The cavalry ain't comin' to the destroyed Bahamas quickly enough

[NW-Bound]

I just saw on the Web that the US has the policy of allowing Bahamians to travel to the US without a visa as long as they have no criminal records.

However, as they are not US citizens, they will not be eligible for any social assistance. And visitors without a visa can stay for only 90 days.

Bahamians without money are doomed, no matter what. When the same thing happens to a US citizen, he can move to another place and rebuild his life a lot easier.

When you are poor and a citizen of a small country that's not rich, that's a hard life.

 

[JustCurious]

However, as they are not US citizens, they will not be eligible for any social assistance.

I'm not so sure that is true, I don't think you have to be a U.S. citizen to get social assistance.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019...egal-immigration-welfare-services-dhs/595987/

 

[NW-Bound]

There are plenty of fuel stabilizers available that can treat gasoline so it remains useable for up to 2 years:

https://www.carbibles.com/best-fuel-stabilizer/

Yes, I do pour some Sta-Bil into the RV tank after each trip.

If I top it off for use in an emergency, I guess if I do not rotate and use the old gasoline by transferring it to my cars, I can burn it off when I take a trip.

The risk of a long-term power loss is not that great for me to do anything though.

 

[kgtest]

Hollywood would have made the movie "Hurricane" but sadly we see it annually. I always marvel staring down at that huge swath of sky all bottled up into a spiral from the International Space Station Live feed and I think... HOLY $HIT !!
Poor Bahamians!

 

[Andre1969]

Hollywood would have made the movie "Hurricane" but sadly we see it annually. I always marvel staring down at that huge swath of sky all bottled up into a spiral from the International Space Station Live feed and I think... HOLY $HIT !!
Poor Bahamians!

I think they did...wasn't Dorothy Lamour in it?

 

[Midpack]

The housing insurance companies are the ones with their dollars actually on the line and they can’t afford to cherry pick data that agrees with their politics for the sake of arguing on the internet. They don’t think sea level rise on the east coast is a theory and are making it increasingly harder to buy policies in certain vulnerable places.

As they should. If you choose to live in a higher risk area, you should shoulder-share all the above and beyond costs IMO.

For people who live in the U.S., I agree with you because the U.S. is a large and diverse country. But those people who were born in the Bahamas or other vulnerable islands did not choose to be born there, and most of them do not have a choice but to live there.

Fair enough. So what are you recommending?

 

[Midpack]

I just saw on the Web that the US has the policy of allowing Bahamians to travel to the US without a visa as long as they have no criminal records.

However, as they are not US citizens, they will not be eligible for any social assistance. And visitors without a visa can stay for only 90 days.

Bahamians without money are doomed, no matter what. When the same thing happens to a US citizen, he can move to another place and rebuild his life a lot easier.

When you are poor and a citizen of a small country that's not rich, that's a hard life.

This is the first hurricane to strike the Bahamas? What has happened every time before?

A hurricane passes near the Bahamas, on average, every two years. A hurricane makes a direct hit on the islands, on average, every four years. One Category 5 hurricane and seven Category 4 hurricanes have struck the Bahamas since storms were first recorded in 1851.

https://www.tripsavvy.com/frequency-of-hurricanes-in-the-bahamas-3266131

 

[JustCurious]

This is the first hurricane to strike the Bahamas? What has happened every time before?

Yes, hurricanes have been hitting the Bahamas and other caribbean islands for thousands of years and for the most part they have survived and rebuilt and not evacuated. But this time is different...this was the largest and most destructive and slowest moving hurricane ever to hit the Bahamas in recorded history. Why? Climate change has made the climate and the oceans hotter which feeds hurricanes and generally makes storms more intense.

The last 5 years have been the hottest in recorded history, and 20 of the warmest years on record have happened in the last 22 years. Coincidence?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...8-fourth-warmest-year-ever-noaa-nasa-reports/

https://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/the-10-hottest-global-years-on-record

 

[JoeWras]

They've been hit before. Not sure what the response was because populations change. Hurricanes today tend to impact more people than a half century ago due to population growth.

Here's cumulative picture of hurricane tracks for the last 170 years. N. Bahamas seem more impacted.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/images/1851_2017_allstorms.jpg

Zoom in:

 

[Midpack]

This is [NOT] the first hurricane to strike the Bahamas? What has happened every time before?
https://www.tripsavvy.com/frequency-of-hurricanes-in-the-bahamas-3266131

Yes, hurricanes have been hitting the Bahamas and other caribbean islands for thousands of years. But this time is different because this was the largest and most destructive and slowest moving hurricane ever to hit the Bahamas in recorded history. Why? Climate change.

