Delta Premium Economy - Not!

[NoiseBoy]

I was using Google Flights recently to shop around for fares to the continent in September. I like flying premium economy so that was the ticket class I had my search set to. I found some $1,200 fares to Paris, so after checking that my GF could get flights on the same dates, I booked our trip.

When I went to choose my seats, I learned that Delta had scammed me. They appear to have added a "free" checked bag to their Economy Plus ticket class, and also free drinks, and feel that is enough to qualify as premium economy service. Sadly, it's the same 3 x 4 x 3 seating on their ancient 767 planes with tiny overhead bins, cramped seats, and tiny TV monitors.

I went through with the booking because the my GF and I will arrive and depart within 90 minutes of each other from CDG, but I may try to report this to Google. I've flown in the PE cabins on Lufthansa and LOT and there is no way that Delta should be allowed to re-badge their economy plus section as premium economy.

 

[Souschef]

Did you go to seatguru.com to see if the seats were different? I think Premium Economy just gives you more legroom, but will not change the number of seats across a row.

 

[Red Badger]

Yeah, I just posted on another thread about Delta's convoluted naming convention between delta one, premium economy now rebranded as some flavor of first class (business class as it was called in the 90's) and economy comfort (the coach seats with a little extra legroom and not much else).

FWIW, Delta is not alone. The legacy carriers have all brought back what was business class three decades ago, but I guess marketing is trying to jazz up the name. Sad. BTW, for those of us that like that level of service and price point, we can thank Virgin Atlantic.

 

[BigNick]

Unless there is some legal definition of Premium Economy, I'm not sure what can be done about this. Presumably the more expensive ticket had a little button you could click to find out what you were getting for the extra money.

When companies see that the competition has introduced a cool new product ("Blargs"), and they know that they can't deliver an equivalent one (for example, because their planes just came out of a refurb and they don't want to move the seats around just yet), then simply renaming their existing product to "Blarg-ohs"(tm) is a pretty standard strategy.

 

[gindie]

Sadly, it's the same 3 x 4 x 3 seating on their ancient 767 planes

Not to get too technical, but every 767 I've ever flown in (several airlines), it was 2-3-2 seating in coach.

 

[Souschef]

Not to get too technical, but every 767 I've ever flown in (several airlines), it was 2-3-2 seating in coach.

I just checked seatguru and he is correct. The 747's are 3-4-3 in coach

 

[Aerides]

Unless you buy Business or First, the seat config (width, count per row) is exactly the same on all flavors of economy, on all major US airlines. The 17 different economy configs are usually only physically different in two ways: length/legroom, and placement in cabin (more forward).

The other benefits may include:
Actually getting an assigned seat (vs. not on the cheapest class)
Carry on bag allowance (vs. only "small personal item")
Checked bag allowance
F&B

For my money, (and height, or lack thereof) the main benefit is being able to continue to pick my seat and carry my 20" bag on with me. Those things used to be standard before economy started getting sliced up. I also like to be towards the front if possible to get off the flight as quickly as I can.

 

[Souschef]

Since we have cut way back on our traveling, we have been flying Business Class on any long trips. For short trips of a couple of hours, we do not care.
Our next two trips are cruises departing locally. NO airports

 

[audreyh1]

Wow, I really thought you had something different there too.

Although the word “economy” was a bit suspicious.

I thought Delta had a true Premium Economy different from Comfort+.

BTW - Delta does not use the term “Economy Plus”. That’s a United term. I thought Delta had a term like Comfort+ or Economy Comfort for that type of seat.

Is this a case where the Google Flights filter does a poor job of linking to the airline offerings and the airline is calling it something else?

On United it’s called Economy Plus for the longer seat pitch and front of economy cabin seating, and that name was clear to me.

But apparently United is going to intoduce a new separate cabin in between economy and business/first with larger seats and more perks such as dining on China and free drinks. They are calling it “Premium Plus”. Kind of scratching head on this. They have to retrofit planes. They are way behind on retrofitting for Polaris.

 

[NoiseBoy]

Not to get too technical, but every 767 I've ever flown in (several airlines), it was 2-3-2 seating in coach.

Yep, I stand corrected. I'm on a 2-3-2 767 on the way over and a 2-4-2 A330 on the way home. I guess I had the 4 seat center section on my mind when I typed up my first comments.

As to the other comments, Premium Economy on Lufthansa and LOT is a much better class than economy plus on United or Comfort + on Delta. I have flown all three. In PE, the seats are wider, you get much more legroom, your own armrests, etc. FWIW my Delta fare class is Comfort + (W). This is decidedly not a premium economy seat.

