Help, Dad driving without a license

Another thing to watch out for:

When my mom lost most of her vision, she was extremely reluctant to give up her driver's license because it gave her status as a normal person. She was perfectly fine with not driving, because she knew it wouldn't be safe, but she wanted that license and not the equivalent state-issued ID card.

As it happened, there was a friendly neighborhood optometrist who gladly (for the price of an exam) filled out the DMV paperwork showing that her vision was good enough, and she kept renewing her DL for another decade. OP's father might know such a resource and evade the issue for a while yet.
 
Bestwifeever said:
I'm wondering if Midpack and his sister could also be sued in the hopefully unlikely event of an accident now that their father told them beforehand he knows he can't pass the vision test but intends to drive anyway; they could tell their father his driving would potentially put them in this position.
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It does seem doubtful that the son and daughter could be held liable for their father's decisions. But I suppose a case could be made for it if it could be proven that they knew about the situation, but did nothing to prevent it from happening. There is the "public safety" aspect that a jury might consider. Yet another point for the attorney to discuss.
 
Giving up driving is the saddest part of getting old.

In our CCRC, though scheduled shopping and activity trips are provided, some the residents who prefer to be on their own, use a local taxi service... the same one, with the same driver. It seems to work out well, as they develop a rapport, whereby a telephone call to agree on time, and other arrangements get worked out on a mutual basis. Of course there's a cost involved, but probably less than the cost of maintaining a car.

We also have two on-call local bus services... supported by the nearby cities.
Here's one that works out well.

Home - rideNCAT

I dread the day when I'll have to give up driving,:(
 
The father doesn't have to know Midpack and Sis might not be liable; and even if they were found not liable, it wouldn't be fun to be sued (I'm thinking there is a lawyer or two who would take the case on a contingency basis).
 
Walt34 said:
It does seem doubtful that the son and daughter could be held liable for their father's decisions. But I suppose a case could be made for it if it could be proven that they knew about the situation, but did nothing to prevent it from happening. There is the "public safety" aspect that a jury might consider. Yet another point for the attorney to discuss.
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Independent of the LEGAL liability, could they live with themselves if a person died because of the decision to do nothing? Or if dad lost everything in a lawsuit?

The only responsible thing to do is take away the keys, or notify the DMV. While it is difficult, it is needed.

While we are still in our young 60's, we have made it clear to each other, and to our son, that when the time comes, things like that are the right thing to do.
 
My Dear Mother (also in Chicagoland) is 93 and let her license lapse when she was in the hospital. She has talked about taking the driving test again but so far has let it slide since my brother and sister have been able to get her to the hair dresser every week (most important thing in her life!). She has talked about the indignity of her friends having their adult children taking the keys away and wants to make the decision for herself. So far, she seems to have made the decision by not taking the test again.

On the insurance side, the father will be covered, license or not, as long as he is listed as a named insured on the policy or as a member of the household. Midpack might make a phone call to his father's insurance agent and let the agent know that Dad's license has expired. The agent can notify the insurance company, who will then send a notice of non-renewal to his father. He can pretend that the state took the action on its own and not be directly involved. If the insurance agent is a trusted advisor to his father, Dad might listen and accept the guidance from his agent.
 
I don't know. I'd probably just let him go ahead and drive without a license.
 
I'd help to make it convenient for him not to drive. Uber a few weeks. Perhaps his car could not start for a while(sometimes the battery needs reconnected;)). An unexpected visitor who's a willing transport.

My 94 yo father more or less gradually stopped; then his car would not start(for real) and he sold it. Best wishes.
 
Sorry Midpack ,Tough thing to handle . My Mother made the decision on her own but kept her car . I am not sure why . She finally sold it at 92. My friend's Father was driving at 101 . In Florida people drive forever or until they drive into a store front .
 