Leaving climate change aside, again the Bahamas have been hit with a Cat 5 and seven Cat 4’s. Dorian may/not be the worst, but how did the Bahamas recover from the other 8 worst hurricanes? Might/not take longer this time, but this is not new ground altogether.

Again, what are you recommending?

 

[JoeWras]

Yes, hurricanes have been hitting the Bahamas and other caribbean islands for thousands of years. But this time is different...this was the largest and most destructive and slowest moving hurricane ever to hit the Bahamas in recorded history. Why? Climate change has made the climate and the oceans hotter which feeds hurricanes and generally makes storms more intense.

20 of the warmest years on record have happened in the last 22 years. Coincidence?

https://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/the-10-hottest-global-years-on-record

This thread may go off the rails. Please be careful. The history of hurricane strength is sketchy before 1920, and poorly recorded before 1850.

And climate has been changing and will continue to. There was no Bering Strait not long ago.

 

[JustCurious]

This thread may go off the rails. Please be careful. The history of hurricane strength is sketchy before 1920, and poorly recorded before 1850.

And climate has been changing and will continue to. There was no Bering Strait not long ago.

I did not say why the climate was changing, but the fact that the climate is changing dramatically and quickly due to increased levels of greenhouse gases is not up for debate, it is scientific fact.

 

[Midpack]

I did not say why the climate was changing, but the fact that the climate is changing due to increased levels of greenhouse gases is not up for debate, it is scientific fact.

And not what this thread is about, see the OP. If you want to debate climate change, start another thread...

 

[JustCurious]

Leaving climate change aside, again the Bahamas have been hit with a Cat 5 and seven Cat 4’s. Dorian may/not be the worst, but how did the Bahamas recover from the other 8 worst hurricanes? Might/not take longer this time, but this is not new ground altogether.

Not all category 4s and 5s are the same. This time is different. Dorian was bigger, stronger, slower and more destructive than anything the Bahamas has seen in recorded history. Look at the photos and the videos of Abaco and Grand Bahama. Nothing like that has happened before.

A category 4 hurricane has sustained winds of 130 mph. That is not even comparable to Dorian with sustained winds of 185 mph and a slow moving storm at that sitting over those islands for 2 days dumping unprecedented amounts of water and flooding houses literally up to the attic. This is new ground.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...s-lives-shattered-hurricane-dorian-s-n1051251

 

[JustCurious]

And not what this thread is about, see the OP. If you want to debate climate change, start another thread...

You asked why this time was different. I am unable to answer your question without referencing climate change and I am unable to leave climate change aside since it is the answer to your question, regardless of what the OP or anyone else says. I do not want to debate climate change, I am simply stating facts. This is new ground, despite your protestations to the contrary.

 

[JustCurious]

Leaving climate change aside, again the Bahamas have been hit with a Cat 5 and seven Cat 4’s. Dorian may/not be the worst, but how did the Bahamas recover from the other 8 worst hurricanes? Might/not take longer this time, but this is not new ground altogether.

The Saffir-Simpson scale was created in 1971, and at that time the highest category hurricane was 5 (the scale is 1 to 5) with sustained winds of greater than 157 mph. Hurricane Dorian had sustained winds of 185 mph. If you follow the same progression of the scale, then Category 6 would be sustained winds of 183 or higher and Dorian would be a Category 6. But of course the scale doesn't go that high since the creators of the scale did not anticipate a storm of such intensity.

This is different. The Bahamas has not been hit with a Category 6 hurricane before. Thousands of people have already evacuated Grand Bahama and Abaco, and thousands more are lined up desperately waiting to leave because their homes and livelihoods have been destroyed. This has never happened before, despite the fact that hurricanes have been hitting the Bahamas for centuries. I call this new ground.

 

[Andre1969]

The Saffir-Simpson scale was created in 1971, and at that time the highest category hurricane was 5 (the scale is 1 to 5) with sustained winds of greater than 157 mph. Hurricane Dorian had sustained winds of 185 mph. If you follow the same progression of the scale, then Category 6 would be sustained winds of 183 or higher and Dorian would be a Category 6. But of course the scale doesn't go that high since the creators of the scale did not anticipate a storm of such intensity.

