Red Wine Recommendation!

[Winemaker]

Some wineries will release aged wines (sometimes referred to as library wines), but most will not simply because of cashflow reasons.
Most aging is done in the bottle, hence the reason serious collectors create cellars or at least buy wine coolers/cabinets for storage.

Well made wines are aged 1-2 years in oak if a red wine, and occasionally another year in a bottle before release. Wines age better in a bigger volume, such as in a barrel, the bottle aging is primarily to compensate for bottle shock. Bottle shock is a period in which a newly bottled wine is a little funky, because it was just banged around a lot before it went into inert gas filled bottle and had a cork shoved down it's throat.

Wine Spectator November 15, 2019 edition is rating 2016 Cabernet Sauvignons.

Your $20 wine is not going to be aged for 2-3 years, or be oxygen excluded, but it, too, will experience bottle shock.

 

[CardsFan]

Well made wines are aged 1-2 years in oak if a red wine, and occasionally another year in a bottle before release. Wines age better in a bigger volume, such as in a barrel, the bottle aging is primarily to compensate for bottle shock. Bottle shock is a period in which a newly bottled wine is a little funky, because it was just banged around a lot before it went into inert gas filled bottle and had a cork shoved down it's throat.

Wine Spectator November 15, 2019 edition is rating 2016 Cabernet Sauvignons.

Your $20 wine is not going to be aged for 2-3 years, or be oxygen excluded, but it, too, will experience bottle shock.

Interesting. Do you recommend a waiting period after purchase to reduce the bottle shock? A few months? a year?

 

[audreyh1]

I'm certainly uninformed when it comes to wine and understand some wines get better with age but why would they send a +$100 bottle of wine to market that isn't apparently ready? Always thought proper aging was done at the winery and if it's on the shelf it's ready to enjoy.

Mostly true for US wines, but not for many European reds.

 

[grasshopper]

I am not an oenophile, just an uninformed wine guzzler, but I have the impression that it is not necessary nowadays to pay a lot of money for a good bottle. Why?

It's because wine overproduction all over the world. The art of vine growing is now well-known and no longer a secret mastered by only a few vintners in the old world. Europe is awash in wine. And European wine consumption is decreasing, although Americans are now picking up the slack. And Australia and South America as well as the US are now producing good wine.

I agree 100% with this, every daughter or son of a wine family goes to UC Davis or Bordeaux to study or vice versa. The world is very flat.

 

[COcheesehead]

Well made wines are aged 1-2 years in oak if a red wine, and occasionally another year in a bottle before release. Wines age better in a bigger volume, such as in a barrel, the bottle aging is primarily to compensate for bottle shock. Bottle shock is a period in which a newly bottled wine is a little funky, because it was just banged around a lot before it went into inert gas filled bottle and had a cork shoved down it's throat.

Wine Spectator November 15, 2019 edition is rating 2016 Cabernet Sauvignons.

Your $20 wine is not going to be aged for 2-3 years, or be oxygen excluded, but it, too, will experience bottle shock.

Well made red Grenache is aged in concrete.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

Rodney Strong Cab. and Merlot were on sale for $10.99 each this week at ABC Liquors in Florida, we purchased a case of each.

Love Rodney Strong Cabernet. I always keep a bottle or two as it's my mom's favorite too.

 

[Winemaker]

Interesting. Do you recommend a waiting period after purchase to reduce the bottle shock? A few months? a year?

Most of your better wines will not be released until that threat is removed. The cheaper wines, you may not even be able to tell the difference. 1-2 months is
generally good enough.

Grenache is an excellent wine, very fruity and with a touch of spice. It oxidizes very, very easy and is usually not aged in oak for that matter, and aged in concrete as you say. However, if in a blend with other reds, oak is welcome. Some Syrahs, blended with Grenache, are in oak for up to 3 years, but that is really pushing the limits. It's up to the winemaker, if he likes it and it sells, must be the thing to do!

 

[audreyh1]

So many Bordeaux wines at our local Costco. Left with 5 bottles including a 2016 Grand Vin from St-Julien appellation (left bank Bordeaux) for $24.99 plus another 4 of the French Malbec that was so good. All but two of the wines were $10.99.

 

[BeachOrCity]

Bought 1/2 case for a dinner party last night. No one complained, but I did not get any complements either.
My own view is the wine doesn’t really taste like a cab. Not bad just different. And I would rate as middle of the road. Then again it is certainly as good as any other 10 dollar bottle of wine.

Always appreciate the recommendation though!

 

[HFWR]

I always heard that as "Château de Château", which I took as a silly, made up name, just for yucks. Like "ACME Corp" in the Roadrunner.



