The Electric Vehicle Thread

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Our next car will almost definitely be electric. However, we're a one car family and likely still have at least another good 5 years of usage in our current vehicle. I'm sure this has been discussed before but price is a concern both from a current cost perspective and how long government subsidies will continue for, and also range. I suspect we'd be taking more roadtrips in retirement. The most we've driven in a day is likely Calgary to Vancouver which is about 1000km/600mi. But for practical purposes, we'd probably be ok driving half of that to break for a meal and charge (and is also a more common trip for us from Vancouver to Portland).
Telsa's are already capable of that range (ie. 500km/300mi) but I'm not sure I want to pay a premium to get a Tesla. And with our timeframe, I expect the EV choices to evolve significantly over the next 5 years, though at the risk of shrinking/disappearing subsidies.
 
YVRRocketSurgery said:
Our next car will almost definitely be electric. However, we're a one car family and likely still have at least another good 5 years of usage in our current vehicle. I'm sure this has been discussed before but price is a concern both from a current cost perspective and how long government subsidies will continue for, and also range. I suspect we'd be taking more roadtrips in retirement. The most we've driven in a day is likely Calgary to Vancouver which is about 1000km/600mi. But for practical purposes, we'd probably be ok driving half of that to break for a meal and charge (and is also a more common trip for us from Vancouver to Portland).
Telsa's are already capable of that range (ie. 500km/300mi) but I'm not sure I want to pay a premium to get a Tesla. And with our timeframe, I expect the EV choices to evolve significantly over the next 5 years, though at the risk of shrinking/disappearing subsidies.
Click to expand...

VW will be selling some nice looking EV's less expensive than a Tesla in 2020 and 2021. And thats before 11k or so in rebates/credits. People will be buying these instead of the Ford EV being sold for 44k.
 
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Sunset said:
In theory, but I bet what happens is a person stops at the charger, goes and gets a bite to eat and comes back in 45 minutes, much to the anger of the person waiting to use the charger...

Just like gas cars, it's annoying to wait in line to fill up, but at least for a gas car the wait time is about 5 minutes per car, so 2 cars in line is a 10 minute wait.
Two EV in line and it's 46 minutes before you get a turn.

For that reason, I'd probably want to fully charge before heading off, so I could skip a station if there was a line up (if possible).
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Not usually , as there are usually at least 4 or 5 bays at each super charger satiation from wha I’ve seem sometimes quite a few more. I could see there being issues in the future as they get more popular. One would hope they try to keep pace with production. I’m sure they’re well,aware of the bad rap they’d get if that happened though
 
TromboneAl said:
Perhaps a dedicated electric vehicle thread would help non EV enthusiasts avoid reading the holier-than-thou posts that EV owners write.
Click to expand...

Seems a lot of folks here are holier than I...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for EV's. The sooner they become the norm, the better.

Until then, I can't justify the cost. So I still have some questions...

First, what's the true effective range, assuming I'm running the air conditioning for the whole trip? What if the outside temperature is in the teens (F) and I'm running the heat?

And by "effective range" I mean real-world. Not driving 10 miles under the limit in the passing lane. (That's already a problem with Prius drivers. I don't want to see that catch on with full EV's!) Not pulling into the charging station at 0% SOC. At what SOC do you typically look to recharge?

Anyway, it's good to read first-hand positive experiences with EV's. My own suspicion is that there will be a huge shift once the realistic range and purchase price are close enough to IC engine vehicles. I hope it happens before I buy my next vehicle.
 
At the moment Tesla is the only practical car for long distance driving. Tesla’s supercharger network is the only one of its kind. Relying on third party chargers for long road trips is not practical yet. There are not that many of them out there and they are not nearly as fast as the Tesla chargers.

A V3 supercharger can add 75 miles of range in 5 minutes.
 
Ready said:
I feel like when we have discussions about EVs in this forum we hear a lot of negativity from people who really don’t know much about them. It seems like the same group that want to argue why their flip phone is better than my Iphone. It’s kind of pointless to argue about it.
Click to expand...

