How do you deal with a wife with no FIRE plans?

[marko]

RUN!!!!

 

[Red Badger]

I find it curious how many folks accept the premise that the culture plays any substantial role here. There is no shortage of gold diggers, charlatans, etc. irrespective of race, nationality, culture, age, gender, etc. IMHO, going into any relationship with eyes wide shut is asking for whatever happens later.

Trophy spouses are often expensive. You have acquisition costs, maintenance costs, then, if warranted, disposition costs. Some folks approach real estate this way and opt to rent rather than buy. Other folks approach relationships in the same way.

FWIW, DW is an Asian immigrant to the US. I'm certain that I scored the trophy in the deal.

 

[Fermion]

Trophy spouses are often expensive. You have acquisition costs, maintenance costs, then, if warranted, disposition costs. Some folks approach real estate this way and opt to rent rather than buy. Other folks approach relationships in the same way.

Is there some sort of rent to own or lease purchase option?

 

[Taxman59]

Is there some sort of rent to own or lease purchase option?

+1000

 

[Gumby]

As Jack Reacher said to Sandy, "the cheapest woman tends to be the one you pay for."

To be fair, the spousal jackpot syndrome works both ways. There are many young male "Mongrels who ain't got a penny, sniffing for tidbits like you on the ground" (to quote Elton John)

 

[JustCurious]

In a lot of Asian families, there are 3 generations (as the story goes):
1) poor and uneducated. Works hard and puts all their resources (no retirement savings) into their kids so that the kids may have a better life
2) educated and working, doing well. The kids have a paid for education and successful career. They live frugally like their parents and know the value of money. They earn enough to help the parents and support their kids. They build wealth.
3) spoiled. They grow up with ample resources and parents always helping out and leading the way to success. They don’t build on the momentum of the second generation but instead spend it. And so the cycle repeats.

I don't think that pattern is unique or limited to Asian families, it is a common pattern among American families as well, including my own.

 

[razztazz]

From m y post #19:

Not that all these kinds of marriage/arrangements are like this with Filipino gals, but it seems to be a usual theme as I recall.

Indeed. Having known many of these arrangements mostly from having been in the Air Force but also since I left, this is a well-known "business model" in some countries. Marry a "rich American" and you've got a permanent cash flow. It is pervasive and quite likley a measurable part of the nation's economy.

 

[razztazz]

I'm perplexed by all of the cultural content in this thread. Back in the old days, at least, you married a family, not a person. If your spouse has significant family baggage, that baggage often becomes your baggage.

I have never, and will never, get married, so I can freely pontificate upon a subject with which I have no practical experience. Hey, it's the internet!

Yes! My experience is that while it is still a bigger part of Non-U.S. "social-think" it has indeed been a part of this and any other culture. I am not married either and this is one enormous reason. I decided at some point if I ever got married she'd have to be an orphan.

 

[flyingaway]

Yes! My experience is that while it is still a bigger part of Non-U.S. "social-think" it has indeed been a part of this and any other culture. I am not married either and this is one enormous reason. I decided at some point if I ever got married she'd have to be an orphan.

For those of you who are single in retirement, do you sometimes feel lonely?

I ask this question, because, as a married person, I sometimes wish I could be left alone. But in most times, I feel that I need a person around.

 

[razztazz]

For those of you who are single in retirement, do you sometimes feel lonely?
I ask this question, because, as a married person, I sometimes wish I could be left alone. But in most times, I feel that I need a person around.

Short answer: No . I realized by the time I was 30 that, no, I wasn't "lonely" whatever that means. I did not feel "incomplete". If I wanted to do or not do something I just did it. I didn't need to do it with somebody. I did not need somebody else to make me feel like somebody. If I wanted or needed to be married bad enough I would have done what I had done in every other area of my life when I wanted something. I'd have made the arrangements and gone out and done it.

I don't get what people mean when they say they can't live alone...? I suppose the same way they don't get me when I say I don't need or want somebody else around all-the-time.

Whenever a relationship broke up (Actually faded. No hearts were broken in the process) and I went back to being "alone" I always had that feeling of: Ahh, now things are back to normal. That told me something.

As far as the family stuff goes... I can easily see how my upbringing disabused me of the utility or even desirability of a wife and kids. I'll leave the rest to ya'lls imagination.

Someone on another forum years ago put it very well: I'm not afraid of dying alone. I'm scared to death of having to live with somebody all the time.