-ERD50

Better than the “Château behind the Château”...

 

[Markola]

I am not an oenophile, just an uninformed wine guzzler, but I have the impression that it is not necessary nowadays to pay a lot of money for a good bottle. Why?

It's because wine overproduction all over the world...

Yes and no. Everything in your post accurately describes how the world is awash in wine, driving prices and profits down and making even “good bottles” more available. On the other hand, the world’s ideal vineyards are exceedingly rare for each Noble Grape, and mostly in Europe. I like some Pinot Noir from Oregon and bought some this weekend. However, there is, and there will only ever be, one Bourgogne.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes and no. Everything in your post accurately describes how the world is awash in wine, driving prices and profits down and making even “good bottles” more available. On the other hand, the world’s ideal vineyards are exceedingly rare for each Noble Grape, and mostly in Europe. I like some Pinot Noir from Oregon and bought some this weekend. However, there is, and there will only ever be, one Bourgogne.

I don't disagree with you. The analogy with wine can be found with cars.

You can buy a very good car for $50K. Heck, even lower-tiered cars at $25K are pretty good, compared to the old Pintos and Chevettes that were offered in the late 70s. Technology does help the masses.

However, the Ferraris and the Lambos still cost several 100ks. They are never going down in price. I don't want them, but can see how some people covet them.

Back on booze, I still pay a lot more money for XO Cognac, compared to lesser French or American brandy. I drink both, and have to admit that either my palate is getting dull or I don't care that much any more, probably both, but nowadays I am getting less and less picky.

 

[Chuckanut]

Too late, this thread is corked...

Oh Dear! Don't say that to the guy who runs a cork farm orchard. He will bite your head off. The problem, according to them is either improper bottling or the wine went bad and damaged the cork.

 

[NW-Bound]

I don't disagree with you. The analogy with wine can be found with cars.

You can buy a very good car for $50K. Heck, even lower-tiered cars at $25K are pretty good, compared to the old Pintos and Chevettes that were offered in the late 70s. Technology does help the masses.

However, the Ferraris and the Lambos still cost several 100ks. They are never going down in price. I don't want them, but can see how some people covet them.

Back on booze, I still pay a lot more money for XO Cognac, compared to lesser French or American brandy. I drink both, and have to admit that either my palate is getting dull or I don't care that much any more, probably both, but nowadays I am getting less and less picky.

Just a quick correction to my car analogy.

After checking the MSRP of the Pinto and the Chevette and adjusting for inflation, I see that these cars should be compared to the current $15k cars, not the $25k cars.

And I have not driven a Nissan Versa which can be had for $15k, but have to say that, from Web photos, this is a luxury and high-performance car compared to the Pinto. Ugh!

 

[Markola]

Just a quick correction to my car analogy.

After checking the MSRP of the Pinto and the Chevette and adjusting for inflation, these cars should be compared to the current $15k cars, not the $25k cars.

And I have not driven a Nissan Versa, but have to say that, from Web photos, this is a luxury and high-performance car compared to the Pinto. Ugh!

[emoji594][emoji594][emoji594] Yes, the world’s wines are arrayed in the form of a pyramid. One can enjoy finding relative gems for the money spent for accessible, quaffable ones that pair ideally with known food partners. Have an Australian Shiraz sometime with peppery barbecue and see if it doesn’t go BAM in your mouth, or brut champagne and French fries (I’m not kidding). But special occasion wines near the higher reaches of the pyramid are always going to be a different experience in a higher strata. To your analogy, driving a Pinto (Three Buck Chuck) versus a Ferrari. They both have wheels and windshields but, once you drive the Ferrari, you won’t be too excited about the Pinto anymore. It’s not snobbery, it’s that your palate matures. I can’t afford the tippy top of the pyramid but I’ve also learned to not waste my money or mouth on the dregs. I have taught myself to love finding gems in the $15-$30 range for our weekly drinking with meals, delighting my wife with what I find. However, sometimes, on occasion, when there is a sale, “Hello to my happy place, $65 Chateauneuf Du Pape!”


https://winefolly.com/review/all-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-chateauneuf-du-pape-wine-and-more/

 

[Winemaker]

I can remember back in 1982 when a fellow classmate was coming to visit my new "hometown". I bought several rib eyes, a grill, charcoal and a bottle of $20 1978 Burgundy.

What a disaster! The steaks were excellent, but I didn't know the Burgundy shouldn't have been in the fridge. It was drinking red wine vinegar, little did I know it is supposed to be served at about 65 degrees and decanted. I laugh about my "unknowledge" back then.

 

[HFWR]

I seem to have the opposite reaction to alcoholic beverages, in that they tend to diminish my appetite.

