble on weekends (when her gambling buds gamble). The downside is that her and BIL and their kids could only stay at the beach with us for approximately 16 hours before they had to leave so SIL could go back to work on the night shift....

Wow, she works 80 hours a week--maybe she is ashamed of what she's been doing?

Hope you enjoyed your daily dose of schadenfreude.

None here either, just sympathy for everyone involved, especially the kids. I'm sure it helps your BIL to have your support.

 

[FUEGO]

Wow, she works 80 hours a week--maybe she is ashamed of what she's been doing?

From BIL's characterization, she is certainly ashamed and is trying to keep up appearances. BIL said he expects her to break eventually and get fed up with working 80 hrs a week just to pay her creditors their 5% a month AND being simultaneously permanently broke. But she still sees gambling as the way out of her debt problems. Guess it has worked pretty well so far for her.

 

[FUEGO]

Very interesting that something like this can continue for over a a year and a half.

I'm surprised too. If I were a betting man, I would have guessed that the $hit would hit the fan much earlier. Other than their house, they are out of assets to cannibalize. House is 1/2 way through a major renovation, so it is not likely to have any untapped equity in it. And BIL is intentionally not finishing the renovation in order to keep the house unmortgageable.

 

[FUEGO]

Being raised by dysfunctional parents, I can tell you that this is the worst thing that can be done for the kids.

As you said, he's doing it to help himself (financial wise). Kids are not dumb; they know what's going on and are also put under much pressure by the actions of adults that don't know better.

Getting them out of the day to day "drama", while difficult, may be the best thing for them.
I lived with the situation (won't go into the details) until I left home. My brothers did not have that option, but things got better after my parents finally divorced.

Never use the children as an excuse not to make the hard decisions, which need to be made.

Been there - lived that.

Just my $.02.

2 of the kids are close to being out of the house (or at least potentially out of the house, if age 18 is used as eligibility for leaving the house). Were he to divorce, he could be looking at alimony, losing what little assets they have, possibly getting stuck with some debt, shared custody or limited custody, etc. And things may not settle down for a couple years, about the time the two oldest kids are getting out of the house.

I see where you are coming from - that it is not ideal to be growing up in a dysfunctional household, but the alternative isn't pretty either. Ultimately, BIL is an adult and will choose to pursue what he thinks best for him and the kids.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Thanks for the update. I had actually tracked down this thread earlier this week to see if anything new had been posted.

 

[carnivalday]

What an amazing story; just got finished reading the entire thread. Reality TV was never so interesting. I feel like Im watching 2 trains heading towards each other on the same track, just waiting for the crash. I truly dont see a good ending to this at all. I really feel so sorry for the DH of the SIL. He has no control of his life, and is just watching it spiral deeper and deeper. If theres anyone to be concerned about, it should be him. At least the kids can eventually move away, and probably have some good family support from others. The DH? Not so much. Hope one day he can find some peace in his life.

 

[arebelspy]

Wow. Just read this whole thread, beginning to end. Took a few hours, but it was like reading a gripping short story.

Sorry Fuego.

I wish you and your family, including extended family, the best.

It's sad to say, but I hope she hits rock bottom soon, for her sake and her immediate family's.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[TromboneAl]

Perhaps this is an allegory for the state of the nation's economy.

 

[FUEGO]

For a little levity: My daughter, who had just turned 5 at the time, learned about this gambling problem. From that point forward, she would ask "why does [aunt] have a giggling problem"? lol...

 

[FreeAtLast]

I would not offer any cash, but I would be there to help pay the rent and pay for food or whatever is needed to help her with her daily living in the short term.

Don't delay facing the problem. It will cost everyone a lot of money.

Best of luck.