Dogs in Grocery Stores, Restaurants, Kitchens

[JoeWras]

Interesting topic. Dogs vs. babies seems like a theme here so I'll lob in the grenade:

In a grocery store: Which is more unsanitary: a baby with a leaking diaper in the cart or a dog that would not willingly defecate in the cart? A child with the flu, cough or cold or a dog?

With all due respect, that's not a good comparison or question. It really doesn't matter which is more unsanitary because humans > animals. Well, for most of us, at least.

I value a human life over an animal's any day. A mother or father has little choice except to bring their little human along. The future of the race depends on it.

... Joe, who is childless and can't stand the sound of a child's voice...

 

[Dawg52]

Interesting topic. Dogs vs. babies seems like a theme here so I'll lob in the grenade:

In a grocery store: Which is more unsanitary: a baby with a leaking diaper in the cart or a dog that would not willingly defecate in the cart? A child with the flu, cough or cold or a dog?

In a restaurant: Would you insist that a crying, screaming child or barking dog be removed or quieted? Which one would bother you more?


The take away for me is that parents and pet owners need to be aware of the impact their critters/progeny have on others in public spaces and accept some personal responsibility for this. Alas, I don't rule the world

Someone said in the peeing thead......"I sometimes wonder if pet owning won't go the way of smoking - pet owners really have an effect on the people around them, and many are oblivious to it (like barking in the early morning, or the entire time I'm out in my yard). I'd be fine with no pets in public, you want a pet, keep it on your property (preferably indoors) and deal with it. Don't make your problem my problem."

Insert babies and I'm fine with that too.

 

[MissMolly]

I love dogs. I mean, I REALLY love dogs. But in a restaurant recently someone had their "service Samoyed". It shook. There was a snowstorm of white fur which flew around the restaurant and settled on every's food. Seriously This is supposed to be OK?

 

[Bir48die]

Interesting topic. Dogs vs. babies seems like a theme here so I'll lob in the grenade:

In a grocery store: Which is more unsanitary: a baby with a leaking diaper in the cart or a dog that would not willingly defecate in the cart? A child with the flu, cough or cold or a dog?

In a restaurant: Would you insist that a crying, screaming child or barking dog be removed or quieted? Which one would bother you more?

As a dog owner - I leave my dog home when I shop or eat. This also avoids the dog in hot car issue. As a mom, I was sorely temped a few times to tether my toddler to the cart rack outside the grocery store while I shopped in relative peace but... well...

The take away for me is that parents and pet owners need to be aware of the impact their critters/progeny have on others in public spaces and accept some personal responsibility for this. Alas, I don't rule the world

I appreciate that you do not take your pet into the stores or restaurants. Yes, this could go into the pet peeve category. I live outside of Portland which is the dog capitol of the world. No one cares if a human dies but if a dog is abused or abandoned it leads the news.

This is in my top 3 of things that piss me off. I am in Home Depot all of the time. I'm dodging dogs every time. Outside of my home I don't know where I can go and not have a dog there. Plus if it's your dog, I don't want to pet it or say how cute it is. Yes, I had dogs growing up and cats after that. We are too mobile and like our lawn too much (see dog peeing thread) to have a dog.

So, last week I'm at Home Depot. An older gentleman is looking a bit forlorn right in the front of the cash registers. Why? Because his dog peed about a gallon on the floor and it started running into the displays. How fun is that? Why not make sure your dog goes before you go in.

Anyway, I just don't get it folks. Those who have dogs: is it so bad if they don't go everywhere with you? I would guess that some can't leave them because they'd yap all day. Whatever.......

 

[GalaxyBoy]

On a walking trail last month (clearly marked as leashes required) I came upon a couple and the woman was sitting on the ground nursing her knee. From the conversation I clearly understood that the huge dog bounding about had knocked her down. The dog then ran at me and the man said, “don’t worry, he’s just being friendly.” I mean, WTF??