This is different. The Bahamas has not been hit with a Category 6 hurricane before.

The main reason the scale only goes up to Category 5 is probably because, once you get up to a storm of that intensity, you're pretty much screwed anyway. And, back in the day, the equipment testing for wind velocity would usually get damaged at those speeds and wouldn't give a reliable recording. Supposedly, that's what happened with Hurricane Camille in 1969. They also didn't know as much about hurricanes in the old days, as they do today. I remember reading some old books on them, published back in the early 70's, that theorized hurricanes could reach speeds up to 300 mph, and tornadoes, up to 900. They also used to tell you things like open up the windows on the leeward side of the house to equalize pressure, but if you get into the eye, close all those windows and open up the others, because the wind will be coming from the opposite direction. But, time marches on, and so does technology and knowledge, and we learn more about these storms, all the time.

But, look at that scale as sort of like, when your car gets into an accident. Once the claims adjuster finds enough damage to declare it a total loss, they stop. There's no need to look for even more catastrophic damage

 

[NW-Bound]

This is the first hurricane to strike the Bahamas? What has happened every time before?

https://www.tripsavvy.com/frequency-of-hurricanes-in-the-bahamas-3266131

That could be one of the reasons they remain poor. If you have to rebuild your home every decade or so, it keeps you from accumulating wealth.

 

[TheRunningMan]

There was no Bering Strait not long ago.

...and there was no Atlantic Ocean long ago.

 

[Midpack]

Nothing like that has happened before.

You asked why this time was different. This is new ground, despite your protestations to the contrary.

Protestations? I acknowledged Dorian might be the worst that’s hit the Bahamas. But it’s not the first catastrophic hurricane to hit the Bahamas by any means, lives have been lost and parts of the islands have been completely destroyed dozens of times. It makes no difference if your home/neighborhood/city was destroyed by 185 mph winds or 130 winds - might/not take longer but rebuilding and recovery is the same.

I wasn’t asking why the hurricane was different, I was asking why recovery is different. More extensive maybe, different no.

I see you’re not going to offer any recommendations. Anyone can state obvious problems, it’s a lot more convincing of you have recommendations too.

 

[JustCurious]

Protestations? I acknowledged Dorian might be the worst that’s hit the Bahamas. But it’s not the first catastrophic hurricane to hit the Bahamas by any means, lives have been lost and parts of the islands have been completely destroyed dozens of times. It makes no difference if your home/neighborhood/city was destroyed by 185 mph winds or 130 winds - might/not take longer but rebuilding and recovery is the same.

I wasn’t asking why the hurricane was different, I was asking why recovery is different. More extensive maybe, different no.

Ok, I shouldn't have said protestations, sorry about that.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree about what it means to be different. Yes, the Bahamas has been hit by hurricanes before, and yes, lives have been lost and parts of islands suffered damage. To that extent it is not different. But it IS different when the hurricane is much more severe than anything in recorded history and the amount of flooding is so much more that the extent of damage is much more extensive and widespread than it has ever been before. That's different. The scale of destruction and the loss of life has not been this bad before to the point where the degree of damage and devastion is different. Yes, there are more people, that's true, but it just hasn't been so bad before that entire cities have been destroyed and thousands of people have been evacuated. I say that's different, you say it's not different, so we will disagree.

So to answer your question, the recovery will be different because the extent of the damage and devastation is different.

The solution is for humans to dramatically reduce the amount of greenhouse gases that we are pumping into the atmosphere everyday.

 

[Midpack]

Yes, the Bahamas has been hit by hurricanes before, and yes, lives have been lost and parts of islands suffered damage. To that extent it is not different.

Thanks, thats all I was saying from the start. And I acknowledged Dorian was worse from the start. This has happened all over the Caribbean time and time again, and recovery is essentially the same, what varies is the scale. If Dorian-Bahamas proves to be the worst, it is what it is.

Why and whether it’s worse now is not the subject of this thread, and another thread, though I personally agree climate change is a factor.

 

[gerntz]

And climate has been changing and will continue to. There was no Bering Strait not long ago.

Was there a Bering Strait before not long ago?

 

[travelover]

The new normal is America first and we really don't care what happens to anyone else. We won't ask for their help and they shouldn't expect ours.


Oh, and get off our lawn and borders!

 

[gerntz]

And not what this thread is about, see the OP. If you want to debate climate change, start another thread...

But he's not debating it. He's stating it as an inarguable fact.

I agree. It's always changed/not been constant.