 

[NW-Bound]

... It’s not snobbery, it’s that your palate matures...

Sadly, my palate is way past its peak, and has been on the decline for quite a few years now.

But then, luckily for me, my point has been that I do not have to pay a lot to get something that is good enough to me.

... I can’t afford the tippy top of the pyramid but I’ve also learned to not waste my money or mouth on the dregs. I have taught myself to love finding gems in the $15-$30 range for our weekly drinking with meals, delighting my wife with what I find. However, sometimes, on occasion, when there is a sale, “Hello to my happy place, $65 Chateauneuf Du Pape!”

https://winefolly.com/review/all-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-chateauneuf-du-pape-wine-and-more/

But even here, there's a huge price range. Just a quick look on Total Wine, and I saw that this appellation spans a range from $16 to $600, with the median at $50.

 

[Markola]

$50 median price sounds about right for one of the world’s greatest blends. Trader Joe’s has one in the low $20s but I’ll pass. The above-median quality bottles I seek start in the $90ish range, but wine stores often have big sales, so that’s when I pounce. It’s a rare treat and indulgence for me. Other people get manicures, pedicures, massages or buy NFL tickets. It’s not a waste if they get enjoyment out of them.

 

[NW-Bound]

There's nothing wrong with paying more money for something that you truly enjoy. I would not have to justify to anybody.

Grenache is an excellent wine, very fruity and with a touch of spice. It oxidizes very, very easy and is usually not aged in oak for that matter, and aged in concrete as you say. However, if in a blend with other reds, oak is welcome. Some Syrahs, blended with Grenache, are in oak for up to 3 years, but that is really pushing the limits. It's up to the winemaker, if he likes it and it sells, must be the thing to do!

I just learned that Markola's beloved Chateau-du-Pape wine category is mostly Grenache, although other grape varieties are allowed, and the wine is often a blend.

I only recognize a few of the following grape varieties.

Red varieties allowed are Cinsault, Counoise, Grenache noir, Mourvèdre, Muscardin, Piquepoul noir, Syrah, Terret noir, and Vaccarèse (Brun Argenté). White and pink varieties are Bourboulenc, Clairette blanche, Clairette rose, Grenache blanc, Grenache gris, Picardan, Piquepoul blanc, Piquepoul gris, and Roussanne. (The varieties not specifically mentioned before 2009 are Clairette rose, Grenache gris and Piquepoul gris.)

Surprisingly, Grenache is the 2nd most produced grape in France (11.3%), after the #1 being Merlot (13.6%). Surprisingly, Pinot Noir is down at #10 (3.4%).

With wine from the Chateau-du-Pape region being so expensive (due to the unique terroir), a lot of Grenache has to be produced in other regions, and used in other more common bottles.

And Spain also grows a lot of Grenache (called Garnacha). Total Wine has some bottles of highly rated Garnacha for $10. I will try to remember to get for tasting.

 

[Markola]

Welcome to the next burrow in the Rabbit Hole, and a rewarding one it is

 

[audreyh1]

Memories of Chateau Neuf du Pape: We stood next to the ruins, tasting some ripe blue mourvèdre grapes on the vines growing there, before descending to an ancient wine cellar beneath the ruins for a wine tasting. Even got to try a Chateau-neuf-du-Pape white which was quite nice.

 

[Winemaker]

While I do not have all 13 varieties to make a CdP, I do make a Grenache, Syrah, Mouvedre, Cinsault blend. What I truly find amazing is how these 4 grape varieties, which aren't too bad by themselves in a single varietal bottle, when blended together, make a most incredible wine. Each provides a subtle attribute that when properly blended, can knock your socks off.

While the wines that Markola mentioned are from France, there are a group of wine makers in the US, known as the "Rhone Rangers" that make the same kind of blends. One of those vineyards, is Tablas Creek, and it makes same kind of scrumptious wines using the same grapes. Check them out!

 

[NW-Bound]

I dunno about blending several grape varieties. I doubt that I can tell the different nuances. My taste is more peasant than that.

 

[Winemaker]

In France, wines are made, sold, enjoyed and known by the family's vineyard and reputation. This makes "Chateau du Smith" make great wines to keep up with family traditions. In the US, the wine consumer is protected by wine laws that make a bottle of Merlot, contain 75% Merlot and 25% of whatever the the winemaker wants. It may ce some Cab to add structure, or Petit Verdot to add aroma and structure. But you may already be drinking a blend and not know it, unless the label says otherwise. No foul, because the ultimate goal is a great tasting wine. If the bottle has a name on it such as "Apathetic Purple", there is no variety in it greater than 75%.