Help, Dad driving without a license

[Bestwifeever]

+1

+1

 

[MRG]

Congratulations. Best possible outcome.

 

[H2ODude]

Just read through the whole thread, glad it worked out well Midpack.

These situations vary a great deal IMO. Taking away keys, disabling vehicle appear quite inappropriate in Midpacks case; his father was mentally competent and simply stubborn. Hence rational discussion was what did work. Now, if he was suffering from dementia those actions may have been only thing to work. Public safety trumps senior pride/stubborness.

It's just refreshing that a compassionate and reasoned approach worked. I'm sure it doesn't always. In our case I finally badgered my DF to give it up after a truly scary ride in which I pointed out he was barely missing mailboxes. He was mentally competent, but just didn't want to give it up...the independence thing (and he was living with us at the time).

I think the insurance nullification is the the slam dunk here for anyone in such a situation unless they have no assets. I recall very clearly as a new driver my father lecturing me that if I had a choice of driving with no license or no insurance, never drive without insurance! Probably wasn't aware of no license giving insurance company an out, but that was his rule.

 

[street]

That was a great outcome. I was through it a couple of times myself and it isn't easy for them to give up the driving.

I hope I can be cooperative when my turn comes around. It will be a hard thing to do. Glad all worked so well for you and your dad.

 

[Midpack]

That was a great outcome. I was through it a couple of times myself and it isn't easy for them to give up the driving.

I hope I can be cooperative when my turn comes around. It will be a hard thing to do. Glad all worked so well for you and your dad.

Between Uber/Lyft (now in many cities) and autonomous cars (well proven by then) and our greater familiarity/acceptance of them, [-]there's a very good chance[/-] I'm certain we won't have to face this dilemma when we get old.

 

[RobbieB]

I know I won't.

My city has a bus service (bus stops) but once you are 65 they will pick you up at your door and drop you at your destination. And you can also get 50% off cab fare for those destinations the bus won't go.

Pretty cool. I'm going to sign up when I'm 65 just so I can drive to the auto shop and then take the bus (or taxi) home on the cheap

 

[bclover]

Except driving privileges come with a responsibility. The DMV has a vision test, you don't get to decide that you are still safe unless you pass it. We are (supposed to be) a nation of laws.

Personal hot button for me - years ago, I was hit by a big old Buick, it blew right through a stop sign at an exit ramp from a main road, probably still going the 50 mph speed limit of that road. It was a blind intersection to me, no way I could stop in time.

I hit the seat belt so hard (no air bag in this car in 1988), man, it was like a really big sadistic guy just swung a baseball bat smack across my chest. Got knocked unconscious, came to at the side of the road with my left hand bent back like a pretzel. That hurt like hell as well.

As 'luck' would have it, we ended up next to each other in curtained areas in the ER, and I overheard his family say something to him about "OK, Dad, that's it - now you are done driving". The context seemed like they had had the conversation with him before.

I spent the night in ICU, another week in the hospital with bruised ribs, a bruise all the way across my chest from the seat belt, a cast for that wrist, barely able to get out of bed and walk, awful aches and pains making it hard to get any sleep at all for weeks. Took months to get anywhere back to normal - then physical therapy, and years of other problems with my back and knees, and my wrist will never be fully recovered. DW had to look after me a lot for a while.

No, you don't get to decide that you can drive if the DMV is going to say no. That is just so self-centered and arrogant it makes we want to spit!

-ERD50

+1

Amen ErD,

Went through this crap with my dad. Ended up when he mistook the offramp for the on ramp. On the $%& highway going the wrong way. only by the grace of GOD was no one injured. Not only did we take his keys, we took his car.
Yep, he got pissed and my brothers and I politely told him to call the cops but he was NOT getting that car back.

I hope my sons care that much for me. Op glad you resolved it without a lot of pain. parenting a parent is hard.

Ironically we hired him a driver and after a few months, he swore it was his great idea.

 

[Brat]

One more detail that no one has mentioned, ID. If the driver's licence lapses I am not confident that he has what he needs to go through airport security. Take him to DMV and get him an ID card.

 

[rdy2go]

Midpack, I'm glad that you were able to get your Dad to agree on his own. Being his decision sure makes it go down better. I was thinking that if he is in the Chicago area, of the old days when someone could "pass" their driver's test by paper clipping a $20 bill to the back of their application. Also, of the late Illinois Secretary of State, Paul Powell, who, when he died they found shoe boxes of money and checks made out to "Paul Powell, Secretary of State" in his home's closets.