It doesn't sound like anybody is sure he'll fail the DMV vision test, and he hasn't yet looked into the option to get an independent optometrist to give him a note that lets him drive. Midpack's sis drives with him, and she hasn't said he's unsafe. Why are so many people trying to get Dad to stop driving if it might still be legal and safe for him to do so?
Before doing anything, I'd research what is involved in getting an independent appraisal of his vision that is acceptable to the DMV--a backup in case he fails their test. Then I'd approach him about the inadvisability of driving without a license (insurance, liability, the cost of a ticket for driving without a valid license, etc), and urge him to get his license renewed. If he complains about possibly failing the test, let him know about the options of going to an optometrist/ophthalmologist, etc. This puts you on his side (you are trying to help him keep driving, responsibly). If all goes well, he's legal to drive and sis is still going to be able to monitor his ability to safely do so. If he fails the DMV and private vision tests, it will be a perfect opportunity for the vision pro to have a talk with him about the real dangers he'd pose by driving with his particular vision problem. Plus, through the process/time of trying to pass the vision test, he'll have a chance to come to terms with the issue himself, and think of ways to adjust if he can't get legal.
 
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Samclem

A great point. I think legal driving is 20/40? I was that before cataract surgery. I couldn't see very well.
 
I would strongly recommend he move to FL. They'll give him a license. When we moved here we went in to get our FL licenses. We took the vision test and were waiting for our licenses to be printed. Another older lady came in to get her license. She failed the vision test (on the same machine we used) three times. So they politely asked her to step over to "this machine over here". In less than 5 minutes she was sitting over beside us waiting for her license.

As the old joke goes,
I've sure gotten old! I've had two bypass surgeries, a hip replacement, new knees. Fought prostate cancer and diabetes. I'm half blind, can't hear anything quieter than a jet engine, take 40 different medications that make me dizzy, winded, and subject to blackouts. Have bouts with dementia. Have poor circulation; hardly feel my hands and feet anymore. Can't remember if I'm 85 or 92. Have lost all my friends. But, thank God, I still have my FL driver's license."
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FIL, legally blind, drove into a snowplow. At that point, we all kinda knew....

DH and his sister were constantly worrying because FIL saw no reason that lack of vision should have anything to do with anything as far as his ability to drive. %^$%@^, YOU would be a familiar response.

His license was taken away the day of that accident. He still continued to drive.

One day, when SIL could not reach him by phone, she called the police of his small NE village. They were waiting at the end of his driveway upon his return. They removed the license plates (MA) from his car. FIL called DH in no time, accusing him of calling the police.

For some reason, the removal of the license plates drove the point home more than than losing his driver's license.

When he went to assisted living, his SUV stayed in the parking lot. His atty (family friend) pointed out very quickly that knowing the SUV was there would go a long way toward making FIL feel good about the situation. It definitely did.
 
Midpack said:
Today was Dad's 95th birthday
. He's perfectly fine behind the wheel, doesn't drive far and never at night.
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He's still a safe driver and I assume he's not driving 495 at rush hour.

I'll play devil's advocate here and say let him. If he gets pulled over the tow fee will probably be higher than the fine.

[Que Garth's I got friends in low places ] I know a goodly amount of folks that had their license pulled and kept driving. Other than the DUI on top of the DUI no one did any time or had extravagant fines. Most were extra cautious super safe while trying to avoid the sheriff.
 
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Earlier posts suggested letting his Dr. be the the 'bad guy". That's what we did when MIL started having "mystery" dents on the front fenders.

DW in talked in private to the Dr. before an apt. Doc then told MIL she could no longer drive. Every time the subject came up later, we said "No driving Mom. Dr.'s orders!" That solved the problem.
 
rdy2go said:
....On the insurance side, the father will be covered, license or not, as long as he is listed as a named insured on the policy or as a member of the household. Midpack might make a phone call to his father's insurance agent and let the agent know that Dad's license has expired. The agent can notify the insurance company, who will then send a notice of non-renewal to his father. He can pretend that the state took the action on its own and not be directly involved. If the insurance agent is a trusted advisor to his father, Dad might listen and accept the guidance from his agent.
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I like this one... let the insurance company be the bad guy... spin it that they are hooked into DMV databases and through that became aware of the expired license and then recinded the policy subject to the license being renewed. Midpack isn't the bad guy and DF has the option to keep driving if he can pass the tests needed get his license renewed.

I guess that there would still be some risk that he would drive without a license or insurance... at which point stronger actions may be needed... but I think the potential loss of everything he has accumulated during his lifetime might be an effective deterrent... especially if convenient alternatives are available.

Why can't he just take taxis?
 
