Every 3rd auto oil change, change filter?

[OldShooter]

... The filter is usually the weakest link.

@HarveyS, I am still waiting for your data to back up this assertion.

... a cheap filter that can break down ...

And, while you're at it please provide some backup for this statement.

I've always changed the filter when the oil was changed. Oil & filters are cheap, engine overhaul/replacement is expensive.

Lots of people feel this way and it is an attractive argument, but it is based on a false premise: That frequent new filters offer more protection to the engine. This is not the case.

Inside an oil filter (at least all of the many I have examined) is a bunch of paper-like filter material. It is folded into pleats (to maximize collection area) and arranged around a metal core. Viewed from the top, it looks like a many-pointed star. The purpose of this material is to collect particles that would otherwise be circulating in the oil. Usually there are few particles, particularly with modern engines. If something is coming apart, there will be metal, but that is not what we are talking about here. (Incidentally, every time I have had an engine coming apart I have also seen a very obvious metallic sheen in the drained oil. Watch for it.) As the pleated material collects debris it will offer more and more resistance to flow. In the extremely unlikely event that this gets serious, a bypass valve in the filter opens and lets unfiltered oil pass. The theory is that the bearings will be happier with dirty oil than with no oil at all. But regardless, this is the beginning of the end.

So ... until the filter collects enough debris to cause a meaningful pressure drop, it really doesn't need to be changed and changing it provides no advantage in engine life. (IIIRC some hydraulic systems actually measure this pressure drop as a maintenance indicator.)

I'm not going to wade too deeply into the topic of synthetic oil, except to point out that oil serves two basic purposes: lubrication and collection of contaminants like nasty acids that are the byproduct of combustion. The main purpose of oil changes is to get rid of what the oil has collected. Some of this stuff gets evaporated when the engine runs at temperature; this is why oil change intervals are specified both in time and in miles. The theory is that someone who takes many short trips with the engine often not running at full temperature will accumulate corrosive chemicals quickly even though he/she never accumulates the miles. So he/she should change at calendar intervals. I have never seen an argument that synthetic oil is any different than mineral oil in performing this important function. For lubrication, though, synthetic has some advantage in viscosity at low temperatures. It also is less prone to breaking down at high temperatures; modern cars tend to run at higher temperatures to achieve very marginal improvements in volumetric efficiency.

 

[latexman]

My car came from the factory with full synthetic. The owner's manual said change oil and filter at 10k miles intervals. One time a new manager at my regular, nationwide shop told me that oil filters are warranted only to 5k miles and I should bring it in for an oil filter change and topping off with oil between oil changes. I no longer go to that shop! In fact, most major oil filters product warrantees say something like, "this limited warranty is effective for the number of miles and driving severity published in the ownerʼs vehicle or engine manual as the recommended service interval for filter replacements".

 

[Sunset]

I've never done it this way but some reports I've seen are changing the filter more frequently than the oil. Think about it this way, the oil doesn't degrade but the filter picks up the contaminants. Why throw away the oil but keep the dirty filter longer?
The reports I'm talking about are from fleet operators. ....

On most of my cars I've ever had, if I pulled off the filter without first draining the oil, I'd have a big mess all over.
So I always drained the oil first.

 

[Ready2Go]

Been doing my own all changes since about age 21. All of my cars have easily broken 200k miles. Been using full synthetic for the last 20 years...mostly for the low temp performance. I go about 10k between changes. Used to do 5k miles until I read a study in Consumer Reports (I think) where they tested conventional oils in NYC taxi cabs. They found that even at 7500 miles there was plenty of life left but thought that was a safe point to recommend. I always change the filter with the fresh oil because, why not. It's cheap and takes 2 minutes.

 

[GrayHare]

Changed synthetic oil and filter every 7500 miles. When I sold the vehicle over 20 years later the engine still burned no oil. Maybe I could have extended the change frequency to 10000 miles without wear? 20000? 50000? Tough to know for sure.

 

[Winemaker]

@HarveyS, I am still waiting for your data to back up this assertion.

And, while you're at it please provide some backup for this statement.

Lots of people feel this way and it is an attractive argument, but it is based on a false premise: That frequent new filters offer more protection to the engine. This is not the case.

Inside an oil filter (at least all of the many I have examined) is a bunch of paper-like filter material. It is folded into pleats (to maximize collection area) and arranged around a metal core. Viewed from the top, it looks like a many-pointed star. The purpose of this material is to collect particles that would otherwise be circulating in the oil. Usually there are few particles, particularly with modern engines. If something is coming apart, there will be metal, but that is not what we are talking about here. (Incidentally, every time I have had an engine coming apart I have also seen a very obvious metallic sheen in the drained oil. Watch for it.) As the pleated material collects debris it will offer more and more resistance to flow. In the extremely unlikely event that this gets serious, a bypass valve in the filter opens and lets unfiltered oil pass. The theory is that the bearings will be happier with dirty oil than with no oil at all. But regardless, this is the beginning of the end.

So ... until the filter collects enough debris to cause a meaningful pressure drop, it really doesn't need to be changed and changing it provides no advantage in engine life. (IIIRC some hydraulic systems actually measure this pressure drop as a maintenance indicator.)

