Find me a milkman - anywhere! This job no longer exists in the US. Though you could get close by ordering some milk on Amazon with free 2-day shipping...Find me a milk man living in Venice Beach today?
Find me a milkman - anywhere! This job no longer exists in the US. Though you could get close by ordering some milk on Amazon with free 2-day shipping...Find me a milk man living in Venice Beach today?
Find me a milkman - anywhere! This job no longer exists in the US. Though you could get close by ordering some milk on Amazon with free 2-day shipping...
I'm a gen-X'er and I still do believe in the american dream, but I do feel that the current generation of young workers has it worse than ever.
I really feel that prior generations and politicians (in particular) have sold out generation Y. Combine that with a struggling economy and increasing student loan debt and they are starting way behind other generations. If I were in my twenties I imagine that the American dream would more like a giant ponzi scheme.
As others have mentioned, a hs diploma and a regular 40 hr/week job (at somehing considered entry level currently) in the 1950s or 60s essentially guaranteed you entry into the middle class with a car, a home, a pension, probable retirement in your 60s - and usually off do just one household income. Good luck with that in 2013.
I don't know what the solution is, however, to the current mess.
Lancelot said:If I were a Gen Xer, I would probably feel the same as you
Yes in the past things were more predictable and yes employer provided pensions are becomming, well, the exception.
On the other hand, invetment/savings options abound and mortgage rates are most likely much lower than what your parents paid.
Hang in there and someday your chance will come
Very interesting insights, all. I'd like to hear more perspective from the GenY crowd that are on this board.
When you got out of school, did you feel like the world was your oyster, or did you feel like the chips were stacked against you? How did your parents raise you? Did they coddle you and encourage you to pursue your dreams, or did they try to expose you to the real world and steer you into more traditionally lucrative career choices? Is this really just an entitlement/unrealistic expectations issue?
...For the folks 10-15 years younger, the "true" Gen Y'ers, are things that different? College costs have risen, sure. But what else?
From my "experienced" age of 34, I have a hard time not seeing the main problem as the mentality of this new generation, arising from the way they were raised. Most of my peers worked a job during high school, and this seems less common. We were fairly "free range" compared to these carefully shepherded and "play dated" young people. We were fully adult at age 18, not relying upon our parents to fund us into our 20s. There has been a tremendous cultural shift in a short time.
When you have an entire generation brought up under controlled conditions, where little was demanded of them, you get a different result I think.
I may be out of line. But I really don't see a lack of opportunity. I see a generation of young people who are waiting for something to be handed to them. A job isn't a participation trophy. You don't get one just for showing up...
...
UC school tuition is something like 12k now but 20 years ago it was only about 4-5k (inflation adjusted). For someone without significant family resources, this is a very large burden...
...After several years working, I no longer see the point in wearing a suit & tie if all I am going to do is sit in my cube and do email/powerpoint/excel. Sure, if someone is meeting with customers or a VP, put a suit on. But the rest of the time, I don't get it.
Although it sometimes ran the other way as well. Pensions that vest at 10 years service sometimes find lots of employees who are suddenly doing poorly in their ninth year and dismissed just before that vesting deadline.Likewise, some pension-having companies seem to tolerate mediocre job performance, they are loathe to "cost someone their pension" which is understandable.
Although it sometimes ran the other way as well. Pensions that vest at 10 years service sometimes find lots of employees who are suddenly doing poorly in their ninth year and dismissed just before that vesting deadline.
I'm a gen-X'er and I still do believe in the american dream, but I do feel that the current generation of young workers has it worse than ever.
I really feel that prior generations and politicians (in particular) have sold out generation Y. Combine that with a struggling economy and increasing student loan debt and they are starting way behind other generations. If I were in my twenties I imagine that the American dream would more like a giant ponzi scheme.
As others have mentioned, a hs diploma and a regular 40 hr/week job (at somehing considered entry level currently) in the 1950s or 60s essentially guaranteed you entry into the middle class with a car, a home, a pension, probable retirement in your 60s - and usually off do just one household income. Good luck with that in 2013.
I don't know what the solution is, however, to the current mess.
I'm a few generations older than you, and I have never known any American who was happy to have a menial job. Do you remember the painful boredom in grade school where the class moves at the pace of the slowest, while you were going crazy with frustration? That's a menial job for anyone with an IQ above about 90.This is one way in which I think our generation has differed from previous generations in that we're not just happy to have a job or do menial stuff.
Expectations change too. I never expected a pension, and so I was able to prepare by setting aside a larger chunk of my income. For those who expected security and got the rug yanked from under their feet, they have it worse I think. At least us X/Yers have had some time to plan!
SIS
Hey! OK to criticize people's low motivation, but people's majors are no indication of that. I got a BA in Communication with a 3.9 GPA; only 2 B's during my college career, and those were in minor subjects. In fact I was a grind, who got criticized for not partying.Then they graduate after 5 years with a BA in Communication..... Does that sound like someone who's ready to contribute? No. They spent all of college having fun and just getting by....
I really appreciate the little voice inside that says, "You could do better." Without it, I would spend too much time on my tush. I guess you are talking about a different voice, that says, "You can do better without effort."it's engrained in us that we can do better.
No doubt more difficult in some ways than other post WW2 generations. On the other hand, how easy do you think it was to get a start in the 30s? Or have to have the involuntary "opportunity" to get killed in WW2? how about the most unfortunate generation of Americans, those born in the early 1830s and early '40s? Many of the men died in the Civil War, and many women had no chance to marry, other than waiting for some older guy's wife to die in childbirth.I'm a gen-X'er and I still do believe in the american dream, but I do feel that the current generation of young workers has it worse than ever.