Checking seatguru before booking is solid advice. Unfortunately, my top requirement is meeting my GF in a foreign airport without too much time spent waiting for either of us, so my final decision often doesn't allow me a lot of flexibility when it comes to choosing a different flight because the seats that are available are not good. I made this post because I was frustrated in having Google show me the Delta fare and then I spent the time to find flights for my GF (and price Airbnbs) and then when all the other key details looked good, I discovered that I was paying $1200 for a glorified economy ticket.

Buyer beware, I guess is all I'm trying to say here. In the end, our flight times are actually very good (not too early and less than 90 minutes apart) and the price is $500 less than the average PE fare to Europe from Chicago this year, so I'll survive this trip in my narrow seat with cramped legroom. At least I'm forewarned for my next trip Oh, and I need to remember to search Lufthansa economy fares because I learned on this forum that they sell upgrades to their PE class at reasonable prices. I wonder if LOT does the same?

 

[NoiseBoy]

Did you go to seatguru.com to see if the seats were different? I think Premium Economy just gives you more legroom, but will not change the number of seats across a row.

Look up the seat maps for Lufthansa's 747-8 or LOT's 787-8 and you will see that the seat width and pitch in their premium economy sections are both larger than their coach class seats. The service level, especially on LOT, is higher too. On LOT, PE fares board on the red carpet with business and you get priority baggage handling and other perks. It's a really nice experience. Unfortunately, LOT's flights from Chicago depart at 21:30 which means that you miss the early connecting flights in Warsaw, so you tend to arrive at your destination in the evening.

 

[marko]

I just checked seatguru and he is correct. The 747's are 3-4-3 in coach

Trying to remember if you get to choose your seats before hitting 'buy' or only after.

If it is before your purchase, I'd expect you'd be able to see what the seating config is and not be surprised.

 

[audreyh1]

Trying to remember if you get to choose your seats before hitting 'buy' or only after.

If it is before your purchase, I'd expect you'd be able to see what the seating config is and not be surprised.

Before.

Plus by law you have 24hrs to cancel.

 

[audreyh1]

When google sends me over to United to book my tickets, after confirming my flight choices it takes me through seat assignment before I actually book the ticket. In fact you can look at the plane seat layout and availability before selecting/confirming the flight.

Jeez - the cross Atlantic 767s I’ve been on had 2-3-2 seating, and the 777s 3-3–3. 3-4-3 just sounds horrible. I know some 777s are 3-4-3.

 

[omni550]

Trying to remember if you get to choose your seats before hitting 'buy' or only after.

If it is before your purchase, I'd expect you'd be able to see what the seating config is and not be surprised.

Before.

Plus by law you have 24hrs to cancel.

In June I purchased r/t tix to Pais on Air France (code share) on Delta's site. It was an awful experience, including not being able to choose seats until AFTER buying the ticket...and then to find out EVERY SEAT in coach had an additional fee. (Do they think there will be some strap-hangers flying across the ocean?)

A fare that looked reasonable on Google Flights ended up costing a whole lot more after all their nickel-and-diming.

omni

 

[audreyh1]

In June I purchased r/t tix to Pais on Air France (code share) on Delta's site. It was an awful experience, including not being able to choose seats until AFTER buying the ticket...and then to find out EVERY SEAT in coach had an additional fee. (Do they think there will be some strap-hangers flying across the ocean?)

A fare that looked reasonable on Google Flights ended up costing a whole lot more after all their nickel-and-diming.

omni

Oh, horrible!

On flights with KLM/Air France in Europe you always pay something to pick your seat (fairly standard in Europe), so maybe that was it.

 

[Scrapr]

When google sends me over to United to book my tickets, after confirming my flight choices it takes me through seat assignment before I actually book the ticket. In fact you can look at the plane seat layout and availability before selecting/confirming the flight.

Jeez - the cross Atlantic 767s I’ve been on had 2-3-2 seating, and the 777s 3-3–3. 3-4-3 just sounds horrible. I know some 777s are 3-4-3.

what is worse than a middle seat? Why Two middle seats!

 

[GoodWishes]

We flew Delta Comfort to Madrid in April and back from Paris in May. On our flights, our seats were wider and longer than economy. We had 2 seats on the side so we didn't sit next to any stranger for the long flights where the economy section had 3 seats on the side. In addition, we were able to skip many lines which was especially nice in CDG. Delta Comfort was no where as nice as Delta One (Delta's business class) but is was well worth the several hundred dollars to us compare to economy.

If you buy airline tickets from partner sites (like buying Air France from Delta), you often can't pick your seats due to the airline computers don't connect to each other. So if you can, always buy from the airline's own web site, then you should be able to pick seats before finalizing the purchase.

 

[tulak]

Oh, horrible!



On flights with KLM/Air France in Europe you always pay something to pick your seat (fairly standard in Europe), so maybe that was it.

I was burned by this on our trip to Europe this summer. I booked Delta/Air France to Europe through KLM. I’m 99% positive KLM said I could choose my seats after booking the ticket. I went ahead and booked the ticket and was able to choose seats for the Delta flights, but not Air France.