I'm not going to wade too deeply into the topic of synthetic oil, except to point out that oil serves two basic purposes: lubrication and collection of contaminants like nasty acids that are the byproduct of combustion. The main purpose of oil changes is to get rid of what the oil has collected. Some of this stuff gets evaporated when the engine runs at temperature; this is why oil change intervals are specified both in time and in miles. The theory is that someone who takes many short trips with the engine often not running at full temperature will accumulate corrosive chemicals quickly even though he/she never accumulates the miles. So he/she should change at calendar intervals. I have never seen an argument that synthetic oil is any different than mineral oil in performing this important function. For lubrication, though, synthetic has some advantage in viscosity at low temperatures. It also is less prone to breaking down at high temperatures; modern cars tend to run at higher temperatures to achieve very marginal improvements in volumetric efficiency.

Over the past 35 years, I held various management positions in production and maintenance in underground coal mines. Various hydraulic and lubrication oils were used in that time period, and it has been shown in the organization I worked with that synthetic oils are much more efficient than mineral based. Equipment that ran for 24 hours/day, 7 days/week created a lot of heat that it was impossible to even tolerate to be around. Synthetics changed that scenario; we didn't like heat in an underground coal mine. Oil samples were taken at regular intervals to determine impending bearing failures; different bearings had different material composition, and one could tell by the analytics which bearing might be failing. Filters were changed often, and we are talking about successions of filters of different micron size.

No, running with an engine in a car to pick up groceries or to the gym, doesn't require that kind of maintenance. But short trips doesn't get the impurities boiled out, either. If you ran mineral oil in the past there was always the debate over a paraffin or oil based oil. If I am going to spend $20,000 on an auto, I will use a synthetic oil and change the filter at the required interval, and if I feel there has been a need, I will change the filter sooner. My maintenance record with cars allowed me to drive one while our neighbors went through 5-6 during the same period. My mileage doesn't vary here.

 

[ncbill]

None of my vehicles are driven more than 12k miles annually (most 1/2 that)

So, synthetic, changed twice annually.

 

[FireFool]

Proper oil and filter maintenance is so dependent on the type of vehicle, the type of driving, whether you bought new vs used, and the expected length of ownership for your car. Following the manufacturers electronic maintenance minder, or the owners manual printed schedule is really the base recommendation as to what you should be doing. Most have different intervals dependent on the type of driving you do. If you have a turbo engine like I do you definitely want to be on top of your oil and filter changes. My Acura turbo requires not only FULL synthetic oil, but specifically recommends Mobil 1. While the factory recommendation is to replace the filter every other change for the $6 extra for an OEM Filtec manufactured one I choose to replace it with every change. I keep my cars a long time and I'm hopeful to prevent ever having a turbo bearing failure with this (OCD) diligence. If I only kept cars for 4 years I might not be as obsessive over maintenance. For Subaru's, which I've recently researched for an upcoming purchase by my daughter, the oil bypass valve within the filter needs to be a higher pressure specification than many of the more commonly used brands have. This gets to the point about paying attention to and specifying the brand of filter being used. Simplest for her will be OEM, but Purolator and WIX have filters meeting the Subaru specification - she will be instructed to never go to a quickie oil change place as the filters they use are the cheapest and lowest of quality. She will be told to ask/specify the filter being used.

If you're doing oil changes yourself, as indicated by the OP using the fujimoto valve, I personally think you should be using full synthetic and good quality filters with each oil change. Full synthetic Mobil 1 from Walmart is only about $3-$4 more than conventional and OEM oil filters can be had for between $6 and $11. The cost difference is really insignificant to not just go all the way in "doing it right".

 

[atmsmshr]

I follow manufacturers recommendations for engine oil. In our current cars that is Mobil 1 full synthetic which allows about 10,000 mile intervals. These longer intervals necessitate the use of fleece (polyester) oil filters. Like the dealer, I use a topside container to vacuum out the hot oil through the dipstick tube. Filter access is also topside in our cars.

The often neglected transmission oil and filter change can result in serious problems of great expense, but is usually only required every 40-80k miles.

Hydroscopic hydraulic brake fluid is usually changed every 2 years.

YMMV

 

[CoolRich59]

Don't have any technical knowledge to add, but if you are under warranty and have an issue, not being able to show you followed the recommended maintenance is an easy way to void your warranty.

 

[Car-Guy]

Don't have any technical knowledge to add, but if you are under warranty and have an issue, not being able to show you followed the recommended maintenance is an easy way to void your warranty.

I've owned a lot of new cars and I have never (ever) had a dealer ask for any maintenance receipts for any warranty work. Never even known anyone who was asked to produce receipts or proof of maintenance. Many years ago, I owned a vehicle that had both the engine and transmission repaired (actually replaced) under warranty with no questions about maintenance. I remember talking to the mechanic about it and he said "we can just tell". Years later, after a lot of working on cars, I understand what he was saying. YMMV

 

[jim584672]

I use full synthetic and a dealer oil filter. The cheap filters are not worth it.