 

[ERD50]

I love dogs. I mean, I REALLY love dogs. But in a restaurant recently someone had their "service Samoyed". It shook. There was a snowstorm of white fur which flew around the restaurant and settled on every's food. Seriously This is supposed to be OK?

If it is as bad as you say, I'd get the manager, tell him/her you are leaving, aren't going to pay for anything more than maybe any appetizers or drinks you had before the incident, and tell them that if they are going to let messy dogs like this in their establishment, you are not coming back.

Maybe then, the managers will crack down on these fake service dog scams. And I'm assuming this was fake, I think those who really need one know the drill, and have well behaved animals that won't impose on anyone.

-ERD50

 

[harley]

So, the question: Is this a health problem?

Not compared to a salad bar.

 

[MichaelB]

This will not end well. Where you can bring a dog, why not a cat. Then a hamster, parakeet, and even a per snake. I can just imagine it, one grocery store patron shrieks and screams that someone’s cat ate her birdie. Even worse, someone on an airplane exits the toilet and, in a loud voice, says “has anyone seen my pet snake? “ with 6 hours of flight ahead.

 

[gauss]

Legally in my state, for the dog to be considered a legally protected Service Animal, the owner must have a disability (physical or mental). [-]Disability in my state generally as defined as being able to meet the qualifications for SSDI (ie Disability Social Security payments).
[/-]
edit: Thank you to those who correctly pointed out that the SSDI definition of disability (42 USC 46) is indeed overly restrictive and incorrect in this context. The ADA definition of disability is much broader (42 USC 12102).

So the problem here is then how to gauge if someone has a real disability or not. Probably not an easy call in a public situation.

On the other hand, in my rental property, if I have a no pet lease and someone brings in an undisclosed animal without providing notice, eviction proceedings will begin. If they request to bring the so called "Service Animal" in ahead of time, I would want to see the evidence of their disability. I suspect that most won't expect someone to call their bluff.

Worse case would be that it is legitimate, and the Service Animal would need to be accommodated.
edit: I will need to rethink my strategy listed above. Thanks for the feedback regarding this.

-gauss
p.s. To address MichaelB's above comment, in my state only dogs can qualify to be a "Service Animal".

 

[MissMolly]

If it is as bad as you say, I'd get the manager, tell him/her you are leaving, aren't going to pay for anything more than maybe any appetizers or drinks you had before the incident, and tell them that if they are going to let messy dogs like this in their establishment, you are not coming back.

Maybe then, the managers will crack down on these fake service dog scams. And I'm assuming this was fake, I think those who really need one know the drill, and have well behaved animals that won't impose on anyone.

-ERD50

We were finished so we just left. I have no idea what others did. Even a well trained service dog is going to shake. It's just their nature. I don't blame the dog at all. He was quiet, but he had no business in a restaurant.

 

[MissMolly]

Legally in my state, for the dog to be considered a legally protected, Service Animal the owner must have a disability (physical or mental). Disability in my state generally as defined as being able to meet the qualifications for SSD (ie Disability Social Security payments).

So the problem here is then how to gauge if someone has a real disability or not. Probably not an easy call in a public situation.

On the other hand, in my rental property, if I have a no pet lease, and someone brings in an undisclosed animal without providing notice, eviction proceedings will begin. If they request to bring the so called "Service Animal" in ahead of time, I would want to see the evidence of their disability. I suspect that most won't expect someone to call their bluff.

Worse case would be that it is legitimate, and the Service Animal would need to be accommodated.

-gauss
p.s. To address MichaelB's above comment, in my state only dogs can qualify to be a "Service Animal".

But, you're not allowed to ask for proof https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet so what can someone do?

 

[Teacher Terry]

We have well trained dogs but they don’t go everywhere with us. We do take them where allowed. We are on a 5 week trip with the 3 of them now. I enjoy seeing other people’s pets when I am out. At night we leave them in the motel room while we have dinner. The 2 little ones have flown quietly many times in a bag under the seat. People have no clue we even have them.

