Red Wine Recommendation!

[Winemaker]

I think the point some of us are making/questioning is - once you've done something like bourbon barrel aging, can you really compare that wine to a 'normal' $10 red wine, or is it a different beverage altogether?

I found this review (bold mine):

https://www.reversewinesnob.com/rob...ection-bourbon-barrel-aged-cabernet-sauvignon



That doesn't really sound like what I'm looking for in a Cab. To each their own.

-ERD50

Grapes give wine the flavor of that particular variety, and in the US, a wine is required to be 75% of that variety. That means it contains 25% of other varieties. All grapes contribute to the flavor of FRUIT in the wine, and is 100% affected by the AROMA of the wine. Everyone's sense of smell is different, therefore everybody's sense of taste is different. The 25% that MAY be added to a wine may be a grape variety that adds tannin or structure to a wine, or a grape variety that may provide aroma.

The notes of vanilla, coconut,toffee, caramel, coffee, toast, chocolate, leather,tar all come from the oak barrel and its reaction with the with the flavonoids/sugars in the wood. Barrels are toasted to various levels from light to dark, and their flavors range in order as I listed above. The wine that was suggested by the OP was aged a short time in a bourbon barrel, that was charred, giving it darker flavors. In order to compensate for that, and the miniscule amount of bourbon(which does have vanilla, caramel and toffee notes), the wine most like was also aged with a very light toast, giving it its strong vanilla aroma and notes.

The 4 grams of sugar/liter is extremely high for me, as my sweet wines don't have that much. This leads me to believe the that 1) the grapes were picked young and not fully ripened and fermentation stopped early (as to prevent the yeast from eating all the sugar, or 2) the grapes were picked very ripe with so much sugar that the yeast could eat it all and died of alcohol poisoning. California law prohibits the additions of sugar, or other sweeteners, but does allow the additions of sweet grape juice.

In all, wine is all up to the individual's taste, sense of smell, sense of value. There will be those who will taste this wine and love it, and those who don't. No problem either way, that's why they have spit buckets, and dumping stations at GOOD wine tastings.

 

[Midpack]

Grapes give wine the flavor of that particular variety, and in the US, a wine is required to be 75% of that variety. That means it contains 25% of other varieties. All grapes contribute to the flavor of FRUIT in the wine, and is 100% affected by the AROMA of the wine. Everyone's sense of smell is different, therefore everybody's sense of taste is different. The 25% that MAY be added to a wine may be a grape variety that adds tannin or structure to a wine, or a grape variety that may provide aroma.

The notes of vanilla, coconut,toffee, caramel, coffee, toast, chocolate, leather,tar all come from the oak barrel and its reaction with the with the flavonoids/sugars in the wood. Barrels are toasted to various levels from light to dark, and their flavors range in order as I listed above. The wine that was suggested by the OP was aged a short time in a bourbon barrel, that was charred, giving it darker flavors. In order to compensate for that, and the miniscule amount of bourbon(which does have vanilla, caramel and toffee notes), the wine most like was also aged with a very light toast, giving it its strong vanilla aroma and notes.

The 4 grams of sugar/liter is extremely high for me, as my sweet wines don't have that much. This leads me to believe the that 1) the grapes were picked young and not fully ripened and fermentation stopped early (as to prevent the yeast from eating all the sugar, or 2) the grapes were picked very ripe with so much sugar that the yeast could eat it all and died of alcohol poisoning. California law prohibits the additions of sugar, or other sweeteners, but does allow the additions of sweet grape juice.

In all, wine is all up to the individual's taste, sense of smell, sense of value. There will be those who will taste this wine and love it, and those who don't. No problem either way, that's why they have spit buckets, and dumping stations at GOOD wine tastings.

Thanks, informative without looking down your nose at casual wine drinkers.

 

[Winemaker]

As we are on the subject of good/bad cheap/expensive wines, I will relay this.

Chuck Wagner, of Caymus Vineyards, sells very good and high priced wines, and I have had the pleasure to meet and talk with him. We both buy grapes from the same vineyards, grown by the same farmers. When Mr. Wagner makes a vintage and allows it to age, whenever it's time to bring a particular vintage to bottle, he takes all his barrels and lines them up. He and his tasting crew, takes a sample of all 100+ barrels, taste and spit. They reject 10% every time, and those are sold off to a bidder/contracted buyer. I don't know who buys them, but I would most likely give my right eye to have one of them and replace it with one of mine ( unless I find a wine fault, which can happen). It could be Kirkland, or $2 Chuck, or Aldi's, but that's why I say to go with your own tastes. By my own taste/aroma buds, I wouldn't buy a dry red under $30, or a dry white under $10, unless I have visited the winery before and sampled some. Here in Grapetown, we have to buy our wines direct, or through the PA state Liquor stores.