For the Air France segment I wasn’t able to choose seats until check-in, 30 hours before the flight. The price was good enough that I went ahead and risked it and fortunately it worked out, but I was very annoyed with KLM.

I didn’t have an option to pay for an extra seat, which makes me think that segment was booked as basic economy, but I haven’t gone back to check the fare code.

Nowadays it takes a lot more effort to know what you are buying and even then it might not be clear until after you’ve purchased your ticket.

 

[audreyh1]

We flew Delta Comfort to Madrid in April and back from Paris in May. On our flights, our seats were wider and longer than economy. We had 2 seats on the side so we didn't sit next to any stranger for the long flights where the economy section had 3 seats on the side. In addition, we were able to skip many lines which was especially nice in CDG. Delta Comfort was no where as nice as Delta One (Delta's business class) but is was well worth the several hundred dollars to us compare to economy.

If you buy airline tickets from partner sites (like buying Air France from Delta), you often can't pick your seats due to the airline computers don't connect to each other. So if you can, always buy from the airline's own web site, then you should be able to pick seats before finalizing the purchase.

I guess I can’t keep these airlines seat classes straight! I guess Delta Comfort was what the OP was expecting.

 

[marko]

I flew all of my 30+ work years in First/Business. (4 million miles)

When I RE'd we tried coach on a long haul to Europe in an effort to save a few bucks.

After that, we decided that if we couldn't go "up front" we weren't going. We'll pay the extra money and find a way to economize elsewhere.

 

[RunningBum]

When I went to choose my seats, I learned that Delta had scammed me. They appear to have added a "free" checked bag to their Economy Plus ticket class, and also free drinks, and feel that is enough to qualify as premium economy service. Sadly, it's the same 3 x 4 x 3 seating on their ancient 767 planes with tiny overhead bins, cramped seats, and tiny TV monitors.

No, it's not the same, as others have pointed out, you get 2-4 inches of extra leg room. That may not sound like much, but it's not trivial. It's often the difference between banging your knees on the seat in front of you, and actually having some leg room.

As to the other comments, Premium Economy on Lufthansa and LOT is a much better class than economy plus on United or Comfort + on Delta. I have flown all three. In PE, the seats are wider, you get much more legroom, your own armrests, etc. FWIW my Delta fare class is Comfort + (W). This is decidedly not a premium economy seat.

... and the price is $500 less than the average PE fare to Europe from Chicago this year, so I'll survive this trip in my narrow seat with cramped legroom.

Sounds like you are expecting the same level of seat comfort at a significantly cheaper price.

 

[Chuckanut]

No, it's not the same, as others have pointed out, you get 2-4 inches of extra leg room. That may not sound like much, but it's not trivial. It's often the difference between banging your knees on the seat in front of you, and actually having some leg room.
.

If one 5'6" or shorter it may not be a big deal. But, if one is pushing 6 feet or more, the extra few inches are a big improvement. Alas, on Delta, the seats are often as narrow as the regular seats. If you are unlucky enough to sit next to a broad shouldered person or Mr. Elbows, well... not so good.

 

[HFWR]

I paid $250 to upgrade two seats from CDG to IND on the flight back from a recent trip. We were lucky to get the 2 seating on both transatlantic flights, but the extra legroom on the return flight was much appreciated.

 

[cathy63]

I was burned by this on our trip to Europe this summer. I booked Delta/Air France to Europe through KLM. I’m 99% positive KLM said I could choose my seats after booking the ticket. I went ahead and booked the ticket and was able to choose seats for the Delta flights, but not Air France.

For the Air France segment I wasn’t able to choose seats until check-in, 30 hours before the flight. The price was good enough that I went ahead and risked it and fortunately it worked out, but I was very annoyed with KLM.

I didn’t have an option to pay for an extra seat, which makes me think that segment was booked as basic economy, but I haven’t gone back to check the fare code.

Nowadays it takes a lot more effort to know what you are buying and even then it might not be clear until after you’ve purchased your ticket.

Argh! Ticketing through KLM is a major pain. Last year we bought tix from KLM to fly SFO-SLC-AMS, with the first leg being a codeshare on Delta and the second being a KLM dream liner. At every step of the purchase process KLM's website said I'd be able to choose seats for no charge on their plane at check-in and on the Delta flight immediately, which I was o.k. with. The whole thing about picking seats at check-in, that was a flat out lie!

If your first leg is on Delta, the check-in link takes you to Delta's website and there is no possible way to get boarding passes or pick seats for the KLM leg. What's more, the KLM agents at the origin airport can't or won't help you because your KLM flight leaves from a different airport. The Delta agents at the origin airport can't choose seats on a KLM leg, though they can print boarding passes with whatever random seats KLM assigned once they've verified your passport.

The whole thing was very frustrating!