 

[rdy2go]

I was once told a story by a small-town insurance agent in the Texas Panhandle. He said they had a woman in town that was a terrible driver and everyone in town knew it. People in town would pull off the street into someone's driveway, pull into a parking lot or whatever to avoid her when they saw her coming. If she hit you it was "your fault" since you know she was a terrible driver. Small town life is different than the big city for sure!

 

[splitwdw]

Again, we're pursuing:

1. Making him understand he may be personally liable, insurance invalid or reduced. We know he wants to maintain his estate to pass to my sister.
2. He has an eye doc appt Thursday, but we're not hopeful. Just learned he had to get his optometrist (different than this week) involved to keep his license 2 years ago, and was told the he wouldn't approve next time.

So this is how he knew he wouldn't pass the test and he's been driving for 2 years with impaired eyesight. Good thing he's finally giving up his keys.

 

[audreyh1]

One more detail that no one has mentioned, ID. If the driver's licence lapses I am not confident that he has what he needs to go through airport security. Take him to DMV and get him an ID card.

Unless he has an active passport.

 

[Sunset]

One more detail that no one has mentioned, ID. If the driver's licence lapses I am not confident that he has what he needs to go through airport security. Take him to DMV and get him an ID card.

Get a passport, as it can be used for international travel and does not have the issue of some States failing to meet the guidelines and may soon not be accepted as valid ID to fly.

 

[Brat]

There may be other situations where State issued ID is requested (I experienced this when signing in for health care), he shouldn't carry around his passport. Agree, using your passport for air travel ID is great.

 

[garyt]

A bit of a threadjack, but my Dad is 92, just passed the test ,has his license but his insurance premium is outrageous for a guy who never really drives and has no tickets or accidents in forever.
So I thought of buying his car and put it on my insurance as a third car. It would stay at his house in case of emergency. He hasn't used it in a year himself. We use it to drive him around. I've let him drive with me just to make sure he's still capable but he never uses it himself anymore but doesn't want to give it up.
My question, if he did use it and something happened could they come after me? I guess they would as it would be my car on my insurance?

 

[rodi]

Midpack -

I am so glad to hear that your dad came to the decision that keeps him on the proper side of the law and public safety. I'll admit to feeling nervous about someone with known bad eyesight on the roads.

My grandmother should have given up her license earlier than she did - she had reached the point of driving 45mph on the freeway - which is even more unsafe than driving 85mph on the freeway here in California. Fortunately, she figured it out - and let my mom drive her on errands for her remaining 6 years.

My step-mom gave up driving before she gave up teaching nursing... about 4 years ago... her neuropathy made her unsure what peddle she was using... so she arranged a shuttle service to drive her too/from her classes. (Obviously cognitively she was great... which is why she was still teaching graduate courses in nursing.)

I beachwalk with an older woman (late 70's) who has a plan mapped out for when she can no longer drive... she purchased a condo on the bus line for this exact reason.

I hope I recognize when the time is right to give up driving.

 

[Midpack]

To keep things in perspective, it appears distracted driving, impaired driving and even teens cause more auto accidents/fatalities than the elderly.

Of course there comes an advanced age for each individual where they're probably more of a hazard than other causes. And I can't think of a more reliable way to check than Birthday license renewals. The laws in TX seem reasonable.

Mile for mile, the crash rate for drivers ages 16 and 17, for example, is almost nine times as high as that for middle-aged drivers. People 80 and older are involved in 5.5 times as many fatal crashes per mile driven as middle-aged drivers.

 

[Walt34]

Of course there comes an advanced age for each individual where they're probably more of a hazard than other causes. And I can't think of a more reliable way to check than Birthday license renewals. The laws in TX seem reasonable.

I have long believed that when a driver's license expires (about every 4 years) no matter their age the holder should have to take the entire test, written and practical, all over again and re-qualify from scratch. I think Germany does this, among other countries. Airplane pilots and boat captains have to re-qualify at various intervals depending on their ratings, why should drivers be exempt?

Of course this would spark outcry and backlash since so many people seem to think they have a God-given Constitutional right to drive.

 

[audreyh1]

There may be other situations where State issued ID is requested (I experienced this when signing in for health care), he shouldn't carry around his passport. Agree, using your passport for air travel ID is great.

The manager of my Dad's assisted living told us that the driver's license could still be used as ID, the expiration part is for the driving, not the identification. She didn't seem to think Dad needed to get a state ID instead.