 

[SeattleRocks]

I am partial to Washington State wine.

A very good wine (often found at Costco) is Delille D2 that I pick up 6-12 bottles a year of and drink when I want a good wine (nothing wrong with the >$15 bottles, but sometimes, the night just calls for a really good bottle)

https://www.delillecellars.com/product/16-D2?productListName=Homepage&position=1

And if you want something really special, recommend Figgins - a big bad Red that isn't over $100 a bottle but drinks like nectar...I may open up a bottle of that tonight!

Figgins Winery - Walla Walla Valley

Washington State has some outstanding wines!

 

[Markola]

More power to you.

I'm a cheapskate, and not a supertaster anyway. $25+ is more than we want to spend for an everyday wine. We usually stay under $20 so I guess we usually drink "Megapurple." Shame on us.

We've had several $200-$300 bottles on special occasions. They were outstanding, but not 10-15 times better. YMMV

Was not saying you must spend $25+ nor was I looking down my nose. Rather, I offered some simple hacks for those who want to spend less while also avoiding junk food. YMMV.

 

[gerntz]

Never have bought a $100 bottle of wine. If I've drunk some of some, I didn't buy. Paid $70 for a Brunello once and a handful of bottles in the $40-45 range. Mainly $8-22, and more so, $10-18. Probably average 3 bottles a week. 80-90% reds. Most Merlots are too thick for me. Outside that, I like wide variety.

 

[audreyh1]

I am partial to Washington State wine.

Washington State has some outstanding wines!

We are too. Discovering them early in our serious wine drinking lives, and having visited many wineries in the state, we tend to stick with WA when we buy a domestic wine. Also generally les expensive than CA wines.

But we do drink a lot more European wine, probably because Costco makes them easily available to us and we prefer the Spanish and Italian varietals.

 

[ERD50]

That's fine, by all means don't risk your $10. You probably wouldn't like this $365/bottle Opus One either since a short description is all you need to critique a wine:
Over the top descriptions are a hallmark of wine tasting at every price point. Very, very few people "get" all the flavors professional tasters [-]do[/-] claim.

That's a leap. The descriptors for that $365 bottle don't talk about extremes of any component, they use the terms "delicate... nuanced ...delightfully round structure ... Harmonious... with touches", the review I linked of your selection gave the impression of very over the top vanilla. Apples/horses (as expected at that price delta).

And (as Winemaker mentions below), the sugar content number is an objective measure (though I'm sure other factors can influence our perception of 'sweetness'). I prefer dry reds, so no, it's unlikely I'll try this, though I may out of curiosity. Just personal preference. Enjoy.

...

The 4 grams of sugar/liter is extremely high for me, as my sweet wines don't have that much. ....

In all, wine is all up to the individual's taste, sense of smell, sense of value. There will be those who will taste this wine and love it, and those who don't. No problem either way,...

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

I checked TotalWine and saw that this bottle is well-liked by most reviewers. The Chardonnay version is also well-liked. There's also a Robert Mondavi Private Selection series without the bourbon-barrel aging, for a few dollars less. Both the Cab and Chardonnay in the latter series are also favorably reviewed.

I will try to remember to get the above bottles to try the next time I go to TotalWine. By the way, 4 grams of sugar is one teaspoon.


PS. We visited Robert Mondavi and took a tour of their cellars in our honeymoon road trip. It was 40 years ago. We have come back twice since. I read that the winery was sold out to a conglomerate, and is no longer a family business.

 

[audreyh1]

Grapes give wine the flavor of that particular variety, and in the US, a wine is required to be 75% of that variety. That means it contains 25% of other varieties. All grapes contribute to the flavor of FRUIT in the wine, and is 100% affected by the AROMA of the wine. Everyone's sense of smell is different, therefore everybody's sense of taste is different. The 25% that MAY be added to a wine may be a grape variety that adds tannin or structure to a wine, or a grape variety that may provide aroma.

The notes of vanilla, coconut,toffee, caramel, coffee, toast, chocolate, leather,tar all come from the oak barrel and its reaction with the with the flavonoids/sugars in the wood. Barrels are toasted to various levels from light to dark, and their flavors range in order as I listed above. The wine that was suggested by the OP was aged a short time in a bourbon barrel, that was charred, giving it darker flavors. In order to compensate for that, and the miniscule amount of bourbon(which does have vanilla, caramel and toffee notes), the wine most like was also aged with a very light toast, giving it its strong vanilla aroma and notes.

