The Average ER.org'er has $2.9M Net Worth, $84K/yr Spending, 3.4% Withdrawal Rate...

[Spanky]

I guess the threads that annoy me somewhat are more those that hint at needing a lot of net worth to overcome relatively small risks.

"Don't count on SS"

"4% might not work in the future"

"Healthcare may cost you $500,000" (this one is probably ONLY true for those with high net worth)

+1 .. that kind of thinking leads to continuous cycles of OMY (one more year) syndrome in fear of not having enough.

 

[bradaz2488]

IMO the numbers seem to be pretty spot on. If you discount NW by 15% for house that give you ś2.5M and with ś84k net expenses (accounts for pensions and SS) then that is 29x expences which is a safe SWR for at 35-40 yeat plan...

 

[Midpack]

My only motivation was in accuracy of the description. It just bugs me to see someone say that a poll like this represents the average of the membership, when that cannot be said. Is that really so hard to understand?

It has nothing to do with 'perfection', just call a spade a spade.

For Pete's sake. It is, as described in the OP, an average of ER.org polls, the methodology and the shortcomings of polls are well documented. Post #1 stated it was based on polls, and that it couldn't be exact. Most everyone here knows polls are not perfect, sometimes that's all we have as in this case. If the title allowed 500 characters, maybe I could have couched the description to your satisfaction. It seems most here took it for what it was worth as intended. Anyone can criticize, though usually more credible it you have any alternative.

What's not hard to understand is your primary goal from the outset...carry on.

 

[btdt22]

How about a poll on whether Midpack or ERD50 gets the last word.

My bet is for Midpack

 

[rothlev]

...holds 11 or fewer mutual funds in portfolio,

with a house that's 15% or less of net worth and,

46% have a pension that provides 25% or more of income, 24% have a pension but less than 25% of income and 30% have no pension.

Based on 6 fairly current polls from earlier threads and stemming from another thread. It seems there are always assumptions about how individuals here think they compare to others on ER.org - with some misconceptions both ways. The distributions are pretty wide, so you're probably in good company here no matter how you compare...

[Caveat: Drawing means from histograms is not exact for those anxious to pounce.]

Is the present value of the defined benefit pensions computed into net worth or not?

 

[Amethyst]

I guess that depends on the person answering the poll.

I don't count our pensions OR house equity. Other people do.

So that definitely can lead to skewing of data

Is the present value of the defined benefit pensions computed into net worth or not?

 

[Fermion]

How about a poll on whether Midpack or ERD50 gets the last word.

My bet is for Midpack

I'll take the other side of that bet. ERD50 has like 19,000 posts, Midpack only a measly 11,000 something.

 

[GrayHare]

When I last calculated, a recent E-R.org poll came up with about 1.9 people per household. That means the poll numbers for NW and such are basically for two people. Singles now know to adjust the earlier poll values accordingly. Dividing by 1.9 isn't quite right since, for example, a couple usually can live for less per person than can a single, but that division will get one in the ballpark. These polls yield fuzzy numbers to begin with.

 

[Car-Guy]

How about a poll on whether Midpack or ERD50 gets the last word.

My bet is for Midpack

I'll take the other side of that bet. ERD50 has like 19,000 posts, Midpack only a measly 11,000 something.

I'm betting that porky gets the last word. And soon I hope.

 

[kcowan]

Is the present value of the defined benefit pensions computed into net worth or not?

I would say NO because the PV will drop with each passing year. At least that is why I concluded that it should be excluded. Now including the house might be the opposite problem.

 

[youbet]

a couple usually can live for less per person than can a single

Really? When you consider all the possible financial complications involved in"coupling up," I'm not so sure that's true anymore.

But your point is well taken. On this board, many discussions leave out the detail of whether the number being tossed out reflects a single, couple or family.

 

[NW-Bound]

I should keep in mind that as a couple, us having 2 homes is nothing extravagant.

I know that quite a few single posters here have 2 homes. That's like us with 4 homes. Gah!

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Is the present value of the defined benefit pensions computed into net worth or not?

I didnt do it for mine, Just the yearly payout. It has no value to me other than the monthly check they send.

 

[W2R]

I should keep in mind that as a couple, us having 2 homes is nothing extravagant.

I know that quite a few single posters here have 2 homes. That's like us with 4 homes. Gah!

Well, I suppose that is true! I hadn't thought of it that way. Frank and I have two homes, in that sense - - mine, and his. In our case they are both fairly small, and only 20 feet apart, if that.

Each of us maintains and pays taxes on one home. If we were married and lived together, it would sort of be like having a "roomie" and so we might save some money, each paying half the expenses. However, we prefer our present arrangement.

NET WORTH:
As for the other discussion going on, I usually do not include the PV of my mini-pension in my net worth, because I feel it would be overkill to do so. I suppose I should, but nobody's holding a gun to my head.

I do include my home equity.

To me, net worth computations are completely useless because I use them for nothing, zippo, nada. If I find a use for them some day, then I will know what to include or not include.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I should keep in mind that as a couple, us having 2 homes is nothing extravagant.