 

[Amethyst]

My understanding was that it is illegal to ask about the disability. You can, however, ask them what "service" the animal is trained to perform.

We have had tenants bring in dogs, which they successfully hid during inspections (since you have to give notice you are coming to inspect); only on move-out (when we cleaned the unit) did evidence of a dog/dogs emerge (dog food under the fridge, dog toys and bones). Even the best tenants occasionally fall for a cute puppy and simply have to bring it home.

On the other hand, in my rental property, if I have a no pet lease, and someone brings in an undisclosed animal without providing notice, eviction proceedings will begin. If they request to bring the so called "Service Animal" in ahead of time, I would want to see the evidence of their disability. I suspect that most won't expect someone to call their bluff.

.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Many people with disabilities are not on SSDI and do not qualify for it because they are working. I spent my career working in this area. Service dogs enable many people to work who otherwise might not be able to. You can not use that criteria to determine if the service dog is real. A cat or snake can’t provide a service but monkeys have been trained to do so for people with severe physical disabilities.

 

[Sojourner]

In a grocery store: Which is more unsanitary: a baby with a leaking diaper in the cart or a dog that would not willingly defecate in the cart? A child with the flu, cough or cold or a dog?

I'd vote for the child being more unsanitary in this instance. Way more unsanitary.

In a restaurant: Would you insist that a crying, screaming child or barking dog be removed or quieted? Which one would bother you more?

They would both bother me greatly, and I'd ask that each be removed or quieted (depending on how long the shrieking/barking went on).

The take away for me is that parents and pet owners need to be aware of the impact their critters/progeny have on others in public spaces and accept some personal responsibility for this. Alas, I don't rule the world

+1

Also, I have to say that I rarely see people in stores or restaurants with "service" dogs that are clearly not well-trained or are obviously just pets. I have never once seen a dog pee or poop or act badly in such a setting, at least not that I can remember.

 

[MissMolly]

My understanding was that it is illegal to ask about the disability. You can, however, ask them what "service" the animal is trained to perform.

We have had tenants bring in dogs, which they successfully hid during inspections (since you have to give notice you are coming to inspect); only on move-out (when we cleaned the unit) did evidence of a dog/dogs emerge (dog food under the fridge, dog toys and bones). Even the best tenants occasionally fall for a cute puppy and simply have to bring it home.

Per my link from above "A public accommodation or facility is not allowed to ask for documentation or proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Local laws that prohibit specific breeds of dogs do not apply to service animals.5"

 

[samclem]

I love most dogs, and seeing one in HD usually brings a smile to my face. Still, I wish they weren't allowed in, because a small but highly visible minority of inconsiderate/ignorant pet owners bring poorly behaved/poorly controlled dogs into these stores. Then people see this, generalize what they see to other dogs, and dog ownership gets an undeserved bad reputation.

I want to assure that we allow the blind and others who truly depend on animals, and who are responsible in where they take them and how they behave, to continue to have public support. For that reason, I'm in favor of tight restrictions on the accreditation of "service animals." Notes from an internet doctor shouldn't suffice.

 

[Snidely Whiplash]

I love dogs. I mean, I REALLY love dogs. But in a restaurant recently someone had their "service Samoyed". It shook. There was a snowstorm of white fur which flew around the restaurant and settled on every's food. Seriously This is supposed to be OK?

Restaurants are allowed to remove any animal, even a service or therapy animal, that is being disruptive or unsanitary. That is very clearly stated within the ADA statute.

"....I don't want to pet it or say how cute it is."

The dog then ran at me and the man said, “don’t worry, he’s just being friendly.” I mean, WTF??

Oh boy, my least favorite incidents. My wife is very afraid of dogs. As an ER nurse, she was working a shift and treated a little girl who had her face mauled by a vicious dog. It was unbelievably horrific and traumatic for everyone involved. I am dumbfounded by how many people think it's OK to let their dogs run at people to jump on them. Friendly or not, it scares my wife half to death.