 

[Ronstar]

I have long believed that when a driver's license expires (about every 4 years) no matter their age the holder should have to take the entire test, written and practical, all over again and re-qualify from scratch. I think Germany does this, among other countries. Airplane pilots and boat captains have to re-qualify at various intervals depending on their ratings, why should drivers be exempt?

Of course this would spark outcry and backlash since so many people seem to think they have a God-given Constitutional right to drive.

I agree in full testing every 4 years. In Illinois, its way too easy to renew a drivers license - at least for those under 80. I have only taken the full test once - 45 years ago when I first got my license.

On the other hand, the elderly have to renew and full retest frequently. MIL now going on 88 has to renew and full retest annually. She only drives locally - within 10 miles of home and never at night. I would be in favor of daytime and/or mileage restrictions if such restrictions can be shown to improve safety.

 

[Brat]

I get the fact that the expiration date on the licence is for driving however there are idiots out there who think that the ID portion of a driver's licence expires. Rather than argue with fools just get a state ID.

 

[Texas Proud]

To keep things in perspective, it appears distracted driving, impaired driving and even teens cause more auto accidents/fatalities than the elderly.

Of course there comes an advanced age for each individual where they're probably more of a hazard than other causes. And I can't think of a more reliable way to check than Birthday license renewals. The laws in TX seem reasonable.

One of the problems with stats like that is the driver that was the 'cause' of the accident might not be IN the accident...

The slow driver on the freeway being an example... someone is coming up on the quickly and changes lanes and hits someone... but the slow driver is driving away.... or, they slow down, but then dart in to try and pass and also cause a wreck.... sure, that driver is to blame also, but if the slow driver was not there nothing would have happened...

 

[harley]

One of the problems with stats like that is the driver that was the 'cause' of the accident might not be IN the accident...

The slow driver on the freeway being an example... someone is coming up on the quickly and changes lanes and hits someone... but the slow driver is driving away.... or, they slow down, but then dart in to try and pass and also cause a wreck.... sure, that driver is to blame also, but if the slow driver was not there nothing would have happened...

+1. I have seen old, slow, confused drivers cause a number of accidents without actually being in them. Just tonight I saw an old guy that had turned into an oncoming turning lane by accident, then backed back out into the main (very busy) road. This caused people to have to slam on their brakes, and one of them backended another one. The cause of the accident slowly drove down the road a bit, then made his left hand turn from the correct turning lane. I don't think he even knew what happened behind him. I was one of the ones that stopped successfully, but it could have easily been me.

 

[NW-Bound]

My 83-year old mother's driving skill is deteriorating noticeably, yet she is out driving more than ever. She is very restless, and would drive to a grocery store 10 miles away, got home, and turned around to go back to the store. The corners of her car all got dented or scratched. My siblings and I wonder how many cars she has dented in the parking lot by hit-and-run! I pleaded with her to reduce her driving, to no avail.

How do elderlies become so selfish? I surely hope I would be more considerate when I get to that age.

Self driving Tesla? I guess a Tesla driver would still require a licence but the chance of an accident would be minimal...

It would be nice, but they do not have it yet. All current cars can only keep themselves centered in a lane, and cannot yet drive from point A to point B by themselves.

Last year, a Tesla owner lost his life when his car driven by the so-called "Autopilot" went under an eighteen-wheeler, shearing the top of his car off down to the doors (he did not duck).

In a recent report in Nov 2016, four test Tesla cars traveled a total of 550 miles, and they had 182 disengagements when intervention by the test drivers were needed. That's one every 3 miles.

See: Tesla is testing self-driving cars on Calif. roads.

 

[Midpack]

One of the problems with stats like that is the driver that was the 'cause' of the accident might not be IN the accident...

The slow driver on the freeway being an example... someone is coming up on the quickly and changes lanes and hits someone... but the slow driver is driving away.... or, they slow down, but then dart in to try and pass and also cause a wreck.... sure, that driver is to blame also, but if the slow driver was not there nothing would have happened...

+1. I have seen old, slow, confused drivers cause a number of accidents without actually being in them. Just tonight I saw an old guy that had turned into an oncoming turning lane by accident, then backed back out into the main (very busy) road. This caused people to have to slam on their brakes, and one of them backended another one. The cause of the accident slowly drove down the road a bit, then made his left hand turn from the correct turning lane. I don't think he even knew what happened behind him. I was one of the ones that stopped successfully, but it could have easily been me.

Of course there are undoubtedly accidents where an impaired, distracted or teen driver was the cause without being in the accident. There's no evidence to suggest elderly drivers are unique in that respect. So largely a wash in 'the stats' - unless you have better stats to corroborate your POVs.