I enjoyed reading this thread and gave careful thought to many of the very interesting points. Here is my gut, pretty much unedited reaction:
Cry me a river. If you pick a marketable major, work hard in school to actually learn something that someone will pay you for, get internships and do a great job (work the hours your supposed to, dress appropriately, speak appropriately and do your assignments), you will get a job when you get out. Then if you live below your means (don't buy new furniture, get your stuff at garage sales, buy a used car etc) you will be able to save money. It has always been that way and it always will be. The coddled kids of the baby boomers don't have real problems. They make their own problems. The people who have real problems are those who can't get access to a good education due to their social/economic class. Or they don't have good role models or any one to explain to them how to make it in the world. I'll save my compassion and efforts on trying to help those who want to make it, not those who simply couldn't care less and want someone to save them from having to work a real job. Jobs generally aren't fun and aren't very rewarding. That is why they pay you to do them. Otherwise they would be called a hobby.
Maybe people who made it by simply showing up see the need to continue that trend. I think it was and is a waste of everyone's time to try to have a society where you make it by showing up.
No question in my mind that GenY will spend a long time paying for entitlements to boomers, considering both federal programs like social security and generous pensions for state employees. ...
....Even so, we are right in the cross hairs of the debate on higher taxes on household income >$250k.
Both my children had the opportunity to live at home and go to college. Neither were able to do it. They both had greater opportunity than I did. Their own failure to take advantage of it is not a product of the times being different.
When my daughter was 17 and going through her teenage angst I told her she wasn't going to make it in the world unless she changed her ways.
She told me, "Everyones making it.". You can imagine my reaction.
So here we are more than a decade later. She went back and finished her degree with student loans. Still hasn't got a job based on her degree. She has a negative net worth. Is living in a low end apartment.
She no longer says everybody's making it.
Both my children are behind where I was at their age. And I have no degree. There are always people who will succeed no matter what. But being middle class is not going to happen automatically. To be middle class you are going to have to out compete at least half the people and not make a lot of mistakes.
No doubt more difficult in some ways than other post WW2 generations. On the other hand, how easy do you think it was to get a start in the 30s? Or have to have the involuntary "opportunity" to get killed in WW2? how about the most unfortunate generation of Americans, those born in the early 1830s and early '40s? Many of the men died in the Civil War, and many women had no chance to marry, other than waiting for some older guy's wife to die in childbirth.
And there was the opportunity for a young person to contract and perhaps die from influenza or TB, or spend a short life in an iron lung, or to wear a leg brace and do his/her childhood playing on crutches because of having paralytic polio? I had a cousin like this, and I still remember how many parents felt a giant weight lifted from their shoulders when Dr Sabin and a bit later John Enders brought polio vaccines to the public. I had sibs 10 years behind me, and my parents had one less worry from then on. Polio was not a rare disease. And neither was rheumatic fever, with its frequent serious sequelae.
I believe it is true that many of us in the boomer generations, especially the earliest of us, had a relatively good time to come into the workforce, but let's try to remember that this is not all of life.
Blaming boomers makes no more sense than blaming today’s tax and spenders. Boomers no more understood or had power to change the progress of events than voters today realize the difficulties they are inadvertently inviting.
Humans have predictable and well known (to some) weaknesses and blindnesses. This is what creates opportunity for politicians.
Ha
No question in my mind that GenY will spend a long time paying for entitlements to boomers, considering both federal programs like social security and generous pensions for state employees. (And a lot of spending on pointless foreign wars.) But you can't overlook the impact of globalization on GenY's ability to establish middle-class lifestyles.
I would wager that my combined income with DW puts us in the top 1% of earnings for GenYers. We both have professional careers, and this is due to a combination of hard work, help from our parents, and being in the right place at the right time (aka luck). But we still don't have any security - we could survive one layoff, but not two.
Even so, we are right in the cross hairs of the debate on higher taxes on household income >$250k.
What would you considered ordinary job? I was junior engineer for a consulting engineering firm making little over average income and could afford more than Chevy Skylark. Only way I could have afford above mention cars if I bought a used car.I strongly doubt that wage.
I made $1.25 /hr cutting grass as a 12 year old in the 50s. As a 17 yo I averaged about $100-$120/week, selling women's shoes at Bakers.
I kind of imagine that some machinist making jet engines in my city made a fair amount more.
Back then young single guys with ordinary jobs could drive Jaguars or Austin Healys or Porsches, easily affford to go to night clubs, live in close-in nice city apartments. Sporting events were affordable for the average Joe. My machinist buddy who drove a Triumph Tr-2 and I went to the Indy 500 2 years running. And they could get married and have children with or without their wives working.
When I first moved to Venice Beach, (late 60s) my neighbor on one side was a milkman with a non-working wife and a big house and 4 children getting ready to leave the nest. This was 3 blocks from the prime central part of Venice Beach. Find me a milk man living in Venice Beach today?
I am not saying that very clever and fully devoted Gen-Yers cannot do fine- they can. My genY son and his wife do quite well, especially him. But I am a fair minded person, and for us it was like falling off a log to get a good job, which is rarely true today.
Ha
I'm a few generations older than you, and I have never known any American who was happy to have a menial job. Do you remember the painful boredom in grade school where the class moves at the pace of the slowest, while you were going crazy with frustration? That's a menial job for anyone with an IQ above about 90.
Hey! OK to criticize people's low motivation, but people's majors are no indication of that. I got a BA in Communication with a 3.9 GPA; only 2 B's during my college career, and those were in minor subjects. In fact I was a grind, who got criticized for not partying.