On a separate note, with regard to flying, its no longer just dogs and cats for therapy animals. United now allows mini-horses onboard.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/apps/booking/flight/travelerServiceAnimal.aspx

This is unbelievable to me. I dont begrudge anyone with a legitimate disability the use of a service animal. Guide dogs and the work they do for the blind impress me to no end. But a mini-horse? In an airplane?

 

[candrew]

I want to assure that we allow the blind and others who truly depend on animals, and who are responsible in where they take them and how they behave, to continue to have public support. For that reason, I'm in favor of tight restrictions on the accreditation of "service animals." Notes from an internet doctor shouldn't suffice.

+1

I would add that some who truly depend on the companionship of a trained service dog may not exhibit outward signs of a physical disability. Case in point are some combat veterans with severe PTSD. And, as you point out, an internet doctor's note should never suffice.

 

[folivier]

This thread hits pretty close to home. I as many others like dogs, grew up with dogs, had dogs, but decided at this stage of life having a dog is too restricting to our travels.
My granddaughter has pretty severe allergies to dogs. She will have trouble breathing and breaks out into hives whenever she is close to dogs or is even in an area where dog hair or dander is present. Having this allergy and a mother who was bitten as a child, she is very scared of dogs. This is something we are working on and realize it will take a long time to get her to not be afraid of dogs. Hopefully she will outgrow her allergies.
So whenever we are with her and someone with their dog allows their dog to jump at her or approach her either aggressively or in a playful manner it presents a big problem. Like I said I like dogs but I love my granddaughter much more and will do anything to protect her. So if someone’s dog tries to jump on her please don’t try to tell me how friendly your dog is. Just keep control of your dog because if you don’t it may not be pleasant for you or your dog.
This is just me and my opinion. It doesn’t matter to me if someone’s dog is their “furbaby” or an “emotional whatever” or truly a trained service dog. My granddaughter’s safety and health is foremost in my mind when she is with me.
We usually try to avoid places where people usually take their dogs. Recently someone had their dog on a long leash and was approaching us while walking downtown. Their dog ran up to her in a friendly playful manner but my granddaughter almost ran into the street to avoid the dog. If I wouldn't have been holding her hand she could have been hit by a car. So my only wish is for people to realize not everybody likes their dog as much as they do.

 

[Walt34]

As a mom, I was sorely temped a few times to tether my toddler to the cart rack outside the grocery store while I shopped in relative peace but... well...

Mom? Is that really you?

 

[Bestwifeever]

This will not end well. Where you can bring a dog, why not a cat. Then a hamster, parakeet, and even a per snake. I can just imagine it, one grocery store patron shrieks and screams that someone’s cat ate her birdie. Even worse, someone on an airplane exits the toilet and, in a loud voice, says “has anyone seen my pet snake? “ with 6 hours of flight ahead.

OTOH, better than leaving the toilet and asking in a loud voice if anyone wants to see his pet snake

I'm not taking my crazy little dog anywhere and would prefer not to have other dogs near me in a restaurant, etc. I will say the dogs that are brought into restaurants in Europe are the most well behaved, laid back animals I've ever seen. I wouldn't mind them being under the table next to me.

 

[Koogie]

lol... our current (for now) neighbours have a yappy dog that barks all day.

But it is their screaming 2.5 year old grandchild that is the truly feral beast.

If we could only put one of them on a leash, we'd pick..........

 

[Luvdogs]

A couple over the top things I have seen--

We were on a Christmas cruise a few years ago, a lady brought her tiny cute dog in one of those baby strollers with her. Saw her several times--once out by the pool (in her baby stroller) but it was 80+ degrees out there. This same lady took the dog out of the stroller at a bar, held him while she sat at the bar and fed him bar goodies.

Another time at a (nicer) buffet in Vegas, someone put their plate on the floor and the dog was finishing up what they had not finished. How do I know? I almost stepped on it.

And I love dogs!

 

[Red Badger]

Yes, an extension of the ongoing bitch week.

Animal Planet advertising another shark week forthcoming. ER.org could compete with bitch week.