 

[CoolRich59]

I've owned a lot of new cars and I have never (ever) had a dealer ask for any maintenance receipts for any warranty work. Never even known anyone who was asked to produce receipts or proof of maintenance. Many years ago, I owned a vehicle that had both the engine and transmission repaired (actually replaced) under warranty with no questions about maintenance. I remember talking to the mechanic about it and he said "we can just tell". Years later, after a lot of working on cars, I understand what he was saying. YMMV

Good to know, thanks. I'm probably overly cautious after reading the fine print of an owner's manual.

 

[Chuckanut]

I use full synthetic oil and always a new filter. The manufacturer recommends a change every 10,000 miles when using full synthetic under 'normal' conditions. However, I choose to error on the cautious side so I get the oil changed every 8,000 miles max. That's still a lot better than the old 3,000 miles of my first few cars.

FWIW, I would like the auto manufacturers to equip our cars to also show the hours of operation. (I assume modern car computers have that info. Why not make it easily available?) Most trucks, planes etc seem to be maintained based upon hours of operation. Hours of operation makes more sense to me than miles. After all, if I drive 100 miles in stop and go traffic over a period of a week, that is far harder on the car than a brisk 100 mile jaunt on the highway at a steady 60 mph.

Years ago I knew a fellow who put about 40K a year on his car mostly highway miles for work and to visit his gf who lived far away. He change the oil every 6 months regardless of mileage. The stuff that came out of his crankcase looked so good we used to joke that he should give it to us for use in our cars.

 

[ERD50]

... Hours of operation makes more sense to me than miles. After all if I drive 100 miles in stop and go traffic over a period of a week, that is far harder on the car than a brisk 100 mile jaunt on the highway at a steady 60 mph. ...

That (and more) is what the newer "Oil minders" do. They track hours, speed, cold starts, high temperature operation, all sorts of things to determine when the oil change is due, generally showing % of life remaining.

But an hour meter would seem like nice info to have.

-ERD50

 

[Walt34]

FWIW, I would like the auto manufacturers to equip our cars to also show the hours of operation.

My 2003 GMC pickup truck does have this, although it has to be reset annually, which I usually forget to do. I used to go by the oil minder, but now since I'm driving even less I just get it changed annually at the time of the state inspection.

 

[Car-Guy]

On most of my cars I've ever had, if I pulled off the filter without first draining the oil, I'd have a big mess all over.
So I always drained the oil first.

It really depends on where the filter is located in relation to the oil pan and how long the engine has been off.

 

[Car-Guy]

But an hour meter would seem like nice info to have.

-ERD50

That's all I have on my two tractors. They are pretty much seasonal machines anyway and since I only put about 100 to 150 hours a year on them, I change the oil and filters once a year in the spring of the year. Grease jobs ~monthly.

 

[Cortina]

If the OP's Car has been made in the last 10 years , I am amazed at the maker asking for an oil change every 4K miles ??

If not ... why are you doing it. (If it does ... I shall keep quiet)
With modern oils and manufacturing tolerances ... intervals are typically between 10 and 20K miles (UK).

Change in line with guidelines by maker ... and do filter every time would be my advice

 

[travelover]

That's all I have on my two tractors. They are pretty much seasonal machines anyway and since I only put about 100 to 150 hours a year on them, I change the oil and filters once a year in the spring of the year. Grease jobs ~monthly.

My tractor has a front end loader with specific requirements to be greased every 10 hours. I hate it when that interval falls in the middle of the night and I have to get up and go into the barn to grease it. Especially in the winter.

 

[Walt34]

My tractor has a front end loader with specific requirements to be greased every 10 hours. I hate it when that interval falls in the middle of the night and I have to get up and go into the barn to grease it. Especially in the winter.

Here ya go, an automatic grease lubricator:

https://www.amazon.com/SKF-TLMR-101...5&sr=8-2&keywords=automatic+grease+lubricator

 

[travelover]

Here ya go, an automatic grease lubricator:

https://www.amazon.com/SKF-TLMR-101...5&sr=8-2&keywords=automatic+grease+lubricator

Well, yea, but does it have a timer?

 

[Walt34]

I dunno, the description didn't say. But it should be easy to wire one in. Then you won't have to go out to the barn every 10 hours.

 

[meierlde]

Note that an hour meter costs between 10 and 20 on amazon. Then you just need to mount it somehow and connect to the ignition or similar circuit Or get an OBD II decoder reader and one of the pieces of info it keeps in total engine runtime, as well as total idle time. (These do cost a bit more but do a lot more than an hour meter, like telling you what the check engine light means when it comes on)

 

[Car-Guy]

My tractor has a front end loader with specific requirements to be greased every 10 hours. I hate it when that interval falls in the middle of the night and I have to get up and go into the barn to grease it. Especially in the winter.

I have a FEL on one of my tractors too. You might want to read the instructions a little closer and save yourself a few trips to the barn everyday. Mine says every 10 hours of "operation".

Speaking of barns, have you every noticed that it's at least 10 degrees colder in the barn than it is outside in the winter. How can that be!