I feel like when we have discussions about EVs in this forum we hear a lot of POSITIVITY from people who actually own EVs. It seems like that same group only want to only point out their anecdotal positive experiences and never mention anything derogatory.
 
Bigdawg said:
I feel like when we have discussions about EVs in this forum we hear a lot of POSITIVITY from people who actually own EVs. It seems like that same group only want to only point out their anecdotal positive experiences and never mention anything derogatory.
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Yes, because they are sharing their actual ownership experience. If people who owned EVs were having bad experiences with them they would share those experiences too.

But the people who do not own EVs have not taken the time to fully educate themselves on much of anything about them. It’s not meaningful to have a conversation about EVs with people who are generally negative about them yet know virtually nothing about them.
 
NW-Bound said:
A Youtuber who made a 2,000-mi trip and who had to pay $0.28/kWh for charging said the fuel cost for his Tesla 3 was about 80% of the cost for gasoline of an equivalent ICE car.

I did not know about that $0.28c/kWh. Tesla can't keep on giving away free lifetime charging. I don't blame them.
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Most people charge at home for around 10 cents, of course this does not include some states like California but gasoline is much more expensive in those states.
Here is a PDF with calculations for charging at home charging:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...y%202019.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3LgxQvmnqvzDEiLyfz0YU0


Summery:
It is cheaper to drive a mile on electricity than it is to drive a mile on gasoline. Though your electricity costs will
go up if you’re charging your electric car at home, your gas costs will decrease more. We've done some math to
demonstrate cost savings and found that, by switching from the average new gas-powered car to the average
new all-electric vehicle, the average Virginia driver will save 6.44 cents per mile, which amounts to $996 per
year or $83 per month.
These numbers exceed the Union of Concerned Scientists' cost savings estimate of $770/year from 2017, which
you can access here. Considered another way, a new gas-powered car would have to get 70 miles per gallon in
order to be cheaper per mile than the average new electric vehicle (but the gas powered car would emit about
twice as much pollution). Here’s how we arrived at those numbers.
Saving 6.44¢/mileHow much does it cost to drive a mile on electricity?
The average new all-electric car available through Electrify Your Ride VA requires about 0.29 kilowatt-hours
(kWh) per mile driven, according to the U.S. Department of Energy’s Electric Car Comparison Tool. (The
2019 Chevrolet Bolt requires 0.28 kWh/mile, the 2018 BMW i3 requires 0.29 kWh/mile, and the 2018 Nissan
LEAF requires 0.30 kWh/mile.) In Virginia, one kWh costs about $0.1243 (including generation,
transmission, and distribution). The cost per kWh depends on the time of year. However, $0.1243/kWh is a
good average estimate. Multiplying the number of kWh required to drive a mile by the cost of a kWh, we
arrive at a cost of 3.6¢/mile to drive the average new all-electric car.
0.29 ??ℎ
:confused:? ×
$0.1243
??ℎ = $0.036/:confused:? = :confused:? ?? :confused:?? :confused: :confused:? ?? :confused::confused::confused:??
How much does it cost to drive a mile on gasoline?
The average fuel efficiency for new vehicles sold in the United States 24.9 miles per gallon, according to the
2018 EPA Automotive Trends Report. Therefore, the average new gas-powered car requires 0.04 gallons of
gasoline to drive one mile (1 mile ÷ 24.9 miles/gallon = 0.04 gallons of gasoline). According to the U.S.
Energy Information Administration, the average retail gasoline price in Virginia in 2019 as of 7/19/2019 is
$2.50/gallon. Multiplying the number of gallons required to drive a mile by the cost of a gallon of gasoline
(0.04 gallons x $2.50/gallon), we arrive at a cost of 10.04¢/mile to drive the average new gas-powered car in
Virginia
 
We’re not quite ready to buy an EV yet, but I can see it as a second car now. And the Model Y is the most tempting production EV so far to us.

The past thread controversies mostly stemmed from the sub-topics of autonomous driving and many naive or disingenuous ‘zero emissions’ claims. If you can stay away from those (common here) hijacks, you can have a pleasant thread on EV’s now that EV’s are actually mainstream with the Model 3. Decent range EV’s weren’t as affordable until the Model 3. There are lots of appealing aspects to EV’s, and they’re only getting more so.
 