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rdy2go said:
On the insurance side, the father will be covered, license or not, as long as he is listed as a named insured on the policy or as a member of the household. Midpack might make a phone call to his father's insurance agent and let the agent know that Dad's license has expired. The agent can notify the insurance company, who will then send a notice of non-renewal to his father. He can pretend that the state took the action on its own and not be directly involved. If the insurance agent is a trusted advisor to his father, Dad might listen and accept the guidance from his agent.
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We're trying to scare Dad into reconsidering based on being personally liable if his insurance coverage is void due to an expired license. Researching with insurance provider. Dad has high $ auto coverage and a huge umbrella policy on top of that.

But if that doesn't work, we may resort to the above.

Some of the suggestions imply that Dad can't see, not true, just marginal in his mind - he might pass a vision test. And we're not going to try to fool him with some simple trick, he's old, not feeble minded. We're going to use persuasion vs force or treating him like a child if at all possible. We'd like to think he just hasn't thought this through well enough, and we'll be able to persuade him in a matter of days/weeks.

I've replied to other suggestions, Uber no, taxis no - my sister lives with him 24/7, she can drive him if he relents. He was an orthopedic surgeon before he retired, so he's not going to be intimidated by another physician. Again, loss of independence/control over his life is the central issue. He's involuntarily given up almost all of the activities he enjoyed when he was younger, voluntarily giving up recreational driving isn't coming easily. He's already sad at his dependence on my sister.

And he has an appointment with an eye doctor already, he's dealing with the beginning stages of treatable macular degeneration. We went through macular degeneration with Mom, so we know the progression etc.

We've gotten several very good ideas here, grateful.
 
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Why don't you take him to get his license renewed? He might well pass the vision test and that seems to be your only concern, not with his driving.
 
Bestwifeever said:
Why don't you take him to get his license renewed? He might well pass the vision test and that seems to be your only concern, not with his driving.
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That's on our agenda, after the invalid insurance/liability discussion and the eye doctor's appointment. If all that fails, we may resort to alerting his insurance provider that his license has expired.
 
braumeister said:
Another thing to watch out for:

When my mom lost most of her vision, she was extremely reluctant to give up her driver's license because it gave her status as a normal person. She was perfectly fine with not driving, because she knew it wouldn't be safe, but she wanted that license and not the equivalent state-issued ID card.

As it happened, there was a friendly neighborhood optometrist who gladly (for the price of an exam) filled out the DMV paperwork showing that her vision was good enough, and she kept renewing her DL for another decade. OP's father might know such a resource and evade the issue for a while yet.
Click to expand...

Seems like a pretty reckless neighborhood optometrist to me. :rolleyes:

And one obviously unconcerned about liability issues - glad it worked out for your DM but that seems like high risk for everyone involved
 
euro said:
Seems like a pretty reckless neighborhood optometrist to me. :rolleyes:

And one obviously unconcerned about liability issues - glad it worked out for your DM but that seems like high risk for everyone involved
Click to expand...

I had a roommate who's was going blind with RP. He worked an Optometrist who signed off on him seeing 20/40. We never believed he could see that, he mentioned he was given a couple of Mulligans along the way.
 
Just learned his insurance expires/renews in June, so hopefully he's going to get "caught" then. Not that we won't intervene, we're already trying, but worst case...

And he's already agreed to let my sister drive more, he just hasn't given up the option of driving himself - yet.
 
My parents went through this nightmare several years ago. My father had severe nerve damage from diabetes and wasn't driving for quite some time - vision deficiencies and couldn't feel his legs. Mother was the driver for errands going to the local store and post office - not much over a mile or two from the house. The same day, father fell and couldn't get up and mother had a stroke trying to lift him up :(. Mother lost her ability to drive subsequently, father wanted to pick it up again. We arranged third party deliveries and assistance to the house to get things done for them, but father wanted to sneak to the fast food joints to pick up fried chicken. He claimed to drive carefully at 25 mph in areas with 40 mph speed limits :face palm: - even the 25 mph wasn't pretty and would likely result in an accident. He would not relinquish car keys. We finally sabotaged his car by removing the spark plugs.

Eventually solved by selling off his cars and moving them to a common house with my brother, so no more driving opportunities for them.
 
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