Note on life and people I have known:

I have known very few people like myself who have said "Gee, I wish I had gotten married." I know that's a small demographic since most people are or were married, so maybe there's not enough data points for a fair analysis. On the other hand I have seen that the world is full of married people who say if they had it to do over again they would not have gotten married. And that is a large enough set of data points.

 

[JustCurious]

I have known very few people like myself who have said "Gee, I wish I had gotten married." I know that's a small demographic since most people are or were married, so maybe there's not enough data points for a fair analysis. On the other hand I have seen that the world is full of married people who say if they had it to do over again they would not have gotten married. And that is a large enough set of data points.

You can find data points to fit any thesis that you want, that's called confirmation bias. There are also people who are married and are very happily married and would not want to live any other way and would get married all over again in a hearbeat.

 

[Red Badger]

Is there some sort of rent to own or lease purchase option?

This is America. Everything is for sale, and often in time based increments.

 

[razztazz]

You can find data points to fit any thesis that you want, that's called confirmation bias. There are also people who are married and are very happily married and would not want to live any other way and would get married all over again in a hearbeat.

You're making a rather knee-jerkish assumption (don't worry most people seem to like to do it) that I was somehow biased. I am not looking for confirmation. That is lying to one's self. My selection of words removed that possibility. I know one can find whatever they want. I just put forth the simple observation of the numbers. Yes, I have seen people appear to be quite happily married. Maybe they are. Maybe they have just psychologically accommodated their situation better than others? I do know know that when I see them most of the time I say: Well, maybe that's what makes them happy but if I had that it would not make me happy.

 

[Letj]

In a lot of Asian families, there are 3 generations (as the story goes):
1) poor and uneducated. Works hard and puts all their resources (no retirement savings) into their kids so that the kids may have a better life
2) educated and working, doing well. The kids have a paid for education and successful career. They live frugally like their parents and know the value of money. They earn enough to help the parents and support their kids. They build wealth.
3) spoiled. They grow up with ample resources and parents always helping out and leading the way to success. They don’t build on the momentum of the second generation but instead spend it. And so the cycle repeats.

In many Asian cultures, the kids are the retirement plan. They invest all their money into their kids. It isn’t like the US where the parents are always focused on themselves. Asian families can be very selfless. The OP has issues with the reciprocal nature of that.

There are cultural differences between the asian country stereotypes. But the stories of a young poor asian immigrant girl marrying an older geeky white guy are all very similar. I don’t know what the OP was expecting here?

I know many who are very happy because they have communicated and accepted each other’s position.

Edit: I think the most telling is his intent to divorce her a few years down the road, when it is most financially beneficial for him (she cooks/cleans/romance while he saves them he dumps her with nothing after 5 years right before the prenup ends)

This observation is quite true but it’s not just Asians. It’s true for just about any poor developing country whether they’re Africans, middle easterners, etc and it’s not because they are selfless. It has more to do with the fact that these folks are often poor and uneducated and accumulated little to no resources (often eking out a subsistence living). The expectation is that some or one of their many children will make it out of poverty by getting a good job in the city, moving to Europe, America or a rich gulf state and remit money back to their parents and extended family. The children who make it often oblige because they were raised with that expectation. If the parents are able to save a little money, they would spend it on the most promising kid (usually a male) to help the kid to leave the country or get an education with the hope that the kid would then support them. Even if they don’t have any money to help the kid, they still expect to be supported as the parents. It’s definitely not done out of selflessness. It’s quid pro quo. It is very difficult to get ahead in developing countries and people remain in poverty their whole lives and really need help from their children when they grow old. In many instances, they will move in with their grown children to help care for grand children and help with chores. This benefits both the children and their parents.

 

[Sojourner]

Hmmm... three whole days without a post from OP. And that one was only his 2nd, just 15 minutes after he started the thread.

Seems to me that if someone starts a thread asking for advice about something as important and consequential as a possible divorce and how it might affect their FIRE plans, they would actually take the time to be an active (or at least occasional) participant in the thread. Something smells very fishy here.

 

[Fleur58]

Its been my experience in having Philipino friends that they are under strong family pressure to send money home or help other poorer relatives in the States. When I has a Nurse Manager many of my nurses routinely worked 16 hours a day because they were supporting families at home as well as additional family in the US. Later in my career in Pharmaceuticals I worked with a female Filipino doctor who was near bankruptcy because she was under constant requests from family to send money for nieces and nephews in college and also build a luxury home for family in the Philipines. If family knows you have a good job like an RN, they expect that the lucky person in the US is rich and therefore can afford to send money.