I know that quite a few single posters here have 2 homes. That's like us with 4 homes. Gah!

Many times I wish I was still a renter. "hello superintendent?" "yes?" It's me the BCG, Listen, my hot water isn't hot. Im going to go walk rover, and get some coffee, you want a cup? No, ok, so i'll leave the apt door unlocked, you have the front door key. Listen , In about an hour Ill be back, is thats ok for shower time? Good, thank you.

Now what happens is, "Ut oh, no hot water. Hey honey you washing clothes? NO? Oh God, whats da matter, We got no &^*(%#* hot water, I got ta call someone. Great is Sunday , they will clobber us over the head for this one. Tomorrow afternoon!, is that the earliest?

 

[NW-Bound]

But without the 2 homes to maintain what do I do with so much free time? And there's that motorhome too. I would have to go to a gym, which I have never done in my life.

I would also have too much money, I would hurt my health eating so much Kobe beef washed down with expensive Cognac.

 

[RobbieB]

Ah, see, there you have it. Different strokes for different folks.

I can buy an enormous amount of Kobe, Caviar, Lobster tails and yes all the expensive booze I can drink for less than the upkeep on a second house.

 

[Amethyst]

Easily solved. One bigger house with a big yard can soak up any amount of time you can throw at it. And we have to go to the gym to stay in shape to take care of the house and yard.

It will also soak up any amount of money.

But without the 2 homes to maintain what do I do with so much free time? And there's that motorhome too. I would have to go to a gym, which I have never done in my life.

I would also have too much money, I would hurt my health eating so much Kobe beef washed down with expensive Cognac.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, a 5000-sq.ft. mansion with one acre of garden may keep one so busy he can forget about traveling too.

My two homes do not add up to 5000 sq.ft. although the two exteriors take more work than that of a bigger one. And I do have a big hilly lot with the boondocks home, but it is in its natural state with native evergreens. Very low maintenance there.

Anyway, we talk about travel earlier. Not everybody cares for that, for example one of my brother-in-laws. His wife has a sister who lives permanently in Germany, and raises her family there (kids are all German citizens). BIL and his wife finally made a trip to visit the sister, after years of talking about it. They went for 3 weeks, and the sister also took them to Paris, and to Italy to see Venice.

When they came back, their mood was that of disappointment. I did not know what they expected to see, but they were not impressed by, nor cared about anything that they saw. And BIL said he lost weight, because he could not eat the food there. What? Yep, that was true. And he said he would never go to Europe again.

When I asked them what part of Germany the sister resides in, they did not even know.

PS. I am taking a break from staining the wood I will be putting up to replace the deck railings. Need to get back out there to finish the staining, so I will start to install it tomorrow.

 

[Amethyst]

4400 sq feet with the finished basement. And 3.5 acres. We do manage to get some travel in.

Have been putting Deck Restore on the entire deck including railings and support posts. 22 hours into the job, not quite done. Can't bear to think of what someone would charge to do it.

Yes, a 5000-sq.ft. mansion with one acre of garden may keep one so busy he can forget about traveling too.

My two homes do not add up to 5000 sq.ft. although the two exteriors take more work than that of a bigger one. And I do have a big hilly lot with the boondocks home, but it is in its natural state with native evergreens. Very low maintenance there.

Anyway, we talk about travel earlier. Not everybody cares for that, for example one of my brother-in-laws. His wife has a sister who lives permanently in Germany, and raises her family there (kids are all German citizens). BIL and his wife finally made a trip to visit the sister, after years of talking about it. They went for 3 weeks, and the sister also took them to Paris, and to Italy to see Venice.

When they came back, their mood was that of disappointment. I did not know what they expected to see, but they were not impressed by, nor cared about anything that they saw. And BIL said he lost weight, because he could not eat the food there. What? Yep, that was true. And he said he would never go to Europe again.

When I asked them what part of Germany the sister resides in, they did not even know.

PS. I am taking a break from staining the wood I will be putting up to replace the deck railings. Need to get back out there to finish the staining, so I will start to install it tomorrow.

 

[Fermion]

Hah! We have 30 acres of mountain land but I just let it go to trees.

Turkeys are getting annoying though. Yesterday, I kid you not, we had a group (gaggle?) of 15 turkeys walk up to our camper door and strut around. They know I will not pay $45 for a license to kill 2 of them when I can get one with a timer already stuck in it for $20.

 

[NW-Bound]

Darn, I wrote "brother-in-laws" instead of "brothers-in-law".

I have made this mistake before, and just did it again.

Bad, bad memory... Not at all "superior". Alzheimer is just around the corner. Soon, I will ask "Net Worth? Who is Mr. Worth?".

 

[Dash man]

Except there are so many INTJs on this forum it's hard for you to really be an outlier.



I'm an INTP, so I'm an outlier.

I'm an INTP, so you're not alone.

 

[Fermion]

I'm an INTP, so you're not alone.

I get confused with all of the various acronyms. Is an INTP the one who looks at his shoes when he talks to you or your shoes?

 

[splitwdw]

I get confused with all of the various acronyms. Is an INTP the one who looks at his shoes when he talks to you or your shoes?