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I am watching this thread and following the EV movement generally and with interest. I'd love to make it work somehow, but in our current very rural situation, it doesn't make sense.
 
I am hoping that EVs will be a good option for us when we next look to buy a car in about 5 years. (We currently have a 3 year old Prius).

Even at current ranges we could make them work for us as most of our journeys are much shorter than where we lived in the USA. We visit Edinburgh several times a year as my wife's sister lives there and that is a 175 mile drive. We also visit her brother in Cheshire several times a year and he lives 125 miles away. Other friends and relatives we visit are all within a 100 mile radius of us.

Other journeys such as our planned trip to Cornwall in June would need charging stations as that is 445 miles one way, and I don't think I'm ready for that just yet.

We would also charge our EV batteries at home using solar or the very cheap overnight electricity.
 
CaptTom said:
First, what's the true effective range, assuming I'm running the air conditioning for the whole trip? What if the outside temperature is in the teens (F) and I'm running the heat?

And by "effective range" I mean real-world. Not driving 10 miles under the limit in the passing lane. (That's already a problem with Prius drivers. I don't want to see that catch on with full EV's!) Not pulling into the charging station at 0% SOC. At what SOC do you typically look to recharge?

Anyway, it's good to read first-hand positive experiences with EV's. My own suspicion is that there will be a huge shift once the realistic range and purchase price are close enough to IC engine vehicles. I hope it happens before I buy my next vehicle.
Click to expand...

I can't personally answer the effective range question yet, because we have moderate temps here and no speed limits > 65. Others have posted their results (for example, here) and you can find graphs such as this:

model_s100_range_temp_imperial_grande.png


Also, there's a screen you can view that shows your expected range vs. your own driving style over the last n miles:

range2.jpg


It's suggested that you don't go much below 10% SOC. Range is not an issue for us.

As for a huge shift toward EVs, I expect it to be monumental and soon. Many report that when they take their friends for a ride and let them drive, the friends are convinced.

Sometimes I think about this hypothetical: Let's say all people drive EVs like Teslas, and then gasoline cars are invented. People be like, "You mean I have to stop somewhere and put this dangerous liquid into my car? I can't just plug it in at home?"
 
I would be tempted to replace my Forester with a Tesla, preferably a model 3. Two problems: handling in the snow/cold weather and storage.

I need to be able to drive four people and ski gear for a week. It’s about 220 miles one way. It’s a tight fit in the Forester. We use a ski rack for boards/skis.

Anybody have any experience with a model 3 using the roof rack? How about range with a rack, fully loaded model 3 and cold weather?

Edit to add distance.
 
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There is good reason that EV’s are so popular in California.

1) Electricity is cheap (.10/KwH for me) and gas is more expensive that almost every other state in the US.

2) Weather is generally mild in most of California so cold weather does not weigh into people’s concerns about range.

3) Superchargers are everywhere. You will never be far from one although you will rarely use them other than on long distance trips.

4) California provides a rebate to incentivize EV purchases.

No doubt there some reason to be concerned about owning an EV in a cold weather climate. You just have to look at your typical driving distances and determine if it’s going to be a factor. Most Tesla owners prefer the long range battery models if they live in a cold weather climate. Over time battery ranges will continue to improve and this will become much less of a factor.
 
TromboneAl said:
As for a huge shift toward EVs, I expect it to be monumental and soon. Many report that when they take their friends for a ride and let them drive, the friends are convinced.

Sometimes I think about this hypothetical: Let's say all people drive EVs like Teslas, and then gasoline cars are invented. People be like, "You mean I have to stop somewhere and put this dangerous liquid into my car? I can't just plug it in at home?"
Click to expand...
:LOL: Probably all true. To me an EV is a no-brainer second car for many people today, even primary for some owners now or in the future.

I’ve read that if an ICE car was invented today, they’d never be permitted. Probably also true.
 