The 4 grams of sugar/liter is extremely high for me, as my sweet wines don't have that much. This leads me to believe the that 1) the grapes were picked young and not fully ripened and fermentation stopped early (as to prevent the yeast from eating all the sugar, or 2) the grapes were picked very ripe with so much sugar that the yeast could eat it all and died of alcohol poisoning. California law prohibits the additions of sugar, or other sweeteners, but does allow the additions of sweet grape juice.

That was very informative, Winemaker. Thanks!

 

[grasshopper]

As we are on the subject of good/bad cheap/expensive wines, I will relay this.

Chuck Wagner, of Caymus Vineyards, sells very good and high priced wines, and I have had the pleasure to meet and talk with him. We both buy grapes from the same vineyards, grown by the same farmers. When Mr. Wagner makes a vintage and allows it to age, whenever it's time to bring a particular vintage to bottle, he takes all his barrels and lines them up. He and his tasting crew, takes a sample of all 100+ barrels, taste and spit. They reject 10% every time, and those are sold off to a bidder/contracted buyer. I don't know who buys them, but I would most likely give my right eye to have one of them and replace it with one of mine ( unless I find a wine fault, which can happen). It could be Kirkland, or $2 Chuck, or Aldi's, but that's why I say to go with your own tastes. By my own taste/aroma buds, I wouldn't buy a dry red under $30, or a dry white under $10, unless I have visited the winery before and sampled some. Here in Grapetown, we have to buy our wines direct, or through the PA state Liquor stores.

Back in the 80's Ms G and I were staying in Napa and we stopped at Caymus Vineyard having tasted the Special Selection cab on several occasions. We didn't want to drive about for another week with a nice bottle in our rental in September. Anyway Charlie RIP was in the tasting room and Ms G asked the counter clerk if Mr Wagner would sign her Caymus Napa. Well the clerk told Ms G that Mr Wagner only signs the Special Selection. Well Ms G with grace and charm went up to Charlie and asked him to sign her bottle. He was a true gentleman had a laugh and Ms G returned with his autograph. YMMV

 

[CardsFan]

More power to you.

I'm a cheapskate, and not a supertaster anyway. $25+ is more than we want to spend for an everyday wine. We usually stay under $20 so I guess we usually drink "Megapurple." Shame on us.

We've had several $200-$300 bottles on special occasions. They were outstanding, but not 10-15 times better. YMMV

+1

My check list;

1. Is the price reasonable (under $20/bottle)?
2. Do I like the taste?
3. Did I have a headache the next day?

If 1 and 2 are yes, and 3 is a no, I'll buy it again.

I have tasted expensive wines that I did not like. I have tasted inexpensive wines that I did like (including a few box-o-wines).

 

[Red Badger]

I like dry red wines mostly from WA, OR, South America, and France.

I do not like wine snobs.

I think (just me -not you) that expensive wines are for impressing others. Spending more than $30/bottle is ludicrous. That's just me. YMMV.

 

[harley]

Personally I'd rather eat grapes and drink bourbon.

 

[ERD50]

...
I will try to remember to get the above bottles to try the next time I go to TotalWine. By the way, 4 grams of sugar is one teaspoon. ...

That measure was per Liter, so 3 grams (3/4 tsp) per 750 mL bottle.

So next time I'm enjoying a dry red, I'll pour out 100 mL, and add 0.3 grams sugar, assuming a dry red is ~ 1 g/L, so add 3 to get to 4 (or 99.7 grams wine + 0.3 grams sugar to be precise).

Can I measure 0.3 grams? My gram scale has 0.1 g resolution. I cut a piece of paper ~ 4x6 and it was 1 gram. I cut it in thirds and read 0.3, 0.7, and 1.0 as I added them back. So pretty good. Or measure out 1.2 g and divide in half twice, the way I see those drug dealers do on TV?

It would be interesting if I can taste the difference.

-ERD50

 

[Aerides]

A few years ago while still working, boss took a few of us out for dinner. The two self-professes wine-connoisseurs in the group were in charge of deciding the wine, of course. Watching them debate was fun, but no doubt drew some looks...

Mid debate between these two, one of them, in a moment of wonderful self-awareness, said, "I know, there's no way I can do this without sounding like a d&ck, and I'm sorry I know, i sound like a d&ck, so, you don't have to like what I pick, and please please just order what you like, and ignore me."

Can we try that attitude in this thread?