I don't think you are over reacting and you should tell your wife that there is a limit to your patience and generosity.

 

[Gumby]

Hmmm... three whole days without a post from OP. And that one was only his 2nd, just 15 minutes after he started the thread.

Seems to me that if someone starts a thread asking for advice about something as important and consequential as a possible divorce and how it might affect their FIRE plans, they would actually take the time to be an active (or at least occasional) participant in the thread. Something smells very fishy here.

That smell has been evident from the very first post. But the thread is amusing in any event.

 

[Souschef]

It does not even have to be a poor developing country. When I was in Scotland, near the place where our nuclear subs were based, the economy there was not great.
Many of the women married sailors as a way to get to the States. Needless to say, the local men were very resentful about this.

 

[razztazz]

Hmmm... three whole days without a post from OP. And that one was only his 2nd, just 15 minutes after he started the thread.

Seems to me that if someone starts a thread asking for advice about something as important and consequential as a possible divorce and how it might affect their FIRE plans, they would actually take the time to be an active (or at least occasional) participant in the thread. Something smells very fishy here.

I call this the "Dr Laura Syndrome" Remember her? These problemed-up people would call in ostensibly seeking advice or help and she'd start raising her voice and lecturing or even castigating them. At first I thought she was a twit. But after taking it in it was apparent from listening to these people and their problems that they really didn't want help or advice. What they wanted was approval. And in a public setting. It's OK your problems are somebody else's fault. You're right. The world is picking on you. Don't feel bad about yourself you didn't do anything wrong. I didn't really like or Dr Laura or her methods but that was the underlying dynamic.


The OP did not get an torrent of sympathy and support, even if he did get some. Nobody likes facing the music.

 

[dirtbiker]

Hmmm... three whole days without a post from OP. And that one was only his 2nd, just 15 minutes after he started the thread.

Seems to me that if someone starts a thread asking for advice about something as important and consequential as a possible divorce and how it might affect their FIRE plans, they would actually take the time to be an active (or at least occasional) participant in the thread. Something smells very fishy here.

He may not want to be active in the thread. For all we know, he may have wanted answers, gotten them, and then didn't want to explain himself any further... Or he could be trolling...

 

[Amethyst]

Old ones, too. Hence the old saw that men over 70 are looking for a "nurse with a purse."

There are many young male "Mongrels who ain't got a penny, sniffing for tidbits like you on the ground" (to quote Elton John)

 

[Sunset]

Prenups don’t end.

True, but they effectively end once children are in the family, as the demands for child support (bigger house, van, vacations in Europe) are all suddenly reasonable when the spouse is well off enough to have a prenup.

Even if the children are only born while married (not related biologically to spouse).

So OP doesn't need a vasectomy as that won't prevent pregnancy.

 

[CRLLS]

I find it interesting that the OP is upset with his wife sending money to her family in the Philippines to the point of divorcing her, while he is considering staying married for a few more years for his financial situation to improve before divorcing her. Not much difference between the two of them IMO. They are a good match for each other, married for financial gain.

 

[FIREd_2015]

Back when I was in college, I had a Chinese classmate who got married soon after graduating to a Chinese American girl. Before they got married, his fiance was working and living at home with her family (in California) and turning her paychecks over to her parents. After they got married she moved in with her new husband but continued to turn over her paychecks to her parents. The husband found out about this and convinced her that she needed to keep those paychecks for herself. However, her family wasn't too happy about losing the income stream and one day stopped by the daughter's house and "reposed" her car. They claimed that it was the family's car and not hers. A police report for a stolen vehicle was filed but she did eventually get the car back. I haven't stayed in contact with them but the last I heard was they were able to work things out and are still together.

 

[bencasey]

For those of you who are single in retirement, do you sometimes feel lonely?

I ask this question, because, as a married person, I sometimes wish I could be left alone. But in most times, I feel that I need a person around.

You can be married and feel lonely too, I'm sure. I've been single my whole life and very happy. Now dating someone for over 3 years and I can't wait to break up with her. Too demanding, too needy, too clingy. At 62 years old, I don't need someone telling me what to do, who I can be friends with, etc. I might be able to have a relationship but the person would have to be independent like I am, with their own interests and their own friends. And, no, I don't feel that I need another person around. Perfectly happy with my cat keeping me company.