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tulak said:
I would be tempted to replace my Forester with a Tesla, preferably a model 3. Two problems: handling in the snow/cold weather and storage.

I need to be able to drive four people and ski gear for a week. It’s about 220 miles one way. It’s a tight fit in the Forester. We use a ski rack for boards/skis.

Anybody have any experience with a model 3 using the roof rack? How about range with a rack, fully loaded model 3 and cold weather?

Edit to add distance.
Click to expand...

This is relevant:

https://ww.electrek.co/2019/01/11/tesla-model-3-roof-rack-efficiency-test/#

The results are interesting. The roof rack itself (test #2) seems to have a negligible impact on the range compared to having nothing on the roof (test #3).

But the efficiency is more significantly affected when adding a ski box onto the roof rack (test #1):​

tZkpBpQ.png
 
What are you going to do when this happens at one of your planned charging stops?

One recent case happened in Hickory, North Carolina as a Tesla owner pulled up to a local Supercharging station to plug in. However, there were three modified pickup trucks blocking a number of the charging spots. Unsurprisingly, the trucks appear to be owned by young males who were yelling “F**k Tesla.”
Click to expand...

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/truck-owners-blocking-tesla-superchargers-across-america/

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...sla-superchargers-in-ice-ing-protests-2018-12

In other words, it is probably best to anticipate longer charging stops than ideally should be the case.
 
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I’m unlikely to buy an EV; probably will stick with hybrids, as it’s more suited to my use.

But I was looking, out of curiosity, at the cost of a used Leaf, when I noted the charging characteristics. At 110/120v, it takes 2.5 days to fully charge. Charging at 220/240v cuts that to 12 hour, doable overnight if not optimum. The DC Fast Charger takes about 30 min. There are some charging stations at the rec center where I go, so that would be an option, but I’d definitely have to adapt/install 220/240v capability in my garage to make it practical.
 
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Ready said:
But the people who do not own EVs have not taken the time to fully educate themselves on much of anything about them. It’s not meaningful to have a conversation about EVs with people who are generally negative about them yet know virtually nothing about them.
Click to expand...

That is SOooooo NOT TRUE! At least not me. I would love to own one but they do not fit my driving style for long distance travel. Plus we have beome a one car family since selling our second toy car and deciding we did not need a second car to gather dust in the Garage.

Unlike a lot of folks here, I like to drive from Dawn to dusk (or however long daylight lasts) on the first day of a long distance drive, E.G., from Florida to Toronto Canada. I do a 10 - 12 hour first day usually, stopping a short time for potty breaks, gas and food. That for me is about 700 - 800 miles. I am in Toronto by Noon the following day. Hampton Inns usually help with the overnight stay.

I am an Engineer and research everything to the max. The day an EV can run for 600m - 700m without charging, I am on it like a fly on S#%t. So please do not lump me into the naysayers camp, or those that just comment for comments sake.
 
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Our driving patterns have become Bi-Modal. We have significant periods of time where we drive round trips of less than 30 miles. Then we load up and drive 1500 miles in two days, or 550 miles in one day. Sometimes pulling a small trailer. When we are here in the desert SW, an electric vehicle would work quite well, except for the plans to pull a trailer w/ ORV out into the desert (not sure about towing capacity for a 2500# trailer).

Our pattern of usage is not a good fit for an EV at this time. If we were to take a blow-that-dough approach, I could see having a Tesla in the stable as a sports car for the around town usage. But I don't see it replacing my gas vehicles until we stop driving those long trips.
 
It does seem that having one of the cars be an EV would be sweet. I love the idea of not having to visit a gas station. My issue is that even though we have two cars, we really don’t. I have a car (truck) and DW has a car (suv). And, since I drive the truck, DW’s car is the one we use for long haul driving. So, while her’s is mostly a local driver and a good candidate to be the EV, it’s also the one that we’d need to have long range on. Also, as has been mentioned, I’m still at the point that I like to bust out some serious miles. When I drive to my dad’s, which is just under 700 miles, I don’t stop except for gas and food. I’ll do the trip in just under 11 hours. Some day I might take it easier, but not yet.
 
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