 

[Midpack]

A few years ago while still working, boss took a few of us out for dinner. The two self-professes wine-connoisseurs in the group were in charge of deciding the wine, of course. Watching them debate was fun, but no doubt drew some looks...

Mid debate between these two, one of them, in a moment of wonderful self-awareness, said, "I know, there's no way I can do this without sounding like a d&ck, and I'm sorry I know, i sound like a d&ck, so, you don't have to like what I pick, and please please just order what you like, and ignore me."

Can we try that attitude in this thread?

Too late, this thread is corked...

 

[aja8888]

Great thread, Midpack! After 10 years off the sauce, I may start drinking wine again! LOL

 

[REWahoo]

43 posts and not one mention of Mad Dog 20/20. Are you folks sure you know your wines?

 

[aja8888]

43 posts and not one mention of Mad Dog 20/20. Are you folks sure you know your wines?

Or Night Train Express....

 

[audreyh1]

After our recent trip to southwestern France we’ve been picking up some Bordeaux and [-]Médoc[/-] Cahors Malbec wines at Costco. Boy, those French reds sure are dry - especially the Bordeaux!

Miss-typed above. It’s the Malbec from Cahors France that we found at Costco after having the pleasure of tasting Malbec at the original source. We really liked the French version. I haven’t been a big fan new world Malbecs.

Medoc is one of the several Bordeaux appellations. A great wine subregion - and our Costco currently has a couple of those too.

 

[Dalmore]

The very best wine on the market today, is what tastes good to you for a price you are willing to pay. If you can get it for less than that, you got a bargain on the deal!

 

[MooreBonds]

Aged in Bourbon Barrels?

I don't doubt it could be a very enjoyable drink. But that sounds like it really isn't a wine anymore, but something else. Or is the bourbon very subtle?

I may give it a try, sounds interesting. Last year, I brewed a doppel-bock with our club, it turned out amazing, and the plan was to age it in a bourbon barrel. So now it's an amazing bourbon-barrel aged doppel-bock, but most of us felt it was better as a straight doppel-bock.

-ERD50

A little late to the thread, but just my perspective: the aging in Bourbon Barrels doesn't give it an exact "bourbon flavor". And as with any other wine (and beer), tasting notes are just that - what your nose senses. For one person to say "it's the vanilla coke of wine" is more than an exaggeration. Sure, you might get a hint of vanilla, but realize that you can only get so much flavor imparted from an oak barrel into liquid by storing it in it (it's not like they are pouring concentrate into it!).

As far as the sweetness/alcohol goes, you might get a tiny bit of it from the barrels, but again, not that much. To say the bourbon barrel aging "completely changes it to a beverage" is not correct, as it only adds a slight nuance to the wine (just as any other barrel will slightly enhance it).

I personally find bourbon barrel aged wines (AND beer!) to be very enjoyable, as it imparts a completely different flavor to the wine. I first encountered the bourbon barrel aging when a top-rated local alcohol store did a side project with a local micro-brewery about 9 years ago. The relatively small beer allocation sold out in minutes. Each successive vintage likewise sold out continuously. I managed to get one allocation in the second project, and found it to be very enjoyable. Same with the few bourbon barrel-aged red wines I've sampled (19 Crimes is another good one I've had, along with 1000 Stories).

But as with all wines, I always do my best to try before I buy. Check your local liquor stores for free sampling hours. And hit up those wine parties (or host your own! to sample a huge variety.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I use "Ian's" 13% + Rule in selecting wines to try that are on sale and I am not familiar with.

Rule:

"If a wine is a reasonable price and the Alcohol rating is over 13% or higher, it is worth a try."

Then if you like it, go back and but a case or 2. This rule was made by me when I knew nothing about wine, I still know very little, so the rule still applies… to me. It is only really good for Red USA, Chilean and a few other wines. White wines and French and Italian wines can be in the 11% - 12.5% range and still be very good. So the rule does not apply to them. Being as I only drink Red, it works.

The theory being is; if one walks around a liquor, or other purveyors of wine stores, one will notice for the most part that the Lower shelf wines are cheaper, lower in alcohol, and price than the top shelf wines. (Hence the saying "Top Shelf" for Top Quality).

When I was learning about wine, that is what I did, I walked around the stores and took notes. That was over 35 years ago and I still live by that rule with respect to unfamiliar wine purchases. Yes, some wines that comply are not good at all, but for the most part, I have been more often pleasantly surprised than disappointed. One can always cook with the not so good ones, so nothing goes to waste.

 

[Winemaker]

The very best wine on the market today, is what tastes good to you for a price you are willing to pay. If you can get it for less than that, you got a bargain on the deal!

+10